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Dev Workshop: Riven Disposition Changes

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1 hour ago, ReshyShira said:

Yes, and these poorly thought-out knee jerk balance changes are just as bad as the poorly thought-out riven disposition changes.

 

But hey, at least it only costs 8 forma rather than 3k platinum.

You might wanna take a gander back to the date when the synapse dropped cause forma didn't drop from alerts and there were no such thing as forma blueprints and there was no such thing as Fissures, so again you (you being anyone) spending2win and then getting grazed by the Orbital Nerf Beam is neither new nor as traumatic as displayed herein, it is in fact Tuesday. And unlike Continuals, "todays" nerf doesn't cut the weapons in half, it cuts the range of the overdamage potential of a weapon that already one shots everything short of a sortie Nox by 25%.

So when "I'm leaving warframe forever, cause my parent's credit card was violated by balances" is bandied with a straight face by an mr12, eight ranks of which is covered under "from the market for real money", perhaps some perspective is in order.

Perhaps.

Probably.

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Honestly if rivens came out a week or two ago and something was ridiculous and DE nerfed it that would be one thing.

I have had a great riven for my favorite gun that I literally run on every single mission and have been using for around 6 months. Suddenly it is about 33% less effective. (proportionally, not absolute change)

That sucks. I love you DE, but this seems pretty low, especially for you guys. 

Edited by Schoolie440
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Welp i have been a player since 2015 more or less, downloaded the game from the official site because i didn't know about steam and was marbled by the game, filled with long hours of farming and wait but rewarding nonetheless, i remember fearing the time that i heard for the first time the vault i believe that my stuff was gonna disappear but DE got my back hard working teenos will get to keep their stuff, you don't need to worry DE said, ooo what a wonderful developer this is just had like a  half rhino set at the time but it was mine that was the time i decided i would spend time and resources in your game and i was happy 

I've seen  as i call them market crisis i recall the lens crisis and how you introduced them in the markets game because they were exploited day and night i remember a set of 4 normal lenses being about 400p on the market or the first time that you introduced Riven  mods god it was glorious everyone trying to get their hands on their favorite riven exchanging sets and what not, then the dispo changes were introduced  and i could see the disappointment and rage of the community prices dropped no one wanted to buy and i believe the servers got attacked maybe by other reasons but still around that time 

I kept playing the game even with the buffs and nerfs of rivens and weapons i even was ok with this recent one being made not big changes, well my pyrana got destroyed but that was ok,  i could use it anyway even with the "i sell you this, pay me, i pay then you break it and give it to me gimmick" i was ok but today i really got destroyed by a simple side note added "1. We are looking into ways for players to intentionally acquire Rivens for their robotic companions' weapons. They will remain outside the Riven generation pool, as previously stated." with this you made me spend my plat on inflated trash rivens in hopes of them becoming a collectors pride but now i just realice that i have no plat and a lot of trash, 

Well that said after a long journey of looking all day on my weekends for a good trade and farming resources and kuva like a madman  "good lord the kuva" just for that weapon or that god roll, helping newcomers and telling them that we had the best community "and we still do" i've decided that warframe is no longer a good way to spend my time not just because hard earned stuff might be changed on what seems like a whim but also by the disregard for old time players in seek of a false balance, i mean really the "kohm" stays the same? but o well best weapon in the game with a riven right? i played warframe to be op if i spended enough time in it, i was a merchant who liked to acquired rivens polish them and resell  the product to an agreeable price now im someone that just waits for his clan to connect and ask if they want something from the pile before i retire.

I don't really have a point to make as bad as i feel im powerless to do something, people will still play and have fun and no one will remember it as they play. guess some day the next outrageous fix comes to rustle some jimmies and get some players to leave. hmph welp this was meaningless  but it kinda made me feel better o well just  know that i enjoyed your game just until today, and for other players don't look for top tier stuff is not worth your goddamn time. 

And sorry if i have mistakes english is not my native tongue. 

