Got enough knockbacks there, fortuna?

[GPrime96]

I tried testing the Knockbacks in Orb Vallis with Valkyr's Hysteria and Valkyr isn't affected by the shockwaves from the enemies so she's one of those Frames that can deal with the knockbacks but only with Hysteria.

[TheGrimCorsair]

Haven't really had any trouble with knockdowns with Banshee as Silence easily handles everything but mortars which you can just not stand around to get hit by.

[DoomFruit]

4 hours ago, HUNDarkTemplar said:

Yeh and thats the point. People want challange, but they complain about the scaling, but what other options DE have? Invulnerability ( everyone hates it me included ). knocks, nullifiers etc... People complain about them too. How can they make the game difficult if enemies cant be strong? Its not Rainbow 6 siege, cs go or some wow raid. They cant overcomplicate It and even, If the AI would be really smart, the game would still be pretty easy, because half the warframes just need to push a button and a room of enemies dies.

The whole root of this problem lies in corrupted mods. Take away fleeting expertise, overextended, etc. and the vast majority of balance issues will completely disappear. The only reason this game caught nullicancer was because highly minmaxed powers could be spammed. Yet for some reason, DE didn't take the obvious, simple and effective method and now we've ended up with this ridiculous mess of annoyance units.

[DeMonkey]

30 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

The whole root of this problem lies in corrupted mods.

Not often I see someone else saying this.

I agree wholeheartedly, if DE want to balance the game and give us functionally challenging content, then that balance needs to start with us.

Unfortunately though, the playerbase will never let it happen.

[Okami_Amaterasu]

The Trenchers are the worst things. They launch you into orbit no matter what and then jump straight at you again and again, interrupting reloads at every possible moment.

 

I guess this is what it feels like to be an enemy getting CC'd.

[DYSEQTA]

11 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

I actually love it. For once I'm using dodges effectively, unlike in the rest of the game in which you can stand there like a potato and just absorb everything that gets dealt to you.

People ask for challenge, but that challenge seemingly can't be:

1. Making enemies into bullet sponges.
2. Making enemies deal ridiculous damage.
3. New enemies with new attacks and new mechanics that are able to lock us down if we're not careful.

So challenge in Warframe somehow has to be the exact same cookie cutter enemies that we're currently fighting, dealing the exact same damage as they are now... forever? I don't think DE have a lot to go on quite frankly.

QFT. There it is right there. 1 and 2 both deserve the scorn they receive but 3, 3 is where it should be. I enjoy being made to stay alert and be aware of what's going on around me rather than just mindlessly mowing down hordes struggling to keep my eyes open without a fear or care in the world.

[DYSEQTA]

Just now, Okami_Shiranui said:

The Trenchers are the worst things. They launch you into orbit no matter what and then jump straight at you again and again, interrupting reloads at every possible moment.

 

I guess this is what it feels like to be an enemy getting CC'd.

So adapt. Don't reload, swap weapon instead. Reload when you can.

[Lost_Cartographer]

5 hours ago, DYSEQTA said:

So adapt. Don't reload, swap weapon instead. Reload when you can.

And then when you can't reload that weapon?

Look, I'm all for real challenging enemies - it's why I'm in total support of nullifiers canceling our abilities and scorpions/ancient hook lines staying in game, and the finally edited Grineer commander performing a little jig to show he's switch teleporting us (seriously, WTF is he doin'!?) which results in knocking us down, not the old and weird "huh!?" animation that took a full 2-3 seconds to complete.  There are Lynx variants that can use conal elemental abilities, and that's freaking cool!  I get got in that knock off frost wave, I'll get slowed, and that's totally fair! 

I can support there being an enemy that can hit us with a stun or knockback, but MANY of the enemies in the Vallis have stuns and knock backs.  Lotus, there's a Moa that launches a pile of sticky mines that will keep you airborne for a good few seconds if they stick to you.  Sentinels get roasted alive because of all the AoE.  And if the Trenchers start wailing on you, it's the old Grineer flame blade all over again - stun locked until either they knock you out of their attack range or you die unable to do anything. 

It's one thing for mods like handspring and pain threshold be good options to help in scenarios where you might get caught (hooks, shockwave Moas, heavy ground pound, etc) it's another when it feels mandatory because the sheer volume of attacks coming your way means taking one means taking a long chain of them.  It's akin to facing an army of frost eximus nullifiers.  Shields upon shields upon shields, and you can only hope you can drop enough of them to pick a few nullifiers off before the earlier ones you broke recharge.

You know what I'd like to see?  A Moa that deploys a dome shield akin to a frost globe, or just a big frontal shield like the Valis Raptor that we couldn't just gun through.  I'd appreciate it if a melee enemy with a high attack speed DIDN'T stagger us on every swing, or they only swung so many times then "rested" before attacking again (the latter I prefer as it encourages the mod pain threshold.)  I'd love for turrets to be a bit more bulky and more noticeable, less wire frame.  They're annoying to shoot at.  Keep the EMP though - it's a great threat to keep an eye out for and definitely gets me to scoot when I see that tell tale blue beam on my Warframe.  That's what good enemy design does; It forces me to react and gives me a chance to.

