Trinity 9.8: Feedback Thread

[Bleghy]

I was always against Trinity reworks, I thought she was tough to use well and that was good in my opinion.

But after playing a mission with the new Trinity I can say I take it all back. Well, most of it.

 

Well of Life - I don't know how well it will function at high levels or in a group, but it seems like a great improvement. It feels awesome to use too, as all skills should.

 

Energy Vampire - I'm a little iffy about this one. I did like the idea of having 2 identical skills, one for health and one for energy. I can imagine in a group the target will just get killed off, but that's more a problem with who you play with than the abilities design. As a largely solo player I can say I like it. Being able to cast it on one enemy then address the masses with link, turn some unfortunate guy into a well of life. It just feels right in solo play.

 

Link - Being invincible is too good for anyone, and facing a single target only really happens on bosses (maybe not for long from the J3-Golem footage) so I love this change. Sure, I'll admit going toe-to-toe with Raptor was fun and all, even if my sentinel did hate me for it, but it always felt cheap. Now I can take less damage, hurt some mobs a little (Trinity is support remember, not damage dealer) and it lets me know where all the enemies are without looking at my mini-map. I'm still to find a n energy colour I like but that's just about my only criticism on this.

 

Blessing - This is where I agree with my old beliefs. It did not need changing in my eyes. It took an eternity to cast and you were often too late when it did take effect. But that's what made is so good to me. There was a build up to sending your whole team into 'god mode', and it was satisfying to get it right. Now it just doesn't feel like an ultimate. It doesn't feel like the 'god mode' it should. By speeding up the animation the whole feel of it is ruined. It could be the casting animation for Well of Life, that's how bad it is. At the very least I would suggest to give the old cast speed back and just make it take effect earlier in the animation. It's so anti-climatic right now.

 

Over all I'm happy with the changes and Trinity will now retake the position as my main (bye-bye Saryn).

[Sgaterboy]

I'm going to join the community in requesting a rework of the new Energy Vampire. I can understand/live with/support the other changes, but the way I see it Energy Vampire is now almost useless for team play, exception being Boss fights.

 

The enemies are almost always killed before any appreciable amount of energy can be drained from the target for myself or my team.

 

Maybe we could keep the Area of Effect, but change the EV catalyst from a Damage over Time back to an onDamaged() system. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alternatively, we could give the enemy invulnerability for the duration, while keeping him immobile/unable to attack? With the exception of Bosses, of course.

 

Just, please DE, don't keep EV in its new form.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Sgaterboy

[fatpig84]

EV is actually weakened by duration mods making it useless.

But on the flip side it has a good stun and that gives her a single target disable.

 

Making enemies invulnerable during EV duration is bad though.

Just leave it as it's previous alteration while keeping the mini-stun would be good.

[SanityRobot]

EV needs a "final burst".

 

if the target dies prematurely, it lets out a large energy pulse. Make the energy pulse equal to half the total of the remaining pulses.

 

Simplest fix for the current form. Penalizing people for killing enemies is just counter intuitive and anti-fun.

Edited September 7, 2013 by SanityRobot

[Amistyrja]

My only gripe with Energy Vampire is that silly teammates make me lose energy.

 

 

Other than that, quite happy overall.

[Casardis]

EV needs a "final burst".

 

if the target dies prematurely, it lets out a large energy pulse.

 

Simplest fix for the current form. Penalizing people for killing enemies is just counter intuitive and anti-fun.

This please.

[Vitras]

okay so i had trinity before, and i found her tricky so i wanted to wait till after the warframe changes.. here's my verdict

1. WoL - awesome that it stops the target and levitates them. and the health increase helps a lot (from what i could tell before the update)
2. EV - great that it stops the target too, even works on bosses so i could stop them, get more energy and do it again (although that takes out all the fun..)
3. Link - haven't toyed with it much.. but i think that full invincibility was a bit much in the first place so.. not too sad about that. like that it's more than one target now though
4. Blessing - great that the time it takes for the effect was shortened. not much else they could do to change that ability without people taking a fit, but they did good

so before i didn't like trinity, but now i actually want to ranker her up to 30 and see how it goes.. and not just for mastery either

[kamimegurine]

Change EV to the way it was before UP 9.8, Switch the way it interacts with mobs for Well of Life or Make that if the target with EV dies from any player dmg  it gives a final pulse with the energy of the last shot like it was before... however i would like to c a switch well of life pulsing HP like an ancient infested and EV giving back energy / Dmg

[carbondragon]

Trinity 9.8: Feedback Thread

 

Scott's Comments:

Trinity has always been a tricky frame to get right, she needs to fill her role in the group but also be viable in a solo context. I think the changes to Trinity addresses concerns and imbalances with her initial design and also grants her some damage capabilities. Again I will be looking at feedback and stats to see how she performs.