Edited by KingTikky
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9 minutes ago, KingTikky said:

with this you made me spend my plat on inflated trash rivens in hopes of them becoming a collectors pride but now i just realice that i have no plat and a lot of trash. 

that is completely your fault alone, no one told you to buy those. more importantly DE didn't tell you to buy those promising greater returns in future.

you took a risk, and it backfired. that's how things work. deal with it.

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Riven mods are a huge speculative bubble TBH. Much like how Primed Chamber is also a speculative bubble. They both actually have no real value and are just ascribed value by careless people.

Look at what happened during the Dutch Tulip Mania.

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For these people, who think it's cool to see people who invested time and money in rivens, are the same people who spend helping to bring new content, spending real money. When it takes to get out new content do not complain, I'm sure everyone who spent real money to buy rivens, today are thinking differently in regards to continuing to invest in the game. Excuse my English, not my language.

Edited by (XB1)LordBolt
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People buy plat for lots of reasons, so people really need to stop acting like rivens are the only thing keeping the game alive and development coming. DE was doing just fine before rivens, they will keep doing fine after these changes, and if you feel like you lost out because your rivens are now devalued slightly, just remember...

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Terrible changes. The riven system is a mess. You shouldn't even bother changing dispositions until you rework the system completely. Why spend plat on rivens when they are arbitrarily nerfed? I know I will be thinking twice about investing any kind of time or money into this game.

At the end of the day this is a PvE game and the balance of weapons doesn't even really matter that much, so why bother pissing off a significant portion of your players?

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5 hours ago, -Kittens- said:

Your story is so compelling that I literally cried.

 

It makes me so sad and heartbroken to... oh wait.

 

I sunk 8 forma into the synapse the week it debuted because it was my kinda weapon, an exponential lightsaber infested death ray that would bust all the ghosts, and happily carried folks whom had no business in being anywhere near level 60 infested derelicts and strange new Orokin towers, even though they nerfed it that week as well, a little. Then right before Nekros came out the weapon I used to melt all the things received a 100% nerf because Scott happened to play for a weekend event and saw someone with set up that did less damage than mine and lost his S#&$ at how a player was just zapping entire high level tilesets to goo.

(he also nerfed the warframe the player used as well, and she's never been as good since)

This was before update 13, better known as FIVE YEARS AGO.

Five years. The synapse and amprex sucked for five years.

100% damage reduction. Cut in literal half. Same for the Amprex, same for the Phage.

So all due respect, you know nothing of nerfpangs and loss.jpg.

You have no clue. Not the faintest inkling.

AP and Opticor rivens can still reach 300% dps with ease, and neither weapon even needs a riven to be used at level 100 content reliably and with due dispatch.

DE has stated time and again not to get married to rivens or any other mechanic that trivializes the economy of outcome, and lo Saryn and banshee and Trin and Nidus get the nerf bat, because that's how DE model has worked since day one, you just ignored that it did.

Fist of all, thanks for your time that you gave in writing a response, I loved it. Secondly, A valid point, I agree that I am not as old as many veterans here who was playing Warframe from release date but I had some share of nerfs too, if not the most of it. I was long enough in game to hear about the changes and nerfs that disappointed the entire game players. I didn't get the experience myself but I had a feeling gradual nerfs will come. 

 

However which I didn't know that they will change riven stat multiplier as well. I thought they put the multipliers in the first place after reviewing the stats and such. But now at one point the realize that People one-shotting limbs in PoE. Then they increase base level and add 2 other eidolons...changed how chroma works but that still didn't stop us from one shotting it just because we started making more lethal builds . Now they are changing the numbers so that it becomes tough once more. (Don't get me wrong, with proper builds and buff one shot is still possible) but just a lot harder for everyone. 

