Trinity 9.8: Feedback Thread

[Andoryuu]

It's very interesting to see lots of players liking the new EV mentioning they play solo. Yeah, if you play alone, you can afford to not kill some mob, let him hanging around, restore your energy and whatnot. But if you actually try it in online play with other people (you know, what support frame is supposed to be used for), you would notice there is so much damage flying around you can't keep one mob alive for full 16s of modded duration just to get those 100 energy. And combination WoL+EV isn't really an answer, because instead of using slots just for EV, Blessing and Streamline, you need EV, Bless, Stream, Focus, WoL and Stretch to be effective. (not even mentioning WoL practically cancels dot from EV because of different HP pool)

 

And lots of players liking the new Link says they never needed its invulnerability anyway. What was the highest level you ever met? Because at some point even one mob is enough to down you during that 1.5s cast time window between two Blessings, so you have to make sure you survive using Link as a bridge. Don't know if change in Blessing will balance missing Link, we'll see. But until damage overhaul (which I thought would frame changes come with), Link's damage is really negligible and probably won't justify using slot place for that.

 

Trinity had her place as group's medic. She was unique and now devs are trying to bring her closer to the other 13 damage/control frames...

Edited September 7, 2013 by Andoryuu

[Cropz]

Before I throw in my two cents, here is what I based my opinion regarding the changes on: 

-It was only recently that I built Trinity, and I have worked her up to 30 over the past few days. The changes were implemented when I was in the mid-twenties, so I am familiar with the old mechanics, but won't claim to have extensive experience playing a max-level Trinity.

-I have used Trinity exclusively in Solo play, on Eris, Neptune, and Ceres.

 

That said, here are my thoughts:

 

Well of Life - The added CC makes the ability awesome, it is probably the main reason to push this button. Taking a large threat out of the equation when taking down a room full of enemies is incredibly useful. The heal is a nice bonus, though I rarely use the ability for its healing capabilities. 

 

Energy Vampire - The change to pulsing energy restoration took some getting used to, as the ability used to be instantly gratifying. However, the added stagger is lovely, providing me with the ability to disable another large threat. Streamline and Focus ensure that even if the target dies immediately after the cast, the first tick nearly restores the cost of the ability. Throw in an Energy Siphon aura and there is no reason not to push this button. 

Note that this is from a Solo perspective, in multiplayer this is basically free energy for everyone, and that's assuming the target gets shot down immediately.

 

Link - Possibly more awesome than before. Linking multiple targets turns this into an offensive ability, making it fun to dive into the fray without boiling down to mindlessly running around, being invincible. 

I only miss the invincibility that Link used to offer when I am in a really bad spot, with tons of incoming damage. However, the changes to Well of Life and Energy Vampire ensure things rarely go south. And of course there's always Blessing.

 

Blessing - Full heal, full shield restore, Invincibility. Functions better than before, 'nuff said.

 

Concluding: The update changed the way Trinity plays (at least for me it did), but in a positive way. Rather than playing reactively, she now has a lot more control over the field. Not to mention how potent she becomes when properly combining abilities.

[kamimegurine]

How does ppl say that EV is a Crowd Control power???

Crowd... ummm its like when you are at the mall and there is only 1 person shopping and you say OMG this mall is so Crowd :S ppl everywhere!!! ... 1 Target is not Crowd Control,

 

Crowd = Many (10 or more) / 1 target = Less or Singular

 

Aslo really? to take them out??? Even a lv 200 Heavy grineer dont last longer than 2-4s...

Edited September 7, 2013 by kamimegurine

[Overkill.]

my observations after a run with my lobstershark:

- energy vampire: it's perfect now. it acts as a stun lock whilst giving energy and doing a bit of damage. also works on those annoying bombards and such.

- link: practially useless. even ~lv20 grineer chewed through my shields quite easily.

- blessing: practically the same but at least it doesn't feel so slow now = great

 

I don't mind not having invurnability with link, since blessing already does that, but the percentage of damage link actually negitates seems too small.

 

link needs some looking at, but that aside I actually like my trinity more now

really perfect? remember trinity have no ofensive ability i just use energy vamp and get barely any back (max mod) so it mean i have to run around as a healer to try to get energy orb to keep my team up...

before i think i can do something like battle rescue now when link go to reduce dmg i dont think i wana stand in the midle of the gun fight to pick up my fallen mate.

dont know about other change but it just kick the trinity to the useless lvl now. i guess she gona have to stand next to volt in the shelf.

