Trinity 9.8: Feedback Thread

[kamimegurine]

Energy Vampire Sucks right now... I have to wait like 10s-15s to get the full energy pack... before just cast 1 shot = 100 energy... know how the hell am i supposed to keep blessing up??? oh yeah and the other players kill my Vampire target before it can give more than 20 energy... how the hell am i supposed to deal with that??? I loved trinity now i hate here so much useless tier... worst frame ever now

Link is ok but i need to keep up my blessing

Edited September 7, 2013 by kamimegurine

[Farex]

Mal ein deutsches Feedback zu Trinity:

 

Well of Life: Meiner Meinung nach immernoch nutzlos, da es nur Lebenspunkte wiederherstellt und keine Schilde. Hat daher keinen allzu großen Nutzen, wenn die Schilde erst durchbrochen werden müssen und wenn das passiert, bietet Blessing (auch wenn die Energiekosten höher sind) eine viel bessere Alternative, da man nicht erst noch Schaden verursachen muss, sondern sowohl Lebenspunkte als auch Schilde komplett aufgefüllt werden und man für eine kurze Zeit unverwundbar wird.

Mein Vorschlag, diese Fähigkeit wieder attraktiver zu machen, wäre, wenn ein mit Well of Life betroffenes Ziel stirbt, bei allen Spielern im Umkreis von 25-30m je nach Stufe der Fähigkeit 50/100/150/200 Schild und Lebenspunkte wiederherstellt.

 

Energy Vampire: Wie sich schon viele über die neue "Wirkung" dieser Fähigkeit beschwert haben, bin auch ich kein Fan davon. In Situationen bei denen es darauf ankommt, schnell Energie zu regenerieren, um nicht von Gegnerhorden überrannt zu werden, ist der Nutzen dieser Fähigkeit stark eingeschränkt. Gerade bei starken Feinden wird man sich wohl kaum mitten in die Menge begeben um innerhalb von mehreren Sekunden in denen man feindlichem Feuer ausgesetzt ist und mit ein wenig Pech auch stirbt, 50-100 Energie zu regenerieren. Bei der alten Version von EV wurde die Fähigkeit ihrem Namen noch gerecht, indem man durch verursachten Schaden Energie regenerierte. Auf einen starken Feind gewirkt, konnte jeder Spieler das Maximum an Energie gewinnen und selbst auf schwächere Feinde gewirkt, proftierte immer jemand davon. Daher sollte man meiner Meinung nach die alte Version von EV wieder einführen oder wie in einem anderen Post geschrieben wurde, die Wirkung der verbleibenden Pulse beim Tod des Ziels freisetzen, sodass man als Trinity keine Energie verliert, wenn das Ziel innerhalb von 2-3sek. nachdem EV gewirkt wurde stirbt. Ich möchte noch hinzufügen, dass Trinity als "unterstützender Warframe" (bzw Warframe mit Heiltechnologie) gedacht war, warum sollte EV dann Schaden verursachen?

 

Link: Die Änderungen an dieser Fähigkeit sind meiner Meinung nach gerechtfertigt, da Trinity in Kombination von EV, Link und Blessing dauerhaft unverwundbar sein konnte.

 

Blessing: Mit den hier vorgenommenen Änderungen bin ich ebenfalls zufrieden und kann mich über nichts beklagen.

 

Ich hoffe ihr nehmt sowohl meine Kritik, als auch meine Vorschläge zur Kenntniss und denkt vielleicht ein wenig darüber nach, ob man diese im Ganzen oder in kleinen Teilen umsetzen kann.

[YagoXiten]

Well of Life:

 

10x  health increase on the target so players can actually heal off of the target before it dies. And the healing is high enough to be useful now. These are both well intentioned changes, but, ultimately, didn't really do much. Why? The healing is still redundant with Blessing, and still only useful if you've taken significant health damage, which usually tends to be the time you want to be running and not fighting. So whilst it's useful on occasion, generally speaking, it ends up lackluster. It has a stun now, which is a nice crowd control thing. That's ok, but the ability should still just be reworked.

 

How about a shorter stun but some % damage amplify on the target? It's supportive, but also let's Trinity get in on being some of the damage. Or some mild Ammo restore?

