Dev Workshop: Riven Disposition Changes

[ArgonBoi]

Who would want such a change?

[-Kittens-]

13 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

But, you know, kohm is safe apparently. Meanwhile amprex will probably end up being a 1/5.

I've already made my feelings on sparing the detron and kohm pretty clear and playing favorites is never a sum positive. Ever.

[SpentCasings]

38 minutes ago, -Kittens- said:

And you just made my point for me. My riven was is god tier, cursed recoil and 2 off the max of CC and 4.7 off of max achievable CD.

Red-redhead crits all day. Now, not so much. However on sub 150 it still works p alright, as long as it's not elem-enhance sorties.
You know what else still clears entire rooms? My AP, cause I specifically rolled for +CC +SC, and that 100% viral proc just halves all the things all the time, and scales infinitely as 100% viral does.

The simple fact deliberately ignored by many in this thread is the arca line was broken from day one. Not OP, not strong, straight up broken.

The AP did headshots at no falloff against any number of opponents.

The AS does infinite Ding!s and can do crits @ 100% status or near it with means most forms of enemy protection just get obliterated with one or two good shots and it has a great CD mod to boot for those sweet ding-strings.

The AT does 100% status and gets to use all three prime damage mods + CO for hee haw batsh!+ scaling and until the new melee hits, can still do hybrid crits thanks to combo tastic stances.

All of that ignoring how ludicrously cheap they were to build to anyone but a very new player, instant endgame ready content.

I hear

But what I see is a weapon that got justifiably nerfed four times and still clears anything a sortie can throw at it without a riven and only four forma. Meanwhile legit complaints about the viper and panthera/miter get drowned under

K.

OOOF. Yeah that does suck then. I thought you were talking about some theoretical "what if" Riven. I thought most of the amprex crit died when they rebalanced it. Why I assumed most didnt have red crits anymore. 

[Pyuma_Chan]

Nice job DE,you guys screwed up some of my rivens,but don't worry as long as you do not touch my scoliac riven it will be fine...

[Darknestime]

17 hours ago, JawNuts said:

 

[(PSN)nating51]

Thanks DE. This screwed some of my rivens too, but tbh this kind of updates need to be more frequent to me. *maybe* this will fix the whole riven market madnes, even if for just a bit.

[K-Sha]

18 minutes ago, Darknestime said:

 

Make every weapon OP when used with a riven and shoot the already stupid riven prices even higher, yeah great idea you genius.

EDIT:Oof sorry directed at who you quoted that meme from

[ABlackGuy]

Just out of curiosity, anyone wanna point out which of their weapons where absolutely crippled by the changes to their rivens?

[(XBOX)TJM99]

Are we ever gonna get more slots?

Feels weird having 92

[Jax_Cavalera]

I'd love to see the Karak / Karak Wraith get a boost in disposition, It's one of the closest things we have to a standard Assault Rifle but even with a riven like the one I have:
+272.4% DMG
+155.4 Status
-35.5% Fire Rate

It punches in quite low on DPS vs other more popular weapons like the Soma, Soma Prime and Tiberon to name a few, this is largely due to the lower critical chance and multiplier on both weapons and the lower status chance on the standard Karak.

Karak / Wraith Base
Crit Chance: 9% / 13%
Crit Multi: 1.5x / 2x
Status: 15% / 25%

Soma / Soma Prime / Tiberon / Tiberon Prime
Crit Chance: 30% / 30% / 26% / 28%
Crit Multi: 3x / 3x / 2.4x / 3x
Status: 7% / 10% / 16% / 20%

Given the relative magazine size on these weapons and fire rate, I believe that the Karak / Karak Wraith would benefit from that slight boost in disposition to encourage more players using it vs the other assault rifles out there.

[ShurikGesu]

Thank you so much for leaving our status shotguns intact. ❤️

 

[ReshyShira]

16 minutes ago, Jax_Cavalera said:

I'd love to see the Karak / Karak Wraith get a boost in disposition, It's one of the closest things we have to a standard Assault Rifle but even with a riven like the one I have:
+272.4% DMG
+155.4 Status
-35.5% Fire Rate

It punches in quite low on DPS vs other more popular weapons like the Soma, Soma Prime and Tiberon to name a few, this is largely due to the lower critical chance and multiplier on both weapons and the lower status chance on the standard Karak.

Karak / Wraith Base
Crit Chance: 9% / 13%
Crit Multi: 1.5x / 2x
Status: 15% / 25%

Soma / Soma Prime / Tiberon / Tiberon Prime
Crit Chance: 30% / 30% / 26% / 28%
Crit Multi: 3x / 3x / 2.4x / 3x
Status: 7% / 10% / 16% / 20%

Given the relative magazine size on these weapons and fire rate, I believe that the Karak / Karak Wraith would benefit from that slight boost in disposition to encourage more players using it vs the other assault rifles out there.

That's just the problem:  DE isn't interested in making more weapons viable with a riven, they're just interested in nerfing the rivens that people actually like.

