Now that Fortuna will attract new players, can we remove some of the "noob traps"?

[Lord_Drod]

especially.

[Antiphoton]

3 minutes ago, Lord_Dckrod said:

especially.

Thanks, fixed. English isn't my native language.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Antiphoton

[Arekin]

3 hours ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

Also you get 50 plat which is 1 warframe slot and 4 weapon slots.

Sadly though, since they dont tell you that you need plat for slots, people don't get the idea that they should conserve that plat.  I got in game and used the plat to buy a syandana.  I regretted that for a while, until I started to get a stash of prime parts i could sell for plat.

[Methanoid]

2 hours ago, FlusteredFerret said:

As with all F2P games, they have to make their money somehow. You are going to hit a paywall sooner or later, depending on just how deep you want to go.

You either buy a premium account (Prime Time in this case) or you buy plat to spend in the shop. Or you can buy cosmetic stuff like skins.

 

the problem as always, since day 1, has been that these facts, obvious to us, are totally hidden away and unmentioned to new players (as with 95% of this wiki game), which is outright hurtful to a company that wants money and a healthy playerbase.

[FlusteredFerret]

10 minutes ago, Methanoid said:

the problem as always, since day 1, has been that these facts, obvious to us, are totally hidden away and unmentioned to new players (as with 95% of this wiki game), which is outright hurtful to a company that wants money and a healthy playerbase.

Hardly.

I was a newbie a little over a year ago. I can remember being boggled by the complexity of the game...yet never once did I feel obliged to pay for anything. Actually, the monetary stuff should be fairly obvious to anyone with any previous experience of F2P games.

I gained the majority of my knowledge by trial and error in game and asking questions here. As I said before, I only found out there was a Wiki after 3-4 months (which many on here will direct you to). Plus, once you know its there, it is a fairly ready and useful source of info (not in every case of course, but the majority).

You're talking as though DE are using some weird and devious monetary policy, totally unheard of in gaming.

[(PSN)Cynicaid]

I have nearly 2k hours in the game and still run out of slots fairly often.

It doesn't help that feeling of burn-out when I realize I need to deal with the cesspool that is Trade chat just to keep building up my dragon's horde of gear. There is nothing I hate more in this game than trade chat.

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

Anyone else find it ironic that in this topic everyone agrees that DE is terrible at showing how things work but this topic is sandwiched between riven topics were everyone is adamant that DE is brilliant at explaining things and dispo changes are common knowledge 😂

[Antiphoton]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)obsidiancurse said:

Anyone else find it ironic that in this topic everyone agrees that DE is terrible at showing how things work but this topic is sandwiched between riven topics were everyone is adamant that DE is brilliant at explaining things and dispo changes are common knowledge 😂

Just another day in the forums, everything as usual.

Anyway, let's avoid turning this into some kind of meta commentary please, hehe.

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

10 minutes ago, Antiphoton said:

Just another day in the forums, everything as usual.

Anyway, let's avoid turning this into some kind of meta commentary please, hehe.

Sorry didn’t mean to derail, just found the complete contrast funny.

also, on topic, the market is pretty poor too and  can give a ptw impression.

[IIDMOII]

100% agree with op. This game does an absolute horrific job of explaining things to new or returning players. 

I'm in the same boat as the OP. I can never for the life of me get any friends into this game. They hit that wall with a crappy starter frame and that's it. They're lost. They see that in order to get out of the horrible starter rut with Excalibur. They have to spend money. 

I'm still against potatoes. I think they're a double dip and poorly designed system that carries no game play significance. It's simply a money grab. No content in the game is designed for non potatoed items.

So right off the bat in order to make something viable you need to spend money. That is the definition of chasing away players. "You can play with that toy but it's only half as good unless you buy a potato" 

Those 2 things are not free to play. They're free to try.

Veterans can chime in about horrible trading system and free potato alerts all they want. But it won't change new player perception of these systems.

