Mag 9.8: Feedback Thread

[LazerusKI]

Ok, my feedback:

Pull is awesome!

Bullet attractor is fun

Crush needs Armor Ignore

[Turtleshellon]

I have never used the old mag, I will try to new one in prime version. 

[Wallace24]

These seem like some pretty good fixes. I haven't played Mag since I crafted Banshee, really. and that was back when I was mastery rank 1 or 2 (the old days, I'm nearing 11 now for the record). anyway, since then, pull has had several updates, and now it seems to be what it should be. unlike what these others might be saying, Crush does not need to affect enemies that walk into the radius after you've cast it. that's just not how the ability works. Mag casts it, and all the enemies in the radius at the time of casting are lifted into the air and their bones are magnetized and crushed. It wouldn't make sense for new enemies to come into range and then be affected. It isn't carried out over time, its not like soundquake. it works like miasma, where it is cast, and the effect is applied to the enemies within the radius. The difference is that Mag's casting animation continues, and the damage was dealt at the end. For miasma, the poison effect is applied, and then the damage ticks start, but you don't see people saying that it should be applied to new enemies that walk into range while their comrades disintegrate. 

 

Unfortunately, I have to admit that the timing fix for crush is a good one. unfortunate because it means that I probably won't be able to steal a few of Mag's kills while her enemies are floating in the air. Although in my defense, sometimes I'm shooting them before she casts crush. but ganking kills from mag was a guilty pleasure. does that make me a bad person?

[OishiSan]

Fix pull back to the way it was. It's too op and it has lost its utility.

 

Too op:

It does 300 damage per pull.  390 damage per pull with focus. Crush does 1000 damage, 1300 damage with focus.

Pull costs 17 energy with streamline. Crush costs 70 with streamline.  Using pull 4 times will do more overall damage than crush and cost less energy.

 

Pull Math: 17*4 = 68 energy. 390 * 4 = 1560 damage.

 

And the range on this thing with stretch and coil mag helmet is just too far for this kind of damage and energy consumption.

 

Lost utility:

Pull no longer stacks mobs like it did. It now just throws enemy like a "ragdoll" as you guys intended, but seriously don't you think this is ridiculous?

 

 

Additionally, because pull is so strong, I can 1 hit mobs all the way up to level 40 which even cuts out utility in the lower level maps when you're trying to level or help other people because it just 1 hits the mobs.

 

 

Tl;dr:

Nothing compares to mag pull now. If you wanna level/forma your mag and/or farm level 40-50 or lower level maps for materials, now is the time to do it.

Edited September 6, 2013 by OishiSan

[-CM-Zura]

Mag Crush Sound effect is Low while being in hard Cross fire i cant even hear that sound effect

[mcryseria]

I dont think you play with 1000 shields and so on... And I don't think you play mag against 60-100lvls mobs. The pulling is only dangerous against higher lvl poison mobs and even then you can pull enemies in away that the poison mobs don't hit you.

 

Mag used to be fun. Now it has some aoe damage spell which does not do damage at higher lvls and does not help anymore to relocate properly the enemies. Well anyway this change was the final thing for me. ggs.

I don't think you know anything. The new pull insta kill enemies, just sit near a cliff and use the ability. IT relocates enemies still you just know where to stand when casting it. It doesn't work on ancients though, just merely knocks them down. 

 

Edit: BTW Mag is my starter frame, and even though I have all the other frames, she's still the second frame that I mostly use, next to my Saryn.

Edited September 6, 2013 by mcryseria

[Buddhakingpen]

I honestly think that this buff brings her completely in line with everyone else. just think about it. as a starter frame, excaliburs 1 is a mobility tool and high damage spammable skill. Loki can make it so that basically no one hits him, plus high movespeed. Mag had a move that was artifical mobility (bought enemies closer instead of bringing you closer) . pull was basically a different take on slash dash, except it did no damage. thats just not fair. in a game where darting around is usually to your advantage, excal gets to dart around WHILE doing damage. Since mag doesnt have the advantage of darting around, putting at least slash dash level damage on pull brings it in line. she's now viable from her 1-3 instead of jsut her 1 and 4 (mid level). Mag players might be &!$$ed that the whole pull+shotgun gangbang combo is gone (esp after the sexy strun wraith) but they will learn to make it into a pull+paris combo or something. They fly everywhere, you pick em off

 

edit: oh yeah, just turn down the ragdoll effect. ppl flying 30 feet in the air is funny, but not efficient. try to keep it more in like with kogakes kick.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Buddhakingpen

[jormaakkeli]

Nukes are most boring spells in the game. Pull used to be fun as it was so totally different. Now its just "insta" killing nuke on lower lvls and decent damage on higher lvls. But I'm off. Have fun with new mag. Atleast some persons agree with me.

