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(PS4)cleefsentence

About the unchanged Kohm disposition: read this and think about it

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So we all know that DE has lowered the disposition of the more popular and strong weapons in the game like the Plasmor, the Lanka, the Amprex and many more. There is a weapon tho which rivens are still untouched, the Kohm ones.

The roll that anyone wants on a Kohm riven has +120 status chance, roll a 119% is not good because then to reach that sweetie 100% status chance before multishot you still need that damn 60% 60% mod. Believe it or not but people would pay even 20.000 plat for a groll riven that has +120% status chance. That's a lots of plat and money, REAL money that people use to get what they like, in this case god rolled rivens.

In the Riven Workshop topic [DE] Connor wrote this:

Quote

EDIT: Wanted to clear up one comment I'm seeing lots of. Many of you have mentioned the Kohm as well as Detron - These weapons were marked for a reduction, but we opted not to change them, because some players depend on these Rivens to achieve 100% status chance. Because of this, small disposition changes had the chance to make a much larger impact on these weapons, so we have left them as is. 

as stated by this phrase, seems that DE doesn’t want to touch the Kohm disposition because there are people out there that without the 120% status chance can’t (they literally DEPENDS on them) use the weapon anymore, implying that the Kohm without a disposition of 5 that permits to reach the +120% status chance would be too much worst if compared to before.

Well, this is completely wrong and i want to show you how the Kohm does’t need that 100% status chance to be fukin op and how the unchanged disposition of it maybe hides:

1) An huge ignorance by DE about the game weapons power

2) Reasons related to the market that these rivens have

3) Other understandable reasons that i would really like to listen by DE

 

alright, cut to the chase let’s see how my "not so godly" Kohm riven performs versus lvl. 150 corrupted bombards and heavy gunners, the strongest enemies you may will encounter in the game cause of their armor value so high.

https://gfycat.com/InbornShockingGibbon

oof, the Kohm totally need a 120% status chance roll to be usable… literally unplayable without.

Jokes apart, I can say without any doubt that the Kohm can perform extremely good even without a 100% status chance so why DE decide to not touch the Kohm disposition? Because there are players that depends on that 120% status chance? Oooh so sweet by you DE to think about players, really, no jokes here.

But hey, there are people that maybe depended on their Plasmor with +fire rate riven to enjoy it without waste another slot to put an utility mod, or people that depended  on a +critical chance on their Opticor riven to reach a 90% crit chance so they can use hunter munitions. Like those guys that need that 120% status chance to not use another slot for the 60% 60% mod.

I want to end this topic with this phrase: "all are equal before the law but is the law equal to everyone?"

Think about it. Cya.

 

ps. i'm not asking for a nerf of the disposition, just inviting all to think about this move of DE.

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As a Kohm and Detron lover I completely agree. The Kohm doesn't need 120% status chance to hit 100, it only needs 60%.  120% is nice as you can remove a dual stat mod, but not necessary. And my crit based Kohm riven is also viable in high level content. 

The real change that needs to happen around shotguns is to alter how status chance works. It really should be per pellet, same as crit. This would require lowering the base status chance across the board, but would result in a much more equitable system.

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I honestly don't understand why they left the Kohm untouched, and I know this is just another thing that drives them into a corner.

What is this garbage, if they're going to roll out disposition changes widespread it should impact all the weapons ESPECIALLY the Kohm/Detron since they are indeed popular.  DE choosing not to touch disposition over certain builds further skews the inherent market value and integrity of the riven system itself.

Kohm could achieve 100% status chance before multishot so a riven was never required in the first place.  We have the 4 60% status mods, and we also have Nano Applicator which can increase status chance by another +90%.

Let's all invest in Kohm rivens right now because DE will never end up nerfing them?

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10 minutes ago, Omega said:

Let's all invest in Kohm rivens right now because DE will never end up nerfing them?

A super-op weapon which disposition will never be changed as confirmed by DE directly.

Can you imagine the market of these rivens in some months? The prices they will reach?

 

DE you're creating a monster that someday will eat you.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)cleefsentence said:

Can you imagine the market of these rivens in some months? The prices they will reach?

Have to say, who cares? idiots will buy at whatever price, everyone else will just ignore their existence. Nothing should be balanced on market price in this game, this isn't Eve.

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2 minutes ago, VanDisaster said:

Have to say, who cares? idiots will buy at whatever price, everyone else will just ignore their existence. Nothing should be balanced on market price in this game, this isn't Eve.