 

Yes I agree, Opticor is a fine weapon even with a low grade riven but as said earlier from the start the game tells us to get stronger aka get higher numbers and tbh there is a nice contentment in seeing big numbers with no external buff factors. But those numbers were representation of our hard work on rivens, be in rolling over and over again till a desired stat is obtained or farm for plats day n night and then buy the riven from someone who already has the stat you want (and for the most cases it's not cheap) Only reason I suggested that Ok release less powerful but do it prior to release, many of us has gotten used to how things work here and there. ts not like we are using a Hack tool to change values , we are playing according to in game mechanics.  Similar case with Warframe "changes" they call it changes but we call it "nerf" because we have spent thousands of hours with it and we know what is better and what is not.

 

In the end Ig I did ignore the fact that things change in WF for the worse at times. I still love the game though and will keep loving it because I enjoyed every bits of it. 

 

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2m96we.jpg

 

Everyone in here acting like their rivens are completely unusable now, I mean imagine quitting the game because your powerful weapon got slightly less powerful(but still completely able to do what you were doing before without a problem).

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Most of the changes I can agree with.  I have just under the max capacity of 90 for these mods and just about all of them I either rolled myself or bought with plat from stuff I sold over time so I'm not really salty tbh.  Glad they didn't oof the shotgun weapons that need the 100% status to be good.

 

Why the sniper changes though? Eidolon hunts shouldn't skew the charts for their usage.  I admit things like the rubico p are very powerful so I'll just have to live with that but that's the only activity I see people using them for.  How often do you guys see people using a Lanka or Vectis in a regular mission?

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17 minutes ago, (PS4)TNDA_Vice said:

Most of the changes I can agree with.  I have just under the max capacity of 90 for these mods and just about all of them I either rolled myself or bought with plat from stuff I sold over time so I'm not really salty tbh.  Glad they didn't oof the shotgun weapons that need the 100% status to be good.

 

Why the sniper changes though? Eidolon hunts shouldn't skew the charts for their usage.  I admit things like the rubico p are very powerful so I'll just have to live with that but that's the only activity I see people using them for.  How often do you guys see people using a Lanka or Vectis in a regular mission?

Exactly my pov

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Never in my life did I expect to see a lato nerf...

I can agree with several of these adjustments, but at the same time others seem entirely uncalled for.

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As the owner of a number of rivens that were "nerfed" in this update (Tiberon, Rubico, and Akbolto, to name a few), I have this to say:

I am very pleased to see riven dispositions finally getting some attention. The system did not reflect the changes in the meta and the release of new (prime) weapons over the past ~2 years. Based on the OP, I have a couple things to add:

1. As others have said, RIVEN DISPOSITIONS MUST BE UPDATED MORE OFTEN. Updates should occur AT LEAST every 2 months, preferably even more often. An automated system that uses weapon usage statistics (how the riven disposition system was advertised in the first place) could help accomplish this.

2. Weapons such as the Kohm should also be affected by these updates, despite the concerns with 100% status chance stated in the OP. Why? Because it sets a very bad precedent for certain weapons to be cherry picked (read: susceptible to bias) in and out of future disposition updates and this goes against the original idea behind why riven disposition should be subject to change.

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8 minutes ago, RiftRipper said:

Weapons such as the Kohm should also be affected by these updates, despite the concerns with 100% status chance stated in the OP.

Maybe this could work as incentive for DE to revisit shotgun status chance

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13 minutes ago, NerdwiseGamgee said:

Never in my life did I expect to see a lato nerf...

I can agree with several of these adjustments, but at the same time others seem entirely uncalled for.

The Vandal and Prime hit very very hard.

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On ‎2018‎-‎11‎-‎08 at 12:24 PM, [DE]Connor said:

Hail Tenno!

With the excitement surrounding Fortuna, it’s been awhile since we’ve talked about Riven mods - Cephalon Samodeus’ creations can turn the game’s balance on its head, transforming almost any weapon into a uniquely vicious powerhouse.

Since not all weapons are created equal, “Riven Disposition” was introduced as a sort of counterbalance, ensuring that weaker weapons get stronger Rivens and vice versa. Some effort has gone into maintaining Dispositions as new weapons and Primes are introduced, but because of Warframe’s ever-evolving status as a living game, some Dispositions are not an accurate reflection of their weapon’s popularity and power.

