garuda unfinished frame

[BeeWhyOhBee]

12 hours ago, Xyhon said:

Lol, mate, she drops like a fly in higher content. And it is thanks to zero dr during attack and its animation during both 1 and 2, so don't bS#&$ us about "you do something wrong". Also, can be stunlocked to oblivion, which is another glitch thanks to animations being uncancelable upon landing/casting. This is hardly berserker/bloodletter, Valkyr still holds this title.

4+1 is slow. Too slow to keep up with Saryn/Equinox, even Atlas with range slide build or Nidus with max range larva does more dps. And yes, I am including Natural Talent into that equation.

u dont need Natural Talent, again - replace it with Steel Fiber, that's it. And maybe the 'higher content' youve been doin is what? Lvl6000 enemies? i tried her on higher level content - sortie 3s and even higher and longer arbitration content, and ESO runs and it works well. "you're doing something wrong" - i stand by it. You dont press 4 and stand still, are your fingers that fat and you cant even perform multiple rolls while casting it?

'stunlocked to oblivion' ? when did that happen? i think this usually happens in Orb Vallis while farming Toroids with maxed alerts, or sorties with Eximus Stronghold and u got stunlocked by multiple eximus mobs = which kills not just her but all frames if you got caught in it -- otherwise, i rarely get knocked down, again

too slow with what? dps? her skills are not dps, what the hell are you talking about? If you want dps frame then stick to your Saryn or Equinox, her 4th skill is a debuff that causes slash procs and makes your damage turn into slash on marked enemies it doesnt need ran

 

2 minutes ago, Sorrode said:

yeah yeah yeah every frame is survivable if you keep dodging and stay distance, but did you think about that her 1 and 2 eliminates the distance and her 4 kills her momentum?

dash in with 1st skill, press back and shift do dodge back, reposition yourself press 2. The heal scales with your current HP missing, unless you dont put Vitality then your HP will be what? 300?

[BeeWhyOhBee]

1 minute ago, Sorrode said:

yeah yeah yeah, put a lot of effort to stay alive, for a damn pitiful 100% extra damage and some slash proc that only helps when you are fighting enemies that can one shot you, so smart.

do you know what is Banshee?

then dont use Garuda. Plain and simple. You suck at it, its okay.

the same way i dont use Chroma or any other meta frames because i just dont like them

Edited November 17, 2018 by BeeWhyOhBee

[Sorrode]

On 2018-11-15 at 12:02 PM, DonOctavia said:

i ve played her several hours, have 6 forma on her and wached some videos on youtube about her, first i ve to say she is a good warframe and IF u know how to play her she is realy fun to play - from the description of the frame and her abilities u will never know what she can do and how to play her

as she is for now she is balanced
she needs some fixes - like a grey HP bar or at least a dmg reduction buff while performing her 1, her 2 and 3 animation can kill her under enemy fire even with a runing mirror
her abilities are realy good, i ve to correct my first post 
i think she can be one of my favorite frames 😍

DE dont forget to fix  not just for this frame 

yeah yeah yeah all frames are good and survivable if you stack survivability mods on it, how about making her not rely on good weapons

[Sorrode]

Just now, BeeWhyOhBee said:

then dont use Garuda. Plain and simple. You suck at it, its okay.

the same way i dont use Chroma or any other meta frames because i just dont like them

I suck at it? did you read the reply I posted?

[Sorrode]

3 minutes ago, BeeWhyOhBee said:

then dont use Garuda. Plain and simple. You suck at it, its okay.

the same way i dont use Chroma or any other meta frames because i just dont like them

Tell me, pro, how you use your Garuda
 

9 minutes ago, Sorrode said:

Garuda has good synergy on paper but none in actual gameplay.

Her 3 reduces her health which synergizes with her passive, yet destroyed by her 2 which heals her.

Say you don't use 2 and stay on low health, the damn tiny shield of her 1 definitely won't keep her alive, especially when you jump into enemies to get the shield up

Say you use your 4 to CC the enemies before you jump in, and manage to get out alive, you still is stunk at range with a pitiful sized shield and a mere 200% damage buff to your weapons and a 4 that takes forever to charge up and be used on enemy

Basically you do a lot of work, stay at 2hp to get 100% extra damage and a tiny little shield, the 4's slash might be useful to bypass enemy's armor at high level, however if you are using bad weapons, the 100% extra damage won't help you kill the enemy even you get 100% slash, and if you got a good weapon, you won't need the 100% extra damage nor the slash proc

Another play style

Say you use her 2 to cover an area, modded for survivability, yes you won't die, however her passive becomes useless as you will stay at almost full health and you won't be able to use her 4 as you would be so close to the enemy that by the time you charge up her 4 to cover all enemy you would have killed them all with your melee.

