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[DE]Connor

Dev Workshop: Riven Disposition Changes

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22 minutes ago, Anbu9000 said:

They did hundreds of players dirty your just ignorant to the fact. Go spend a couple hundred hours in kuva missions to get kuva to cycle and cycle weapons or use your real world cash to buy plat. Buy boosters and trade with other players then see your weapon dropped because someone thinks its broken. Then when that weapon is dropped for a rework to make other weapons more balance. Go look at the other rivens in your inventory still not worth anything to use because the damage they put out is still weak. If was nothing to fuss over  should of never dropped dispositions and just raised all the other weapons stats or did away with disposition period and just add base stats to a percentage. The reason this ticks me off isnt so much the drop in disposition its the principal. if you have a game where you invest time energy and money to get things then they drop them in power after that grind. That makes the grind pointless and the playing futile. The understanding of that is what separates casuals who dont invest in a game from daily players who do. I actually love this game and id hate to see it fall into that category. I actually believe DE will read all these posts and listen. Why i play this game and  support it.

You're completely ignoring what the changes are, you're just angry that they were changed at all. The changes are all pretty minimal. I invest in this game plenty including into rivens and nobody lost their investments they still have rivens, the rivens are still good. You should pay attention to how much the stats are dropped, because it's not much (and imo that's what's wrong because they aren't balancing their own system the way they said they would. I did do kuva grinding and all that nonsense and after some time doing it and rerolling rivens I decided it isn't worth the hassle, because I like variety and I'm not gonna invest hours into making one weapon godlike broken just so I can barely use it. If you don't like the principal of items losing value over time then I'm sorry to say, that's how any market works. Every normal item in a market has its value deteriorate eventually, this is one of the ways it happens for rivens.

 

EDIT:Think about it this way, when you're grinding kuva and rerolling, rerolling, rerolling those rivens, you are getting different effects on that riven. Your riven is still there, the weapon is still there, and the roll on the riven is still there. You didn't lose anything that you worked for, you don't work for your crit damage roll specifically being +150%, you worked for the roll itself.

Edited by K-Sha
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IMO, add Sentinel Weapon Rivens to Simaris' tributes, it would only be logical to be there with all the augments!

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34 minutes ago, K-Sha said:

You're completely ignoring what the changes are, you're just angry that they were changed at all. The changes are all pretty minimal. I invest in this game plenty including into rivens and nobody lost their investments they still have rivens, the rivens are still good. You should pay attention to how much the stats are dropped, because it's not much (and imo that's what's wrong because they aren't balancing their own system the way they said they would. I did do kuva grinding and all that nonsense and after some time doing it and rerolling rivens I decided it isn't worth the hassle, because I like variety and I'm not gonna invest hours into making one weapon godlike broken just so I can barely use it. If you don't like the principal of items losing value over time then I'm sorry to say, that's how any market works. Every normal item in a market has its value deteriorate eventually, this is one of the ways it happens for rivens.

 

EDIT:Think about it this way, when you're grinding kuva and rerolling, rerolling, rerolling those rivens, you are getting different effects on that riven. Your riven is still there, the weapon is still there, and the roll on the riven is still there. You didn't lose anything that you worked for, you don't work for your crit damage roll specifically being +150%, you worked for the roll itself.

Dude i got no reply for you after this. Im not going to waste anymore time explaining it to you. Playing the game and getting the resources to reroll does change because the cost increases. That makes the farm increase that makes the time to get the resources increase. Good for you you gave up because you didnt think it was worth it. Some of us went the extra mile. We got nerfed for it. You obviously dont care cause your not effected. DE should care because how people play this game and see the grind determines if they will play the game at all or buy plat.  Said it your self.  "(and imo that's what's wrong because they aren't balancing their own system the way they said they would" , End point unnerf our rivens.

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1 hour ago, FrostDragoon said:

Even at 100k it'd be fine. It's a luxury item to begin with.

200% MS and 200% RoF on Dethrifle is going through a sortie without firing your own weapon once.

