Is Garuda, insulting to Religion? (closed, questions answered)

[General_Durandal]

9 minutes ago, Infirito said:

Religion is an insult to common sense, so all is fair as far as I'm concerned.

Also, Equinox can easily pass as a female version of Shiva with their duality.

 

And while we're on the topic, what about Wukong? He's supposed to be an ape-$#!^ crazy op god-frame, not a monkey-cloud.

I thought Equinox was a hermaphrodite, Sun form was male, night form was female, and fused form was both.
But DE said bluntly that Equinox was male.

Actually Wukong fits greatly with Wukong the monkey king's mythos.
He was a mighty warrior, that fought gods to prove himself the strongest being in reality.
He walked on clouds, had a magic staff that could change it's shape, defied the gods, his power-set is pretty perfect.
Though the one where he turns into a cloud is weird, would have been better as a vehicle that he can fly around on.
Maybe now that we have hover boards, that power can become a cloud he rides on?

[Infirito]

Just now, General_Durandal said:

But DE said bluntly that Equinox was male.

A duality of contrasting forces in a single entity, Equinox unleashes wrath like the onset of daybreak, or draws life to a close like dusk's approach. Shifting between two forms allows her to bolster Tenno strength in light or provide recuperative respite in darkness.

Despite the androgynous nature of Equinox's design, former Community Editorial Coordinator Adam Ma has confirmed that both day and night forms are female.

Taken from: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Equinox

I'm so tired of all this nonsense with Equinox... duality comes from constructive and destructive sides of one's personality as is evident from her skillset, it has nothing to do with genders.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

That was hilarious because the in-game representation was actually very accurate to the myths.

I know, right?

The thing is that the person objecting to it didn't actually object to the way they were portrayed, but the fact that they were being given 'control' over them by making them a playable character. The person so publicly objecting said that this then cheapened the religion by making it seem like the goddess was something you could dictate the actions of.

So the real problem is that you have two ways of looking at any of these games, you have OP's way, which is that the representation isn't accurate enough and so would be insulting there, or you have them be so accurate that the insult is that you're able to control them and have actions happen against their will.

You're screwed either way.

In which case the answer literally is to just accept that somebody, somewhere, will always find something insulting. The representation of a character in game is not in any way an impact on the subject of religion, and the entire argument is a complete waste of time.

[Yrkul]

I'll just leave these here...

 

[DeMonkey]

58 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

Actually Wukong fits greatly with Wukong the monkey king's mythos.

Not even slightly.

Here's a list of some of the things in his mythos that don't appear in game.

Magic,

Ability to transform into other creatures,

Ability to alter his own appearance, by growing to gargantuan heights or growing additional limbs,

Cloning,

Somersault Cloud,

Fire eye truth stuff,

Not to mention that his staff was also capable of not only changing it's size to whatever he wanted, but of duplicating itself as well.

What we have is a shell of what Wukong in the stories was. They took the Monkey King and literally turned him into "frame with a stick", that's a far cry of what Wukong in the stories was.

So really I don't see what the big deal is at all, if this discrepancy from Monkey King to Wukong frame is acceptable, why is the discrepancy from Garuda God to Garuda frame insulting?

[Melbourne404]

1 hour ago, General_Durandal said:

Blood isn't mentioned once in Garuda's wiki page.
So, unless the blood connection is from somewhere else, I would't know it,
and would like to know.

Well, Garuda was introduced as a gore frame. So blood was always linked to the frame. It's even more obvious after we actually see her in action, as all four of her abilities lead to blood, blood and even more blood.

[Infirito]

Just now, Melbourne404 said:

Well, Garuda was introduced as a gore frame. So blood was always linked to the frame. It's even more obvious after we actually see her in action, as all four of her abilities lead to blood, blood and even more blood.

And you'd think that would fit Khora a lot more, but DE thinks otherwise.

Kill! Maim! Burn!

[(PSN)teacup775]

22 hours ago, Yrkul said:

Funny how, apart from certain monotheists, most followers of different faiths don't agonize over the portrayal of their deities in popular media. Even more hillarious is the tendency of a certain ideology to come up with problematisms where there are none outside their own narrative.

If Garuda is taken from myth, there is the issue that the frame doesn’t have a lick of referal to his namesake.

Altas, Loki, Excal etc are all thematically consistent.

If the name is a reference to street fighter it’s less of an issue, but might seem more like too pure of a copy cat.

[seprent]

1 hour ago, Infirito said:

And you'd think that would fit Khora a lot more, but DE thinks otherwise.

Kill! Maim! Burn!

calm down khorne 

[Yrkul]

1 hour ago, (PS4)teacup775 said:

If Garuda is taken from myth, there is the issue that the frame doesn’t have a lick of referal to his namesake.

