Ember 9.8: Feedback Thread

[Medane]

That's funny. At least I had a great time with the "Survive or DIE" alert yesterday with my Ember's World on Fire. Take a cozy inside corner and just keep spamming that move. What is it with people underestimating the World on Fire nowadays?

Then why not ask them to revise the whole frame instead of bringing back the "one and only" useful skill on her? Besides I find World on Fire pretty darn useful nowadays. Perhaps you don't have a fully pumped Ember in your arsenal.

Funny, I think the majority of us have more experience with her than you in this thread.

 

Run Xini past level 80 and then tell me she's useful.  WOF does little even with maxed damage, Reactored.  So low levels, she's still "good" but now she's boring as I can't melee tank anything anymore.  With no word on this supposedly redone damage system that'll be implemented supposedly in update 10, ember still remains useless and will still be even more boring.  Seriously DE.  AOE AOE AOE useless skill. 

 

My biggest point now is that she's squishier than Nova with less damage capabilities and is SLOWER.  Balancing, ahahaha, oh my lord.  You're killin' me DE!  

[Zarlockk]

Reminder, her main damaging abilities damage in are around her what forces you to get close to enemy. Before over heat with maxed focus (91% damage reduction) was just enough to get in and out of pack of high level enemies( around level 80) now if the number goes below 70% she can be renamed from Ember to Suicider. If you wanted to buff Overheat, then you should increase damage radius, because you need to hug enemy to damage him with this ability. And you should make World on Fire to damage everyone in the radius not only 3 targets. Or make a totally new ability instead.

[GTG3000]

That was a HORRIBLE decision, DE!

 

Ember's fast becoming a DoT-only frame, and that one-dimentionality of hers will KILL her.

 

I urge you to reconsider any chages to her. PLEASE offer different powers! Rework Fireblast so it instead of damaging, denies space (sort of like bastille, but not quite). Rework World on Fire so it deals damage much like Dota's Luna's ultimate.

 

And Overheat's shift to offensive is a bad, bad move.

 

I understand that Scott probably doesn't play every frame until he fully understands what people want to be fixed, but dear god did the point fly over his head.

 

I'm glad for under the hood bug fixes, but other changes make me hope the feedback from this thread will be taken into account.

 

He could change the fireball to be a quick projectile, that would explode like, say, thunderbolt arrows, throwing enemies away, which would make for a fun and effective cc.

 

He could change the ring to constantly apply some debuff inside itself or something like that.

 

But changing Overheat after he fixed it for good? Gosh...

[Lysander26]

The biggest problem was that Overheat was the only thing about Ember that actually scaled well, since it was a rather large percentage instead of just a straight number.

 

The problem with all damaging Warframe abilities is the huge health pools of high level mobs, and having any reasonable number on a Warframe will eventually make it obsolete, where as percentage based skills or those that simply work, like Chaos or Snow Globe or Bastille are still useful.

 

Damage 2.0 will probably be the biggest "buff" for Ember and the rest, but taking away the only thing that reasonably works and doesn't just tickle enemies in the late game is just a huge kick in the pants.

[TheGambler_BR]

Then why not ask them to revise the whole frame instead of bringing back the "one and only" useful skill on her? Besides I find World on Fire pretty darn useful nowadays. Perhaps you don't have a fully pumped Ember in your arsenal.

 

What is it with everyone simply assuming I'm completely unaware of everything?

 

I don't want the old Overheat back. As a matter of fact, I disliked it as it really didn't fir giving Ember a tanking skill when she's an offensive caster.

However, it was, and you can't deny it, her ONLY utility skill.

As it stands now, Ember currently only has DoT, AoE damaging powers. And that is BORING. Effectively, she only has one power now, which is the most cost-effective, highest damaging one.

 

PS:

 

That was a HORRIBLE decision, DE!

 

Ember's fast becoming a DoT-only frame, and that one-dimentionality of hers will KILL her.

 

I urge you to reconsider any chages to her. PLEASE offer different powers! Rework Fireblast so it instead of damaging, denies space (sort of like bastille, but not quite). Rework World on Fire so it deals damage much like Dota's Luna's ultimate.

 

And Overheat's shift to offensive is a bad, bad move.

It was my first frame (after my starter, Loki). And the first frame I forma'd. And the only I forma'd twice. So don't go saying I don't have enough playtime with her.