[Casardis]

As I've already given my feedback, I'll just add this little one.

I do think that Well of Life should be rid off, but not completely. Keep the ability to lock a target like it does now but make it so that it's a different support power, not a healing one. As people said, healing isn't the only thing a support character does. Additionally, it's already redundant since we have Blessing.

You can actually tell from all feedback so far that most people don't care about the healing properties of it, only its ability tk lock an enemy.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Casardis

[Deadmice]

All i gotta say is Well of life + energy vamp is the way to go. And i think Vamp behaves like Miasma and gets double damage ticks non host. had some juicy double 14k ticks on a welled phorid. On a side note well of life healing enemies and giving them more heath is interesting lol, makes for some annoying things though. such as a level 26 ancient going from 1 straith shot to 4 to kill but eh, still fun. Another thing is i noticed link did a helluva lot more damage now, and if you really needed to not take any damage while using it just click blessing

 

Edit: just ran an ambulas solo, and i didn't lose more than 10hp ever, with liberal link. Now of course if you plan on standing in S#&$ with link putting in at least shields, should be a given. -gasp- its like she has 2 polarities for health/shields already!

Edited September 7, 2013 by Deadmice

[Hallowieners]

I like the new changes so far, Well of Life is still pretty useless, needs to be switched out for a new skill or buffed somehow, Energy Vampire is easier to use so as long as you pick some secluded enemy. Blessing is much better now.  I don't mind the Link change since Trinity is a supporting Frame, still 66% damage reduction is more than what most frames will ever have. I don't know why people are using the argument of Trinity not being able to tank high level mobs. That's just plain silly. 

Edited September 7, 2013 by DesuEx

[Grizzytron]

WoL change is at least a step forward, but I'm going to stay away from it until we get the upcoming changes to damage and armor since the health boost makes high-level foes into even moreso obnoxious bullet sponges in the current system.

 

The new direction for EV is novel, but having to not kill the glowing target is rather counter-intuitive and disruptive to the flow of a game where the primary objective is killing things quickly (often with the boatloads of fire-and-forget AoE from various weapons and powers) and glowing/blinking is in all other cases a visual "kill me" indicator. It's also rather counter-productive that duration-boosting effects from Aura Helmet, Continuity, and Constitution lengthen the pulsing interval and cause a net result of less energy-per-second returned from the skill; at the very least I'd ask that some rethinking be done with regards to how these effects interact with the ability, and at most I'd say to go back to the drawing board and try something else entirely.

 

I understand why Link couldn't stay as a second invulnerability skill for Trinity, since staggering Link and Blessing more-or-less turned the player into an nearly-immortal demigod who also happened to reflect damage at a nearby target; this is still possible with the change to Blessing being nearly-instant and new Link and Blessing being able to overlap, but it's much more prohibitively expensive than it was before. The change to make Link connect to multiple enemies is a mostly-welcomed improvement, but with the new incarnation of EV it can be a huge liability. Overall I think Link has been changed for the better.

 

Blessing was amazing before - now it's amazing-er.

[Nyhu]

Need hold tritri configuration .... Or vampire aoe like ultimate ...

[DarianWulfbane]

I've recently gotten my hands on Trinity and have been playing her for a few hours now. I do really like Well of Life, both for support and for strategic kills. With a high enough power gun, you can effectively use it to stun an enemy and take them down. Energy Vampire seems a bit less useful. Yes, it often stunlocks an enemy while it is active, but if that enemy finds themselves on the recieving end of any attack, you had might as well kiss your energy goodbye. Link seems very fair to me; with it, I can take on a large crowd of grineer with just my dual vastos. As for Blessing, I cannot give feedback as I have not had the space to equip it yet. All in all, I feel as though Trinity is a good support frame. She can hold her own solo, but she is also a great contribution to the group. If anything needed a changing, I would say do something to make enemies affected by Energy Vampire a bit tougher, so you do not have Trinities dropping 35-50 energy on an enemy just to have it all wasted.

[Ketec]

Energy vamp pulsing is broken yea - the mobs often die before u get anything out of it.

Perhaps shoot out a stronger pulse after they die?

[Inofor]

Energy Vampire is way too strong against bosses. It crowd controls them for the entire duration and replenishes the mana it needs to sustain itself while supplying others with mana. The mana part is fine, but the CC is too strong.

In short, the battle becomes 'CC boss infinitely, kill it while it's stunned'.