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Hahaha Im kind of pissed. Not gonna lie, even though they aren’t really big changes... It pisses me off because i spent so much platinum on certain rivens to get everything just right the way i wanted the weapons to be, Then you nerfed all my rivens. Honestly you should’ve just nerved the rivens that were being sold like someone else said, Nerf them a little everytime they’re traded so our own builds and original rivens aren’t harmed.

 

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48 minutes ago, Nareg300062 said:

Nice, ruining one of the best parts of the game, NUMBERS. People literally pay thousands of plat, just to hit higher numbers with their weapons and brag about it. It's fun and gives a sense of progression. What do these nerfs have to to with the integrity of the game? They are completely uneccessary. Instead of sticking to providing content, you are doing these useless things. Focus more time into the Melee rework, instead of ruining people's rivens. I payed a good amount of plat for my Pyrana riven, now its just a mediocre riven, not worth half the price I payed for. Can you compensate me for that DE? 

AGREED same thing with my pyrana riven. Spent thousands of plat to make sure it was OP. Now its not even that decent. Compensate 

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On 2018-11-08 at 6:24 PM, [DE]Connor said:

EDIT 2: Thanks to everyone who left their constructive feedback. In response to your suggestions, I wanted to share two plans we have going forward:

1. We are looking into ways for players to intentionally acquire Rivens for their robotic companions' weapons. They will remain outside the Riven generation pool, as previously stated.
2. We will be revisiting Riven dispositions periodically, using the same rules laid out above, to further uphold our stated intentions.

RIP people already paying 500pl+ for sentinel weapon rivens. lol

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1 hour ago, Anbu9000 said:

Dude i got no reply for you after this. Im not going to waste anymore time explaining it to you. Playing the game and getting the resources to reroll does change because the cost increases. That makes the farm increase that makes the time to get the resources increase. Good for you you gave up because you didnt think it was worth it. Some of us went the extra mile. We got nerfed for it. You obviously dont care cause your not effected. DE should care because how people play this game and see the grind determines if they will play the game at all or buy plat.  Said it your self.  "(and imo that's what's wrong because they aren't balancing their own system the way they said they would" , End point unnerf our rivens.

They basically said they would nerf it and they aren't nerfing it as hard as they implied. I am affected actually, I still have good rolls on rivens for good weapons like Opticor, Baza, Zarr, Latron, Quanta, Aklato(minus this one lol), Corinth, Zenith, etc. and I don't care. I still have my rolls so why should I be mad?

I grind kuva for rivens yes but after maybe 5 or so rolls I quit, I don't feel like doing it for hours and hours. I noticed a chance in the stats of my rivens obviously ones that got nerfed for sure, and it's small changes that I don't really care for, some are flat out unnoticeable. That's because at the beginning of this post this disclaimer was put here:"No Disposition has changed by more than one “pip” in the Arsenal. (For those knowledgeable about how Rivens work in code, no Disposition will change by more than +/-0.2)" That is Connor deliberately stating that no riven has moved by more than 1 disposition. Which means minimal nerfs, minimal buffs. This is a very mountainous molehill isn't it?

Edited by K-Sha
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1 hour ago, K-Sha said:

...I like variety and I'm not gonna invest hours into making one weapon godlike broken just so I can barely use it. If you don't like the principal of items losing value over time then I'm sorry to say, that's how any market works. Every normal item in a market has its value deteriorate eventually, this is one of the ways it happens for rivens.

EDIT:Think about it this way, when you're grinding kuva and rerolling, rerolling, rerolling those rivens, you are getting different effects on that riven. Your riven is still there, the weapon is still there, and the roll on the riven is still there. You didn't lose anything that you worked for, you don't work for your crit damage roll specifically being +150%, you worked for the roll itself.

Not every item in a market works that way at all. Ever heard of a collector’s item? People invest in things like antiques because they will appreciate in value over time. Useful and powerful rivens would be able to keep their value pretty well over time if DE didn’t implement these unnecessary nerfs.

I’m not sure if you know, but riven rolls also have ranges the stats can be. Your Critaata might be stronger than mine if it has the max stats in the range for that roll. That’s one of the reasons why people want negatives on their rivens because it allows the good stats to go higher. So no, you didn’t just work for the roll itself regardless of how high or low the stats are.