Sure I've gotten tons of free weapons, warframes from quests and blueprints and collecting relics. But try telling a new person that. A new player will hit the pay wall before they dig deep enough to get any freebies. 

Love the game but potatoes and new player hump have always been 2 huge problems for me getting friends into it.

By the time you're ever introduced to the warframes acquisition loop you've already been sent to the store to see all things you're expected to buy to keep up. It's daunting and a huge turnoff to be introduced to the cash shop so early in the loop of a FREE game.

Lots of people like to chime in about how these companies need to make money etc. That's fine. But a F2P game should always be free to play from start to finish. You shouldn't ever hit a power or progression wall that drives you to the store.

A properly made free to play game for the western market should never include game play systems or loops that end at the cash shop. Ones interest in the cash shop should revolve around wanting to support the devs instead of overcoming pay walls.

Western market views free to play as a bad word. It's scummy and predatory. And when a new player sees that before they're even deep enough to enjoy the game. It's a loss.  It's a fail.

You need to be more psychological with westerners. You can't say "buy S#&$ from our store because tou hit a wall". You have to say things like " hey you just put 250 hours in. Why don't you check out our shop and support the devs?" 

Just like food or any other service based industry, presentation is half the battle. Present the cash shop later on and new guys might stick to.it long enough to get hooked.

[Methanoid]

18 hours ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Hardly.

I was a newbie a little over a year ago. I can remember being boggled by the complexity of the game...yet never once did I feel obliged to pay for anything. Actually, the monetary stuff should be fairly obvious to anyone with any previous experience of F2P games.

I gained the majority of my knowledge by trial and error in game and asking questions here. As I said before, I only found out there was a Wiki after 3-4 months (which many on here will direct you to). Plus, once you know its there, it is a fairly ready and useful source of info (not in every case of course, but the majority).

You're talking as though DE are using some weird and devious monetary policy, totally unheard of in gaming.

again, what is obvious to you does not apply to all, does it hurt DE by not explaining things even slightly, yes ofc it can.  Does it hurt them to explain things even a little... no, theres only gains for minimal effort.

[Campaigner]

It might be better that the dumber players quit warframe and stick to COD, etc.

This community is one of the best for a reason.

[CortiWins]

Have to agree on a lot of things said here. If my friends would start the game, i would feel the urge to give them a two hour speech about things i think are good to know for beginners. The game is increadibly good, so its wasted potential.

[Lord_Drod]

I actually had a hard time finding out how to install a focus lens.  I had gathered a few of them, and they were just sitting in my inventory, until I asked someone that I knew was farming focus w me in onslaught and then googled it.  I really wouldn't have expected it to be in a tiny option within the upgrade menu on my frame.  This is definitely a game that would benefit from having an oldschool "instruction manual" for the basics and advanced features.  I would have certainly enjoyed reading one when I was starting out.  The first time you collect something new, Lotus should just give you a quick tip since the main reason why we don't have those elaborate manuals anymore is because games are supposed to explain themselves digitally.

[Rakosta_Kai]

It's a Catch-22...

If DE improves the new player experience more than it is now... Players complain that they were "led" into making decisions they couldn't reverse (potatoes, slots, item purchases) or that the process was so linear they lost engagement.

 

If DE doesn't improve the new players experience more than it is now... Players will say that they lost interest in having to go look stuff up or felt overwhelmed by the options, etc.

There's no win for DE, imo, on this subject....You either like the game enough to be engaged or you don't.

 

Best route, imo, is solve for the engaged player...

Get the ads off the wiki, and improve its' user experience while adding a link in-game to get questions answered.

You could literally put an Ordis projecter in the Orbiter that links to the/their wiki directly.  Keep the wiki updated, correct, and cut out/optionally hide the random opinion commentary.

Make it a Dulfy (of sorts) for Warframe . 