 

On another note, Energy Vampire ticks 12k on Ambulas and 16k on Phorid. This means that 4 ticks is enough to take like 90% of the boss's health. This does not happen against Hek: it ticks ~750 on his shield and ~500 on his armour. This is most definitely unintended and a bug, so I'm not complaining about this as a part of the balance. This needs fixing.

 

Whenever I try to use Well of Life's life-increasing feature to make my Energy Vampire more accessible (so that the target doesn't die right away), the target's health is reset to the normal once I cast Energy Vampire on the target. Please fix this so Trinity can have some synergy between abilities.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Inofor

[juuu]

I think Trinity has suffered overall, especially in gameplay and movement. Scott said he wants her to be viable in Solo as well, and assumably for all levels of play, but she has become far less flexible for anything that's not Defense or Boss missions.

 

Well of Life: Now doubly redundant with Blessing and EV. It shares the same stun mechanic as EV, with EV being much more useful. Also, using it to make sure the enemy has a lower chance of dying so EV can keep on ticking is inefficient and silly. If it can't stand to have merit by itself, don't include it.

 

Energy Vampire: Gives out a decent amount of energy...if you have the time to wait around for it. The stun mechanic is interesting, but waiting around for energy to pulse is a time sink. Also, waiting for energy to pulse out gives the enemies more time to swarm in on you and gun you down. So while it's technically possible to gain energy for Blessing whenever you want (especially in Solo mode), things become quickly overwhelming as you try and not die within ~20 meters of your target. Hey, guess what? Enemies can still shoot you farther from 20 meters away. If you don't have a Shade, good luck.

 

Link: For a third ability, it's a waste of energy now. Level 20-30 Grineer mobs were busting through my shields and definitely not doing enough damage to them to alleviate damage done to Trinity. Now it's just a nice way for me to identify enemy locations and to prevent stagger. Casting Link and then Blessing consumes a massive amount of energy and mostly turns her EV-dependent, which really limits how and where she can move, as mentioned above. I'm going to be much more hesitant to go in the middle of the fray to help rez a team member now. If I don't have enough energy, I would have to cast EV and wait around for Blessing. No point in even having this skill anymore. It either needs a massive rework in mechanic or to be reverted to what it was before.

 

Blessing: As fine as it's always been.

 

Overall, I don't think Trinity would be viable at lower rank levels or without the right mods (which everyone does not have). She still needs a rework, for the same two skills -- WoL and EV. WoL is still useless and EV makes you a sitting duck. Why not make EV a self-buff for the whole team with a time limit, and let everyone shoot any enemy and gain energy that way? Then, everyone gets to engage with the buff and control the pace they want to go at instead of being dependent on time and enemy.

 

Link should be taken out altogether. If it can't function as a cheap (energy wise) skill to allow Trinity move around more easily to help support her teammates, and instead has to play the Blessing-EV game, then don't keep it in. It does very little damage for the damage she receives herself, and costs too much energy for a stagger prevention skill. It went from being a core part of her skillset to a luxury skill. It's only worthwhile if you have the energy to spare. 

Edited September 7, 2013 by juuu

[medetec]

I like all the changes but the Energy Vampire one, and I like the idea behind the Energy Vampire it just has a problem in execution.

 

I like that you dont have to micromanage your team into trading tamage on a marked target for everyone to get energy... but the problem now is that people still accidentally kill the energy battery before it is effective and that slow stationary pulses are not well suited to fast paced gameplay. Also increased effect duration seems to spread out the pulses instead of giving more pulses, which feels bad. 

 

Theres a ton of possible solutions, most of them already suggested but here we go:

 

- Vamped target releases all remaining energy when it dies. 

- Vamped target gives all energy up front in a single pulse, EV given a cooldown for use. 

- Vamped target is put into stasis for the duration of the effect (cannot be damaged) and is instantly killed when the effect ends to prevent trolling exterminate / defense missions. Stasis and KO does not effect bosses or pvp players.

- Vamp changed to self target "Energy Pulse" skill

- Vamped targets work like old vamp, damage taken up to cap restores energy but to the entire team instead of just the player doing damage. 

 

I'm sure there's even more, but any of the above would make the skill not dependent on other players keeping a random enemy alive and staying stationary for long periods of time...

[Nyhu]

"- Vamped targets work like old vamp, damage taken up to cap restores energy but to the entire team instead of just the player doing damage."

 

Link nerf.... OK i play ultimate for help a fallen mate.. But Vamp... So useless X).

medetec's solution is great !

