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Dev Workshop: Riven Disposition Changes

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13 hours ago, (PS4)buddysball7 said:

bro people who have played this game longer and have put time and effort into the game have way more to say about things then a person who has just started.

More knowledge about the game goes along way then a mr2 or someone like you with 22 days played im sorry if it offends you but the truth hurts that more people in this game have more experience and knowledge then some one with less time played its a pure fact.

See, this is where your "logic" falls apart. What your stalker habits don't reveal is my PS4 account with MR24 and many, many more days played. That 22 days you see is wrong too.  Steam alone shows over 1,000 hours, and that doesn't count my PS4 time played. You're operating under a fallacy because you don't have anything legitimate or useful to add.

You're also wrong about the MR 2 example, because it doesn't matter what their MR is if what they say is true. You claim to have all this play time, but you repeatedly say false things. Think on that.

Edited by FrostDragoon

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6 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

See, this is where your "logic" falls apart. What your stalker habits don't reveal is my PS4 account with MR24 and many, many more days played. That 22 days you see is wrong too.  Steam alone shows over 1,000 hours, and that doesn't count my PS4 time played. You're operating under a fallacy because you don't have anything legitimate or useful to add.

You're also wrong about the MR 2 example, because it doesn't matter what their MR is if what they say is true. You claim to have all this play time, but you repeatedly say false things. Think on that.

So what your saying is that all you did is build your weapons and level on Hydron 15 waves and out never really played with anything in the game 1,000 hours there are people here with 8,000 hours so how are you more qualified to answer questions then a true veteran of the game that had played and forma everything in the game. This is all just my opinion on the matter and im sure some other veterans feel the same way.

And if you say you play on PS4 then add me would love to have a civil conversation with you.

 

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As long as you keep making assumptions about people instead of making valid points, nobody will want to have a discussion with you. You're still trying to say that I don't have the time invested to have a say, but I do, and that was never a requirement in the first place. You're still holding onto that fallacy. There's no "discussion" to be had until you return to reason. What you're doing is just trolling, plain and simple.

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2 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

As long as you keep making assumptions about people instead of making valid points, nobody will want to have a discussion with you. You're still trying to say that I don't have the time invested to have a say, but I do, and that was never a requirement in the first place. You're still holding onto that fallacy. There's no "discussion" to be had until you return to reason. What you're doing is just trolling, plain and simple.

When you realize you have not played the game enough to even have the experience but that's fine call me a troll its cool just shows that you still don't know what your talking about. I would totally say more but people are so sensitive they get there feelings hurt lol.

DE this is why Veteran Players stick together cause new players think they know the game after 5 minutes of play time. Just wish more would actually have the guts to say it on forums then just in chat parties. And even some of the Warframe partners have had discussions about this from what i was told.

 

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18 hours ago, (PS4)F34REDBEFORE said:

Yeah I've played more hours than you. Trust me. Where did I say it fires pellets? My riven's status chance went down, I think I'm allowed to be upset. 

Haha. I've been playing warframe for nearly 5 years. I'm sure you have played more than me though.

The point is that since the Arca Plasmor fires a single projectile the status chance is not divided per pellet. As a result losing a small amount will have a very insignificant impact on your status chance. This is also why pellet-based shotguns need 100% natural status chance whereas all other weapons can survive with a far lower status percentage.

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Has DE not seen this massive thread? Seriously, most of these comments are negative. Say something, anything at all! Not even acknowledging this rubs salt in the wound. Give us more Kuva then. 500 per Kuva harvester should make this trash go down smoother, but hot garbage is still hot garbage.

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9 минут назад, (PS4)Multi-Melta сказал:

Разве DE не видел эту массивную нить? Серьезно, большинство из этих комментариев отрицательные. Скажите что-нибудь, что угодно! Даже не признавая, что это втирает соль в рану. Тогда дайте нам больше Кувы. 500 за кувейский комбайн должен сделать этот мусор более плавным, но горячий мусор все еще горячий мусор.

I agree. 50 pages of mostly negative reviews. The developers could comment on their decision with at least one message, designate their plans for the future of rivens (specify them), and either offer some form of compensation to the injured players, or explain why they do not consider it necessary to give any compensation. At least, to give at least players to understand that their opinion to developers is not indifferent.

 

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I see a lot of people claiming that these aren't based on the "Real" usage of these weapons, do you think that they don't record usage stats? The people who have access to all information about the game probably know what weapons are used most. Also I saw someone talk about the miter changes as though they are completely unjustified because the weapon isn't strong or used often, but it is used often because of the neutralizing justice mod. I would agree that it would be better not to have changed it, but it makes sense why it was changed.

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I already said, I'll talk again, no theme of fortune has given as much subject as the nerf in the rivens, I always heard that (DE) heard the community, so I ask her now? Just look at comments over 70%, or more than this felt hurt.

Edited by (XB1)LordBolt
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can we at least get a public spread sheet posted somewhere that lists usages of weapons?
I want to be well informed if I'm about to make a bad investment!
Also you nerfed all the good snipers, and by good I mean all the snipers that actually behave like snipers and not some semi automatic rifle!
You made a remark about depending on rivens for 100% status chance on shotguns, I depended on riven to make 1 shot magazine vectis prime!

Also check this out! You cannot achieve DE's "original intent", only ruin the market and the reason to keep playing this game!

 

 

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15 hours ago, ruffboy2 said:

I see a lot of people claiming that these aren't based on the "Real" usage of these weapons, do you think that they don't record usage stats? The people who have access to all information about the game probably know what weapons are used most. Also I saw someone talk about the miter changes as though they are completely unjustified because the weapon isn't strong or used often, but it is used often because of the neutralizing justice mod. I would agree that it would be better not to have changed it, but it makes sense why it was changed.