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To the guy that said dont spend plat on rivens, what i choose to spend my plat on is my business. Futher more your comment made no sense. And if you had read my post youd have seen that i said i spent a lot of time rolling rivs to make them what they were, just to have DE take it away. Which is robbery, to me and anyone else that took the time to do so. And if you are not mad about this update. Then its probably 1you dont do tricaps, which ive done over 650+. Two you havnt took the time i have to farm kuva to turn mediocre rivs into god teirs, like i have. And 3 your comment about what i spend my plat on tells me you dont have alot of knowledge about the free market or its propuse. This update is a big disappointment to a lot of endgamers which have invested the time like i have. Just to have DE take it away, because a weapon wasnt being used. It was a bad move and not thought out very well at all. Period.

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On 2018-11-08 at 10:24 PM, [DE]Connor said:

1. We are looking into ways for players to intentionally acquire Rivens for their robotic companions' weapons. They will remain outside the Riven generation pool, as previously stated.

Thank you DE, you didn't disappoint us. 

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3 hours ago, bibmobello said:

The solution is simply: don't buy rivens! You can exchange it but in this game people is obsessed with platinum. It's not a drama if you deals less damage, i remember a time when you needed skills to beat a game...

And 650 plus tricaps, takes a lot of skill and time....

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hace 3 horas, K-Sha dijo:

Yes because I know these are player determined prices but we still generally operate on a content to value scale when thinking of prices for content in games. Rivens are a tiny tiny amount of content and RNG bandaids that make bad weapons good and good weapons broken. They are not worth any more than say, 400 platinum at best. The riven prices we're seeing are upwards of, in USD, hundreds and thousands of dollars if you do conversions and of course anywhere else simply obscene amounts of money. That is FAR from okay. The prices have been inflating ever since rivens were first added and it just goes up and up and up.

Greedy ass Riven traders wouldn't be willing to lower prices either so a hard limit is easily the best option, but by now it's evident DE wants to make money off of rivens more than anything.

They are worth thousands of plat because the chances of getting good rivens are absurdly small. First of all riven drop already has a low chance. You pretty much only get one veiled riven per week. And that riven might be for pistols or melee, so you probably only get one or two shotgun/rifle rivens per month. Those are the potentially expensive ones.

But once you get that rifle/shotgun veiled riven and you unveil it, the chances of it being for a good weapon are again really small. How many primary weapons are there?
That's why an unrolled Arca Plasmor riven is already 500 plat. Because it is a miracle if you get one.

And we have not started talking about rolls: if getting an Arca riven was a miracle, getting the stats everyone wants on it is the proof God exists. There are more than 40k total riven combinations. Every roll, you have a chance of 1/40k of getting the roll you want. Have a look at this page for more in detail numbers: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sunofthebeach25/Riventistics

So, finally you got the veiled riven you wanted to. You unveiled and you got the weapon of choice. Then, after who knows how many rolls and hundreds of thousands of kuva you get the perfect stats. And you sell it for 400 plat cause hey, we have to keep prices under control!

Capping prices is nonsense. Rivens are not worth tons of plat because greedy evil players want it that way. They are worth tons of plat because they are absurdly hard to get. And that's because DE decided to add as much RNG as possible. It's not player's fault, it is "by design". Prices are reasonable.

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DE doesn't care how much Platin we spent in a good riven and they destroy this with this change! My Supra riven is no more godly and my Rubico riven makes no fun anymore! On the paper the change looks minor but in-game it's a big change! 

DE has a stupid idea and is thinking to increase the riven for an unpopular Weapon make it more interesting! Foolish....

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hace 5 minutos, Vandalz7 dijo:

Asking 1000+ Platinum for any Riven MOD is pure greed. Thank you DE, keep them coming.

Why? Why not 500+?

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31 minutes ago, (XB1)WryWoodenman said:

 

DE give me my stats back on my rivens, you completely robbed me of something i spent a lot of time and money to acquire. You have made a horrible decision, just because a weapon was popular? Give me back what I earned. This is ROBBERY!

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vor 9 Stunden schrieb FunElite:

Mostly good changes. Akstiletto needs a slight buff. Do ppl rly use buzlock, mitter and panthera so much? Never see them anywhere. The nerf feels uncall for.