Basically a tank with a small area of heal for melee teammates, with a 4 that is useless and a 1 thats also useless(as you won't need the shield and you melee surely will kill faster than you charging the ability and way faster if you say to cast her 4 before her 1.

[BeeWhyOhBee]

1 minute ago, Sorrode said:

I suck at it? did you read the reply I posted?

no i didnt. If you dont suck at it, still.. no one is forcing you. Again  as i said 'For me' it is a good frame, the same way how Khora is in a good position now

 

4 minutes ago, Sorrode said:

yeah yeah yeah all frames are good and survivable if you stack survivability mods on it, how about making her not rely on good weapons

and what is with you players and your basis on setting up your frames, weapons and playstyle? so you go to a high level, 20-hour survival without defensive mods and unmodded weapons? That is just ridiculous

[BeeWhyOhBee]

2 minutes ago, Sorrode said:

Tell me, pro, how you use your Garuda
 

i already explained it. Im not repeating myself. Go back 1 page, i explained it there. And just because i know how to use her properly makes me a 'pro' now?

Edited November 17, 2018 by BeeWhyOhBee

[Sorrode]

12 minutes ago, Sorrode said:

Another play style

Say you use her 2 to cover an area, modded for survivability, yes you won't die, however her passive becomes useless as you will stay at almost full health and you won't be able to use her 4 as you would be so close to the enemy that by the time you charge up her 4 to cover all enemy you would have killed them all with your melee.

Basically a tank with a small area of heal for melee teammates, with a 4 that is useless and a 1 thats also useless(as you won't need the shield and you melee surely will kill faster than you charging the ability and way faster if you say to cast her 4 before her 1.

Forgot to mention Garuda is only tanky IF she is inside her small small tiny healing blood alter, she is no way comparable to Inaros nor Nidus nor any tank frame

[BeeWhyOhBee]

3 minutes ago, Sorrode said:

Forgot to mention Garuda is only tanky IF she is inside her small small tiny healing blood alter, she is no way comparable to Inaros nor Nidus nor any tank frame

gotta agree, the range of her 2nd skill is small. But if you looked closely you can stack it up to 3x, it heals pretty fast with just 1, i rarely got into a situation where i got stuck in an area with 20x enemies and doin nothing.

not to mention the enemies shoot the damn thing (the impaled target)

[Sorrode]

19 hours ago, BeeWhyOhBee said:

... prooobably because you dont really understand how her kit works. (which what happened to me in the first place)

You press 1 and dash towards a target, collect damage at the same time

press 2, impale 1 or 2 targets. = if you still die with this, then ur doin' something wrong. The healing scales -- not just at simulacrum but also at arbitration levels (the higher HP u loose, the faster it recovers your HP) combo it up with a simple Arcane Guardian, or Adaptation, or even a basic Steel Fiber and ur fine 

press 3 to basically blood chalice yourself. how to maximize this? learn to position, you dont stand in the middle of a mob of enemies and then press 3 multiple times and then whine that you die alot. That's just stupid

press 4 - charge it up or not, it still works. You just dont know how to use it. You hit enemies (get 220 STR for it to proc 100%) with slash procs, and while they're having stunned animation, hold 1st skill (which i assume you got alot of damage stored in it) then release, then press 1 again to reacquire the shields, press 2 for healing

how long do you press jump + charge 1st or 4th skill while airborne / or dash to acquire shield + double shift backwards to dodge away ? its not really that hard

saying she is an unfinished frame because you suck at it and die alot.
you have a ton of ways for survival besides mods -- dodging (double shift + directional button), airborne dps reduction, a simple Transference and then void dash away from enemies.
Having a ton of STR and all offensive mods without any option for defense 'because you get one-shotted anyway' is a failed logic. Put Arcane Guardian, or a simple Steel Fiber and you're fine.

For me, i think this is the most 'hard-to-work-around' frame and its fine, im currently enjoying her. Im really tired of the old frames havin' only 1 skill active and then using the same sh!!t tactic allover and over again -- which doesnt work anymore on the Fortuna content because you can't get near the enemies haphazardly.