So you believe that they nerfed the Viper because it was a heavily used, enemy destroying, super meta killing machine, or because they're completely out of touch at times and rushed this disposition "update" without taking the right things into consideration? 

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30 minutes ago, True_Naeblis said:

So you believe that they nerfed the Viper because it was a heavily used, enemy destroying, super meta killing machine, or because...

It's MR fodder and everyone uses it that way. It is widely used. Welcome to the fallacy of "popular = strong."

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16 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

It's MR fodder and everyone uses it that way. It is widely used. Welcome to the fallacy of "popular = strong."

Why would one weapon be MR Fodder more than any other weapon? It’s not like Viper gives 10x mastery or something, if you’re using it just for MR gain then you discard it at 30 and move on to the next MR fodder secondary that you use exactly as much before discarding it.

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2 hours ago, RhythmScript said:

Why would one weapon be MR Fodder more than any other weapon? It’s not like Viper gives 10x mastery or something, if you’re using it just for MR gain then you discard it at 30 and move on to the next MR fodder secondary that you use exactly as much before discarding it.

I get where you're going with that, and it's a valid point, but we don't know how far back DE tracks something to be a candidate for these changes. It could only be a month. It could be three. I doubt it's much longer. If there's a sudden spike in usage (even as an outlier) DE could have read the data that it is suddenly "more popular." It could also be something to do with the Viper Wraith, if that was recently mass acquired. I know it's also an ingredient for the Hystrix (a somewhat newer weapon). There are several factors that go into it and sadly almost none of them have anything to do with actual use of the weapon. It's just false positives in the data.

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6 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

It could also be something to do with the Viper Wraith, if that was recently mass acquired

Actually I do wonder how usage is tracked across weapons with multiple Riven-usable variants. A weapon with 3-4 variants will see a bump in MR-grind-only usage over a weapon with only 1.

but, in the end, I just don’t think that really accounts for a ton of use time. Maybe it does but the amount of raw play hours it takes a late-game player (and DE confirms those are the usage stats they look at, otherwise Skana would be WAY higher) to take an MR-fodder weapon from 0 to 30 is basically nothing. I mean however you choose to do your leveling of gear, any weapon you think is worth Formaing once will be guaranteed to have twice the use time on the leveling alone. Most late-game players are forma-ing the gear they like an average of what, 4 times? That’s 5 cycles from 0 to 30, which should be roughly a fivefold increase in usage per weapon over an MR grind item. Even if you compare a well-liked secondary with one variant to an MR fodder secondary with a prime, vandal/wraith, AND syndicate variant (and do those even exist?) that’s 4 variants to level which makes that weapon just a wash to the average leveling of the well-liked item, and the latter will theoretically also see ordinary non-leveling playtime usage as well.

I just don’t see how MR fodder grinding could amount to more than background noise in the usage data when looking at Riven dispos.

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Yeah, I see your point, but Fortuna brought an influx of new players too, so that distorts the spread of which MR fodder weapons are getting use. The main problem is just that DE isn't too clear about the usage data itself, so there's a lot of speculation here.

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I've always heard the point of rivens was to increase usage of lesser used ( therefor weaker) weapons. Yet when the Hind can't get to 100% crit chance with over 400% of added critical chance value something is wrong. (Yes I know what's wrong. The Hind sucks.)

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Guess what I'll continue to use. I'm fine with the idea that rivens will never be "fixed" whatever that entails. My best suggestion is at least make weapons like the hind there usable rather then straight laughable. 

Edited by Fire2box
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I think the fact that they nerfed the disposition of the freaking LATO even a little bit shows how out of touch this riven disposition change was. I'm sorry, but these changes were bad and they should feel bad. They shouldn't have introduced rivens into the game with the damage system as it was anyway, and now it's really suffering for it.

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*DE Releases or has a mod that changes a stat by 40%*

Community: "It's trash, pointless to use said mod, isn't worth a slot, nobody will use it when there is X mod available, DPS calculation makes the mod obsolete"

*DE changes stats on current rivens, changing them on stats by only a small ammount*

Community: "The mod is now worthless, my build is ruined, payed alot of plat, now it's worth half, the stats changed alot, game unplayable, huge nerf"

 

To me, things remained essentially the same, prices are defined by the seller so your mods are worth the same unless you change the price of it, DE has no decision on how much you should sell them, that responsibility falls on the seller so i believe the complaints fall flat, especially when this was supposed to happen, you had an absurd ammmount of time to prepare.

Edited by KIREEK

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14 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

To me, things remained essentially the same, prices are defined by the seller so your mods are worth the same unless you change the price of it, DE has no decision on how much you should sell them, that responsibility falls on the seller so i believe the complaints fall flat, especially when this was supposed to happen, you had an absurd ammmount of time to prepare.

Oh, I agree completely. Riven prices are absurd and I've never paid more than 100 plat for one, but they used popularity to determine stats when the very fact that the weapons had good dispositions was going to influence usage. It's a classic Catch-22. Those that enjoy min-maxing are going to suffer from unwarranted changes regardless of whether they're following the 'meta' or not, and if we as a culture have learned anything from high school, it's that nothing should ever be determined by popularity.

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5 hours ago, SaberSentinel said:

I think the fact that they nerfed the disposition of the freaking LATO even a little bit shows how out of touch this riven disposition change was

Or maybe Lato Vandal is a thing...

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7 hours ago, Lizard_Lick said:

make rivens non-tradeable before prices reach a value of a used car.

problem solved.

That would really wreck the plat trading the highest priced mods I've seen are condition overload, adaptation.   If DE wants to go that way I'll certainly understand why. However I think in that sincario they should give us chances to earn rivens rather then pray to sortie RNG god x3 times. 

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