Energy Vampire:

 

The target now takes damage over time, gets stunned, and pulses Energy every so many seconds (seems to be based upon the total duration of the power, I believe only ever 4 pulses total, though). This just...destroyed this ability. Most enemies die so quick it's pointless to use this, you'll end up losing Energy and your team will get basically nothing. You can cleverly use Well of Life to keep the target alive so you gain Energy, but 1. Energy takes forever to come breaking the flow of the fast-paced game and making it so that when someone needs energy /now/, they just die or have to wait and 2. Well of Life counter-combos this because it begs your allies to kick the target whilst it's down.

 

You know what would be a nice change? Making it so that when you mark the target, damaging the target restores Energy based upon the damage dealt, exactly like before, but in a small to medium sized AoE around the target. Now you have to be in melee or close range to get the Energy restore, which adds risk for a really squishy frame like Trinity (though she still retains her really fun mechanic of never running out of Energy and being supportive), and it makes the spell easier to support your team, rather than the old version where you had to tell everyone else to stop hitting the marked targets so your poor Ash ally could get some Energy.

 

Everyone loved this abilty of Trinity.

 

You destroyed it.

 

I know it gave her the Energy to constantly spam, and if her powers were strong enough or something that'd be overpowered, but she was UNDERpowered. And you nerfed her and her main mechanic that made her fun.

 

Link:

I get why you removed the invulnerability. You could stagger cast this and Blessing to be permanent god-mode and never run out of Energy, and the huge damage it would deal to a boss when they tried to fight you was a bit absurd. And I get making it AoE, because now she can still be relevant instead of before where Link was kind of awkward on like defense missions when you were swarmed, damaging that one guy...but it seems to do A LOT of damage now, like, not sure at the moment, I haven't extensively tested (and it's hard to test anyways) but it seems like 100% of damage taken pre-mitigation is take is splashed to ALL of the targets in range.

 

Why not make it like, 30% damage reduction, and that 30% that is reduced is splashed to an area around Trinity. Once again, she has to be up close and personal to do her AoE damage, and it wouldn't be as high, so it's still more of a supportive ability.

Blessing:
 

If we want to make Trinity less permanently invulnerable (as indicated by the Link changes) because it was broken, why decrease the long cast? I always found the long cast was a nice way to balance it. If it needed more balance for the invulnerabilty, reduce the duration to 6 seconds and make Energy Vampire more castable. She still has always full Energy if she plays well, and she can keep the invulnerability up, but more cast times = more windows to fall, and with the changes I detailed above for Energy Vampire, she'd have to be up close and personal really risking herself.

 

In sum, these changes feel rather directionless and poorly thought out. Trinity players lost their one gimmick and really unique playstyle the frame had, and were given more damage as compensation. The one thing the support shouldn't care all that much about, mind you. It'd be like stripping Loki of his invisibility or Volt of his speed or Frost of his Snow Globe to give them a power that throws fluffy bunnies.

 

Glad I just made Volt and like him, because I'm probably going to shelf Trinity for a long time...which is a real same considering I've got some 97 hours of playtime on her.

[Melkia]

The new changes are quite interesting(well of life especially), but a  couple of things bother me:

 

-How's energy vampire damage calculated? Looks to me like it does a certain % of damage of the total enemy health, but i have to say it's not that much, even with a maxed focus. In addition to that it would be cool if higher levels of the skill give faster pulses or larger pulse range(or both XD)

 

- Link it's still pretty cool, even though i feel the damage reduction should scale with Focus mod(just like fire skin and iron skin). I have tried it on a low lvl corpus mission(lv25) and when swarmed, was fun seeing all of them kill themselves. I dunno how it handles on Grineer when higher armor values come in play. It's also cool that the knockdown/stun resistance it's still there. 

 

That's all i got for now. 

Edited September 7, 2013 by Melkia

[Satwo]

its about time trinity lost her invincibility.

link has been needing a complete rehaul for a long time. it turned her into a tank when she was ment to be a support.

all you trinity lovers can suck it. rhino had his downfall, and now you can accept it too. frankly trinity still has one of the most OP skills in the game, so you have no reason to complain.

trinity finally works the way shes supposed to.

[Zanzibarr11]

I actually really like the new tweaks to the abilities. It was too easy before to just stand in a group of infested and have them slowly kill themselves. The only thing I would like the have changed further is the well of life ability. Personally, I think it should be an area spell that creates a well on the ground where the caster is pointing (like Vauban's bounce ability) and anyone standing in the well has their health regenerated. With each level, you could increase the size and amount of health healed per tick. Other than that, all the new tweaks really give trinity more of a niche, rather than the skinny tank she used to be.