Altas, Loki, Excal etc are all thematically consistent.

If the name is a reference to street fighter it’s less of an issue, but might seem more like too pure of a copy cat.

Where are you going with this?

I was pointing out the non-issue of using Garuda, regardless of consistency with the myth or the lack thereof. There are no traumatized worshippers of Garuda banging on the doors, no reaction to this heresy and blasphemy, this banalization and trivialization of the great Garuda!!! If noone views this as a malicious attack on their religion, THERE IS NO ISSUE!!!

How about reading the rest of the post you quoted.

Oh, and as someone, who grew up with, and have actually studied norse mythology, I can tell you with assurance, that the Loki from mythology and the warframe with the same name have virtually NOTHING in common.

 

 

[General_Durandal]

3 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Not even slightly.

Here's a list of some of the things in his mythos that don't appear in game.

Magic,

Ability to transform into other creatures,

Ability to alter his own appearance, by growing to gargantuan heights or growing additional limbs,

Cloning,

Somersault Cloud,

Fire eye truth stuff,

Not to mention that his staff was also capable of not only changing it's size to whatever he wanted, but of duplicating itself as well.

What we have is a shell of what Wukong in the stories was. They took the Monkey King and literally turned him into "frame with a stick", that's a far cry of what Wukong in the stories was.

So really I don't see what the big deal is at all, if this discrepancy from Monkey King to Wukong frame is acceptable, why is the discrepancy from Garuda God to Garuda frame insulting?

How the hek would DE fit all that into one warframe?
At least he has a power set based on stuff the irl myth Wukong can do.

[General_Durandal]

3 hours ago, Melbourne404 said:

Well, Garuda was introduced as a gore frame. So blood was always linked to the frame. It's even more obvious after we actually see her in action, as all four of her abilities lead to blood, blood and even more blood.

Her name should have been Malice, Rancor, Gromit, maybe Carnage.

[DeMonkey]

23 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

How the hek would DE fit all that into one warframe?
At least he has a power set based on stuff the irl myth Wukong can do.

Never said they should give him all of it, they just didn't give him any of it.

Technically speaking, Warframe Wukong contains none of Myth Wukong's powers. 

His #1 is staff based. 

His #2 is based on his defiant personality, and the removal of his name from the Book of the Dead or whatever it was.

His #3 is derived from his boots of cloudwalking, not an ability he possessed.

His #4 is again, staff based.

None of those abilities deal with any powers that Wukong was capable of performing. 50% of his abilities deal with abilities inherent to his staff. A better name for the Frame would be "Riyu Jingu Bang".

Face it, none of these frames are all that close to their mythos counterpart.

[Infirito]

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Face it, none of these frames are all that close to their mythos counterpart.

Rhino's pretty close, though. He stomps, he roars, he pokes and he's thicc. ^_^

[Rayden_Tenno]

On 2018-11-10 at 6:54 PM, Bombarder0 said:

Lol

Haven't you heard of these?
 

Vor = Jesus

Void = Heaven

 

and we cut him in half. Seems legit. Warframe 10/10 best game.

[rune_me]

What does it matter.

Wukong is a monkey with a staff, that's about where similarities ends. Wukong should have been a trickster AND a warrior, if he were to be thematically correct.

Loki is a trickster in mythology, but there's nothing of him that fits the frame. He was a shapeshifter and good at talking his way out of situations and outsmarting the other gods, not turning invisible (which I don't recall him ever doing in mythology).

Valkyries were not berserkers, they were winged goddesses who's primary role was to decide who should die in battle and then carry those fallen to Valhalla after they had died.

Warframe has never been conceptually correct when it came to mythology, so why expect them to be now?

[Nyx219]

We're brainwashed, powerful teenagers under the influence of a cult leader directing us to murder whomever draws the short straw for any given mission, leading 4 separate genocides (two, if you discount the Infested & Corrupted entirely) and stealing everything not ours that isn't nailed down.

 

But frame inspiration, that's the baddie there.

Give me a break.

 

If Warframe kowtowed to the SJW PC White Knights, this game would not be worth playing.

 

In other words, nobody cares so long as it's fun, immersive & engaging. Try loosening those pearls a bit, you'll breath easier.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Nyx219

[Guest]

Meanwhile, the actual followers of said religions give zero s**ts about a biomechanical ninja in some online game being a vague reference to their mythology.
 

