Is Garuda, insulting to Religion? (closed, questions answered)

[General_Durandal]

We have frames like Loki, the trickster, and Titania the Fairy Queen,
somewhat Oberon, (but is more holy paladin then druid fairy king)
and then Garuda comes in, with nothing from it's myth correct.

Wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garuda

In irl myth, Garuda is the King of Birds in Hindu, Buddhist and Jain mythology.

He is the "personification of courage", 
"one who is fast, who can shapeshift into any form and enter anywhere."
"whose wing flapping can stop the spinning of heaven, earth and hell."
"Garuda has roots in the verb gri, or speak."
"He is a metaphor in the Vedic literature for Rik (rhythms), Saman (sounds), Yajna(sacrifices), and the atman (Self, deepest level of consciousness)"
"a literal embodiment of the idea, and the Self who attached to and inseparable from the Supreme Self (Vishnu)"

I'm not a Buddhist, or recognize myself as a part of any one religion,
but I respect all religions, and I see the Warframe Garuda as somewhat insulting.

Now, yes, I understand that just because the warframe is named Garuda, doesn't mean it's based off of the God named Garuda.
There was that one guy named Garuda from Street Fighter, who was also bloody, and spiky, so maybe that's where the idea came from?

But still, there are other frames, based off other mythological characters, so for someone like me,
the first thing I think about with something new is, is it based off a myth, or something else?

If anyone knows where the idea for the bloody warframe Garuda came from, plz share the info.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

EDIT - Post closed, questions have been answered.

Is it insulting to religion?
Yes, but only to those easily offended,
so not vary many.
A few peeps directly said they where not offended by it.

Where did the idea of a bloody Garuda come from?
When Garuda was born, he ate a lot of people and even some of Vishnu Hari's arm flesh.

Sorry to all the peeps that thought I was just some troll or whatever.

Edited November 12, 2018 by General_Durandal

[DeMonkey]

Only as much as Wukong and Nezha are insulting.

Which they aren't.

Inb4 someone comes in decrying you for being offended on behalf of other people.

[(PSN)Kamranos]

To be fair, “being offended” kind of goes against Buddhism in the first place, so No I don’t think it would be deemed “offensive”.

My religion is a resurgent Ancient Egyptian, but Inaros does not offend me.

Edited November 10, 2018 by (PS4)Kamranos

[Unibot]

Too bad I can't downvote blasphemous posts. White knights - begone. Your time is gone.

[Bombarder0]

hace 50 minutos, General_Durandal dijo:

We have frames like Loki, the trickster, and Titania the Fairy Queen,
somewhat Oberon, (but is more holy paladin then druid fairy king)
and then Garuda comes in, with nothing from it's myth correct.

Wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garuda

In irl myth, Garuda is the King of Birds in Hindu, Buddhist and Jain mythology.

He is the "personification of courage", 
"one who is fast, who can shapeshift into any form and enter anywhere."
"whose wing flapping can stop the spinning of heaven, earth and hell."
"Garuda has roots in the verb gri, or speak."
"He is a metaphor in the Vedic literature for Rik (rhythms), Saman (sounds), Yajna(sacrifices), and the atman (Self, deepest level of consciousness)"
"a literal embodiment of the idea, and the Self who attached to and inseparable from the Supreme Self (Vishnu)"

I'm not a Buddhist, or recognize myself as a part of any one religion,
but I respect all religions, and I see the Warframe Garuda as somewhat insulting.

Now, yes, I understand that just because the warframe is named Garuda, doesn't mean it's based off of the God named Garuda.
There was that one guy named Garuda from Street Fighter, who was also bloody, and spiky, so maybe that's where the idea came from?

But still, there are other frames, based off other mythological characters, so for someone like me,
the first thing I think about with something new is, is it based off a myth, or something else?

If anyone knows where the idea for the bloody warframe Garuda came from, plz share the info.

Lol

Haven't you heard of these?
 

Vor = Jesus

Void = Heaven

 

[Yrkul]

Funny how, apart from certain monotheists, most followers of different faiths don't agonize over the portrayal of their deities in popular media. Even more hillarious is the tendency of a certain ideology to come up with problematisms where there are none outside their own narrative.

Unless you yourself are a devout worshipper of Garuda, the only one insulting someone here is you, by insinuating that others are too meek and powerless to speak up themselves.

And for your information, a lot of companies are using the name for anything from restaurants, pilates studios and an airline company, to recruitment companies and music creators. A quick search with your favorite search engine would tell you that. Perhaps you should start your crusade with a little more research than a Wikipedia article, and start on a very long list. And while you're at it, go bother Marvel, Neil Gaiman and a whole host of other modern media creators for their outright egregious and outright insulting use of norse mythology for a start. This (mis)use of mythology/religion and history has been going on for a long time now, and funny enough, it is only thin skinned SJWs looking for their next cause to fight for, that find it "problematic".