[Althix]

oh god.....

Satwo no she didn't lost her invincibility. In fact she is not only immune to damage but also strikes back. She also have 2 CC abilities.

Thing is that if i aggro mobs on some distance from a pod and i use vampire, my entire party can shoot at mob and get energy. Now they MUST be near target in order to get this energy. So they must leave their firepoints, this means mobs will live longer and this is very very uncomfortably and in case of survival mode can be punishing.

Thing is that as Trinity i still can't die and i still best tank so you can suck it rhino boy. I can EV some ancient far far away and be good with my energy regen. And i can have blessing on and link on. Problem is that this is a lot of needless movements i must make.

So basically in order to operate at same efficiency i need to use all three abilities at the same time, when before this nerf i could use only one or two.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Althix

[Ripcat]

I was hoping that Energy Vampire and Well of Life would be not something you cast on a target, but stationary objects with a limited duration and radius. On one had it would make them more viable but it would make game play a little easier with the current power of these skills. If they were modified again, it might work. This is a big mobility game and standing around to get the max benefit of energy or health isn't something players would be able to do all the time.

[rangeless]

Trinity is actually advertised correctly now: a healer and support class, and not an immortal solo beast. 

[YagoXiten]

Trinity is actually advertised correctly now: a healer and support class, and not an immortal solo beast. 

And, like most supports in most games, is now S#&$.

[SirEdwin]

And, like most supports in most games, is now S#&$.

yes, being able to fully restore health and shields to all team-mates while also giving them 18 seconds of damage immunity is clearly totally useless.... The amount of stupidity on the forums after a patch is amazing.

[Casardis]

Satwo no she didn't lost her invincibility. In fact she is not only immune to damage but also strikes back. She also have 2 CC abilities.

 

I'd like to address this little nitpick I'm having by reading these posts.

 

How is stunning a single enemy crowd control? It isn't. It's just that she now has two stun ability that can be most effectively used on either heavy units, or bosses.

 

[ss4chris]

yes, being able to fully restore health and shields to all team-mates while also giving them 18 seconds of damage immunity is clearly totally useless.... The amount of stupidity on the forums after a patch is amazing.

18 secs if you    have continuity and constituion maxed and  in. and with   having D slots  its realyl hard to squeeze in everything you need.

  new topic

whats a  good  build for trinity now?

 so far with 0 forma I have    abilities 2-4 in, Constitution, Continuity, Redirection, Vigor, Streamline and the pointless  Focus for    EV...   I have no idea why they did that. I had to drop flow for this  cuz  EV sux without   Focus it seems.

[Casardis]

 so far with 0 forma I have    abilities 2-4 in, Constitution, Continuity, Redirection, Vigor, Streamline and the pointless  Focus for    EV...   I have no idea why they did that. I had to drop flow for this  cuz  EV sux without   Focus it seems.

I run without Focus and EV is still a boss killer. Instead of using Focus, I'd rather put Stretch to increase the range of EV's energy pulse (it seems to be around 20m when maxed, and 25-26m with Stretch maxed; tested using waypoint on target enemy).

 

However, Focus does make it give back more energy per pulse, but I'm not sure if it's worth the 11 capacity). I hope that they fix the pulse delays being longer with duration mods, along with buffing the energy gain.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Casardis

[SilentGod]

Well I like the energy change it seems effective when your being CCed pretty hard and makes it easier, sure it runs out quickly if your target dies quickly but it seems effective on high hp targets such as bosses, ancients, etc. and allows for for extra dmg that one would never have and energy regen which is decent it simplifies many things, the link ability seems to be a hard nerf, although the aoe dmg is interesting, the negative effect is that the main tanking ability has been snatched away from trinity. Perhaps more buffs in blessing such as lowering the energy cost and extending the duration to bring back that tank/support that trinity can offer.

[Jhonrock]

Now i have one more slot for mods because Link ability has become useless. Great!

Serious, i'm really disappointed with that change in how the ability works. It was an excelent ability before, both for defense as offense.

[YagoXiten]

yes, being able to fully restore health and shields to all team-mates while also giving them 18 seconds of damage immunity is clearly totally useless.... The amount of stupidity on the forums after a patch is amazing.

 

18 secs if you    have continuity and constituion maxed and  in. and with   having D slots  its realyl hard to squeeze in everything you need.

