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Helms And Stats - The Forbidden Love


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I've been pondering about this issue for a long while, and with the recent acknowledgement in the Livestream I felt like I should write my concerns.

The Livestream mentioned the helplessness of removing or keeping stats on the existing helms, and ended with the notion that future helms will be purely cosmetics while the existing ones will remain with stats.

This inconsistency, aside from being confusing to new players, may end up disrupting the system even further.

Players will see a new statless helm that looks good, but will revert back to old ones because of their benefits and old habits.

The current state of the Helm system isn't any good either of course, as it creates an additional opposite issue; People stay away from Helms that look good just because they dislike their stats.

The stats of the helms themselves are always interesting and dynamic, especially because they all come with a downside. Throwing them completely away will make nobody happy either.

Is there really no way to seperate the two systems and yet keep them functional?

One possible solution would be to make helms purely cosmetic and add a further, specifized slot into the e xisting Warframe Mod slots.

Much like the Auras, there could be a Helmet-Attribute (Could be unrelated to the Helmets now, of course) slot where you can put one of the two existing options for every Frame, and more to come.

One Aura, one Helm-attribute, and 10 mod slots for a Warframe.

It could be somewhat of an Attunement, really. A rhino that is attuned to speed instead of power, a Vauban that is attuned to chaos instead of protection... somewhat of a customizable Core within the Warframe.

The one downside to this suggestion is the increasing complexity and differentiation within the mod system, which was first shown with the integration of Auras. The deck system is starting to look more and more inefficient for the constant development and "endless" customization DE is looking for.

In short:

I love the Helm attribute system, but I also love the sound of helms being purely cosmetic.

I would love it if you had a better solution than to just "accept your past mistakes" and move on, I believe both of these features can work within Warframe on their own, to some extent.

I hope to hear the thoughts of other players on the matter. How do you feel about the upcoming change to helmets, and do you have your own active alternatives to the passive solution?

EDIT Addition #1 - A response below with an example of possible future decay from keeping a mixed system in the game just because it is inconvenient to create solidarity.

Steve mentioned Team Fortress 2, which a lot of players look to when trying to compare the mystery that is Warframe...

TF2 has literally hundreds over hundreds of hats, cosmetics, scarves, and miscs.

Until a very recent update just a month ago, only 5 of these hundreds of customization pieces had stats on them (The "Polycount Update" hat sets, for those interested).

These 5 hats had their stats impact gameplay decisions for over 3 years, and just now Valve decided to shift those stats into the weapons and make every single cosmetic choice in TF2 have near to no effect in gameplay.

If DE goes through with the strategy Steve stated in the Livestream, they may very well end up in the same rough situation for many years to come.

Edited by Feam
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Why would you forgo useful stats for a pretty hat?

 

I'd like to see the stats stay, I'm a customization freak. But I'm torn as to whether they should be separated from the cosmetics or not. On the one hand, Ash's statless head crab helm looks about a million times cooler than the Locust helm which gives you more energy, but makes you look like a gay elf. On the other hand, if you see a Volt sporting a Pulse helm, you know he's built for Speed and not Overload.

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grandfather in the old helms with stats (beta/founder/kickstarter luv type thing)

BUT, make the stats optional, you can turn them off if you want to (even better would be have helm1's stats with helm2's look, jus sayin)

THEN, all new cosmetic items are stat-less

viola

problem solved

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grandfather in the old helms with stats (beta/founder/kickstarter luv type thing)

BUT, make the stats optional, you can turn them off if you want to (even better would be have helm1's stats with helm2's look, jus sayin)

THEN, all new cosmetic items are stat-less

viola

problem solved

 

 

...

 

How does that solve anything? You've still got veterans who won't want to give up their old stats when a prettier hat comes along, and rooks who'll never get to have +stat hats.

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https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/102794-the-helmet-issue/

I like this suggestion.

 

For those that don't wanna click:

Unlocking a helm merely 'unlocks' the stats that are attributed to the helm.

You can select both what helm you want, and what set of stats (if any) separate.

This way, old helms are fine and can easily be converted, and new helms get to still throw in interesting stat change ups to mix up gameplay.