The problem is that those rivens will be untouchable, unlike others. DE said that they will keep the kohm disposition as it is now because there are people that DEPENDS on that 120% status chance roll. Seems right to you to treat those rivens (and their owners) in a special way?

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14 minutes ago, (PS4)cleefsentence said:

A super-op weapon which disposition will never be changed as confirmed by DE directly.

Can you imagine the market of these rivens in some months? The prices they will reach?

 

DE you're creating a monster that someday will eat you.

It's unlikely to affect the prices at all actually. Regardless, I think the kohm is unique in this regard specifically because the makeup of the market for it's rivens was so heavily one sided into this specific stat setup and it's one where it's so sensitive to a disposition adjustment that it shouldn't be lowered but it also should never be raised. It's in that sweet spot where it can barely reach the ideal setup. Outside of the detron and 1 or 2 other weapons, I can't think of a weapon with a riven community so hyper focused on a very specific stat lineup involving breakpoints. I think it's just practical to not ruin the entire reason players were investing in that weapon to begin with. (Also runs into the scenario where the kohm becomes popular because of it's disposition > it's disposition is lowered > people just drop it entirely > so it's disposition goes back up, so I legitimately think it's a weapon that should be static in it's disposition.) Where other weapons just aren't affected to the same degree.

Granted I'm biased because I am one of those people who spent 20k+ for one and I'm happy DE is looking at this in an objective way for the most part. I'm not saying they should do it one way or the other, I am saying I support the way they chose to go about it though.

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The unchanged kohm disposition is just another bad decision on top of the bunch of bad decisions this whole riven disposition change has brought.

PS: should we call this Kohmgate already?

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15 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

It's unlikely to affect the prices at all actually. Regardless, I think the kohm is unique in this regard specifically because the makeup of the market for it's rivens was so heavily one sided into this specific stat setup and it's one where it's so sensitive to a disposition adjustment that it shouldn't be lowered but it also should never be raised. It's in that sweet spot where it can barely reach the ideal setup. Outside of the detron and 1 or 2 other weapons, I can't think of a weapon with a riven community so hyper focused on a very specific stat lineup involving breakpoints. I think it's just practical to not ruin the entire reason players were investing in that weapon to begin with. (Also runs into the scenario where the kohm becomes popular because of it's disposition > it's disposition is lowered > people just drop it entirely > so it's disposition goes back up, so I legitimately think it's a weapon that should be static in it's disposition.) Where other weapons just aren't affected to the same degree.

Granted I'm biased because I am one of those people who spent 20k+ for one and I'm happy DE is looking at this in an objective way for the most part. I'm not saying they should do it one way or the other, I am saying I support the way they chose to go about it though.

Bro no offense but you're a kohm +120% riven owner right? If so, obviously you're happy 😁

We all have invested in rivens, i have friends with 200+ rolled rubico rivens. I rolled some rivens 80+ times too after so much kuva farm to burn out and leave the game for a while.

DE with this decision is making Kohm rivens and their owners specials and untouchable. This a spit in the face to all those players that worked on their plasmor/lanka/bla bla rivens as kohm owners did.

Not saying that DE can't rebalance dispositions, just to be equal.

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Just now, (PS4)cleefsentence said:

Bro no offense but you're a kohm +120% riven owner right? If so, obviously you're happy 

 

? I said I supported the decision, however I laid out that I believe the decision is a rational one not simply "thank you for not nerfing my sacred cow", I think a legitimate case can be made for why it shouldn't be lowered.

Quote

We all have invested in rivens, i have friends with 200+ rolled rubico rivens. I rolled some rivens 80+ times too after so much kuva farm to burn out and leave the game for a while.

I'm not talking about time or plat investment. I'm talking about usage and stat setup weighting. 

Quote

DE with this decision is making Kohm rivens and their owners specials and untouchable. This a spit in the face to all those players that worked on their plasmor/lanka/bla bla rivens as kohm owners did.

Not special from my perspective, just there is a clear difference between the weapons and their utilization with rivens. There is no stat on the arca plasmor or the lanka that will nerf it's usage by 90% if it dropped by 5-8%, this however is the case with the kohm. 

I think that if you are put into a situation where if a specific weapons riven is nerfed that it's usage would drop so drastically that it would have to be raised in the next balance, then you should make the determination that it's in a spot where it should stay.