 

Or give me the old mechanics please X). -Link -Vamp RIP tritri ^^

Edited September 7, 2013 by Nyhu

[Tikalon]

Trinity... The 2nd Warframe of mine... Built her to hunt down bosses for rare resources if I'm playing SOLO/Private with my friend or saving people on Assasination (Boss) missions if playing Online. The reason I'm posting here is changes in skills. I've tested them today on low-level mission just to get te idea of changes in that skills.

 

So, here it is :

 

Well of Life - I haven't used this skill to often either on light enemies or heavy. Like most other peole here said, Blessing was way better (even costing 100 ENERGY and with long cast-animation) in tough situation. While on test-misson there was no heavy enemies so just put this on a enemy who was hiding behind a big box. And... I was slightly surprised when his head showed up from behind the box, so approached him... Then I was like "OH MY! HE'S LEVITATING!!!" Next second he was so dead. Anyway, I'm really glad how it works now.

 

Energy Vampire - I don't know what to say about it. From one side it's good because all players don't have to shoot "marked" enemy, but from the other side...

1) If you are playing in a group of people who haven't read the patch-notes and they don't know about changes in how this skill works, no one gets enough energy;

and (yes, I don't own "time-increasing" mods for Warframe skills)

2) You have have to wait for way too long to get maximum possible energy (and it is stated in previous comments/posts that it seems that tick-time INCREASES with respective mods. It makes this skill even worse).

 

Link - as I said in the beginning of this post, I've used this skill against bosses on Solo-runs or to help people to get up (from bleed out state) in Online-runs (boss, defense, whatever). On test mission enemies didn't do much damage to me, but I recall that they've been able to damage my shields even when Link was active (prior the patch). So... There is nothing I can say about it.

 

Blessing - Used one time during the sets mission. I like the changes in animation speed. I hope it will help every Trinity to save more players in Online-runs.

 

So, my current opinion is :

1 ] Skill became better after patch, I like the changes and how it works;

2 ] Idea is good, but as stated in posts above, doesn't fit in current game pace, so i don't like it; 

3 ] Since I haven't been able to properly test this skill, there is nothing I can say here;

4 ] As stated above, I like the changes which is made to this skill.

 

Suggestions

 

 

Energy Vampire.

Waiting  for 10 (or more?) seconds to gain maximum energy from this skill - it's pretty bad...

That's why we need an ability to kill marked enemy to gain energy back. I've seen posts in which people asked that killed enemy will release a more powerfull pulse-wave, which will restore 50% of "not drained" energy. I don't know, if stated % is good amount, but I know that 20 meters radius for "energy restore effect" isn't enough (taking into account the Stretch module).

 

So I suggest to replace the blue radial "Ancient Healer"-like effect from enemy with dark-blue glow (like shields began to charge up,but darker) on every Tenno affected, increase range of "energy restoration effect" up to 45-55 meters(static, doesn't affected by mods/helmets) [why so much? Visit a J3 Golem in Solo on Nightmare with "Vampire" and "Low gravity" game modes] and make killing enemy restore some percent of "not restored over time" energy (50-60 meter radius for this effect [static range, doesn't affected by mods/helmets]).

 

 

That's it.

 

 

P.S. Forgive me for my English, it's not my native language.

[Mainabi]

continuation mods and helmet do affect energy vampire, the question is, does it emits more energy now?

 

instead 4x pulse in 9 sec (so every 2.25s a pulse) does it emit 7.32 pulses let's round it down to 7 = 7x 25 energy?

 

or will the pulse be stretched to match the 16.47s duration?

 

and will emit a pulse every 4.11s?

[L7ON]

Please, rollback with EV and link. With the change trinity is not more a support. I can not blessing with Ev anymore because it is not efficient, i cant revive players because i die with link. Trinity frame has been destroyed

[SignumCruxis]

There was little wrong with link before, you still lost your shields while it was up and bad energy management would have you dead in the blink of an eye.

[GottFaust]

I love how so few people have figured out that the massive HP buff from Well of Life synergies extremely well with the new Energy Vampire.

The only change that's necessary at this point is fixing how Energy Vampire scales with Continuity/Constitution in my opinion.

[GTG3000]

Older form of Link was only really useful against bosses.

 

Trinity was sorely lacking some kind of AoE for solo play. Not saying the new Link is the savior, but it is a step in the right direction. I was hoping more for a targeted version, that split damage between enemies rather than you...but yeah.

 

She never needed no AoE! That was her unique playstyle! That's what made her special! She is not a damaging frame, she is a surviving frame, and she was absolutely gorgeous and fun to play with!