Wanting her to be buffed/nerfed because you dont understand it is just --  asking her to be reworked and then shelved like other old frames that you dont really use anymore.

You mean this? I'm asking you did you read THIS: 

 

15 minutes ago, Sorrode said:

Garuda has good synergy on paper but none in actual gameplay.

Her 3 reduces her health which synergizes with her passive, yet destroyed by her 2 which heals her.

Say you don't use 2 and stay on low health, the damn tiny shield of her 1 definitely won't keep her alive, especially when you jump into enemies to get the shield up

Say you use your 4 to CC the enemies before you jump in, and manage to get out alive, you still is stunk at range with a pitiful sized shield and a mere 200% damage buff to your weapons and a 4 that takes forever to charge up and be used on enemy

Basically you do a lot of work, stay at 2hp to get 100% extra damage and a tiny little shield, the 4's slash might be useful to bypass enemy's armor at high level, however if you are using bad weapons, the 100% extra damage won't help you kill the enemy even you get 100% slash, and if you got a good weapon, you won't need the 100% extra damage nor the slash proc

Another play style

Say you use her 2 to cover an area, modded for survivability, yes you won't die, however her passive becomes useless as you will stay at almost full health and you won't be able to use her 4 as you would be so close to the enemy that by the time you charge up her 4 to cover all enemy you would have killed them all with your melee.

Basically a tank with a small area of heal for melee teammates, with a 4 that is useless and a 1 thats also useless(as you won't need the shield and you melee surely will kill faster than you charging the ability and way faster if you say to cast her 4 before her 1.

You think you know how to use Garuda properly because you stack a lot of survivability mods on her and jump around like a Banshee for her 100% bonus damage and a few slash proc?

You use 4 on enemies that your 1 can insta kill make you pro? or you use 1 on enemies to kill them losing your shield and let other enemies to one shot you make you pro

[Sorrode]

Basically what I say is:

Using 4 makes using 1 bad because you are only going to use 4 on enemy that is high level, by using 1 you lose your shield and die

Using 1 makes your 4 useless because you arn't going get benefit from it assuming you have an E key

Making 2 also makes your 4 useless because you arn't going to proc all enemies when you are in middle of them, you can use 1 to kill enemy but if you are so close just press E

[BeeWhyOhBee]

1 minute ago, Sorrode said:

You mean this? I'm asking you did you read THIS: 

 

You think you know how to use Garuda properly because you stack a lot of survivability mods on her and jump around like a Banshee for her 100% bonus damage and a few slash proc?

You use 4 on enemies that your 1 can insta kill make you pro? or you use 1 on enemies to kill them losing your shield and let other enemies to one shot you make you pro

the fact that you use that 1st skill to 'insta kill' makes me laugh because thats not how i really do it. But then again thats how you play it. It works for me on my end, dunno how you do it. What im worried is you constantly whining (all who says she needs a rework) and DE actually listening to this stupidity and nerfing/reworking the frame and rendering it useless because you dont know how to use it

[BeeWhyOhBee]

1 minute ago, Sorrode said:

Basically what I say is:

Using 4 makes using 1 bad because you are only going to use 4 on enemy that is high level, by using 1 you lose your shield and die

Using 1 makes your 4 useless because you arn't going get benefit from it assuming you have an E key

Making 2 also makes your 4 useless because you arn't going to proc all enemies when you are in middle of them, you can use 1 to kill enemy but if you are so close just press E

 -

Using 4 makes using 1 bad because you are only going to use 4 on enemy that is high level, by using 1 you lose your shield and die
   - you 1 hit low level content with it (build it with 200+STR, 3 umbral mods and Transient Fortitude), and you proc slash + stun + deal other damage source with slash on higher level ones 

 - 1 is a shield. I know combo'ing it with 4 is a fun show off of damage. But i dont really think thats how its primarily used, but yea sure, have fun. Also E? Melee? I rarely do melee nowadays, im doin' fine.

 - how is 2 making her 4th useless?