Edited September 6, 2013 by TheGambler_BR

[inforsir89]

GG ember is bad. it has good dmg yes on level 50 anceint it did around 520 dmg a tick but when a level 50 small infested hits me for over 100 dmg in overheat F*** That. oh yeah and the ranged it actually hits them at is basically u Hugging them

Edited September 6, 2013 by inforsir89

[Roogan]

Looks like we have the problem of all these people getting ember for the wrong reason, she was allways intended to be a damage dealer offense frame, that's her roll.

 

I do think her powers still need a bit of a rework, but you guys should not be whining about a dps frame not having the best shield in the game.

 

 

Now more on topic, 3 of her powers are very similar, everything but fireball is a AOE damage attack, with overheat being much shorter range

 

Back in the old days, Fireblast was a much tighter ring which seemed to do much more damage, and worked very well as both a offensive attack, and a defensive ability, because it would kill small fry chasing/charging you, and at least weaken bigger enemys, and could be used in very strategic ways, as well as also running around leaving flames and doom everywhere >:D  I think this was not only more fun, but much better in use with her other powers.

 

On lower levels, when the damage done by overheat actually did something, it was pretty entertaining and satisfying to use, something that most of these people dont seem to understand, its actually a very unique and satisfying power and I along with others I'm sure appreciate it being fixed to how it was supposed to work. Thanks.

 

As for WoF, this power is weird, and yet another high damage AOE alt like all the other frames have, and frankly its pretty boring to actually use.

I think this power should be scrapped for something else honestly. here's a few simple ideas I have:

A large very high damage directional cone attack that lasts for a few seconds spitting out a whirlwind of flames, that works smiler to a shotgun, things close to the "nozzle" of the attack, you, take higher damage, with targets farther away taking less damage, but it's spread out at that distance and will hit more targets.

 

Another idea I have that is much easier to explain, is similar to Overheat, but as a powerful team buff.

 

Actually, when looking at the changes to other frame's powers, like Volt and Rhino, Overheat should prolly be a team use power at this point anyway :3 Though there are other frames that have powers that are personal buffs too, like Saryn's Contagion.  (I personally prefer it as a personal ability, but it would be fine as long as you dont need to weaken the power to balance it for team use.)

 

 

(Btw, I got Ember back in closed beta a long time ago, as one of my first frames. I kept her after she "broke" because I knew DE would eventually fix her.)

 

P.S. having a taaadddd higher speed would help her a lot with many of her abilities, and is key for proper overheat use.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Roogan

[Spellcasterz]

Well well,welcome to the "could tank once,shall tank no more"-club founded by Rhino.

I would like to add something to the discussion but to be frank I cant beyond anything that already has been said.

As has been shown with IS DE doesnt seem to want frames that downright can tank past mid-level stuff,as disheartening(and questionable)as that may be.

[Lunaticked]

Well that's 5 forma down the drain.

[AlienOvermind]

Okay, I checked Overheat in action. Overall new Overhaet is BAD. No, it's still good for infested: Overheat staggers them and deals good damage. But former Overheat was a nice shield agains other factions and now it's ruined: greeners on Ceres will kill you before you know. So, poor poor Ember, why do you hate her so much, DE? Overheat was not as good as Iron Skin in terms of defence anyway, but with Overheat Ember was a decent choice any enemy and now she's usable only with infested.

And more ranting. Most warframes have skills for different sitautions - like Volt can attack with lightning, but can also speed up party or use shield. Rhino can attack, defend himself, buff party's attack power. And so on. Now Ember: attack with fire, attack with fire, attack with fire, attack with fire. Really. You took away her only defensive ability and gave another attack skill, is it a joke? She doesn't need four fire attack skills. Actually it would be nice to even replace fireblast to some utility skill too, like you did with Rhino's third ability.

TL;DR: Ember is nerfed to the floor. She needs: overheat defence buff (preferrably with poison/disrupt immunity, yes), replacing one of other skills to utility skill (best candidate is Fireblast in my opinion). Until it's done, we'll shed our tears for Ember.

Edited September 6, 2013 by AlienOvermind

[FoxyKabam]

so overheat is trash now

 

 

cool

[Maljas23]

FIreball still does pathetic dmg for its cost. DE, please abandon the thought of having a dot-based Fireball. Increase the dmg and make it explode.. its a fireball for god's sake... I want to play Ember, but right now she is just too weak to be worth using in anything above level 30.

 

If you are going to make Ember a caster Warframe, make her abilities actually worth using...