 

What is it with DE, creating unique and awesome stuff, and then deciding "nope, F*** that, scrap it and make something that works like others instead".

 

Link wasn't OP because it wasn't a damaging ability! And now it still isn't a good damaging ability, because it only works if you are taking damage, and, SURPRISE, without Blessing it is a suicide. Sure you can still make it work with blessing, but I see no reason for making it so other than "how dare they have fun with it.". 

 

Say what you will, but I want the old Trinity back. I want to have a frame that survives damn well anything and comes to rise her teammates up when they need it, not a caster that sits near an EV-d and WoL-d enemy and keeps Blessing up. That's not fun.

 

I hope Scott will start to freaking listen to what frame-using community thinks before doing changes ever again. I can understand that he supposed to listen to feedback now, but he had a lot of feedback before and I can damn well swear that if you were a Trinity player you asked for WoL fix and maybe for a Blessing nerf.

 

*sigh* sudden rage attack, out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Constructively, I say what I did before in this thread -

 

Trinity wasn't and isn't the only one who needs energy RIGHT NOW. AoE pulse is nice and all, but I would suggest swapping the mechanics of WoL and EV. Make WoL pulse with added damage resistance and bastilling, while EV would be about the same as it was.

 

Link... Well, I miss old link. Just like many things that were nerfed because they "didn't fit vision", Link was a very unique power that created unique gameplay of a melee support frame, that couldn't do much damage, but couldn't be stopped either. Guess what is the needed quality of support in such a dynamic game?

[Mak_Gohae]

How does ppl say that EV is a Crowd Control power???

Crowd... ummm its like when you are at the mall and there is only 1 person shopping and you say OMG this mall is so Crowd :S ppl everywhere!!! ... 1 Target is not Crowd Control,

 

Crowd = Many (10 or more) / 1 target = Less or Singular

 

Aslo really? to take them out??? Even a lv 200 Heavy grineer dont last longer than 2-4s...

 

So...... why dont you make up a new term for CC specifically for single targets, push it like mad when it catches on, then come back to us and complain about it. Cause as for this moment... everyone knows what people mean when they say CC when explaining her power.

 

 

What is it with DE, creating unique and awesome stuff, and then deciding "nope, F*** that, scrap it and make something that works like others instead".

 

I think problem is that this ends up with unique players playing the frame completely while the rest focus on something else and they want most people to play the frame completely. So they end up making it easier for the masses.

 

Rhino is a perfect example, Rhino was an excellent CCer but everyone just focused on IS and few actually CCed with him. IS was changed so people could use other power and people didnt use the other powers they just kept complaining and now we end up with what we have here. Which is basically basically Banshee 2.0.

[Nightfallen]

Trinity worthless now! After personally fighting against all three factions at high lvl you might as well not have any skills but blessing.. even then if you are with a good group that becomes worthless too.Just like old trinity 1 is worthless cause things die too fast... on old trinity 2 was useful with a high damage gun to get all you energy back with 1 2 shots, now things die so dast there is no point to casting you might get 1 pulse 2 if your really lucky and most players are way to far away to benift anyway. Which leads me to link WTH DE!!! I end up running and ducking for cover even with it on???? What is the point of returning damage when you can't freaking survive and have to take cover taking NO damage???? TRINITY WORTHLESS BROKEN NOW!!

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Trinity worthless now! After personally fighting against all three factions at high lvl you might as well not have any skills but blessing.. even then if you are with a good group that becomes worthless too.Just like old trinity 1 is worthless cause things die too fast... on old trinity 2 was useful with a high damage gun to get all you energy back with 1 2 shots, now things die so dast there is no point to casting you might get 1 pulse 2 if your really lucky and most players are way to far away to benift anyway. Which leads me to link WTH DE!!! I end up running and ducking for cover even with it on???? What is the point of returning damage when you can't freaking survive and have to take cover taking NO damage???? TRINITY WORTHLESS BROKEN NOW!!

WoL is great crowd control for single targets. EV is slightly less great crowd control. Link is now a makeshift AOE skill, though it could do with increasing damage returned more; perhaps 2-3x like antimatter drop or absorb.

[Nightfallen]

Thing die too fast for any of that CC to be useful. Link is horrible period now try fight lvl 60 plus anything and not have to run immediatly negating ALL damage it might do. Also why would you want to CC all targets what teh point of link if you aren't taking damage cause everything is CC'd. No synergy broken frame now.