[Sorrode]

Just now, BeeWhyOhBee said:

the fact that you use that 1st skill to 'insta kill' makes me laugh because thats not how i really do it. But then again thats how you play it. It works for me on my end, dunno how you do it. What im worried is you constantly whining (all who says she needs a rework) and DE actually listening to this stupidity and nerfing/reworking the frame and rendering it useless because you dont know how to use it

Whinning only makes improvement as if DE break it when reworking it there will only be more whinning

If you only use her 1 for the shield, it is not called synergy, if you use your 1 but don't insta kill enemy with it, you are wasting your shield, if the enemy can't be insta killed and needs 4 to kill, by using 1 you lose your shield and you will be dead by the time the enemy bleed to death, you just stacked enough survivability mods to a point you don't need the 1 to start with

[Sorrode]

Just now, BeeWhyOhBee said:

 - how is 2 making her 4th useless?

her 2 limits you to it's area, meaning you are at close range with the enemies, so you will have to fully charge the 4 to proc all enemies, by the time you charge it you would have killed them with the melee

[--Banshee]

On 2018-11-15 at 8:55 AM, Xyhon said:

Do indulge me, HOW and what levels are you playing against? She is not Arbitrations viable in current state, because she is much more squishy than any other frame which has a solid DR.

What are you talking about? She is absolutely arbitration viable... You must be doing something fundamentally wrong with Garuda. You are either modding entirely wrong, or simply not using her kit effectively.

[--Banshee]

1 hour ago, Sorrode said:

her 2 limits you to it's area, meaning you are at close range with the enemies, so you will have to fully charge the 4 to proc all enemies, by the time you charge it you would have killed them with the melee

That isn't what her 4 is used for... You use Garuda's 4 to open on a Nox or any other enemy that you realize will take more than a SINGLE BULLET/STRIKE from ANY WEAPON.

[Sorrode]

1 minute ago, --Banshee said:

That isn't what her 4 is used for... You use Garuda's 4 to open on a Nox or any other enemy that you realize will take more than a SINGLE BULLET/STRIKE from ANY WEAPON.

So you are not using her 4 except when you see something with DR? like only Nox? a ability for a single type of enemy? with 57 meter range and infinite target number? are you kidding me? also do you know what is called synergy?

[--Banshee]

1 hour ago, Sorrode said:

Whinning only makes improvement as if DE break it when reworking it there will only be more whinning

If you only use her 1 for the shield, it is not called synergy, if you use your 1 but don't insta kill enemy with it, you are wasting your shield, if the enemy can't be insta killed and needs 4 to kill, by using 1 you lose your shield and you will be dead by the time the enemy bleed to death, you just stacked enough survivability mods to a point you don't need the 1 to start with

What in S#&$ are you going on about? The way you described trying to play with Garuda makes it instantly apparent that you have 0 clue how to mod or even play Garuda, or even your weapons for that matter.

If you use her 1 for the shield, that is exactly what it is for. If you don't insta-kill the enemy, boo-hoo, then shoot it ONE time with ANYTHING and it is dead. You didn't at all waste the shield, you still have it protecting you from other enemies in front of you.

Next, you said, "if an enemy can't be insta-killed and needs 4 to kill", just LOL. You really have no idea how to mod at all. If something doesn't die from her 1, than tap it with any weapon and it's dead, no need for her 4 at all. And definitely not a 4->1 wam bam thank you mam. The 4->1 wam bam thank you mam is for enemies like Nox, something that you know will take a little bit of a beating anyways. And they don't even REALLY need the 1, the 4 and any weapon is enough. 

Lastly, "lose your shield", "dead by the time the enemy bleed to death", WHAT? Your shield is entirely duration based, you don't "lose it". And you most definitely don't just "bleed to death". 

And really what is all of this about "survivability mods"? She really just needs Vitality and Steel Fiber, just like any other frame. Adaptation for good measure and she is nigh unkillable. And with those three mods I still manage to hit 200% strength, and buff range and efficiency.

 

Trust me guy. You are doing something wrong.

[Sorrode]

5 minutes ago, --Banshee said:

What in S#&$ are you going on about? The way you described trying to play with Garuda makes it instantly apparent that you have 0 clue how to mod or even play Garuda, or even your weapons for that matter.

If you use her 1 for the shield, that is exactly what it is for. If you don't insta-kill the enemy, boo-hoo, then shoot it ONE time with ANYTHING and it is dead. You didn't at all waste the shield, you still have it protecting you from other enemies in front of you.

Next, you said, "if an enemy can't be insta-killed and needs 4 to kill", just LOL. You really have no idea how to mod at all. If something doesn't die from her 1, than tap it with any weapon and it's dead, no need for her 4 at all. And definitely not a 4->1 wam bam thank you mam. The 4->1 wam bam thank you mam is for enemies like Nox, something that you know will take a little bit of a beating anyways. And they don't even REALLY need the 1, the 4 and any weapon is enough. 