[HomeyCDawg]

DE, Ragdoll is great, but make sure that they are still getting pulled into a pile in front of Mag like it was before. That was it's strength, as they could then be finishing moved with melee or hit by a teammates AOE. Knocking them off their feet without pulling them or having them fly in different directions is not good.

Edited September 6, 2013 by HomeyCDawg

[Juranai]

Well after trying out my favorite mag I can only say that crush has gotten worse, it can't even kill lvl 44 mobs :P as for the rest I have no complaints thus far.

[Drasiel]

One thing I want to point out about Pull: because it ragdolls enemies if your initial pull didn't kill them there is no way to tell that they are still alive until they stand up. While they are ragdolled the mouse over health bar doesn't appear at all. It would be good if you could correct this.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Drasiel

[VeronikaStripper]

I absolutely detest the change to mag's pull. The enemies fly in absolutely random directions now. I thought that the fact that them being ragdolled meant that they would tumble around objects and actually get to where you want them to be, but that is not the case.

 

This ability was a good tactical use ability. I don't care about damage on this ability, I want all the mobs to lay at my feet. I use this for several different occasions.

 

1. Trying to rush a map with lots of mobs in the area, I like to pull them to one location and then speed past them.

2. I look left, and pull, I look right and pull, grouping all the enemies up for a good crush.

3. When I level up my melee weapons with pull, I grab them all up together and start hacking and slashing.

4. I like to pull toxic ancients off the cryopod in defense. (this doesnt work any more)

5. There are pits that i like to pull enemies into to dispose of them.

Edited September 6, 2013 by valdrak

[Archwizard]

Alright, after having run my Mag through a handful of missions to test her abilities:

I'm in a love-hate relationship with the changes to Pull. Amazing sound effects, corpses flying everywhere, but it doesn't bring enemies to me anymore- it just kinda throws them in roughly my direction. Which wouldn't be such a bad thing on Infested maps- Toxic Ancients and Runners especially. It just means its use as more than a stun is now... mitigated.

It was stated on the livestream that the ragdoll effects mean Pull now reacts more with the environment. Does this mean enemies take more damage from slamming into walls and railings at 50 miles per hour? Or just that they'll catch fire if you pull them through a fire patch on special maps? If the former, that's beyond awesome. If the latter, I'm fairly certain it did that before...

Crush, meanwhile, is further proved to be outclassed by Pull in every sense of the word. As others have pointed out, mathematically, Crush has lower range and damage-per-energy, and the stun Pull grants can be kept up almost indefinitely if you have Energy Siphon, power efficiency and a large energy pool, with a significantly shorter cast-time.

I might be biased, but I don't blame this on Pull being strong, just on Crush being a weak ultimate. Compare Rhino Stomp, which has a larger radius, shorter cast time (near-instant), longer CC and more damage due to its armor peneration; or Avalanche, which grants its caster damage immunity, ensnares enemies who enter the radius while he's casting, and deals 1000 damage with double effect on shields (compared to Crush's flat 1000 damage at all levels, mitigated by armor).

Bullet Attractor is awesome. Need to test Shield Polarize more, preferably on Corpus maps.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Archwizard

[Subkillin]

Mag is awesome thanks Steve.  Mag Prime can represent properly now.  As for people saying pull is random, um no it not.  If you pull them and they hit something they will bounce of that, if nothing is in the way they slide the same way at your feet.  I played a few levels with Mag and the highest was a defense alert mission that was 75+ corpus.  I had no problem holding my own in fact I shined pasted the Rhino and Excal frame (even though they not really that great of a example)  with no deaths and most almost everything during that defense mission.  Combo the right powers together at the right time and you're in beast mode on Mag now.

[Delsaber]

Did a few test runs with Mag's new power changes. First off I'd like to thank the sound team for the new audio on her powers, it's very satisfying and fitting to her theme. I do have a few suggestions however, the new sounds for Pull, Shield Polarize, Bullet Attractor, and the first part of Crush sound very similar (if not the same) so some changes to mix things up might be beneficial. Also the final sound queue on Crush (plays right when the damage is applied) is amazing, but making it slightly louder and give it just a little more feeling of impact/force will make it perfect.

Pull: The damage on this ability is insane now and should not be taken lightly. The new ragedoll effects are great, but as already mentioned interferes quite a bit with the actual task of "pulling" them to me. As a side note loot should not drop from pulled corpses until they've stopped moving, had some issues with loot just going everywhere (mostly in out of reach places).