 

 

 

 

Not to mention that old Trinity did that more consistently, because Energy Vampire could actually be reasonably used.

Edited September 7, 2013 by YagoXiten

[Mak_Gohae]

its about time trinity lost her invincibility.

link has been needing a complete rehaul for a long time. it turned her into a tank when she was ment to be a support.

all you trinity lovers can suck it. rhino had his downfall, and now you can accept it too. frankly trinity still has one of the most OP skills in the game, so you have no reason to complain.

trinity finally works the way shes supposed to.

 

This is the reason why DE shouldn't listen to the players.

 

" I lost my invul while i still had 3 CCs to keep the enemy from causing damage so you had to loose your one escape ability, HAHAHHAH!!!"

 

Silliness to the max.

[RicHSAD]

Well of Life: Now plays reaction animation, Life is 10x multiplied allowing players to leech enough health out.

 

Not a very useful skill to be honest. There is never really a moment where I go "better cast Well of Life to get some life back". It just doesn't happen. Either I'm safe under Blessing or I'm dead. The CC is most useful part of the skill now, but the way it makes the target invincible confuses a lot of people.

 

Suggestion: Well of Life should be more like the new Energy Vampire. Have it tick while the target is CCed. Personally, I would also change the skill to regen Shield instead of Life and leave the healing to Blessing. This would make skill 1 actually useful as a minor sustain when Blessing is not required and it would also have great synergy with the new Link.

 

Energy Vampire: Now plays reaction animation and doesn't require damage to get energy. Instead target radiates a set amount of energy every couple of seconds. Also does damage to the target (Damage scales with strength mod)

 

Interesting change, but the skill is often wasted by your teamates blowing the shiny blue target. The damage seems quite poor too.

 

Suggestion: Have Energy Vampire tick when the target dies. This would at least ensure that you get two ticks out of the skill regardless of how fast the target is killed. Having the skill do AoE damage on ticks could be an idea too.

 

Link: No longer damage immunity changed to damage reduction, now links to several targets at once amplifying the incoming damage. Increased radius search for link targets.

 

Hard to convince me to use this skill right now. Damage isn't great and neither is the damage reduction. Right now I'd rather save my energy for Blessing than use it on Link.

 

Suggestion: Make Well of Life useful like I suggested could help this skill. Still, I feel like it needs a bit more damage or damage reduction.

 

Blessing: Animation speed changes and timing. No longer wait till end of casting animation to get power effects.

 

Good change.

[Casardis]

Interesting change, but the skill is often wasted by your teamates blowing the shiny blue target. The damage seems quite poor too.

 

It seems quite poor, but as of now, it's percentage based, which makes you deal massive damage against bosses (you can reach around 7k damage against Hyena [did that earlier], and probably around 40k with Phorid with each pulse).

Edited September 7, 2013 by Casardis

[marharth]

I posted why I dislike this in the update topic here https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/102835-update-98/page-26#entry1186316

I'll post what I think should be done to fix the frame here.

Link should be changed so it splits damage between all targets linked, instead of splitting the damage done to trinity. That way trinity can help way more in huge crowds by doing significant aoe damage. For example if you used link in a crowd of 10 enemies within a certain radius of you any damage done to one of the 10 would link a percentage of damage to all of the others as well. Upgrading could increase the percentage of damage linked. Heres a example of what I mean, if anyone plays dota

Well of Life should be a healing pulse that comes from trinity. Upgrading it should increase how fast it pulses or how much it heals. Should heal at least 150-200 health every second at max.

Energy siphon should be attached to an enemy and have particle effects drain out of the enemy and go to friendly frames and trinity. Upgrading it should increase the energy it restores. It should restore near 100 per second at max.

Blessing should no longer be a heal. Having 2 healing skills makes it so you hardly ever use one over the other depending on which is better. Blessing should restore shields and give invulnerability to the entire teams shields for a reasonable time (Maybe somewhere around 20 seconds at max.) That way the ult does not heal, and it does not stop toxic enemies. That makes it so you can still heal people with well of life instead of ult spamming. Should also have some kind of cooldown added. Upgrading it could increase how long it lasts.

Edited September 7, 2013 by marharth

[Liechea]

I totally saw this coming. I wouldn't complain as much I would use Blessing as my new Link since Link is kind of like Rhino's Iron Skin from U8. Though I don't approve of Energy Vampire. For crying out loud I get more Energy quicker when I'm killing than I am waiting. Pretty ridiculous unless I got Siphon with me. 