[FrostDragoon]

25 minutes ago, Jax_Cavalera said:

I'd love to see the Karak / Karak Wraith get a boost in disposition, It's one of the closest things we have to a standard Assault Rifle but even with a riven like the one I have:
+272.4% DMG
+155.4 Status
-35.5% Fire Rate

It punches in quite low on DPS vs other more popular weapons like the Soma, Soma Prime and Tiberon to name a few, this is largely due to the lower critical chance and multiplier on both weapons and the lower status chance on the standard Karak.

Karak / Wraith Base
Crit Chance: 9% / 13%
Crit Multi: 1.5x / 2x
Status: 15% / 25%

Soma / Soma Prime / Tiberon / Tiberon Prime
Crit Chance: 30% / 30% / 26% / 28%
Crit Multi: 3x / 3x / 2.4x / 3x
Status: 7% / 10% / 16% / 20%

Given the relative magazine size on these weapons and fire rate, I believe that the Karak / Karak Wraith would benefit from that slight boost in disposition to encourage more players using it vs the other assault rifles out there.

Honestly, I think this weapon just needs a flat out buff along its base stats. After that we can talk about rivens, but even a Disp 5 riven is unlikely to salvage it in its current state.

[Azrael_V]

Ok  I'm failing to see the logic behind some of these changes. With Rubico Prime fast becoming the most popular used sniper why would you nerf the Vectis Disposition. So lets see...players start using other weapons driving the Vectis popularity down and DE buffing it back in future? Kinda pointless in all honesty which is what this whole popularity based system is. How long can DE keep up with such an insane balancing act with the sheer amount of weapons we already have and what will be released in future. Maybe take a look at the unpopular weapons individually and see why they are underused: bad mechanics maybe?outdated stats maybe? a bit of both maybe? 

DE also can't seem to leave well enough alone when it comes to the Arca Plasmor. Probably one of the best weapons in the game but its being butchered with every major update. After reverting the weapon back to it's pre-Chimera state you had to go nerf its disposition as well. Players are using the weapon DE because you guys actually did an excellent job on it. Maybe bring the other weapons up to speed, leave the good ones as they are and/or create something even better.

Cheers

[ReshyShira]

7 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

Honestly, I think this weapon just needs a flat out buff along its base stats. After that we can talk about rivens, but even a Disp 5 riven is unlikely to salvage it in its current state.

A lot of the weapons need to be buffed, but instead DE just tweaks riven stats and makes everyone who invested into them feel buyer's remorse.

[FrostDragoon]

1 minute ago, Azrael_V said:

Ok  I'm failing to see the logic behind some of these changes. With Rubico Prime fast becoming the most popular used sniper why would you nerf the Vectis Disposition. So lets see...players start using other weapons driving the Vectis popularity down and DE buffing it back in future? Kinda pointless in all honesty which is what this whole popularity based system is. How long can DE keep up with such an insane balancing act with the sheer amount of weapons we already have and what will be released in future. Maybe take a look at the unpopular weapons individually and see why they are underused: bad mechanics maybe?outdated stats maybe? a bit of both maybe? 

DE also can't seem to leave well enough alone when it comes to the Arca Plasmor. Probably one of the best weapons in the game but its being butchered with every major update. After reverting the weapon back to it's pre-Chimera state you had to go nerf its disposition as well. Players are using the weapon DE because you guys actually did an excellent job on it. Maybe bring the other weapons up to speed, leave the good ones as they are and/or create something even better.

Cheers

This is why I said earlier that I think the "popular = strong" notion is flawed logic. This is the argument that people should be pushing against, but instead there are lots of people who buy into the fallacy and defend it.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

36 minutes ago, ReshyShira said:

A lot of the weapons need to be buffed, but instead DE just tweaks riven stats and makes everyone who invested into them feel buyer's remorse.

Oh ho ho! But anyone who bought a riven should have known better! That's what they get!/sarc

[tucker_d_dawg]

Rivens will never balance the game. You can't balance a weapon's use in the game by introducing something that has random stats applied to it and even worse has a random (and exceptionally low) chance of acquisition.  Giving the MK-1 Braton a 10 dot dispostion (if it were possible) would not suddenly make the mk1 the most used weapon in the game. Very few people would have the riven, and of those even less would have good rolls on it.

Rivens are solely a way to generate plat sales:

• encourage the use of formas and therefore forma sales due to their high mod cost
• encourage the purchase of boosters due to the high roll cost and slow acquisition rate of kuva
• encourage the purchase of platinum by people with more money than sense so they can buy their way to power.
• encourage the purchase of weapon slots because now you have to have xyx weapon EITHER because its the new meta and you sold it to make room, OR because you randomly got a riven and you think you want to test it.
• encourage the purchase of more riven slots

Riven rebalancing changes none of the above - very few players will have "god rivens" for meta weapons.  Now people that actually USE rivens because they like to play with them just have to get back to the grind to re-build weapons they previously disposed, forma the crap out of them, farm kuva endlessly etc.

 

If "balance" was DE's intent, that can only be achieved by reworking the actual weapon stats so EVERYONE has access to them, and EVERYONE would be encouraged to play them, not just the lucky few who get that one in 400 riven for that weapon and then by chance get a decent roll.  To call this a rebalance for the sake of balance in the game is farcical at best.