There is no logic behind! 

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38 minutes ago, TheBronx said:

They are worth thousands of plat because the chances of getting good rivens are absurdly small. First of all riven drop already has a low chance. You pretty much only get one veiled riven per week. And that riven might be for pistols or melee, so you probably only get one or two shotgun/rifle rivens per month. Those are the potentially expensive ones.

But once you get that rifle/shotgun veiled riven and you unveil it, the chances of it being for a good weapon are again really small. How many primary weapons are there?
That's why an unrolled Arca Plasmor riven is already 500 plat. Because it is a miracle if you get one.

And we have not started talking about rolls: if getting an Arca riven was a miracle, getting the stats everyone wants on it is the proof God exists. There are more than 40k total riven combinations. Every roll, you have a chance of 1/40k of getting the roll you want. Have a look at this page for more in detail numbers: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sunofthebeach25/Riventistics

So, finally you got the veiled riven you wanted to. You unveiled and you got the weapon of choice. Then, after who knows how many rolls and hundreds of thousands of kuva you get the perfect stats. And you sell it for 400 plat cause hey, we have to keep prices under control!

Capping prices is nonsense. Rivens are not worth tons of plat because greedy evil players want it that way. They are worth tons of plat because they are absurdly hard to get. And that's because DE decided to add as much RNG as possible. It's not player's fault, it is "by design". Prices are reasonable.

Rivens are a common drop from sorties, I barely run sorties anymore and every other reward I get is a riven the few times I decide to do it. You have a point with the rarity of specific rolls on specific weapons but you're ignoring the massive inflation the riven market has experienced ever since it popped up. Last year I saw 2000~ish plat rivens, that's around $200 worth of platinum. Now when going on riven.market, I can see most rivens with good rolls at least 2000 and 10000 at most. That's 1000$ right there for that 10k plat riven. Rivens are not antiques or collectors items. My point is that a single mod, for a single weapon, given a real world value of several hundred or even thousand dollars, is utterly ridiculous by the standards set by gaming communities as a whole. It is a tiny microscopic sized bit of content for such a massive amount of money, it's a waste plain and simple.

 

Also, why rivens cannot be compared to antiques, and they are not collectors items, rivens are valued for their strength, they are useful and applicable in many practical ways. The only rivens that you could compare to collectors items or antiques are sentinel weapon rivens for the time being because currently, they are unobtainable. A riven is a weapon, not a decoration.

You can get an infinite number of Vectis +damage +crit chance +crit damage rivens for example, rivens are not finite in any way shape or form, again, except for sentinel weapon rivens for the time being. The only justifying factor for their price is rarity, and thinking about that I would give 1000 plat as a logical price for S#&$ like said vectis roll at the most. 

My main point though was to say that there have been no significant changes to any rivens for any weapon, as such value will not decrease by much and usefulness sure as hell won't either (not that it matters because rivens for all the meta weapons are completely overkill).

Edited by K-Sha

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10 hours ago, kellerak said:

1)show me a video of someone one shotting hydraulyst limbs without using glitches

2) even if it was possible it would be like 0.1% of people capable of doing that

3) *with only 85% of my full power* disgusting.putting it simply you just suck at the game and you are happy when players with better gear are frustrated. why do you give your opinion on a riven board if you don't use them and can't be arsed to maximise the potential of your gear? it's astounding to me

4) "We have enough power creep already within the guns themselves " so why do you want rivens for your low tier weapons you love so much?

well i read most of his comment and didnt fully understand what he saying

because he didnt have Top tier rivens , he want them to get nerfed and ppl who using top tier rivens be angry so ppl like of that guy can laugh at them ...

de should do something like this if they wanted top control riven prices why deleting all sentinel weapons?! yesterday i saw some of the sentinel weapons rivens trading for more than 6k plats ...

and if they wanted to make changes on dispositions all of the rivens we rolled should've left untouched, you know i rolled my lanka more than 140 times and now it sux which im not happy with it at all.

i was so hyped for fortuna and now they nered most of my rievns it make me sick of everything in game its a wound that only time can heal it

and i swear if one more time devs decides to do something like this i WILL NOT play this game or supporting it in any way