And you know what's worse about all this knock back?  It only hurts the people NOT abusing AoE powers.  The people spamming AoE CC won't deal with this crap as often because the enemy can't do anything.  So you know... if the goal was to push me towards a range/duration build on Excalibur, congratulations DE, you succeeded?  Kinda don't want to shoot unreactive and docile target dummies though...

Overall, this update has shown DE is trying to provide us a variety of threats, but it's clear there's a little too much stun power going on.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Littleman88

[Bombarder0]

Jesus stop complaining or fortuna gonna get easy af like POE

[Learicorn]

They should at least make it so resisted knockbacks don't interrupt reload :T Not even about Fortuna but the game as a whole

Really annoying when i resist cc with [Negate] just to have my reload interrupted anyways because ????

[Tyreaus]

I like the bounce-around far more than any knockdown. Getting grappled by a Grineer Scorpion, e.g., is an exercise in "wait for the Warframe to get up again", however much you've modded against it. With stuff like this, there remains a heavy incentive not to get yourself in that kind of trouble, but you're still able to fight with it. Been more than a few times I've been launched skyward just to slam a Gram down on someone's head.

Having it interrupt reloading starts getting onto the "knockdown annoyance" territory, though, and I'm not a fan of that. And that's coming from one who hasn't even had that issue personally, since I like running Gram P, Vectis, and Akstiletto.

[kingvaldemir]

Quite the contrary with the OP, I really like with the enemies in orb vallis. They offer some challenges that PoE fails to deliver. I have to keep moving, and sometimes theres a medium to big spider that can't be defeated using mesa's ult, which is great.

Is it troublesome? yeah maybe, but i think this really suits the game. Players has high mobility and that actually is one of our power, so... Time to put it into a good use. Don't stand in one spot, keep moving and change weapon. Adapt to the situation.

Like the operator says "we need to strike and move!"

[Alaeacus]

Earlier I was soloing a 3 star bounties and while trying to stand by containers to pick them up, enemies were bouncing me around like a pinball.  It wasn't really doing damage, just frustrating the hell out of me lol.  

Edited November 11, 2018 by AlMcFly

[TheFizzWizz]

Ok, I understand that adding CC into the game acts as a sort of 'artificial difficulty' and while I'm not 100% on board with it, I understand why they do this.

What I'm NOT ok with WHATSOEVER is being caught reloading, pinned to the wall by a Trencher below the Temple and then LITERALLY CC'ED TO DEATH WITH NO HOPES OF FIGHTING BACK. CC done right can work.

I noticed VERY quickly that what made Orb Vallis so difficult for me at first wasn't the strength of the enemies, but rather by numbers and use of terrain. Obviously a few enemies here or there with a CC ability is fine but when you've amassed a hoard of enemies for grinding and at least 70% of them can CC you in one way or another ON TOP of all the aerial strikes coming down at you from a massive spider or base turrets makes for a very unfun and annoying fight. Every time I want to grind on the Vallis I take Nidus and pray to the void I can out CC the enemy cause the void forbid I take a second to reload.

[DeMonkey]

7 minutes ago, SonicsBoom91 said:

Ok, I understand that adding CC into the game acts as a sort of 'artificial difficulty'

It does not, it's 'actual difficulty'. 

QWOP and Getting Over It are examples of artificial difficulty, in that the difficulty comes from poor controls. Civilian vehicles in GTA arguably provide some form of artificial difficulty as well, in that they aren't intended to provide difficulty, but will randomly cut you off or spin you out when you're busy doing other things.

In fact, an in-game example would be enemy scaling. Scaling enemy levels infinitely is artificial difficulty. Giving them new mechanics, new attacks and CC effects is the first real difficulty we've gotten in awhile.

[---UMBRA---]

В 10.11.2018 в 04:47, Dallyoop сказал:

In the new Fortuna open area I feel like a god damn pin ball. It's almost impossible to reload because the reload is always being interrupted by one knock back or another. 

DE, please tone it down by about... ohhh... 90%, please and thanks!

No, it is absolutely nice. If you want to reduce it just use correct mods .

Edited November 11, 2018 by ---UMBRA---

[TheFizzWizz]

5 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

It does not, it's 'actual difficulty'. 

QWOP and Getting Over It are examples of artificial difficulty, in that the difficulty comes from poor controls. Civilian vehicles in GTA arguably provide some form of artificial difficulty as well, in that they aren't intended to provide difficulty, but will randomly cut you off or spin you out when you're busy doing other things.

In fact, an in-game example would be enemy scaling. Scaling enemy levels infinitely is artificial difficulty. Giving them new mechanics, new attacks and CC effects is the first real difficulty we've gotten in awhile.