 

[Keijii]

The removal of sentinel rivens was a mistake. So much money / plat circulated within the 24 hrs already.  Damage is done. Now you would want to add it back in. Hmmm. Lackluster is not a means to remove. MoA pets made it less lack luster a companion that uses Sent weapons. Finally my Burst laser riven will be put more to use, ill just throw it onto my cute lil moa who is a combination of both Companion and Sentinel. Ya feel me? 

[ValloVN]

16 hours ago, Truli said:

So according to your logic, if i buy a Ferrari with 100 000 euros, then the company from Ferrari take my motor and changed it with a seat one, that is fair right? People are doing what they feel like, you seem angry of people who make plat or good rivens.....leave people have their fun. If they don't many will leave the game. there is no point of staying in a game where it doesn't recognise your progress or your effort you put in. 

Hmm no, rivens disposition didn't change from 5->1  u are only running ferrari on normal fuel instead of performance fuel that's all, slight horsepower reduce. Your comparison is way off. 

All the riven prices are just pure greedy made up prices. Who did say that this or that riven is worth that much or effort u put into it. And why should riven with same stats that has 0-5 rolls be same price as riven that has 50+ rolls where person really has put effort in. It would have been probably best if they weren't tradeable in first place and higher chance to get riven on sortie. And i have seen people get banned for selling stuff with high price and that other person who bought get banned for getting plat illegal ways or something which will be removed from that person account who sold item. So if he has negative plat amount he would have to pay real money and add plat to unlock his account. So imagine having to pay 400 euro example if it was 10k plat trade. Another person stops playing warframe. Prices of for items over 1000p is not normal, hope u understand it. DE own deluxe skins and bundles cost less than that. I have almost 2800 hours played in warframe so i am aware of what is progress and effort and what is not. Most are just trying to play god with their "Godly" rivens. There is no effort in buying a riven for 200p and selling for 5000 with 5 rolls. But i guess opinions varie  😄 

[Schoolie440]

My favorite weapon just got 40% stat reductions on both riven stats.

I have always appreciated the way DE has handled situations like these in the past, and I have never felt cheated in any way. This has broken that trust somewhat.

These mods are very important for many people's builds, and this very significant reduction with no warning reminds me that the developer can just take what they want when they want. Nothing I earn in game is truly permanent, and it can be removed or changed without my input. The fact that DE has always avoided exercising that capability is something I have touted to many people as a virtue, so this comes as a shock to me.

Just recently, PUBG had extended server downtime twice in the same night and I waited 4 hours to get to play. They repaid players with 20,000 BP and a cosmetic for the trouble. They made another mistake and gave these gifts multiple times to some players, so I ended up with a surplus of BP. I went ahead and bought some cheap crates and got some garbage cosmetics, but hey, it was fun. I come back the next day and have negative 40,000 BP because they took them back, so I won't be able to buy anything for months until I climb back to positive. This was no surprise to me, as I know PUBGcorp/Bluehole couldn't care less what I think, and honestly I know I shouldn't have spent them in the first place.

After this, I literally said out loud to a friend of mine how that was so perfectly PUBG, and then said "that's why I love Warframe, DE would never pull that kind of crap after they made a mistake, they would just let you keep it." I am sure many of you remember the mistake that DE made with the Ash Prime Twitch drop last year, and they decided to just give it to everyone, because they are DE. 

So no, I am not raging, and  I am not quitting the game after playing since 2014. DE has done some silly things before (rivens themselves, nitain...) but this is the first time I have actually felt jilted. 

Another disclaimer is that the only reason I am upset or surprised at all by this is because of the high standard DE has always maintained and my own glowing opinion of them. 

Another note, I am not a whale that buys whatever they want. This riven was the best riven I have and it was for my favorite weapon. It is kind of special to me, and I will never get another one like it because I wouldn't be able to afford it, and now it is significantly worse than it was before. Kind of sad.

I Love Warframe, I Love DE, keep doing what you guys are doing. 

TL;DR: I love DE and their respect for their player base, but this sudden nerf to an important mod in my inventory seems out of character. 

[Anbu9000]

Tenno its Easy to spot the filthy casual's. Its a shame the tax man doesnt come after them for brain shelving.  Hard day for the glinty when the repo man repo'd stats from the hard working solaris to give to the creedy corpus.

[KoboldPrime]

Never ending gradual riven nerfs. You do realize that a single riven sucks dozens of hours of our life time(some even hundreds), don't you?

Thanks for not nerfing Kohm tbh. I would've literally quit the game, and I'm playing for 5 years now.

[bibmobello]

Seriously...WTF use the AKbronco(prime) in this game? I have never seen anyone with an akbronco(prime) i had a (crappy)riven and even with a god one it will never be a top weapon because the trick is clear: no crits or no slash and a weapon is useless... Now i can only transmute it in endo...

1)The disposition based on popularity it's totally dumb, like someone just said it should be based on the power of fire of a weapon or status or usability.

2) If you prefer to continue with this idea then the list of the most used weapons should be public.

[(XBOX)o0 Sekishi 0o]

nice changes, but i will miss my one shot- kill lanka whit out chroma