Link: No longer damage immunity changed to damage reduction, now links to several targets at once amplifying the incoming damage. Increased radius search for link targets.

 

Uh huh... So, to be viable in solo...you removed the only reason to solo with her? DE Logic...

[SanityRobot]

Uh huh... So, to be viable in solo...you removed the only reason to solo with her? DE Logic...

 

Older form of Link was only really useful against bosses.

 

Trinity was sorely lacking some kind of AoE for solo play. Not saying the new Link is the savior, but it is a step in the right direction. I was hoping more for a targeted version, that split damage between enemies rather than you...but yeah.

[SignumCruxis]

Link needs to be reverted, as a frame with no kill-it-before-it-kills-you skills, and blessing costing too much for a save (on either yourself or a team member) coupled with the new energy vampire having zero clutch energy regen when it matters most (Having to stand around and wait isn't really why we play Warframe, is it?) is a pretty hard hit with the nerfbat. Being as squishy as she is with no instant wipes within X meters etc etc gimps her supportive role.

 

I thought Trinity with all the correct mods, energy management and power timing/power use orders was already challenging enough, and, equally fun to use.

 

Trading damage, and having to use massive amounts of energy constantly to just stay alive was what made her great for support, she had that ability in a clutch moment to pick up a team member with a quick link if energy was low, though now, even with reduced damage she gets slaughtered standing still for that long.

 

If your power management was off on bosses or, you got hit by an ancient as link went down, or any other similar (and regular) scenario, you'd die against upwards of level 80 enemies while on the floor.

 

 

Energy vampire I have mixed feelings about, it's good but it's very bad too, Also looks too similar to molecular prime.

And nobody wants to sit around a mob for for that many seconds. Warframe is fast paced, which makes this much waiting around feel even longer.

[Meatuchu]

Molecular prime has rendered EV useless even more than it did before. I can't even ask people to not kill the EV enemy because EVERYTHING dies before I can get the energy for a blessing.

[OOLuigiOo]

Molecular prime has rendered EV useless even more than it did before. I can't even ask people to not kill the EV enemy because EVERYTHING dies before I can get the energy for a blessing.

All you people do is complain. Why don't you people just leave when she around. I hardly see her.

[fatpig84]

Uh huh... So, to be viable in solo...you removed the only reason to solo with her? DE Logic...

 

Max continuity and max constitution allows for a very long blessing invuln.

Plus EV now stuns the enemy so it ain't that bad, just EV is now too counter-productive to be used with WOL.

[SanityRobot]

Max continuity and max constitution allows for a very long blessing invuln.

Plus EV now stuns the enemy so it ain't that bad, just EV is now too counter-productive to be used with WOL.

 

The only way I'm managing to use EV is with WoL.

 

That 10x health helps at least get an extra pulse or two of energy off before it gets blown up by Nova.

 

Still pretty dumb that making enemies have 10x health is WoL's only purpose, but what can ya do?

Edited September 7, 2013 by SanityRobot

[_BlackReaper_]

Well of Life

- obvious single target crowd control, which is cool

- target has increased health which means it will stick around a bit longer so players can get the health

- it will take players some time to get use to using this system

- it is efficient, but due to current way the game is played not as useful as Blessing

 

Suggestion: Make WoL something Trinity casts on herself, making her the Well of Life. Players within so many meters will regenerate so much health and shields every few seconds. Make the duration pretty long to start and longer as it is ranked up as well as the amount regenerated by mods. Or make it so WoL moves to the next closest enemy unit when the target dies.

 

Energy Vampire

- again, obvious single target crowd control is very cool

- the pulsing is ok, the return can take a while, which does not always work well given the fast paced nature of the game

- players will really need to get use to leaving the EV target alone while it pulses

- it worked great in a defense mission I did with my clan, but they tend to think before they do stuff

- the % based dot which does more damage for hitting weak points is really cool. I was amazed when i was hitting rank 140 Ancients for over 5,000 damage a tick.

 

Suggestion: Increase return rate, either the speed or amount done per pulse. Maybe also make EV move to the next closest enemy unit when the target dies. Otherwise I like it.