 

Actually that leads to another question for me:  If she is suppose to be a caster Warframe, why must she be so incredible slow? I am just not understanding the logic behind Ember at all.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Maljas23

[Detroxicek]

Iam disapointed with the ember change now he can no longer survive anything so Frost is now the one for aoe gameplay i guess.

[Ryomichi]

i think we should make a poll about overheat revert to original or update. I personally think that previous overheat is one of the most important skill ember had, because without overheat, ember will just keep dying in high lvl missions, since most of her skills are just burning enemies, nothing to protect herself.

[naishx]

wtf why did you change overheat. It was at least useful. Now my Forma and Time is Lost. Thats a great motiviation to push another frame. (not)

If do things like this you should even give the Forma back.

Now i have to search for my new favorit frame. This sucks.

Edited September 6, 2013 by naishx

[lautalocos]

I do not like the ember skin changes at all. Please change it back as it was fun for a majority of ember players and factored into why we chose ember. I should not have to roll a Rhino to be defensive and not all female frames should be squish.

 

It also counter balanced the uselessness of world on fire in a vast majority of situations due to other factions besides infested being contained within the game and allowed Ember to have a use in other situations.

 

I like to be a tank and I like to play female frames and I do not like Rhino. I won't play until this is either reverted or a frame is released which fills in the role you have now taken away. It was simply put, a bad decision. Sorry, I like to be candid and frank.

 

As a developer, there is a certain trust. Have us spend resources and time on a frame/class, do not rework the class enough that it no longer fills the roles it previously could. That is a blindside and sort of a betrayal of that trust. Introduce a new frame. If a tank frame is now introduced that is female, I will outright basically know that this was just a way to sell plat. Therefore, if a tank frame is introduced I will craft it, no plat. :D

 

What encourages us to spend time and/or resources on things we have no clue if you will outright obliterate and make unadaptive whatever we work on? It feels the same as a gear treadmill if you step away for a while and nothing works except the new stuff. I want the ability to step away from the game and not feel like my entire arsenal will be useless several months from now and force me to buy new widgets.

 

I forma'ed my ember many times and now I will probably -never- use it again. I did not want to hop onto the Rhino bandwagon and many of your Ember players feel this way.

 

It is true that many of your players are content to move from frame to frame and playstyle to playstyle like locusts. I play other frames but even though Nova and Rhino and et al exist and are able to be incredibly powerful in many situations.. I decided to main Ember. Many ember players are not content to be locusts. If you create an atmosphere that encourages locust type activity, it will surely encourage people to move from game to game. A hive is a hive after all.

so, did you already test the bility? in low level missions and high level missions? or did you just complain without even seeing if the changes where as drastic as you think?

[DarkSephirot]

Agree to me too wanna OVERHEAT to go back at original state plz read all voting for returnig of overhear to back

[Keltik0ne]

Fireball - worthless, waste of a mod slot.

 

Fire blast - holy crap, it's worse than before, wow, is the range bugged or something ?

 

Fire skin .................................................... oh dear.

 

 

Nova  - play her till you nerf her stufff too.

[Jiala]

Bad move DE. Ember may not have been meant to be a tank, but without it shes got no survivability at all. Making her useless in anything higher level then say mars. Overheat didn't take aggro, which rhino's iron skin does, she only takes aggro if she runs right in amongst the enemies. With Overheat as it was, used tactically, she had a chance to survive in t3 void runs and be of some use.

 

Now she goes squish after only a few energy rounds. Even with maxed vitality and redirection on her, she's slow and squishy. Welp. Looks like I'm shelving her and going to main as trinity.

 

DE why you hatin' on your female frames?

[Astronaut]

I'm glad that i just built banshee & nova, i have some other warframes to play until they (HOPEFULLY) revert the changes to overheat.

 

Please, Please revert it. Ember was my favorite warframe.

[HackShield]

sorry but her overheat was the only ability she taked a places in amap where arent infested >.> and the output dmg cant never be worthy enjoy... cause at bosses or somewhere you can stick that 200 dmg in.... you know i want to get lesser dmg for dps ill got weapons >.<

[Helicitous]

Long-time player, first time poster. :D

 

Ember always came across as the 'caster who was able to cut it as a close-in scrapper. The mix of tanking and damage was the entire appeal of the frame, for me. Without Overheat, I probably wouldn't have bothered rebuying the frame after the account reset.

 

(Yes, the damage abilities scale poorly. No, I wouldn't use Ember for a T3 Defense run. She's a fun time when we go running mid-level missions for resources and etc.)

