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Dev Workshop: Riven Disposition Changes

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I think we can all agree that no-one wants anything to get a Nerf, just get the weapon disposition right whenever you release a new one or it's prime variant,¬† and disposition being decided by the weapons popularity is kinda ūüôÉ.

If DE decided that the Kohm needs  that disposition because it's status chance should achieve those values so be it,  and maybe other good weapons require a 5 disposition too ,mainly because they're slow and have no reach and messing with the values of those rivens would dramatically impact the weapon and game style. 

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all players want to play in hight LVL not -50 lvl with crappy weapon and stat and sentinel /kavat /kubrow /warframe physics dont resist in meduim lvl and now u nerf the rivens hhhhhhhhhh .............. i think the Dev of warframe never played PC action games // MAD MAX /Rage/ COD/FC5¬†etc .. try to get culture in games my shame community of Dev ūüėė

Edited by TheOnLySaw
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il y a 6 minutes, FrostDragoon a dit :

Wow, that's in impressively bad comment.

yes its a shame community make all nice things in this game nerf every times // the Dev never think's to play in hight lvl w dont have a good basicly staff resist " sentinel die fast kavat kurow etc w just resist with good build weapons in this game

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5 hours ago, Ikusias said:

If a weapon is so "bad" that it deserves disposition 5, it makes sense that it needs all the help possible, not that any negative rolled on its rivens would be the maximum possible number alongside its buffs.

This is actually a really good point. Dispo should increase the scaling on positives and DECREASE the scaling on negatives. Realistically nobody is running with a Riven until it's been rolled such that it both has a negative stat AND that negative stat doesn't affect it (i.e. decreased status on a crit weapon) but still.

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16 hours ago, Kadromar said:

low firerate and no slash value

Your reliance on the youtubes meta massively devalues your argument, and perhaps some research should be in your future.

Your and others' poor understanding of actual in game value and effectiveness is what leads directly to WTS TacticoolPotatoRivenitis 5000P to begin with.

Edited by -Kittens-
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2 hours ago, -Kittens- said:

Your reliance on the youtubes meta massively devalues your argument, and perhaps some research should be in your future.

Your and others' poor understanding of actual in game value and effectiveness is what leads directly to WTS TacticoolPotatoRivenitis 5000P to begin with.

You know, people always say this kind of thing, but never make any effort to debunk it. Seems more like they should be saying, "I don't like that you do what other people do for no good reason."

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On 2018-11-10 at 4:11 AM, FrostDragoon said:

This is why I said earlier that I think the "popular = strong" notion is flawed logic. This is the argument that people should be pushing against, but instead there are lots of people who buy into the fallacy and defend it.

Exactly. There are a variety of reasons why some weapons are popular aside from damage. Some weapons are just flat out bad and are in dire need of some individual tweaking which makes some of the disposition changes even more baffling.

Also certain game modes like ESO and Eidolon Hunts encourage the use of certain weapon types over others contributing to their overall popularity. 

Edited by Azrael_V
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11 hours ago, Azrael_V said:

Exactly. There are a variety of reasons why some weapons are popular aside from damage. Some weapons are just flat out bad and are in dire need of some individual tweaking which makes some of the disposition changes even more baffling.

Also certain game modes like ESO and Eidolon Hunts encourage the use of certain weapon types over others contributing to their overall popularity. 

There are a few weapons that have little gimmicks or traits outside of just being improved stat wise, but those are few and fare between. Eidolon hunts say use Snipers while ESO wants you to kill fast - but mostly use two warframes or conditional mods and if melee maiming strike with macros- Elite Sanctuary Onslaught is a poorly designed and balanced mode so far but just wants quick kills so it does ask for non-snipers at the least for most folk. The reason its popularity is because that is how DE manages nerfs and buffs.