 

Link

- max three targets

- decent range

- if stacked with blessing could be used to keep Trinity alive just long enough to get Blessing up again when needed

- it was fun running around lower level maps and watching enemies just fall over dead

- often doesnt get any use as few enemies are attacking Trinity ins group play

- the damage reflect is not consistent. level 55 stuff getting hit for 2 damage and then the next group getting hit for 15 damage?

- damage mitigation is terrible

- you can try to juggle Torid damage, Link, E.V, and Blessing, but it is not fun. better off just shooting the enemies.

- duration is fine

 

Suggestion: Make the damage mitigation scale up more and at max rank with enough energy strength (like a max Focus) Trinity has 100% damage mitigation.

 

Blessing

- faster cast animation

 

Suggestion: Make players invulnerable as soon as the animation starts, then apply the health/shield restore once it completes.

Edited September 7, 2013 by SGAnthony

[Satwo]

oh god.....

Satwo no she didn't lost her invincibility. In fact she is not only immune to damage but also strikes back. She also have 2 CC abilities.

Thing is that if i aggro mobs on some distance from a pod and i use vampire, my entire party can shoot at mob and get energy. Now they MUST be near target in order to get this energy. So they must leave their firepoints, this means mobs will live longer and this is very very uncomfortably and in case of survival mode can be punishing.

Thing is that as Trinity i still can't die and i still best tank so you can suck it rhino boy. I can EV some ancient far far away and be good with my energy regen. And i can have blessing on and link on. Problem is that this is a lot of needless movements i must make.

So basically in order to operate at same efficiency i need to use all three abilities at the same time, when before this nerf i could use only one or two.

the point of the nerf was to force you to be a team player. link would permit players to just wander off and be useless. they survived, but effectively did nothing unless they fired their guns, a trait many trinitys dont have.

her invincibility was removed to force players to give everyone invincibility, which i see as a team buff, not just a solo action. even if you did use EV and bless, everyone that pays attention will know they are invincible and will stand near the EV target when they see what youre really doing.

so yes, she did lose her invincibility. all she has left is the ability to give the entire team this power, not just herself. she is no longer a tank, shes a support that she was meant to be.

rhino is still a better tank and plays his role perfectly for soaking up damage AND distracting the enemy with a higher priority aggro rate.

[Sahansral]

I can see the effort, you put in to make this warframe viable, but... wow, you have go back to the drawing board.

1) WoL

In the present incarnation, it's still too slow for the fast pace of the game. Besides boss fights, other players won't shoot the victim in time before it dies. My deathcube kills normal targets before anyone can leech. The healing component is overshadowed by Blessing. Even as a crowd control it's too slow.

a) Make targetting more forgiving => faster

b) Buff the HP-Bonus of the victim considerably

c) Make it spammable

d) Total redesign (let Trinity be the well; passive healing aura around her)

2) EV

A skill that requires a team NOT to shoot at a target just makes no sense in often chaotic situations (you know, the situations, when energy tents to go low and you would need a energy boosting ability). Just won't work in PUGs. The range is too low and lengthening mods increase time between pulses. Nobody wants to interrupt the game flow near the target and stay the full duration just waiting.

a) Increase range

b) Return to old mechanic; damaging generates energy for ALL team members

c) Total redesign

3) Link

The old version was overpowered in combination with Blessing, but it helped Trinity doing her support role. There's still not enough visual feedback of the reflected damage (but that's rather subjective; damage FEELS low for me). I don't have enough playing experience to judge the damage reduction aspect, yet.

a) Total redesign (drop damage aspect, Trinity can't be targetted for the duration; still ignore knockdowns)

4) Blessing

Trinity most overpowered skill got a boost, turning her even more into a one trick pony and preventing the other three skills from becoming worth a slot, because they they have to be balanced with that powerhouse in mind.

tldr; Trinity is awfully out of balance. Most of her power comes from blessing. The new changes even make the situation worse, turning the frame into a unrewarding, unwieldy, onedimensional mess.

Weaken her ultimate and better balance between all four skills.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Sahansral

[Dreamcane]

Feedback:

 

- Well of life

My opinion it's still useless. If player took much damage and close to death you can't say him "Hey! Shoot at this one, you'll get healt! Not this one! This one! Ah... nevermind. He's already dead". In hard fights there you can loose hp, I will use my ult to boost my party in all cases.