I'll repeat what I wrote the last time someone was raising a fuss over the use of deities in Warframe: I play games for respite from daily life. Don't drag bigotry and fights over nothing into Warframe.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Let's see...

Atlas, Titan of the Earth, physically strongest of the Greek Titans
Harrow, themed as the self-flagellating dark priest from cult-christian basis
Inaros, themed after Pharaos, god-kings of their religion
Loki, trickster immortal of the norse religions
Nekros, a literal corpse-desecrating, dead-raising Shaman
Nezha, Chinese fire god
Valkyr, norse legends of berserkers
Wukong, the monkey king of old Chinese legend
Zephyr, from the Greek god of the wind

Beyond that we have a literal medley of Pirate, Ninja and Cowboy, (Hydroid, Ash and Mesa), old English legends of banshee's and the sword Excalibur from Arthurian myth, we have a literal dominatrix theme, a stage magician, a bard, a French tactician and a multi-colour dragon.

I would honestly expect anything and everything out of this game to be taken with that pinch of 'theme is in no way connected to the actual portrayal of these things in the real world'.

If you really want to go find something that could be considered a valid argument, though, go read up on Smite and the actual problems they had with Hindu religious activists in relation to their adapted character Kali.

[Yrkul]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Kamranos said:

My religion is a resurgent Ancient Egyptian

That's actually very interesting. Are there any sources available on this? There's a resurgence of ancient religions in the west, from Asatru and Druidism to actual Helenism. I know there's a Temple of Set, but that has only casual ties to egyptian mythology, as is the case with the Temple of the Golden Dawn and many other esoteric lodges/sects. 

[(PSN)Kamranos]

4 minutes ago, Yrkul said:

That's actually very interesting. Are there any sources available on this? There's a resurgence of ancient religions in the west, from Asatru and Druidism to actual Helenism. I know there's a Temple of Set, but that has only casual ties to egyptian mythology, as is the case with the Temple of the Golden Dawn and many other esoteric lodges/sects. 

There are many resources online from a variety for egyptologists. It requires a lot of research. Like thousands of years ago, much of the religion is part of your everyday and does not require a temple. That being said, there are no large scale temples or organized places in my area. 

Set is not typically regarded as “positive” deity in ancient Egyptian. He is the god of storms and desert and often seen as a god of chaos. One of the most widely worshipped deities within that religion would be Horus.

Some Egyptian deities are currently represented in warframe: Anubis (helmet) Horus (skin) Sobek (shotgun) but they are done simply for namesake. 

[DeMonkey]

9 minutes ago, Yrkul said:

Are there any sources available on this?

Tbh, even basic Christianity can be seen as a resurgent Ancient Egyptian to some extent.

Boiled down, Eqyptians worshipped the Cheif Deity Ra, the sun god, and a lot of Christianity (primarily the stuff America is built around) can also be tied to sun worship.

The Pyramid on the dollar bill, with the "Eye of Providence" representing Gods eye on top giving off sun rays.

Last I checked the largest Obelisk (which is a symbol of Ra) in the world is in Washington DC.

The uttering of Amen at the end of a prayer appears to be highly debated, but Amun-Ra was also referred to as "Amen" so possible ties there.

I remember there being several other interesting little quirks, but they escape me at the moment.

[Yrkul]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Kamranos said:

There are many resources online from a variety for egyptologists. It requires a lot of research. Like thousands of years ago, much of the religion is part of your everyday and does not require a temple. That being said, there are no large scale temples or organized places in my area. 

Set is not typically regarded as “positive” deity in ancient Egyptian. He is the god of storms and desert and often seen as a god of chaos. One of the most widely worshipped deities within that religion would be Horus.

Some Egyptian deities are currently represented in warframe: Anubis (helmet) Horus (skin) Sobek (shotgun) but they are done simply for namesake. 

So it is more like an "ambient" cultural undertone, like norse mythology has been for many centuries in Scandinavia? We're seeing a reemergence of the religion to a more overt and active state here. Would be interesting to see if egyptian mythology would be viable and productive in a modern society. Then again, the middle east is not exactly welcoming to, ah..... religious alternatives at the moment.

[(PSN)Kamranos]

7 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Tbh, even basic Christianity can be seen as a resurgent Ancient Egyptian to some extent.

Boiled down, Eqyptians worshipped the Cheif Deity Ra, the sun god, and a lot of Christianity (primarily the stuff America is built around) can also be tied to sun worship.