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2 minutes ago, Urlan said:

There are a few weapons that have little gimmicks or traits outside of just being improved stat wise, but those are few and fare between. Eidolon hunts say use Snipers while ESO wants you to kill fast - but mostly use two warframes or conditional mods and if melee maiming strike with macros- Elite Sanctuary Onslaught is a poorly designed and balanced mode so far but just wants quick kills so it does ask for non-snipers at the least for most folk. The reason its popularity is because that is how DE manages nerfs and buffs.

We understand that. We're calling into question the wisdom of it considering all the negative sides to that methodology. The logic doesn't hold up when held to deeper analysis and actual examples in game of where it breaks down, as have been discussed copiously in this thread.

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1 hour ago, FrostDragoon said:

We understand that. We're calling into question the wisdom of it considering all the negative sides to that methodology. The logic doesn't hold up when held to deeper analysis and actual examples in game of where it breaks down, as have been discussed copiously in this thread.

I don't think you will see too many players disagree there, but its not the players you need to convince.

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To some degree it is, because we need the community to see why it's so flawed in order for them to collectively persuade DE to change it.

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Destiny 2 had its worst performance in dlc in that renegades, is not selling reason is discouraged of the players with nerfs, I see it happens even here now, in destiny to all new content released (DLC) you lost what you had conquered, you lowered your equipment that had conquered, very annoying it, here with the new content nerfs in the rivens, exits the destiny for this and was when friend presented me with warframe and I confess spectacular game, when I got acquainted with the rivens of ours, I was more delighted with the game that freedom, can I can customize your fire power of your equipment, but in my case 1% more or less makes a difference, if I can improve something even if I say 5 of force in a warframe will spend 2 or 3 forms because I spend and improve, I am mr25 I have everything in the game 356 days of login I only lost 4 days, which was now after Nerf of the rivens, I buy all packages that DE launches, because I like the game too much, another reason to buy so many platinas it was the rivets I collect, my injury to this nerf is gigantic, out of discouragement, and uncertainty of can buy other rivens with these nerfs now, well I think this, some will think it's crying, but it's an outburst, I'm sorry English It's not my language.

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8 minutes ago, (XB1)LordBolt said:

Destiny 2 had its worst performance in dlc in that renegades, is not selling reason is discouraged of the players with nerfs, I see it happens even here now, in destiny to all new content released (DLC) you lost what you had conquered, you lowered your equipment that had conquered, very annoying it, here with the new content nerfs in the rivens, exits the destiny for this and was when friend presented me with warframe and I confess spectacular game, when I got acquainted with the rivens of ours, I was more delighted with the game that freedom, can I can customize your fire power of your equipment, but in my case 1% more or less makes a difference, if I can improve something even if I say 5 of force in a warframe will spend 2 or 3 forms because I spend and improve, I am mr25 I have everything in the game 356 days of login I only lost 4 days, which was now after Nerf of the rivens, I buy all packages that DE launches, because I like the game too much, another reason to buy so many platinas it was the rivets I collect, my injury to this nerf is gigantic, out of discouragement, and uncertainty of can buy other rivens with these nerfs now, well I think this, some will think it's crying, but it's an outburst, I'm sorry English It's not my language.

Language barrier issues aside, I think I understand what you're saying, and many have said similar things. The only way for the riven system to not repeat this as a cycle, that so many find to be painful, is to convince DE that popularity is a poor metric to base buffs/nerfs on. Otherwise, we're going to see the same kind of reaction every time they do a "balance pass" on rivens.

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2 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

Language barrier issues aside, I think I understand what you're saying, and many have said similar things. The only way for the riven system to not repeat this as a cycle, that so many find to be painful, is to convince DE that popularity is a poor metric to base buffs/nerfs on. Otherwise, we're going to see the same kind of reaction every time they do a "balance pass" on rivens.

Well some very long time players peaced out after these changes, in some cases chunks from larger clans. Active players, active spenders, active participants in the community, so lets hope their reaction and the constructive feedback from others makes a difference. I can't for the life of me see how the people up top justified a business decision that allowed for a massive exception like the Kohm because of its popularity, as though the nerfs and improper adjustments to other popular weapons and nonsensical ones like the Viper weren't going to have backlash once they were touched. I'm definitely going to be very minimal in my spending going forward knowing that they're willing to implement such large scale changes without real discussion with the community and further based on something that can change as quickly as popularity.