As you explore the Orb Vallis, you may notice your Rivened weapons performing differently than usual - this is because we have tweaked Dispositions across the board, to better uphold the delicate balance of power that Rivens represent. Releasing these changes without warning is our way of discouraging market exploitation, which may have occurred if some players knew change was coming, while players who didn’t visit the Forums would be unaware. We understand Riven Disposition is a touchy subject, since many players have accumulated vast and valuable Riven collections. To help keep market fluctuation under control, we followed a few simple rules:

  • No Disposition has changed by more than one “pip” in the Arsenal. (For those knowledgeable about how Rivens work in code, no Disposition will change by more than +/-0.2)
  • Dispositions are based roughly on the weapon’s usage among mid-to-endgame Warframe players, with handmade tweaks where appropriate.
  • If usage stats show that a number should be changed only slightly, we didn’t change it at all - about 40% of all gun Dispositions have gone untouched.
  • As of posting this Workshop, all players who own Rivens have received an in-game message warning them of changes. Buyers beware!
  • Changes will be rolled out to all platforms as quickly as possible, to further prevent market exploitation.
  • Melee Rivens have NOT been changed yet; those tweaks will come along with weapon rebalancing in Melee 3.0.

Based on these parameters, here is the complete list of changes we have made:

  Reveal hidden contents

PRIMARIES:
Amprex: 0.96->0.85
Argonak: 1.0->1.1
Braton: 0.96->1.01
Burston: 1.18->1.25
Buzlok: 1.55->1.45
Cernos: 0.86->0.92
Dread: 0.82->0.9
Ferrox: 1.0->1.1
Grakata: 1.1->1.15
Hema: 1.0-> 1.1
Ignis: 0.79->0.7
Javlok: 1.0->1.1
Lanka: 1.1->0.95
Latron: 1.07->1.15
Miter: 1.6->1.55
Mutalist Cernos: 1.21->1.26
Opticor: 1.21->1.15
Panthera: 1.55->1.5
Paris: 0.96->1.05
Penta: 1.18->1.25
Quanta: 0.9->1.0
Quartakk: 1.2->1.25
Rubico: 1.1->0.95
Scourge: 1.0->1.1
Simulor: 0.5->0.7
Soma: 0.5->0.55
Stradavar: 1.18->1.25
Supra: 1.14->1.0
Tenora: 1.0->1.05
Tiberon: 1.5->1.3
Tonkor: 0.55->0.75
Torid: 1.14->1.2
Vectis: 1.0->0.92
Veldt: 1.0->1.1
Zarr: 1.0->1.08
Zenith: 1.0->1.1
Zhuge: 1.1->1.18

SHOTGUNS:
Arca Plasmor: 0.9->0.7
Astilla: 1.2->1.1
Corinth: 1.0->1.05
Hek: 0.55->0.7
Strun: 1.42->1.35

SECONDARIES:
Akbolto: 0.85-> 0.8
Aklex: 1.0->0.92
Aksomati: 1.26->1.2
Akvasto: 1.24->1.3
Atomos: 0.87->0.8
Azima: 1.35->1.25
Ballistica: 0.85->0.95
Brakk: 0.75->0.95
Bronco: 1.2->1.3
Castanas: 1.42->1.35
Cycron: 1.0->1.1
Despair: 1.24->1.3
Dual Cestra: 1.35->1.3
Dual Toxocyst: 1.19->1.25
Euphona Prime: 0.75->0.7
Fusilai: 1.2->1.3
Gammacor: 0.53->0.65
Hikou: 0.69->0.75
Hystrix: 1.0->1.05
Knell: 1.0->1.15
Kohmak: 1.2->1.3
Kulstar: 1.1->1.2
Lato: 1.51->1.4
Marelok: 0.5->0.65
Pandero: 1.0->0.95
Pox: 0.82->0.95
Pyrana: 1.2->1.0
Sicarus: 1.5->1.3
Sonicor: 0.5->0.65
Spira: 0.66->0.85
Twin Grakatas: 0.76->0.85
Twin Gremlins: 1.5->1.4
Twin Kohmak: 1.1->1.2
Twin Rogga: 1.0->1.15
Vasto: 1.53->1.4
Viper: 1.53->1.45
Zakti: 1.0->1.1


On another relevant note separate from these Disposition changes, we have removed Sentinel weapons from the Riven generation pool. Those that own Sentinel weapon Rivens will still own them in their Inventories. Unveiling a Sentinel weapon Riven was simply lackluster compared to more applicable weapons.