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4 minutes ago, K-Sha said:

Rivens are a common drop from sorties, I barely run sorties anymore and every other reward I get is a riven the few times I decide to do it. You have a point with the rarity of specific rolls on specific weapons but you're ignoring the massive inflation the riven market has experienced ever since it popped up. Last year I saw 2000~ish plat rivens, that's around $200 worth of platinum. Now when going on riven.market, I can see most rivens with good rolls at least 2000 and 10000 at most. That's 1000$ right there for that 10k plat riven. Rivens are not antiques or collectors items. My point is that a single mod, for a single weapon, given a real world value of several hundred or even thousand dollars, is utterly ridiculous by the standards set by gaming communities as a whole. It is a tiny microscopic sized bit of content for such a massive amount of money, it's a waste plain and simple.

 

Also, why rivens cannot be compared to antiques, and they are not collectors items, rivens are valued for their strength, they are useful and applicable in many practical ways, the only rivens that you could compare to collectors items or antiques are sentinel weapon rivens for the time being because currently, they are unobtainable. A riven is a weapon, not a decoration.

You can get an infinite number of Vectis +damage +crit chance +crit damage rivens for example, rivens are not finite in any way shape or form, again, except for sentinel weapon rivens for the time being. The only justifying factor for their price is rarity, and thinking about that I would give 1000 plat as a logical price for S#&$ like said vectis roll at the most. 

My main point though was to say that there have been no significant changes to any rivens for any weapon, as such value will not decrease by much and usefulness sure as hell won't either (not that it matters because rivens for all the meta weapons are completely overkill).

well when they decide to add rivens they should have think about power creep and high prices on their rivens

and belive they did, they added this riven system with as much as rng possible so most of the ppl just go and buy the riven they want and this makes money for de.

yeah i disagree that some of those rivens were like 10-15k plats ( i saw a rubico sold for 16k plats about 2 weeks ago) but this is devs fault not players, greedy ppl exist everywhere you can only control them by not giving them a chance but de wanted the game to be like this

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On 2018-11-08 at 12:24 PM, [DE]Connor said:

Hail Tenno!

With the excitement surrounding Fortuna, it’s been awhile since we’ve talked about Riven mods - Cephalon Samodeus’ creations can turn the game’s balance on its head, transforming almost any weapon into a uniquely vicious powerhouse.

Since not all weapons are created equal, “Riven Disposition” was introduced as a sort of counterbalance, ensuring that weaker weapons get stronger Rivens and vice versa. Some effort has gone into maintaining Dispositions as new weapons and Primes are introduced, but because of Warframe’s ever-evolving status as a living game, some Dispositions are not an accurate reflection of their weapon’s popularity and power.

As you explore the Orb Vallis, you may notice your Rivened weapons performing differently than usual - this is because we have tweaked Dispositions across the board, to better uphold the delicate balance of power that Rivens represent. Releasing these changes without warning is our way of discouraging market exploitation, which may have occurred if some players knew change was coming, while players who didn’t visit the Forums would be unaware. We understand Riven Disposition is a touchy subject, since many players have accumulated vast and valuable Riven collections. To help keep market fluctuation under control, we followed a few simple rules:

  • No Disposition has changed by more than one “pip” in the Arsenal. (For those knowledgeable about how Rivens work in code, no Disposition will change by more than +/-0.2)
  • Dispositions are based roughly on the weapon’s usage among mid-to-endgame Warframe players, with handmade tweaks where appropriate.
  • If usage stats show that a number should be changed only slightly, we didn’t change it at all - about 40% of all gun Dispositions have gone untouched.
  • As of posting this Workshop, all players who own Rivens have received an in-game message warning them of changes. Buyers beware!
  • Changes will be rolled out to all platforms as quickly as possible, to further prevent market exploitation.
  • Melee Rivens have NOT been changed yet; those tweaks will come along with weapon rebalancing in Melee 3.0.