[Antiphoton]

14 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Players complain that they were "led" into making decisions they couldn't reverse

Excuse me, but I can't see how this make sense. No one would "be led" anywhere, all I'm asking for is a few sentences to better inform newcomers, so they can know what potatoes and slots are, how to get them, and make the decision themselves.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

This is one of the very few issues I have with WF and I can attest to almost giving up when I first started do to this very reason

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, Antiphoton said:

Excuse me, but I can't see how this make sense. No one would "be led" anywhere, all I'm asking for is a few sentences to better inform newcomers, so they can know what potatoes and slots are, how to get them, and make the decision themselves.

Beg to differ...

Since Orokin Reactors and Catalysts can't be removed, any suggestion regarding their use aside from the basic information of "super powering
 your item can be viewed as a advice.

A suggestion acted on by the player but counter to the player's expectations can and has been attributed to players stating they "felt mislead".  

 

It's important to note we are talking about the engaged new player with limited resources...Telling that player to wait a month for a chance to get a potato blueprint risks alienating that player.

Why?

• They will need the node for the alert
• There's no guarantee which item is offered
• They will need to know how to watch for the alert
• They will need the mats to make item

All of which are things they would have learned by being engaged with the game and asking relevant questions.

Player engagement won't be cemented with that type of information....Likewise, suggesting they potato items (when they can't remove it) risks doing the same thing.

  That's why I called it a Catch-22...There's really nothing, imo, DE can do.

 

Let's say they took your idea and gave an additional slot...Then the player winds up feeling tricked when they have to buy one so long after having already spent their free plat.

Let's say that DE gave additional items, frames, etc... Players risks feeling overwhelmed by the extra stuff AND confused when they have to start farming to get the needed items to build more weapons ...Only now at rank 4 or 5 (a point where their knowledge on basics should be higher).

The extra hand-holding doesn't help the actually engaged player and is a wasted effort on the player that wasn't engaged to begin with.

It's extra work, that can be complained about... For no appreciable gain.

Making knowledge readily accessible though? Immediate dividends...Provided it's separated from subjective opinions (i.e. XYZ sucks).

...something like that even has the ability to increase engagement for new players still on the fence about the game.

Mirrors to the different .Markets put on a full featured (and ad free) wiki encouraging interfacing in the online trade portion reduces trade channel fears and encourages farming because goals are more clearcut.

...But that's just my opinion.

[Antiphoton]

They will have to deal with all those inconveniences you're mentioning in any case. They already have to do it now. I'm saying that I've personally seen cases of newcomers that were engaged, some more than others, and immediately lost all their interest when they had to deal with slots and potatoes.

Sorry, but I see zero logic in what you say.

1 hour ago, Padre_Akais said:

Then the player winds up feeling tricked when they have to buy one so long after having already spent their free plat.

^ For example - they already are feeling tricked now! Even faster!

I can't imagine giving one extra slot will harm the plat sales, I'll let DE figure that out. I'm just asking them to consider that the positive image they will have from doing it and the players they will retain will may be more profitable in the long term.

[Bombarder0]

 

[Rakosta_Kai]

17 minutes ago, Antiphoton said:

They will have to deal with all those inconveniences you're mentioning in any case. They already have to do it now. I'm saying that I've personally seen cases of newcomers that were engaged, some more than others, and immediately lost all their interest when they had to deal with slots and potatoes.

...Then they didn't need to be playing this game to begin with.

Every item in this game uses slots and potatoes and the bulk of them won't be free unless the player is very patient or very dedicated to ensuring they follow that model.

22 minutes ago, Antiphoton said:

Sorry, but I see zero logic in what you say.

Allow me to correct you:

It's not that you don't see logic in what I am saying... The fact that you paraphrased what I said ensures you understood it.

You simply don't agree with the perspective I hold.

It's entirely fine that you don't...I gave my opinion.

I also gave reasons for why I hold the opinion I do.

27 minutes ago, Antiphoton said:

^ For example - they already are feeling tricked now! Even faster!

...I rather doubt that.

A player that feels tricked because they received and misspent a measure of plat without relevant advice on how to spend it is a player with only themselves to blame. 