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10 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

? I said I supported the decision, however I laid out that I believe the decision is a rational one not simply "thank you for not nerfing my sacred cow", I think a legitimate case can be made for why it shouldn't be lowered.

I'm not talking about time or plat investment. I'm talking about usage and stat setup weighting. 

Not special from my perspective, just there is a clear difference between the weapons and their utilization with rivens. There is no stat on the arca plasmor or the lanka that will nerf it's usage by 90% if it dropped by 5-8%, this however is the case with the kohm. 

I think that if you are put into a situation where if a specific weapons riven is nerfed that it's usage would drop so drastically that it would have to be raised in the next balance, then you should make the determination that it's in a spot where it should stay.

DE will nerf maiming strike with melee 3.0, people will get rid of it from any build. A mod sitted in the meta zone for years and selled for very high prices, but this is not stopping them to kill it.

I can only think that the reason behind the unchanged kohm disposition is more than "kohm usage will drop too much". See the nerf of tonkor and simulor. People literally stopped to use them and seems that DE don't care about that.

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7 minutes ago, (PS4)cleefsentence said:

DE will nerf maiming strike with melee 3.0, people will get rid of it from any build. A mod sitted in the meta zone for years and selled for very high prices, but this is not stopping them.

An entire mechanic change is a little bit different than a disposition change. Also DE even came out and said that maiming strike led to a meta that they didn't quite intend it to, which is why they originally nerfed it from attacking through walls and objects.

Quote

I can only think that the reason behind the unchanged kohm disposition is more than "kohm usage will drop too much".

Yeah, that's what I was explaining. It makes sense and I agree with not changing the disposition because that would be the eventual outcome. 

Quote

People literally stopped to use them and seems that DE don't care about that.

Well those a different issue. As far as their rivens are concerned, they did raise their disposition with this last pass. But their usage stopped mostly because of the mechanic change they went through.

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18 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

An entire mechanic change is a little bit different than a disposition change. Also DE even came out and said that maiming strike led to a meta that they didn't quite intend it to, which is why they originally nerfed it from attacking through walls and objects.

Yeah, that's what I was explaining. It makes sense and I agree with not changing the disposition because that would be the eventual outcome. 

If DE really wants to stop you to abuse of a weapon they will do it anyway, they can:

- Lower the base stats so even with a riven the weapon can't be saved (stug case)

- Change a mechanic like the plasmor headshot multiplier

- Change dispo of rivens so op weapons can't break the game too much

- Change op mods (maiming strike soon and maybe hunter munitions someday)

 

For me the decision is market related, not usage related. They don't care if you stop to use a weapon (tonkor and simulor) or a frame (nukes like ember). We have seen this many times in the past so is a logical conclusion to say that the kohm with a dispo 5 is something that normally DE would nerf instant. If they don't want to do it is because there are people that would be more pissed than the plasmor riven guy.

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The reasoning for not nerfing Kohm is perfectly fine. The disposition change was not intended to bring about very drastic changes in the values of the affected rivens; that's why they limit the change to a maximum of 0.2 in the first place. DE does not wish to upset the market and owners of said rivens too much, so the changes were mostly not that significant. None of the rivens were gutted; Rubico Lanka and Tiberon were hit hard but they'll still perform similarly to before. Their prices will drop but not drastically.

Taking this in account, it was perfectly reasonable to leave Kohm rivens as they are. Nerfs to its disposition will disproportionately affect its performance and value, and in effect lead to a much larger change than a simple 0.2 adjustment. It would cause a significant drop in Kohm rivens' values and a market upset that DE did not intend for with this update. If, however, there is to be a disposition adjustment without a limit, then I fully expect DE to include Kohm in their list of nerfs. 

Also @OP that's a pretty weak showcase of the Kohm's power. A good 120% status chance riven should be significantly better.

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best part: Kohm doesn't need 100%(it would help...some) because of how it fires.

 

basically it's a rifle, treats status as such and uses shotgun mods....i'm too tired to lay the whole thing out.

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4 hours ago, (XB1)Orcus Imperium said:

best part: Kohm doesn't need 100%(it would help...some) because of how it fires.

 

basically it's a rifle, treats status as such and uses shotgun mods....i'm too tired to lay the whole thing out.

This is entirely false. It treats status like a shotgun does, hence why you can visibly tell the difference between 100% and non-100% SC.

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On 2018-11-09 at 9:09 AM, Ragnarok said:

? I said I supported the decision, however I laid out that I believe the decision is a rational one not simply "thank you for not nerfing my sacred cow", I think a legitimate case can be made for why it shouldn't be lowered.