It seems that they really don't get that a system where Rivens are nerfed or buffed based on what's being used is going to create a constant seesaw and continue to upset players. It might generate some boost in sales initially, but once enough players realize that the back and forth only benefits DE by moving more Plat and hurts the community I think the backlash will grow even worse. Again, this was a very, very bad change to throw into place without actual community feedback; that said, after the Daily Login feedback was by and large ignored with the exception of players screaming that mods from it shouldn't be traded, I don't know how much discussion will really be listened to, and that's just sad.

Edited by True_Naeblis
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Feeling I have, I'm screaming but no one's listening, their silence from DE. This topic had more repercussion than the topic of fortune, question I ask, in a game of pve that problem generates status of my Riven to another player?

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1. Keep updating the dispositions on a regular basis in small increments

2. Identify weapons that are very powerful (Staticor, Tiberon Prim, Strun Wraith) and give them a hard-set disposition value

3. Before releasing a powerful Prime version to a weak and unused weapon, tweak the disposition

4. Reconsider if different versions of a weapon should have different dispositions from regular versions. (Tiberon - Tiberon Prime; Strun - Strun Wraith; Supra - Supra Vandal) They get to keep the same riven, just the % values change between the different versions of a weapon. Not sure if that possible though. But there is no way you can compare Strun to Strun Wraith. Or tiberon to a prime version.

 

I think these 4 steps would be a good start to fixing this stuff.

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20 hours ago, (XB1)LordBolt said:

Feeling I have, I'm screaming but no one's listening, their silence from DE. This topic had more repercussion than the topic of fortune, question I ask, in a game of pve that problem generates status of my Riven to another player?

Because those who don't own it are salty that u have a powerful riven and they feel the need to ruin it for you. In a game with recruit tab, pve fighting, and no one forcing anyone to use supposedly op weapons/warframe, I have not found any convincing argument why DE should cater to those whining for nerfs. And no, I have never had Mesa or Excalibur or Ember "steal kills" from me cuz I don't whine when I play PUBLIC matches. Here is what I propose: don't buy platinum nor expensive riven, DE probably made mad money when rivens first dropped as players spent big plat trading them just to be slapped by DE's nerfs.

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Maybe it's not what you said, but how you said it. That's the usual BS that people come at me for when they don't have anything to refute me properly. Is it the kind of thing you can reiterate without triggering the "always outraged" crowd?

Looks like your comment was removed for no reason again, Peter. Sorry, bro.

Edited by FrostDragoon

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The existence of Sentinel Rivens is not entirely bad at all. It makes the companion weapon useful especially for status proc, crowd control, damage assist, and possibly kill enemies with low survivability. Removing them makes companion weapons not really worth our time.

As most people don't really priority on rolling/getting companion weapon rivens, reduce their kuva roll cost & maximum roll cost, and separated them into another veiled riven(Veiled Companion Riven) that drops from a different table and/or purchased using standing.

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2 hours ago, XGhost161 said:

The existence of Sentinel Rivens is not entirely bad at all. It makes the companion weapon useful especially for status proc, crowd control, damage assist, and possibly kill enemies with low survivability. Removing them makes companion weapons not really worth our time.

As most people don't really priority on rolling/getting companion weapon rivens, reduce their kuva roll cost & maximum roll cost, and separated them into another veiled riven(Veiled Companion Riven) that drops from a different table and/or purchased using standing.

Eh, before they reintroduce sentinel rivens I'd want them to actually balance the sentinel weapons first, more than half of them are purely useless.

Edited by Marvelous_A
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24 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

Eh, before they reintroduce sentinel rivens I'd want them to actually balance the sentinel weapons first, more than half of them are purely useless.

There is no "balancing" them right now. They need to straight buff most of them into "useful" territory before balance is even on the table.

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