The Pyramid on the dollar bill, with the "Eye of Providence" representing Gods eye on top giving off sun rays.

Last I checked the largest Obelisk (which is a symbol of Ra) in the world is in Washington DC.

The uttering of Amen at the end of a prayer appears to be highly debated, but Amun-Ra was also referred to as "Amen" so possible ties there.

I remember there being several other interesting little quirks, but they escape me at the moment.

While most of this is true...ish. Egyptian is polytheistic where different towns and cities had their own chief deity. Ra was the most known in popular media, but Horus (lesser or greater) were worshipped for longer and more widely spread across Northern Africa. 

Amun-Ra is the combining of two different deities, Ra (lord of light) and Amun (the hidden one). Combining deities was a common practice over the course of a few thousand years.

The more common shared concept is the comparison or Horus to Jesus. Many of the “similarities” are pure fiction, others are true including a small group of worshippers celebrated the birth of Horus at the end of December.

10 minutes ago, Yrkul said:

So it is more like an "ambient" cultural undertone, like norse mythology has been for many centuries in Scandinavia? We're seeing a reemergence of the religion to a more overt and active state here. Would be interesting to see if egyptian mythology would be viable and productive in a modern society. Then again, the middle east is not exactly welcoming to, ah..... religious alternatives at the moment.

Ancient people didn’t identify as it being a religion, as it was simply a part of their lives as everything was based around the general principles commonly known as Ma’at (represented by a winged female with a feather on her head) as balance, truth and morality. 

Ancient egyptian was never worshipped in the Middle East. Egypt is in North Africa. 

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Kamranos said:

While most of this is true...ish. Egyptian is polytheistic where different towns and cities had their own chief deity. Ra was the most known in popular media, but Horus (lesser or greater) were worshipped for longer and more widely spread across Northern Africa. 

Amun-Ra is the combining of two different deities, Ra (lord of light) and Amun (the hidden one). Combining deities was a common practice over the course of a few thousand years.

The more common shared concept is the comparison or Horus to Jesus. Many of the “similarities” are pure fiction, others are true including a small group of worshippers celebrated the birth of Horus at the end of December.

Mm, interesting. Wasn't aware of some of this.

Apologies if I misspoke about anything there.

[(PSN)Kamranos]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

Mm, interesting. Wasn't aware of some of this.

Apologies if I misspoke about anything there.

No worries. Much of the information is hard to find and most known stuff comes from media which has a bad habit of getting it wrong. Pretty much anything in The Mummy movies makes my eye twitch with how wrong it all is lol. I was pleasetly surprised with how  Assassins Creed Origin did with the mythology.

[Yrkul]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Kamranos said:

Ancient people didn’t identify as it being a religion, as it was simply a part of their lives as everything was based around the general principles commonly known as Ma’at (represented by a winged female with a feather on her head) as balance, truth and morality.

A lot of religions don't have the institutionalization of judeo-christian tradition. The Havamal, for example, was never viewed as an authoritative codex, but rather a collection of helpful guidelines. Daoism and Shinto, to name a few, seem to follow the same pattern to a greater or lesser degree.

Ancient egyptian was never worshipped in the Middle East. Egypt is in North Africa. 

Technically yes. However, Egypt has extensive geo-political ties to the middle east. I am happy to hear, however, that Egypt still retains its cultural distinctions.

 

 

[NinjaZeku]

Just out of curiosity, using the same source ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garuda

The Garuda is a legendary bird or bird-like creature in Hindu, Buddhist and Jain mythology.
[...] shown either in zoomorphic form (giant bird with partially open wings) or an anthropomorphic form (man with wings and some bird features)

Warframe's Garuda has huge claws stylized to look quite a bit like wings, checks out.

Garuda is invoked as a symbol of impetuous violent force, of speed, and of martial prowess.
Powerful warriors advancing rapidly on doomed foes are likened to Garuda swooping down on a serpent.
Defeated warriors are like snakes beaten down by Garuda.

That doesn't sound like Warframe's version contradicts (that part of) the source material at all, either.

India primarily uses Garuda as a martial motif

So the link of Garuda = elite warrior / protector is well established.

Indonesia uses the Garuda, called the Garuda Pancasila, as its national symbol. It is somewhat intertwined with the concept of the phoenix.

Part of Garuda's kit is about coming back from the brink of death.

It's quite possible I'm culturally insensitive but ... really, seems to me like DE did their homework here,
and Garuda is a totally acceptable name for what we ended up with.

^{_{better name than Hydroid or Gara, in any case, or the design mess that is Khora}}

[Yrkul]

25 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

It's quite possible I'm culturally insensitive but ... really, seems to me like DE did their homework here,

and Garuda is a totally acceptable name for what we ended up with.