I'm not talking about time or plat investment. I'm talking about usage and stat setup weighting. 

Not special from my perspective, just there is a clear difference between the weapons and their utilization with rivens. There is no stat on the arca plasmor or the lanka that will nerf it's usage by 90% if it dropped by 5-8%, this however is the case with the kohm. 

I think that if you are put into a situation where if a specific weapons riven is nerfed that it's usage would drop so drastically that it would have to be raised in the next balance, then you should make the determination that it's in a spot where it should stay.

I see your line of reasoning but honestly, if the weapon needs a riven to stabilize it shouldn't they just buff the weapons as a whole?

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On 2018-11-09 at 9:57 AM, (PS4)cleefsentence said:

Bro no offense but you're a kohm +120% riven owner right? If so, obviously you're happy 😁

We all have invested in rivens, i have friends with 200+ rolled rubico rivens. I rolled some rivens 80+ times too after so much kuva farm to burn out and leave the game for a while.

DE with this decision is making Kohm rivens and their owners specials and untouchable. This a spit in the face to all those players that worked on their plasmor/lanka/bla bla rivens as kohm owners did.

Not saying that DE can't rebalance dispositions, just to be equal.

This is hilarious on 2 levels.

A) a kohm with the right riven is arguably the most powerful weapon in the entire game but, you know, akbolto had to get nerfed.

B) see above.

If they're going to leave kohm alone they should leave the others alone too.

 

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11 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

This is hilarious on 2 levels.

A) a kohm with the right riven is arguably the most powerful weapon in the entire game but, you know, akbolto had to get nerfed.

B) see above.

If they're going to leave kohm alone they should leave the others alone too.

 

Seems that kohm grolled owners are more special to DE than any other riven owner, see DE Connor quote.

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12 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

This is hilarious on 2 levels.

A) a kohm with the right riven is arguably the most powerful weapon in the entire game but, you know, akbolto had to get nerfed.

B) see above.

If they're going to leave kohm alone they should leave the others alone too.

 

Except power isn't what they've decided to base disposition around, they chose usage and popularity. Both which would be disproportionately affected on the kohm compared to other weapons.

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9 minutes ago, (PS4)cleefsentence said:

Seems that kohm grolled owners are more special to DE than any other riven owner, see DE Connor quote.

Stop crying like you're somehow a victim. Noone is more special, I explained to you why their reasoning makes sense but you keep ignoring it and pretending like it's because of preferential treatment. Vectis and Lanka mods can go for just as much as kohm rivens, but both of them got a lowered disposition, it's likely that market cost/weapon strength had nothing to do with the decision making my explanation far more fitting.

Your behavior is honestly pathetic, thank god you aren't in control of balancing anything in this game. 

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17 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

Stop crying like you're somehow a victim. Noone is more special, I explained to you why their reasoning makes sense but you keep ignoring it and pretending like it's because of preferential treatment. Vectis and Lanka mods can go for just as much as kohm rivens, but both of them got a lowered disposition, it's likely that market cost/weapon strength had nothing to do with the decision making my explanation far more fitting.

Your behavior is honestly pathetic, thank god you aren't in control of balancing anything in this game. 

What a coincidence, i think that you're explanation is honestly pathetic.

I already proved you that DE doesn't care at all about non-usage of weapons or mods, the past nerfs of weapons like symulor and tonkor, the existence of of sh1tty weapons like the stug and the kraken that can't be saved even with a 5 dispo and no one use, the future death of maiming strike by the introduction of the melee 3.0.

DE nerf every thing that can break their game and is too powerful. If they are not changed the dispo of the kohm is because some "geniuses" purchased grolled kohm riven for 10k/20k plat, that's the only reason they want to keep the dispo of 5 on the kohm.

Kohm can reach the 100% status chance with 4 60% 60% mods, the rivens are a luxury, not a necessity. This is a FACT, not an opinion. Their reason is money-oriented and to avoid a backlash by those owners, if you can't understand something so simple well... so sad for you.

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I'd just like to say their riven disposition changes on the castanas messed up my build. I used a -dmg castanas riven with + status to trigger myself to burn (it had very low damage total, just enough to trigger burn effects on my ember to give myself mana). Now its been changed the numbers are no longer low enough to keep my build viable. Sucks. Feels bad. Wasnt even using it for anything crazy op. Unlimited energy on ember is kinda OP i guess? not really.

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