 

What I think? Of it so far? 

Bad. End of Story.

 

Well of Life, I hardly ever use it still. I just Press 4 and Problem solved. It's good for Cheap Energy costs but its a waste of  Mod space if you don't have a use for it., although its still very good.

 

Energy Vampire, is okay. It's a good idea to shoot and such at other things while the Leech kicks in, nonetheless its still bad since I earn energy faster by killing them rather than just waiting. 

 

Link, just sucks. Like Rhino's Bad Iron Skin day except with DMG Reflection. I rather use blessing than this garbage. It's a waste of mod space right now. Ended up replacing it with something else.

 

Blessing, Nothing much except the casting speed is good.

 

Considering I have to add Stretch and Focus to make Trinity's skill more effective is just horrid. Feels like a waste of space since i could put either: Streamline, Flow, Constitution, Continuity and Rage (yeah coz of the new Vamp and Link). 

 

But Trinity is a Trinity. I'll will remain with her even if the skills are just bad and Link has been nerfed. I saw this day coming too and I guess I'll be okay with it as it might expand my skills compared to Rhino in U8.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Ephesus

[PvtToma]

its about time trinity lost her invincibility.

link has been needing a complete rehaul for a long time. it turned her into a tank when she was ment to be a support.

all you trinity lovers can suck it. rhino had his downfall, and now you can accept it too. frankly trinity still has one of the most OP skills in the game, so you have no reason to complain.

trinity finally works the way shes supposed to.

 

Well, even with only the damage reduction, if a Trinity has enough shield and health, it's not really much of a problem. I can cast Link AND Torid(C-2) myself without much problem. It's like Overheat now, with higher damage(assuming you had Ogris/Torid) and higher damage reduction.

Now, the only problem is the EV. I'm not sure if it's intended, but if you increase the duration(Continuity) the EV actually gives out less energy over time(since it gives energy for ONLY 4 pulses, so in 10 seconds it only gives 1 pulse every 2.5 seconds), making it a problem, since Continuity helps in keeping Blessing and Link up longer.

[DEDENX]

I always find it funny how people say that they're losing interest because the game is too easy, but the second an ability is changed to provide some actual challenge they flip out and/or threaten to quit.   *cough* Iron Skin *cough*

 

People need to keep in mind that this is the first pass of a powers rework.  It's not going to be perfect.

 

Give the developers a break.  Let them fiddle with the knobs and dials a bit in the background and try a few more passes at getting the abilities just right before you crucify them for "ruining" your favourite warframe.  Until then, chill out, play the game, and see if you can help them work things out.

 

As for my feedback...  Personally, I'm rather glad that the invulnerability builds are gone.  As for the powers, well..

 

 

Well Of Life:  I like the new crowd control aspect of the ability.  The ability for the enemy to soak a bit more damage before dying is also nice -- it actually allows you to get some health back before the enemy is killed now.  The only real concern I have with the power is how it works with bosses.  I haven't tried it personally, but I'd assume that the crowd control and damage-soaking parts of the ability just wouldn't apply, right?  If not, that might be something to address.

 

Energy Vampire:  I'm not really a huge fan of this new version of the ability.(especially with duration mods seeming to affect the pulse timing), but I can live with it.  That being said, the power might benefit from having the same sort of damage soaking that Well Of Life applies.  At a minimum it'd keep the enemy alive long enough to recoup some of the energy expended to use the power.  Oh, and the visuals need some serious polish.

 

Link:  I've got mixed feelings on this one.  I don't really miss the invulnerability so much, but it doesn't feel like the power really does what it's advertised to do.  The damage it deals and the damage reduction it applies both seem very weak for the energy cost.  Of course, that may just be that I'm attempting to use the power in the wrong way in the wrong circumstances.  We'll see how it goes I guess.

 

Blessing:  Works a lot nicer now that you can just hit the key when someone in your group has gotten themselves in trouble.  It took me a few games before I realized this is now the warframe's go to panic button ability.  It's a bit weird but it seems to work out okay.

[Llyssa]

I'm a little confused by energy vampire's nerf. Upgrading EV is a BAD thing, as you'll get less energy, since it takes longer to get the energy back, *but* it ends when the target dies.

 

It seems completely bizarre that the best usage of it is to target an enemy and then proceed to ignore them completely. However, merely being in battery mode does not stop them from attacking anyone.

 

It's very odd to use now.