If we were to use your reasoning, what you should then be asking for is that DE give no additional plat, slots, or help aside from starter frames and gear instead.

...Then new players have no chance to be "tricked" into making bad decisions without them having empowered themselves to do so directly.

30 minutes ago, Antiphoton said:

I can't imagine giving one extra slot will harm the plat sales, I'll let DE figure that out. I'm just asking them to consider that the positive image they will have from doing it and the players they will retain will may be more profitable in the long term.

An extra slot is definitely a benefit and I am sure would be appreciated...It also increases the amount of time the player has before they come face to face with the game's actual mechanics.

Only DE would know if that amount of time is going to create promoters or detractors... Were it me, I would feel baited and switched if I didn't want to trade for plat, spend money, or be patient.

...Your opinion clearly differs.

 

[Antiphoton]

I'm on my phone, it's a bit messy to try to quote specific parts of your reply. I propose that we just agree to disagree, there is nothing to gain arguing about this. My intention was just to voice my concern based on my personal experience, and hope that DE notices and considers it. 

[_Keniji_]

Yep as new player especially alone you will always hit this kind of "wall" and either you like the game enough to overcome the wall by informing or asking around in guild chat for example or you will just probably quit. Without help or info its just try and error and you will waste some resources and credits along the way. Either you can get up again on your feet or you feel too demotivated to keep going :).

So DE a little bit more Info and help for new players would be indeed very benificial for yourself 🙂

Edited November 12, 2018 by _Keniji_

[Mingtzu]

 I think I left after I found out I had to buy slots with real money. I didn't know till I came back again that I could farm for items I could trade to players for plat. Once I got the hang of it I was able to buy something like 10 frame slots and 10 weapon slots. I don't mind paying for plat in this game cause it's a fair price imo but some players might be too young for a job and might want to get more slots without $$.

 I'd suggest that they make a tutorial after you finish that starting area. It would say "Here is an item. Now lets go to a kiosk located in hub and trade to so-and-so npc. Now you have plat. Lets use that plat to buy an extra frame slot and weapon slot. In the future you will either have to buy plat or farm items to trade to players for plat. With plat you can buy more frame slots, weapon slots or anything else in the market with the plat tag."

 Very basic but gives you a starting knowledge to move forward with.

[FlusteredFerret]

On 2018-11-10 at 8:19 PM, Padre_Akais said:

It's a Catch-22...

If DE improves the new player experience more than it is now... Players complain that they were "led" into making decisions they couldn't reverse (potatoes, slots, item purchases) or that the process was so linear they lost engagement.

 

If DE doesn't improve the new players experience more than it is now... Players will say that they lost interest in having to go look stuff up or felt overwhelmed by the options, etc.

There's no win for DE, imo, on this subject....You either like the game enough to be engaged or you don't.

 

Best route, imo, is solve for the engaged player...

Get the ads off the wiki, and improve its' user experience while adding a link in-game to get questions answered.

You could literally put an Ordis projecter in the Orbiter that links to the/their wiki directly.  Keep the wiki updated, correct, and cut out/optionally hide the random opinion commentary.

Make it a Dulfy (of sorts) for Warframe . 

Hmm...

While I do agree Warframe should be a game for the thinking gamer and that players should be encouraged to find stuff out for themselves, I also think the game could be a bit more helpful to newbies.

I don't see any harm in providing basic information, that simply tells players what things are for and how / where they can be obtained. Maybe with a bit of context, where necessary, to show how they can be used in the game.

Something like tool tips (with an option to switch them on / off) so that when you hover over things, you get a window with a few lines of text & maybe a link to the relevant Wiki entry. Or perhaps expand the Codex, so you can search for everything, without having to have scanned / unlocked it.

Speaking of Wiki, World of Tanks has a proper ad free site. I agree it would be great if DE could create an official WF Wikipedia, without all the annoying ads that make it difficult to read sometimes. Compare and contrast...

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/World_of_Tanks

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/WARFRAME_Wiki

 

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by FlusteredFerret