 

- Energy vampire

I like new mechanic of it. Really. You can take down any hard enemy from the fight and get energy - pretty usefull on defence missions. Not sure about numbers.

 

- Link

Well, new mechanic sounds interesting. But now it's almost useless. I mean numbers, not mechanic. Don't forget, taken damage redirects to enemies, but now I can't use this ability because both ends of this isn't good enough. I take too much damage under this effect and my enemies don't. So I will never use this ability to make damage because now damage is ridiculous. You should add damage multiplier and then it will be very interesting aoe ability.If you really want to "grants her some damage capabilities".

 

- Blessing

It was good. It gets better.

[Phoenix86]

EV needs a "final burst".

 

if the target dies prematurely, it lets out a large energy pulse. Make the energy pulse equal to half the total of the remaining pulses.

 

Simplest fix for the current form. Penalizing people for killing enemies is just counter intuitive and anti-fun.

 

this, it should release all the "energy stored" on kill

[kelladros]

As an avid Trinity player I was wary when I heard of the changes being made to link, but saw that it was a necessary nerf. I mean as much fun as it is to solo everything ever while linked it does take away some of the skill and danger of the battles. So after much testing I have this to say about Trinity's changes.

 

Well of Life- Absolutely love the changes to this, the buff the animation change, its just awesome, I use it way more now and find it much more useful.

 

Energy Vampire- Also love the new animations and and whatnot, the effect is really cool. I like the idea of the pulses of energy and after playing and adjusting my style I found it to be a great change. I would however ask DE to look into adding something to it, as the major problem I found with it was enemies dying before they could pulse, or after maybe one pulse. I was thinking that changing it so that when the unit that it has been cast on dies, it will also release a pulse. That way if you cast it and the unit dies before it can release any pulses it will not be a complete was of an ability. It would also add the strategy of deciding whether or not to kill the guy right away of let him live for more energy.

 

Link- Was worried about it being to big of a nerf, then I became an energy link spider and fun was had by all. The new link was a needed change, it makes my battles more intense and fun, the old link was fun too, just in more of a "I am an immortal god fear me" kind of way. So far I have found that a slight play style adjustment and maybe a different mod or two still results in link being kickass, useful and fun.

 

Blessing- Hell ya. That is all.

 

All in all DE you guys never let me down, keep up the awesome work!

[SnuGGleZz]

I just want to throw my own idea for energy vampire but it was possibly better said by someone else that if this new pulse thing is kept for it to be effective with lower end mobs and general just give some energy after casted mob is dead in either close proximity to the target or just to who ever ended it.

Edited September 7, 2013 by MuZiKaL

[Ddublu]

I agree with the idea on a visual particle that leaves the target of WoL and goes to the players. That would be a pretty cool effect. Either that or instead have it be a more direct heal, that way she preforms the job she's meant for; which is healing/support. On further thinking it does fulfill that purpose in a way, and it is technically easier to hit an enemy with the WoL than crazed tenno players, but that'd be the challenge right? :P.

Perhaps another cool idea would be that it'd be a self-casted ability that would make Trinity heal nearby players instead. I actually think this would be a much better idea since even some bosses could be hard to hit with the ability.

Also I too hope that Link makes Trinity immune to Distruptors as that'd basically mean life or death in some cases.

[Stormquake]

So New Trinity is a lot better than old Trinity. I really love how the new Energy Vampire can stun bosses, even ones such as Hyena and Jackal. Trinity's main weakness before this update was defense missions, but allowing her to link to multiple targets actually gives her a fair amount of technical AoE damage, while taking the last enemy in a wave and turning them into a floating health and energy sink is awesome as well. Taking away the invincibility on Link was actually something I was rather excited about as I never really liked being invincible permanently. Sure, it was fun for a while, but eventually missions just got too easy. Now her kit requires more tactic and synergy between all 4 of her abilities, something that every designed Warframe should strive to achieve. When I feel the need to use all 4 of my abilities on a frame, then that frame was well-designed. I sincerely thank you for the Trinity change and hope that more great fixes will come out in the future.

 

Sincerely,

  Stormquake

[Keltik0ne]

I can't believe so many people are ok with continuity and constitution making EV weaker, only a few people seem to be noticing.

 

WoL still redundant, if you slot blessing.

 

Link, not tried it for soloing, but looks like that could be what it's only use is. If your in a team, it's worthless since you rarely generate enough aggro to be the target.

 

Blessing, you didn't break it, which is much appreciated.