Lastly, "lose your shield", "dead by the time the enemy bleed to death", WHAT? Your shield is entirely duration based, you don't "lose it". And you most definitely don't just "bleed to death". 

And really what is all of this about "survivability mods"? She really just needs Vitality and Steel Fiber, just like any other frame. Adaptation for good measure and she is nigh unkillable. And with those three mods I still manage to hit 200% strength, and buff range and efficiency.

 

Trust me guy. You are doing something wrong.

Did you even play her, the shield disappear when you cast 1, WTF are you drunk?

[Sorrode]

8 minutes ago, --Banshee said:

Next, you said, "if an enemy can't be insta-killed and needs 4 to kill", just LOL. You really have no idea how to mod at all. If something doesn't die from her 1, than tap it with any weapon and it's dead, no need for her 4 at all. And definitely not a 4->1 wam bam thank you mam. The 4->1 wam bam thank you mam is for enemies like Nox, something that you know will take a little bit of a beating anyways. And they don't even REALLY need the 1, the 4 and any weapon is enough. 

Are you those people who think Opticor can one shot a level 100 heavy gunner?

[Sorrode]

9 minutes ago, --Banshee said:

And really what is all of this about "survivability mods"? She really just needs Vitality and Steel Fiber, just like any other frame. Adaptation for good measure and she is nigh unkillable. And with those three mods I still manage to hit 200% strength, and buff range and efficiency.

What are you fighting, level 60 enemy? Did you ever get one shot by a Bombard?

[Xyhon]

1 hour ago, --Banshee said:

What are you talking about? She is absolutely arbitration viable... You must be doing something fundamentally wrong with Garuda. You are either modding entirely wrong, or simply not using her kit effectively.

Yeah right. That's why I see so many dead Garudas all around. And no, Simulacrum is not a "real experience test".

[Sorrode]

6 minutes ago, Xyhon said:

Yeah right. That's why I see so many dead Garudas all around. And no, Simulacrum is not a "real experience test".

Off topic but, dunning kruger effect

[Xyhon]

3 hours ago, BeeWhyOhBee said:

u dont need Natural Talent, again - replace it with Steel Fiber, that's it. And maybe the 'higher content' youve been doin is what? Lvl6000 enemies? i tried her on higher level content - sortie 3s and even higher and longer arbitration content, and ESO runs and it works well. "you're doing something wrong" - i stand by it. You dont press 4 and stand still, are your fingers that fat and you cant even perform multiple rolls while casting it?

'stunlocked to oblivion' ? when did that happen? i think this usually happens in Orb Vallis while farming Toroids with maxed alerts, or sorties with Eximus Stronghold and u got stunlocked by multiple eximus mobs = which kills not just her but all frames if you got caught in it -- otherwise, i rarely get knocked down, again

too slow with what? dps? her skills are not dps, what the hell are you talking about? If you want dps frame then stick to your Saryn or Equinox, her 4th skill is a debuff that causes slash procs and makes your damage turn into slash on marked enemies it doesnt need ran

 

dash in with 1st skill, press back and shift do dodge back, reposition yourself press 2. The heal scales with your current HP missing, unless you dont put Vitality then your HP will be what? 300?

She is not group friendly, she has limited vision with her 4, low surv chance going into melee, and yes, considering 4 + 1 is a damage combo, you can see why I list her as DPS viable frame. After tweaks. Also. Putting marks with some short CC even without slash procs without charge time in aoe circle or just a CONE would be much better than that clunky LINE that often leads to missed enemies on screen which continue to tear your ass up because you just launched your shield as a projectile. This whole design is stupid to start with - you can loose shield because timer runs out, but blood globe is still there. So why not just make shield totally unaffected by blood globe, or go with a true vampire like theme.

You skip the point that not everyone likes to put every defensive mod onto a frame and account it for being nigh unkillable this way. I get better effects because of hard CC with Khora than Garuda, and still outperform her damage with Whip. Not to mention, hard CC is good for a group. Also - I can get Garuda OP by just QT with PFlow and Rage. But, whatever.

And about stunlocks, no, I mean normal gameplay, when you are stuck at animation, because DE CBA to bugcheck triggers, and make unskipable frames that must play. It begins to show greatly if you try to go full melee with Garuda - which those big ass CLAWS she has imply as useful. 

Also, I can survive with her just fine, it's just her kit is so mediocre, makes me go back to Khora or Nezha now.