No worries. It is just OP being silly. Remember the Nezha kerfuffle when his deluxe thunderbuns skin got released?

With a little efford, it is possible to be offended by anything.

[MudShadow]

Garuda is mythological figure. If it was a religious figure that was being depicted such as Jesus or Allah then I'm sure some people would have something negative to say about that. But complaining about Garuda would be on the same level as complaining because a game has a Succubi from Christianity or a Jinn/Djinn/Genie from Islamic Mythology. Overall that would be childish and difficult to take seriously.

Edited November 10, 2018 by MudShadow

[(PSN)psycofang]

There was a thread about this concerning Harrow.

[Bombarder0]

hace 2 horas, MudShadow dijo:

Garuda is mythological figure. If it was a religious figure that was being depicted such as Jesus or Allah then I'm sure some people would have something negative to say about that. But complaining about Garuda would be on the same level as complaining because a game has a Succubi from Christianity or a Jinn/Djinn/Genie from Islamic Mythology. Overall that would be childish and difficult to take seriously.

Vor = Jesus

lol

[Amhiel]

hace 8 horas, General_Durandal dijo:

I'm not a Buddhist, or recognize myself as a part of any one religion,
but I respect all religions, and I see the Warframe Garuda as somewhat insulting.

With all due respect: you're complaining DE didn't do their homework while you're confusing Buddhism with Hinduism in the same post. That's not helping credibility all that much... 

 

 

[General_Durandal]

7 hours ago, Bombarder0 said:

Lol

Haven't you heard of these?
 

Vor = Jesus

Void = Heaven

 

That, is very interesting.

[General_Durandal]

6 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Atlas, Titan of the Earth, physically strongest of the Greek Titans
Harrow, themed as the self-flagellating dark priest from cult-christian basis
Inaros, themed after Pharaos, god-kings of their religion
Loki, trickster immortal of the norse religions
Nekros, a literal corpse-desecrating, dead-raising Shaman
Nezha, Chinese fire god
Valkyr, norse legends of berserkers
Wukong, the monkey king of old Chinese legend
Zephyr, from the Greek god of the wind

Atlas = He didn't petrify others, he got petrified. Everything else seems fine though
Harrow = Seems fine
Inaros = Seems fine
Loki = Seems fine
Nekros = Necromancer. Shamans aren't necromancers
Nezha = Seems fine
Valkyr = Valkyrie, I guess, only similarity is being female
Wukong = Seems fine
Zephyr = Actually male, but everything else Seems fine

I see nothing wrong with any of them from a mythological or scientific stance.

Garuda = No similarities with the name's myth.

~

6 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Beyond that we have a literal medley of Pirate, Ninja and Cowboy, (Hydroid, Ash and Mesa), old English legends of banshee's and the sword Excalibur from Arthurian myth, we have a literal dominatrix theme, a stage magician, a bard, a French tactician and a multi-colour dragon.

I would honestly expect anything and everything out of this game to be taken with that pinch of 'theme is in no way connected to the actual portrayal of these things in the real world'.

If you really want to go find something that could be considered a valid argument, though, go read up on Smite and the actual problems they had with Hindu religious activists in relation to their adapted character Kali.

~

I take it you didn't read everything, because I kinda mention that, 

9 hours ago, General_Durandal said:

I understand that just because the warframe is named Garuda, doesn't mean it's based off of the God named Garuda.
There was that one guy named Garuda from Street Fighter, who was also bloody, and spiky, so maybe that's where the idea came from?

And other stuff too.

Do you know where DE got the idea for bloody clawed female Garuda?

[General_Durandal]

9 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Only as much as Wukong and Nezha are insulting.

Which they aren't.

I don't see anything wrong with either. Their themes are down-pat.
Garuda is however, not fitting the theme of the god Garuda in the slightest.
Which is why I posted this, as an over-thinker, I over-think things, and like to discus things.

They should have named her after that one Queen,
that drained the blood of beautiful young women and bathed in it,
because she though it would make her stay young.
Her passive could be a Blood Counter, kinda like Nidus's thing,
every enemy killed or hurt by a slash proc within 2 meters of her gives her 1 blood point,
and her powers would be fueled by blood instead of energy.
One of her powers would use blood to heal herself and procs.
And her 4th power could be and exalted dagger with 100% slash damage with no crit chance and high status chance.

[sixmille]

il y a 52 minutes, Bombarder0 a dit :

Vor = Jesus

lol

You mean Nekros right? Who can resurrect the dead? Who can heal any wound? Who can multiply bread and other loot? Who can fend-off evil and scare bad gus? Nekros! Yes, Nekros is jesus and our version is real.