Shield Polarize: The changes are quite nice and the damage is somewhat noticeable, but this power is still way to limited to be truly enjoyable and utilized. How am I supposed to us this against infested or non-shielded grineer? It either needs to be looked at from scratch or give it some use outside of enemy shields (giving Mag and her allies some shield boost or something when cast might be a good place to start).

Bullet Attractor: I've always had a special place for this power in my heart after discovering the Excalibur combo. The damage multiplier is quite alluring to bring even when not boss running and definitely fits the theme of the ability. The damage it does when it explodes is still negligible at best.

Crush: So now that the animation is faster, I get to see the large number turn into a smaller number due to armor...faster! Seriously Crush needs help I'm not sure if you're purposefully not giving it armor ignore because of Armor/Damage 2.0 coming up and you think it'd be to strong with it, but if that's the case...there are far far more destructive armor ignoring abilities out there.

Crush desperately needs armor ignore to at least be considered to be an ultimate power (especially with the damage Pull now puts out) and even with armor ignore it's killing potential is still low compared to other damage oriented ultimates. However instead of just buffing the damage to make it rival other mass kill ultimates, I think Mag's should have something special instead. The simple solution is have the target's armor be permanently destroyed or severely weakened after being Crushed. A more complicated and creative solution would be since everyone was just Crushed, have them be unable to run/walk at full speeds, force them to crawl around like the Infested crawlers have to do!

Just my 2 cents. :)

EDIT: Fixed some typos...

Edited September 6, 2013 by Delsaber

[WARGAMES]

My only input is make Bullet Attractor work like Absorb and Antimatter Drop, absorbing damage and after dealing that damage in a radial explosion, then she would be up to par with other frames, even if you put in a cap. Then she will be up to par with other frames.

I want this bullet attractor now!  flat damage just does't work other than defensively for too much energy.

 

also pull doesn't seem to pull so well anymore. o.O  yeah ok nice damage, ragdolls........why is it not over near me yet *pulls again*

[Mietz]

My short feedback after testing the new Mag:

 

Pull: Overbuffed. I can't believe I'm saying this, but pull is now insane, the energy economy is great considering the amount of damage it does. Not to mention the utility it provides. I was never in the camp of giving Pull a damage boost but rather better utility. The ragdoll is a nice addition but you have given the enemies so much acceleration that it essentially makes them fly all over the place instead of being a zoning and area control ability. A solution would be to let Mag essentially project  Vaubans Vortex directly at her palm. Vortex ragdolls enemies into it and keeps them there, pull is just weird.

 

Shield Polarize: Damage buff is ok, but it still doesn't really make this skill viable against anything else than Corpus. Restricting a power to only roughly 1/3rd of enemies isn't a good idea.

 

Bullet Attractor: The damage multiplier is good but the corpse-explosion has to go, it fulfills no role in higher level play and the damage is negligible. Add this damage to the damage multiplier or remove it entirely. Alternatively make it a deployable nyx absorb with an AOE explosion after X amount of time.

 

Crush: Is now undesirable as Pull out-damages crush and controls enemies better for less energy. It is now better to slot something else in its place. I would suggest to add either armor-ignore, making it a very viable endgame power, or add a specific debuff effect to make this power desirable. Crush isn't a good ultimate compared to other frames, it just isn't.

 

What I'm trying to say here is, with Mag i want to control the battlefield, consciously and with little risk to myself (compared to the previous AOE pull up to my knees). Mag should not be about damage but about debuff, control, cc and zoning. It is advertised as a support frame.

We already spit death with our weapons anyways, lets have some good utility powers on Mag.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Mietz

[Draakje]

Pull is a lot of fun now, hilarious seeing them fly all over the place.

 

Bullet attractor is useful with the added damage, the explosion does nearly no damage still cannot even kill a level 16 that is standing right next to the target.

 

crush needs a damage buff for higher levels however with the reworks for damage and armor coming in the near future i think that will fix itself.

[Ziggarius]

Love the changes to Pull and Shield Polarize, really nice now.

 

Bullet Attractor, any chance of having the explosion damage increase based on the number of bullets it absorb before the enemy died? :D  Otherwise, it's great.

 

Crush, I uh, loved using the other three abilities so much I forgot I had Crush available... but if it's just "damage timing", I'm probably unlikely to use it that much due to it's super long animation time.