I have to HEAVILY disagree. When measuring difficulty in gaming, it's easy to look at character with CC abilities and say 'lol just go around it' as if that is supposed to actually prove that someone has skill.

Back when I first fought Vay Hek years ago, I felt a real sense of accomplishment and skill when I came up triumphant. His small hit box, insane mobility and rather decent dps as well as armies of ads and the rocky terrain of the Earth tile sets proved to be a challenge to a new player like me at the time. When I beat him it felt fair and it felt like I beat him out of sheer skill, not out of cheese (except when his AI would bug out and he'd get caught on walls then I kinda felt bad for him). Even when he'd use his energy drain ability, I never felt cheated as I'd never really need to use my abilities to actively damage him (with the warframe I had at the time).

When I fight and beat enemies in the Vallis I don't feel accomplished because I don't feel challenged. Removing my ability to fight back (aka CC) is NOT the same as actually fighting me. Yes, I'm aware that tactically speaking, removing my ability to fight is a valid strategy in war. But this isn't war, it's a video game. If your idea of 'challenge' is to 'remove your players ability to fight back' when the entire premise of the game is to actively grow in strength as a player and vastly out match your enemy means that you've got to rework how you approach the way you do it.

I realize that there are plenty of other parts of Warframe that have CC central enemies (Ancients, Leapers, Scorpians and Eximus enemies), and that's fine. But for the most part, you come across these enemies in moderation and usually not in massive groups. But in the Vallis, almost every enemy type has some sort of knock-back ability they can spring on you.

[Talinthis]

I just press 3 on nezha and all my problems go away 

[DeMonkey]

11 minutes ago, SonicsBoom91 said:

I have to HEAVILY disagree. When measuring difficulty in gaming, it's easy to look at character with CC abilities and say 'lol just go around it' as if that is supposed to actually prove that someone has skill.

That can be applied to any form of difficulty ever then.

Sponge? Lol, just shoot it a bit longer.

Telegraphed attack? Lol, just dodge it.

Frantic Quicktime event? Lol, just spam every button and eat your controller.

The fact remains though, that these new enemies actually provide difficulty. Not in,

11 minutes ago, SonicsBoom91 said:

Removing my ability to fight back

but by giving you things to avoid. By keeping mobile and thinking about your positioning you can avoid the majority of the CC. That is the challenge, with a CC effect being the punishment for failing said challenge. The CC is not the challenge itself.

If you are finding that they're "completely" removing your ability to fight back, you're not playing well enough. Sorry to say but it's really as simple as that.

And if you're being hyperbolic about your inability to fight back, then you have your answer already. Whatever you're doing that allows you to fight back, do that more.

Edited November 11, 2018 by DeMonkey

[Dallyoop]

1 hour ago, ---UMBRA--- said:

No, it is absolutely nice. If you want to reduce it just use correct mods .

Looks like someone didn't read the thread. First off, the "correct" mods you mentioned, don't work. You get stuck in a block animation that is almost worse than the pinball effect, or handspring which doesn't do anything to help either. Second, unless you have a shield warframe like Rhino or Nehza, you will get knocked around like crazy, even Atlas with his passive doesn't work. So excuse me when I say, I don't think you know what you are talking about. The "correct" mods, aren't doing their job. If I'm on atlas, I shouldn't even notice those guys jumping around me, that's the whole point of his passive in the first place. One of the few characters I haven't tried in there is Limbo, and that's just because... corpus.

 

Really what would fix a lot of the issue is if the player character eventually became temporarily immune to the knock back effect (if it occurs rapidly within a short time frame), just for a second or two so players can literally get their feet back under them and deal with the enemies or get some distance on them to reload and take them out. But I think that should be implemented for players against ALL CC. It's not fun fighting the grineer and being yanked around by the scorpions much either.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Dallyoop

[N64Gamefreak]

Loki with 265%+ range and Irradiating Disarm works well, too...

[Reifnir]

On 2018-11-10 at 4:04 AM, Sai7 said:

Nope. won't help (much), I tried. Vast majority of Valis knockbacks ignore Primed Sure Footed. You don't get knocked DOWN, but you still get to bounce around and lose your reload time. 

This mod needs a serious BUFF to be viable in Valis. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Reifnir

[TheResult]

I kept seeing people talking about "knockdowns/CC" in Fortuna and thought it "must have just been the high-level enemies" because I hadn't been noticing it.

Then I realized it's because I main Nezha and I just ignore all forms of knockdown/CC anyway.

🤷‍♂️

[nerfinator6]

On 2018-11-10 at 12:25 PM, Saravind said:

the moa hybrid thing... that stick you with like 10 gravity nades and launch you into orbit at random directions is just insane... even worse indoors cant see a damn thing lol

It's like those troll-vauban builds that just cover you in bounce pads, except these ones actually kill you

[Jivy]

what did i just join to