We hope that these changes help bring us closer to the original intention of Riven Mods, reinvigorating weapon diversity at a high level. We will continue listening to player thoughts regarding Dispositions, in hopes of better maintaining this system in the future. Thanks for reading Tenno, and see you on Venus!


EDIT: Wanted to clear up one comment I'm seeing lots of. Many of you have mentioned the Kohm as well as Detron - These weapons were marked for a reduction, but we opted not to change them, because some players depend on these Rivens to achieve 100% status chance. Because of this, small disposition changes had the chance to make a much larger impact on these weapons, so we have left them as is. 

EDIT 2: Thanks to everyone who left their constructive feedback. In response to your suggestions, I wanted to share two plans we have going forward:

1. We are looking into ways for players to intentionally acquire Rivens for their robotic companions' weapons. They will remain outside the Riven generation pool, as previously stated.
2. We will be revisiting Riven dispositions periodically, using the same rules laid out above, to further uphold our stated intentions.

 

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6 часов назад, Darknestime сказал:

DE do same like EA,ubisoft,activision and most of Asian f2p developers,possibility to players spend more real money and more time in game

Totally agree.
IMHO, this is the general trend of the last decade in the gaming industry. 

Therefore, it is even amusing for me to read in this forum the statements like "I will never play game X, because it was developed by the greedy campaign Y!!")
Oh well ...

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42 minutes ago, RiftRipper said:

Weapons such as the Kohm should also be affected by these updates, despite the concerns with 100% status chance stated in the OP. Why? Because it sets a very bad precedent for certain weapons to be cherry picked (read: susceptible to bias) in and out of future disposition updates and this goes against the original idea behind why riven disposition should be subject to change.

totally agree on this, kohm disposition should get balanced just like every other weapons disposition, No Biasing.

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First the sound change of melees (new painful sound of the dual swords) now this riven disposition change! I think I will take a break for a while. DE is going the same way as Bungie with D2! Banish Core gamer! 

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30 minutes ago, Gr1mjaw said:

totally agree on this, kohm disposition should get balanced just like every other weapons disposition, No Biasing.

Except it isn't bias, they explain their reasoning very well in the beginning but everyone seems to be ignoring it.

Everyone keeps quoting: 

Quote

 These weapons were marked for a reduction, but we opted not to change them, because some players depend on these Rivens to achieve 100% status chance. 

when they should be reading the entire thing and noticing:

Quote

Because of this, small disposition changes had the chance to make a much larger impact on these weapons, so we have left them as is. 

They intentionally moved dispositions at a max of .2 because they wanted to avoid overcorrection and excessively impacting weapons. With the Kohm they specifically state that even a small disposition change would disproportionately affect the kohm compared to other weapons. This is a result of the kohm's popularity rising SPECIFICALLY because of it's ability to reach certain status chance breakpoints, as a result small adjustments that would make it unable to reach this breakpoint would massively drop it's usage. There are only a handful of weapons where if a single stat is changed by a very small amount that it's usage would drop ~90%.

So the option ended up being, does DE nerf it's disposition and people stop using it altogether, only to have to raise it in the future because noone uses it, just to make it very strong again? Or just leave it as is because it's in a stable spot? Stop crying for a nerf because you think fairness is everyone getting hit for the same amount, you have to look at the situation for each weapon and DE seems to have done that.

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Thank you DE for trying to keep some kind of control over your game and his market.

The madness around Riven is going too far, disposition changes are needed monthly or every 3 month at least. 

Can't wait to see melee 3.0, keep up the good work !

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