 

Nova and Excalibur are both more appealing if I want a frame whose abilities are all offense. So - if DE intends to stick to making Ember a 'damage only' caster, I'm going to save myself some annoyance and switch to those.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Helicitous

[Sahfiel]

Consider your options:

1. The dps is made so ridiculous and widespread that it makes Ember and Nova comparable. (This will cause players to complain, rightfully so because female pure dps squishy is Nova's niche..) This makes Nova useless.

2. Ember remains this way in a nerfed state, loses to Nova because Nova is both more adaptive now, fast enough to dodge (Ember is slow even with speed mods), and Nova does lulz powerful damage.

3. Target cap is removed and all damage resistance is removed from enemies to WOF thus making WOF capable of protecting the ember in high level missions because you have to kill stuff fast enough to be a defense effectively IE Nova. Basically Ember players will just spam WOF and you will have more 4 spammers with shallow depth in the game. This simply reinforces the belief that many players have that you simply want to put frames with win buttons in the game and not encourage adaptive playstyles, which ember + WOF was. Adaptive.

 

4. Change things back, revise them, have her retain the ability to WOF or Overheat (but have to choose between them, not have both active at the same time maybe) and become the adaptive min maxer frame and fulfill her own niche that no other frames are competing for which will allow her to mesh well with a team. Overheat is useful in some situations, WOF others. This does not step on Nova or Rhino's toes and encourages a varied playstyle which is positive in an mmo. It also does not betray the trust of people who have mained Ember in the past whereas clearly we were shown that Ember -was- about these things and trying to fix it now is a mistake. Make a new frame if you need a frame to fulfill these niches. Be a predictable company and do not indulge on chaos because it has a habit of turning players off to a game when they feel their progress toward individuality in their playstyle is being stepped on or forcefully changed repeatedly.. Not all female frames have to be squishy and I find it insulting that the concensus seems to be so.

 

We want alternative playstyles which ember was effective at giving us. We do not want tiers or frames which are better at everything. Ember and Nova cannot fulfill the full dps glass cannon female role at the same time and due to how Nova is engineered, changing Ember this way simply makes the game an exercise in futility. I would rather not play an Ember while fully realizing that Nova is better at everything that the developers have suddenly decided she should be while allowing us to experience her in a different way all of this time.

 

To be clear, this is leagues worse than the Rhino change as far as being unpredictable. Rhino can still do what he used to for the most part, so Rhino fans tend to still like Rhino.

 

This is like taking a good series of anime/video game/etc and changing it from the ground up without any respect for the old fans. It is sensationalist and a product of the "change everything because change is always good" atmosphere. Hipster development choice, if you will.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Sahfiel

[HomeyCDawg]

I haven't had a chance to play yet today, but I'm wondering did they increase the radius on Overheat? Or do you still have to run up and literally touch an enemy for it to burn them? Storming an enemy to touch them with Overheat doesn't sound like a smart idea without that high damage reduction.

 

Also, can anyone tell how much DR she gets now, compared to the 91% (with focus) she was getting before.

 

Edit: (Also, it says they fixed the range with Fire Blast, but it doesn't mention if they fixed the DOT for it, as before it was only damaging on cast.)

Edited September 6, 2013 by HomeyCDawg

[lostinrehab]

First off let me say that this is from a min maxing high end everything geared to the teeth perspective as "fun" is subjective.

Currently though at high end she pretty much nothing worth $*#( either due to armor scaling or gun scaling.

Fireball does decent damage but like most if not all damaging 1 skills a properly modded gun will completely out shine it. Does it scale? The damage is high enough for vast majority of the content currently but the damage rework with really show if its good or not.

Overheat for a skill that does damage only in close range its a liability without the massive damage reduction also as said it overlaps with World on fire.

Fireblast for me has always sucked. It only does damage on initial cast and on enemies that stay in the outer ring. The only good is you can stack multiple but this is not worth the energy. This is kind of worthless for fast run in gun style of this game. Also the damage is terrible at high end not worth a slot.

World on fire is ok but due to armor hits the drop off point even on infested at higher level in defense missions. Does well enough to mid enemy level content.

Overall it seems from a high end perspective ember is now a worthless frame. All damage and no utility and the damage she does have due to armor can be useless.

As far as suggestions I really have nothing. This is because I currently feel like caster high damage frames either need to to asinine amounts of damage to justify their place even more so than guns (nova anyone >.>) or they will be useless. Since Ember is meant to be a caster frame she probably needs to BBQ everything on screen to a crisp fast even at high end but that would just cause another issue (see nova nerf threads).