[TemetNosce]

Mag 9.8: Feedback Thread

 

Scott's Comments:

After the previous Mag review it was obvious that Mag was still not on par with other frames and another review was in order.  I think she is closer to other frames power wise now. I will be watching the stats and feedback to see how the new and improved version performs.

 

Changes:

 

Pull: Damage changes, change damage type to use ragdolls for the pulling instead of sliding. Increased amount of damage dealt. Should be more in-line with other warframe powers.

 

Shield Polarize changes: Radial damage that is dealt when shields are removed is now scaled based on amount of fusion.

 

Bullet Attractor: Added damage multiplier on the targeted enemy, Makes bullet attractor much more deadly.

 

Crush: Damage timing changes.

 

I'm going to address the powers in order here, but briefly in summary - Mag has become a low level powerhouse, but her utility has decreased farther yet, and her lack of scaling into end game means a lower role there than before this patch.

 

Pull: With the new damage/ragdoll effect Pull has turned into a decent damage dealer, which holds up even at higher levels. However, at the same time the changes have resulted in a situation where it's no longer possible to stack up enemies, which has killed Mag's best feature in high level team play. At this point, I think if you can just fix Pull's lack of precision so that it can once again combo with AoE weapons, it'll be a good 1 skill.

 

Shield Polarize: I definitely notice an increased offensive effect, but on the other hand this doesn't give it utility, nor does it make it broadly useful enough to be worth slotting. I will say that pegging damage on the shields drained was a good idea though. It functioned even on Pluto. I still maintain you need to bump the defensive use however before this skill is really worth keeping, probably with some form of party buff. Past that, I ran into one issue with it - if you strip the shields from a group of enemies in range of eachothers radial effect, it only appears to apply the damage from the shield drain for one of them.

 

Bullet Attractor: Seems to deal double damage, simple, effective. I feel like you've solved the largest issue with this skill - it's now worth using against bullet sponge enemies. However, it's still a very niche effect. That however may be simply due to how fast most enemies die at present however, if more powerful enemies are being implemented this may well turn out to be a valuable skill. If you have no such intentions, it might be best to look at buffing the other aspects though.

 

Crush: Still terrible, even before you hit end game. Even if you solved the damage issues with this skill, it would still need a rework, as the second effects/costs are distinctly minor, and extremely weak for an ult.

[SanityRobot]

So many bugs it is hard to test.

 

Shield Polarize is strong as hell against fully shielded enemies. Its pretty awesome.

 

Pull is so buggy it's hard to even call it a "pull". Enemies just randomly go flying in random directions. Or they just stand there. Or they fall through walls.

 

Bullet Attractor is still bugged and bullets inside the bubble do nothing. Without fixing that bug, it really doesn't matter what changes you make to it.

[MinotaurWarrior]

Pull seems to have developed a tendency to crash games. I've only ever had the game crash twice, and both times were today, in the middle of casting pull.

 

Otherwise, I love the changes, and hope eventually mag gains a fourth ability worth considering.

[JDragon56]

I can't say the damage (guessing increase) appeals to me, as it makes the pulling element moderately pointless. 

 

I found Mag very boring for ages, then...oh then...I equipped the Orthos and Pull! OMG!!! Fun circuits engaged epic entertainment in vast abundance.

 

Now it does a modicum of damage enemies don't necessarily come towards you because they die...sure that is the good end result but the epic slicing with a melee weapon was soooooo much more fun. 

 

Also enemies don't get pulled as proficiently they fall over where they are thus the word pull is mistaken. 

 

It would be good to see the old pull come back so that immense fun time with melee can be had once again.

[Mietz]

Let me suggest something for Crush here.

 

Let Crush be a "channeled" ability. 

 

1. You press 4 and -hold it down- for increased damage. You leave yourself open to attacks since you don't get invincibility frames while casting, this is the tradeoff for the increased damage. Let the damage increase without a cap.

 

2. Let Mag move during casting, very, very slowly. This way she can pick up a bunch of enemies and carry them around for a while, controlling and dealing damage. Leave the dmg as it is.

 

3. To offset this new way to control enemies, make the enemies immune to other players weapons fire, so we don't get an infinite Bastille. Although I am of the conviction it wouldn't be too OP anyways.

 

4. Make it so you can cancel the casting at any time, making it possible to just throw the enemies up for a second and then dropping them if you get overwhelmed.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Mietz

[TheCasual]

Pull is the new mag ult. Its armor ignore and low energy cost makes it tear through everything. Amazing CC as well. BTW if crush is using magnetic forces, armor would amplify its damage right? The metal armor would collapse in on its wearer it would seem.