Based on these parameters, here is the complete list of changes we have made:

  Reveal hidden contents

PRIMARIES:
Amprex: 0.96->0.85
Argonak: 1.0->1.1
Braton: 0.96->1.01
Burston: 1.18->1.25
Buzlok: 1.55->1.45
Cernos: 0.86->0.92
Dread: 0.82->0.9
Ferrox: 1.0->1.1
Grakata: 1.1->1.15
Hema: 1.0-> 1.1
Ignis: 0.79->0.7
Javlok: 1.0->1.1
Lanka: 1.1->0.95
Latron: 1.07->1.15
Miter: 1.6->1.55
Mutalist Cernos: 1.21->1.26
Opticor: 1.21->1.15
Panthera: 1.55->1.5
Paris: 0.96->1.05
Penta: 1.18->1.25
Quanta: 0.9->1.0
Quartakk: 1.2->1.25
Rubico: 1.1->0.95
Scourge: 1.0->1.1
Simulor: 0.5->0.7
Soma: 0.5->0.55
Stradavar: 1.18->1.25
Supra: 1.14->1.0
Tenora: 1.0->1.05
Tiberon: 1.5->1.3
Tonkor: 0.55->0.75
Torid: 1.14->1.2
Vectis: 1.0->0.92
Veldt: 1.0->1.1
Zarr: 1.0->1.08
Zenith: 1.0->1.1
Zhuge: 1.1->1.18

SHOTGUNS:
Arca Plasmor: 0.9->0.7
Astilla: 1.2->1.1
Corinth: 1.0->1.05
Hek: 0.55->0.7
Strun: 1.42->1.35

SECONDARIES:
Akbolto: 0.85-> 0.8
Aklex: 1.0->0.92
Aksomati: 1.26->1.2
Akvasto: 1.24->1.3
Atomos: 0.87->0.8
Azima: 1.35->1.25
Ballistica: 0.85->0.95
Brakk: 0.75->0.95
Bronco: 1.2->1.3
Castanas: 1.42->1.35
Cycron: 1.0->1.1
Despair: 1.24->1.3
Dual Cestra: 1.35->1.3
Dual Toxocyst: 1.19->1.25
Euphona Prime: 0.75->0.7
Fusilai: 1.2->1.3
Gammacor: 0.53->0.65
Hikou: 0.69->0.75
Hystrix: 1.0->1.05
Knell: 1.0->1.15
Kohmak: 1.2->1.3
Kulstar: 1.1->1.2
Lato: 1.51->1.4
Marelok: 0.5->0.65
Pandero: 1.0->0.95
Pox: 0.82->0.95
Pyrana: 1.2->1.0
Sicarus: 1.5->1.3
Sonicor: 0.5->0.65
Spira: 0.66->0.85
Twin Grakatas: 0.76->0.85
Twin Gremlins: 1.5->1.4
Twin Kohmak: 1.1->1.2
Twin Rogga: 1.0->1.15
Vasto: 1.53->1.4
Viper: 1.53->1.45
Zakti: 1.0->1.1


On another relevant note separate from these Disposition changes, we have removed Sentinel weapons from the Riven generation pool. Those that own Sentinel weapon Rivens will still own them in their Inventories. Unveiling a Sentinel weapon Riven was simply lackluster compared to more applicable weapons.

We hope that these changes help bring us closer to the original intention of Riven Mods, reinvigorating weapon diversity at a high level. We will continue listening to player thoughts regarding Dispositions, in hopes of better maintaining this system in the future. Thanks for reading Tenno, and see you on Venus!


EDIT: Wanted to clear up one comment I'm seeing lots of. Many of you have mentioned the Kohm as well as Detron - These weapons were marked for a reduction, but we opted not to change them, because some players depend on these Rivens to achieve 100% status chance. Because of this, small disposition changes had the chance to make a much larger impact on these weapons, so we have left them as is. 

EDIT 2: Thanks to everyone who left their constructive feedback. In response to your suggestions, I wanted to share two plans we have going forward:

1. We are looking into ways for players to intentionally acquire Rivens for their robotic companions' weapons. They will remain outside the Riven generation pool, as previously stated.
2. We will be revisiting Riven dispositions periodically, using the same rules laid out above, to further uphold our stated intentions.

I honestly don't care about sentinent rivens because it doesn't affect our fun. But nerfing the rivens???? it totally kills our fun for rivens

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