In anime and manga (and Japanese fiction in genral), references to Judeo-Christian mythology are quite common. Just go watch Evangelion and take a sip of an alcoholic beverage of your choice every time they mention a biblical name or throw some random religious symbolism in your face. Chances are you'll pass out before you're even half-way through the series. The reason why they do it is pretty simple: in THEIR culture, Judeo-Christian mythology is seen as cool and exotic. Do you think people following Judeo-Christian religions should rally against 'cultural insensitivity' in Japanese media?

[rune_me]

5 minutes ago, Nyx219 said:

We're brainwashed, powerful teenagers under the influence of a cult leader directing us to murder whomever draws the short straw for any given mission, leading 4 separate genocides (two, if you discount the Infested & Corrupted entirely) and stealing everything not ours that isn't nailed down.

 

But frame inspiration, that's the baddie there.

Give me a break.

 

If Warframe kowtowed to the SJW PC White Knights, this game would not be worth playing.

 

In other words, nobody cares so long as it's fun, immersive & engaging. Try loosening those pearls a bit, you'll breath easier.

But if I'm playing Wukong, wouldn't it be thematically correct to have jewelry that fits so tight it's painful?

[FashionFrame]

On 2018-11-10 at 10:12 AM, (PS4)Kamranos said:

To be fair, “being offended” kind of goes against Buddhism in the first place, so No I don’t think it would be deemed “offensive”.

My religion is a resurgent Ancient Egyptian, but Inaros does not offend me.

We should talk sometime! I've been obsessed with the Egyptian religion and always wanted to chat with someone that follows it! 

[rune_me]

2 minutes ago, Pr1A said:

Meanwhile, the actual followers of said religions give zero s**ts about a biomechanical ninja in some online game being a vague reference to their mythology.
 

In anime and manga (and Japanese fiction in genral), references to Judeo-Christian mythology are quite common. Just go watch Evangelion and take a sip of an alcoholic beverage of your choice every time they mention a biblical name or throw some random religious symbolism in your face. Chances are you'll pass out before you're even half-way through the series. The reason why they do it is pretty simple: in THEIR culture, Judeo-Christian mythology is seen as cool and exotic. Do you think people following Judeo-Christian religions should rally against 'cultural insensitivity' in Japanese media?

The Westboro Baptist Church needs to hear about this, they'll be right on it.

[Nyx219]

11 hours ago, Melbourne404 said:

Funnily enough, they named her alternate helmet after that queen.

Elizabeth Bathory wasn't a queen, she was a wealthy noble.

 

Fun fact: It's highly likely she didn't do anything she was accused of. Her husband loaned Hungarian king Mattias II a LOT of money (because they were literally wealthier than the king) to fight the Ottomans. This meant the king OWED them a lot of money in return.

Her husband left a trusted friend to watch over the family while he was gone fighting those Ottomans on the front lines. We'll get back to that in a minute.

Bathory's husband died on the front lines, and soon after that, the accusations cropped up. The person in charge of the investigation that supposedly caught her red-handed? The same guy her husband left in charge. Who happened to be tight with the king already. Talk about the mother of all suspicious set-ups.

 

It's the very abridged version I'm giving, but if you follow the bread crumbs, it becomes very apparent King Mattias set her up to be able to legally seize the family's assets and void his own debt. Cunning, and very dirty.

 

Oh, and a quick edit -- the man who investigated her was given the title of Palatine (viceroy) for the trouble. Total "scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" back room deal. Also being Palatine gave him access to the court's assets -- including the ones that used to be Bathory's.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Nyx219

[TankHunter678]

It seems to me that Garuda is inspire more by the monster version of Garuda (a vicious bird of prey, the king of birds, in typical RPGs) and Elisabeth Bathory then the real world mythological Garuda.

Which makes sense to me. As someone who really does not know much if anything about Hinduism or Buddhism.

[(PSN)teacup775]

4 hours ago, Yrkul said:

Where are you going with this?

I was pointing out the non-issue of using Garuda, regardless of consistency with the myth or the lack thereof. There are no traumatized worshippers of Garuda banging on the doors, no reaction to this heresy and blasphemy, this banalization and trivialization of the great Garuda!!! If noone views this as a malicious attack on their religion, THERE IS NO ISSUE!!!

My comment was that if the reference is to Garuda from myth its just bad. The name doesn’t even fit gender. It feels stapled on, her kit a bit lost. Her visuals dont line up much with her hit minus the leaping part of her 1. Lost opportunity.  Loki at least is male (as is the norse figure.. most of the time) and at least Loki the frame’s main characteristic is not head on dps but evasion “a trickster” and a decoy. Frames don’t have personality, so sniveling coward is hard to convey.

[SaidTheRogue]

Being insulting towards a religion is allowed, last I checked

The OP needs to relax, it's just a game