Why don't Rivens track Disposition?

[ReshyShira]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

You are just looking at the stats after the disposition modifier is applied. The stats of the riven are fixed once you roll it. This allows DE to review data and adjust the dispositions over time without having to change the stats of every single riven for that weapon.

EDIT: Here's an example. Let's say your riven has a 50% electricity, 80% critical damage, and 60% multishot. If the disposition is 1.00 then you will see exactly these stats. If DE changes the disposition to 1.10 then you now see 55% electricity, 88% critical damage, and 66% multishot. The riven stats are still the same as listed previously, the modifier just changed.

I know how the system works, doesn't mean that the stats haven't changed.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

37 minutes ago, ReshyShira said:

I know how the system works, doesn't mean that the stats haven't changed.

That's like saying that because the sales tax increased that every store raised their prices. Sure the total cost increased but the item's price remains unchanged.

[Beartornado]

20 hours ago, ReshyShira said:

When a Riven drops, why don't they track their disposition?  It feels really unfair to have a riven's stats retroactively changed on you despite all the kuva or plat you might have invested into it.  I don't mind riven disposition being changed, but existing rivens should remain the same.

So weaker rivens would never be buffed by changes in their favor?

Edited November 10, 2018 by Beartornado

[CyberPrimate]

I knew that dispositions will eventually change, so my philosophy towards Rivens was always - invest at your own risk. Either plat or Kuva..

So when my Tibreon riven will eventually become useless after they tweak its Disposition in next changes (I think they said that they wont nerf more than 1 dispo rating at a time) I wont be angry because I knew that dispositions are going to be fluctuating. So Im not sure why some of the players are raging. Players made the riven market ridiculously bloated. If you wish to spend 4k on a riven that can be totally nerfed on the next Update, then sorry but you had to take that into account.

That being said there are still quite a few faults on DE's side. Why are dispositions not tweaked much more often? Why are they not changed before a really strong Prime version of a weapon gets introduced? Among some other issues that I wont list here.

[ReshyShira]

13 hours ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

That's like saying that because the sales tax increased that every store raised their prices. Sure the total cost increased but the item's price remains unchanged.

That's not even close to comparable. 

 

13 hours ago, Beartornado said:

So weaker rivens would never be buffed by changes in their favor?

I think a Riven's disposition should be locked in when they're unveiled, and the number of pips recorded.

 

 

13 hours ago, CyberPrimate said:

I knew that dispositions will eventually change, so my philosophy towards Rivens was always - invest at your own risk. Either plat or Kuva..

So when my Tibreon riven will eventually become useless after they tweak its Disposition in next changes (I think they said that they wont nerf more than 1 dispo rating at a time) I wont be angry because I knew that dispositions are going to be fluctuating. So Im not sure why some of the players are raging. Players made the riven market ridiculously bloated. If you wish to spend 4k on a riven that can be totally nerfed on the next Update, then sorry but you had to take that into account.

That being said there are still quite a few faults on DE's side. Why are dispositions not tweaked much more often? Why are they not changed before a really strong Prime version of a weapon gets introduced? Among some other issues that I wont list here.

That's another thing, what is the end-game for Riven balance?  When is a riven balanced?  We can't, and don't know this, so how can we make an informed decision.  The default disposition in warframe is 1.0, or 3 pips for new weapons.  However, as the update launched many pistols got downgraded to below 1.0 disposition, which makes me wonder just where the hell is the balance point for rivens?

[Beartornado]

3 hours ago, ReshyShira said:

I think a Riven's disposition should be locked in when they're unveiled, and the number of pips recorded.

Then it create's the opposite problem and is unfair to players who work hard on a strong roll for a Riven based on it's current disposition, only for it to get buffed and new versions of the same Riven have better stats for less effort. But it's not an equal unfairness because it also doubles down on the issue of elitism and unique items as Riven's will exist that are obscenely powerful for the weapon as they are never nerfed even if the weapon becomes better. The current system and how it's handled could be improved, but locking in dispositions is not an improvement as at least the current system changes all baselines equally rather than creating unique Rivens that you can only acquire by chance or obscene quantities of plat. If nothing else we know for certain DE wants to cut back hard on unique items that provide gameplay stats or tools nobody else has access to.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Beartornado

[ReshyShira]

Just now, Beartornado said:

Then it create's the opposite problem and is unfair to players who work hard on a strong roll for a Riven based on it's current disposition, only for it to get buffed and new versions of the same Riven have better stats for less effort. But it's not an equal unfairness because it also doubles down on the issue of elitism and unique items as Riven's will exist that are obscenely powerful for the weapon as they are never nerfed even if the weapon becomes better. The current system and how it's handled could be improved, but locking in dispositions is not an improvement as at least the current system changes all baselines equally rather than creating unique Rivens that you can only acquire by chance or obscene quantities of plat.

The current system is horrendous, locking in rivens would, if nothing else, at least make sure that valuable rivens don't see a massive drop in value.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

3 hours ago, ReshyShira said:

That's not even close to comparable. 

It's exactly the same thing because just like the base riven values, the store price doesn't change. What is changing is the modifier that affect the final value, disposition and sales tax respectively. Just because you don't want to admit it doesn't change the facts.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

24 minutes ago, ReshyShira said:

The current system is horrendous, locking in rivens would, if nothing else, at least make sure that valuable rivens don't see a massive drop in value.

And DE made it clear from the start that dispositions would change. Just because they neglected this system for far too long doesn't somehow negate the intent of rivens from their inception. It's buyer beware.

[Beartornado]

38 minutes ago, ReshyShira said:

The current system is horrendous, locking in rivens would, if nothing else, at least make sure that valuable rivens don't see a massive drop in value.

The current system is horrendous because of players, there's no reason for so many Riven's to be so obscenely priced to begin with beyond greed. The actual value of great rivens on great weapons isn't tangible for 99% of the game compared to the performance of most weapons, at best you might save minutes killing a few of the bullet sponges in the game or brag about pushing the limits of an endless mode. By extension even Nerfs aren't crippling because you still won't lose usefulness for most of the game. Maybe you lose farming potential but DE has happily broken entire maps or frames in the name of stopping easy farming methods.

And this comes back around to the main issue. You're going to have to convince DE that specific players should have specific advantages by locking in Rivens that nobody else will ever be able to acquire or make on their own after the dispo changes. You'll also have to convince them to give up the power to shift meta because dispo changes won't stop all the players who heavily invested in meta weapons from continuing to abuse that meta while others are locked out of it.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Beartornado

[Solarsyphon]

On 2018-11-09 at 9:39 PM, ReshyShira said:

I dunno, which is worse:  To reward players who invested time and kuva back when the disposition was really high with a riven that remains god tier to this day, or do you punish players who invested time and kuva back when the disposition was really high with a riven that's pretty meh these days?

 

Personally, I'd err on the side on "make players feel like their investment matters".

 

Giving your customers buyer's remorse, or making them feel that their time investment isn't respected by the company who ultimately dictates how good a riven is is uh... just as bad?

You invested in snake oil. Riven's were never truly worth what people were charging and that's how they made so much profit. They're production value has always been the cost of a veiled riven ( around 65p at the moment) and its a travesty that prices got past  15x that value.  

Everything should always be subject to change that is not up for debate. There is no good reason to exempt a group of items from balancing just because you put effort in to them. Frames get changed, weapon get changed and mods get changed.  You need to move past this idea that anything should be exempt from changes because its like asking for immortality and is not a small ask.