Edited by Stinker
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On the one hand, Ash's statless head crab helm looks about a million times cooler than the Locust helm which gives you more energy, but makes you look like a #$$ elf. On the other hand, if you see a Volt sporting a Pulse helm, you know he's built for Speed and not Overload.

This has been on my mind for a long time, too, but I feel like Steve has made his stance on this specific question in the stream with statements like: "As much as it's nice to have gameplay stats on every single choice you make for your Warframe's look, but it takes away from the freedom of visible customization and personal taste." (Paraphrased)

Steve mentioned Team Fortress 2, which a lot of players look to when trying to compare the mystery that is Warframe to other F2Ps, other Shooters, and other games in general. I have an extensive background in the game, and if I hadn't played it for a very long time I probably wouldn't have gotten into Warframe either.

TF2 has literally hundreds over hundreds of hats, cosmetics, scarves, and miscs.

Until a very recent update just a month ago, only 5 of these HUNDREDS of customization pieces had stats on them (The "Polycount Update" hat sets, for those interested).

These 5 hats had their stats impact gameplay decisions for over 3 years, and just now Valve decided to shift those stats into the weapons and make every single cosmetic choice in TF2 have near to no effect in gameplay.

If DE goes through with the strategy Steve stated in the Livestream, they may very well end up in the same rough situation for many years to come.

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https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/102794-the-helmet-issue/

Unlocking a helm merely 'unlocks' the stats that are attributed to the helm.

You can select both what helm you want, and what set of stats (if any) separate.

This way, old helms are fine and can easily be converted, and new helms get to still throw in interesting stat change ups to mix up gameplay.

Many games have features like this, and it is definitely a possible solution.

Every player has their own association to such an idea, but for me the notion came from systems like in these two games:

  • Terraria - You have 2 unique equipment slots for your helmets. One is cosmetic, and the other one is stats.

    If you have a +3 Defense Silver helmet, but you like the way your +1 Defense copper helmet looks, you can hide your Silver Helmet beneath your Copper helmet and still get the +3 benefit.

    If you only have one helmet, the one placed in the Stat slot will be shown on your character.

  • World of Warcraft - In summary, Transmogrification allows you to take the looks of a certain item, coat it over another item with superior stats and an identical category, and combine the two to serve the specific purpose and visage you desire. Unlike the Terraria system, this one combines the items permanently.
There are many other great ways to approach this kind of dynamic system that allows both stats and fashion, I hope they consider the 3 we've presented.
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...

 

How does that solve anything? You've still got veterans who won't want to give up their old stats when a prettier hat comes along, and rooks who'll never get to have +stat hats.

it "solves" the problem of binding stats with cosmetics for all future content

and what exactly is your problem with that? "rooks" won't have something that I got in beta? like Braton or Lato Vandal? so what? (.... please dont be one of those "everyone deserves everything types"....)

and "vets" who don't want to give up their stats don't have to, it's a CHOICE, not forced, no one is forcing you to pick a certain helmet, but future cosmetics won't force you to have stats you don't want

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it "solves" the problem of binding stats with cosmetics for all future content

and what exactly is your problem with that? "rooks" won't have something that I got in beta? like Braton or Lato Vandal? so what? (.... please dont be one of those "everyone deserves everything types"....)

and "vets" who don't want to give up their stats don't have to, it's a CHOICE, not forced, no one is forcing you to pick a certain helmet, but future cosmetics won't force you to have stats you don't want

That is a very shallow approach to game design as a whole, without even considering the blatant undermining and disrespect of other people's arguments and opinions in your response.
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That is a very shallow approach to game design as a whole, without even considering the blatant undermining and disrespect of other people's arguments and opinions in your response.

i dont even....shallow? blatant undermining? disrespect?

hyperbole much?

having cosmetics be just cosmetics, something wrong with that? grandfathering in beta content for beta testers, what's wrong with that?

maybe your ilk are just too attached to power creep and you can't see outside the box

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i dont even....shallow? blatant undermining? disrespect?

hyperbole much?

having cosmetics be just cosmetics, something wrong with that? grandfathering in beta content for beta testers, what's wrong with that?

maybe your ilk are just too attached to power creep and you can't see outside the box

I should probably just stick to debating with "my ilk" then, clearly they care more about the subject than someone who's here for the sake of picking on people who disagree with him.

I apologize for mentioning it in the first place, my expectations are set way too high.

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