The 9.8. Changes Discussion Thread Merger

[General_Krull]

yeah i was gonna focus grineer b/c corpus are weak and infested.. well.. .fire xD

i have class till 4pm so i should get a video up later tonight.

 

One WOF should def kill heavies but hopefully it's as fast as it was that other T3 i did xD.. who knows with lag and stuff.  I think i'll be ok and get some nice gameplay.

 

I was thinking of who to compare the ulti to, but hey other frames will definitely kill faster my statement was that it's definitely POSSIBLE and not even dare i say horrible.  it's pretty average, maybe slightly above average, for example old mag crush would never kill some of the things i've killed with ember

That because Ember deals damage over time while crush is one single hit. 

What level enemies are you planning on going up against? That matters a lot.

[VelenoHargreaves]

Trinity was/is suppose to be the support, not the VIP of the team, she is there, helps when needed and keeps her work. I know people can say: "She is slow, can't keep up!" Just get a rush mod or learn the Dash'Slash combo and wallrunning speedboost (just start the wallrun and jump immediately. You get a speed boost that helps alot) I do use focus and continuity of my trinity, but not for WOL or EV but for Link and Blessing, those little extra seconds of Reduced Damage and Immortal Team really helps to make our bearings about what to do, even on a defence mission where you dont have more energy drops. Mark one light target (on higher waves) let it there for team boost and keep fighting... The only thing I don't like is that blessing don't heal the Cryopod, but that would tottally break the game xD

[Floipd]

No OP, you see it wrong. They gave us 525MB data to implement more freeze, not fix it. Fixing it would be ridiculous.

[ThePresident777]

Spamming 25 energy is a good way to not have energy for any other ability, let alone an ult.

[Solstic]

People don't use ammo boxes? What's that I smell? Oh, BS.

I just hope there are 2 BPs for the Foundry. A BP to produce 1 at a time and another to produce 5 at at time.

My policy is not to use macros and play the game as is. So stacking on boxes right now would just be a pain.

[HAYABU5A]

them hips..

[ThePresident777]

your perception of fun is based on speed... ok i respect that. i just have to point out that not everyone thinks that way... maybe if you are talking about raids, boss farming and BP farming yes speed is a necessity but being slow doesnt mean that they become useless. maybe to your preferences it might but keep in mind that in some missions like defense and mobile defense you have to sit tight and def up.

and regarding trinity's speed, using a speed mod greatly helps. based on my experience i most of the time end up being ahead compared to most frames when i play... i think its a matter of how you get there, like wall running over obstacles and the likes...

 

The only place where speed does not matter is in small map endless defense.  If you are on a large map endless defense and you get one noob or dumbass, he is going to have you running around the map the entire match trying not to miss loot.  In the case of mobile defense, this same noob/dumbass will start the objective without you.  You'll lose at least 2 minutes getting there and you'll have to run around picking up loot.   You will not make it to extraction and will miss whatever loot dropped on their way to extraction.  The only time you'll get to fight is when he leaves a big mob behind for you to deal with.

 

If you play with better people than this noob or dumbass, then no problem unless you just don't like slow.  But, I play pugs where noobs and dumbasses abound, and I hate slow.  I don't rush.  I kill everything.  But, I like fast and hate missing loot.

Edited September 7, 2013 by ThePresident777

[TunaMayo]

I'd like to point out that some people can't even play the game, and reports of mods disappearing (gameplay feedback).

Supporting my point that updates shouldn't be on Friday.

[General_Krull]

The only place where speed does not matter is in small map endless defense.  If you are on a large map endless defense and you get one noob or dumbass, he is going to have you running around the map the entire match trying not to miss loot.  In the case of mobile defense, this same noob/dumbass will start the objective without you.  You'll lose at least 2 minutes getting there and you'll have to run around picking up loot.   You will not make it too extraction and miss whatever loot dropped on their way to extraction.  The only time you'll get to fight is when he leaves a big mob behind for you to deal with.

 

If you play with better people than this noob or dumbass, then no problem unless you just don't like slow.  But, I play pugs where noobs and dumbasses abound, and I hate slow.  I don't rush.  I kill everything.  But, I like fast and hate missing loot.

Maybe you should try keeping up?

[Ced23Ric]

Hyperbole is the opposite of good feedback.

 

Locking this.

[NixeonLow]

Ember wasn't truly nerfed, she was just changed from mostly offence, to even more offence. A true nerf would be Vauban. If you're good enough at ducking and dodging, then you shouldn't even need 91% damage mitigation. I like these changes to Ember (as a person that uses Ember A LOT, mind you) because it removes the temptation to just press 2 and go make myself a sandwich as my Dethcube does all the work for me. With this next update, they're....wait for it....reworking how damage is dealt! That could mean that this new Overheat is even better for close combat, and with how Fireball and Fireblast have been changed, they'll both be useful. Just wait until update ten to complain, that's what these changes are for; they are meant to prep us for the new damage system.

[General_Krull]

GODS NO! LETS RIOT ABOUT THE CURRENT STATE OF THE GAME BEFORE THE SOON TO BE PLANNED PATCH CHANGES THINGS AND WE HAVE NO IDEA WHATS GOING TO HAPPEN!

 

Seriously. Go ahead and complain before the patch comes out. You must love to complain about the appetizers at dinner too.

I do if the appetizers are some chunk of undefined meatlike substance and a slightly used fruit.

Edited September 7, 2013 by General_Krull

[General_Krull]

Ember wasn't truly nerfed, she was just changed from mostly offence, to even more offence. A true nerf would be Vauban. If you're good enough at ducking and dodging, then you shouldn't even need 91% damage mitigation. I like these changes to Ember (as a person that uses Ember A LOT, mind you) because it removes the temptation to just press 2 and go make myself a sandwich as my Dethcube does all the work for me. With this next update, they're....wait for it....reworking how damage is dealt! That could mean that this new Overheat is even better for close combat, and with how Fireball and Fireblast have been changed, they'll both be useful. Just wait until update ten to complain, that's what these changes are for; they are meant to prep us for the new damage system.

Why not roll out these nerfs at the same time as with damage rework? They went full retard with the implementation. How is it supposed to prep us for the new damage system when you can't even use ember to her full potential in level 50+ missions?

[Mikki79]

I tried playing Trinity a bit, Link seems useless. It doesn't do enough damage nor reduce the damage you take enough to be worth using.

 

Why use 75 energy for some minor damage reduction and tiny bit of damage spread to 3 (or 4?) enemies when you can just cast blessing for a mere 25 more energy and be completely immune to damage while making your teammates immune to damage as well?!? Link is obsolete and a waste of energy, they might as well replace it with something completely different. Like a ranged instant player res or something.

 

Link went from being the best Trinity ability to being the worst, simple as that. Well of life is probably worth it just to keep the Energy Vampire targets alive long enough to give back any energy.

 

Best way to play trinity atm is probably just keep Energy Vampire up on a target constantly while spamming Blessing of Life every time it runs out. Think energy vampire should restore enough energy to keep doing that forever, as long as some dummy doesn't kill you EV target.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Mikki79

[LikeABawsh]

I think we should nerf everything that is fun, usable and efficient at killing things. Then EVERYONE could just QQ about how the enemies are too hard and that every weapon is UP, to which we could cheekily reply "You just suck at the game, huehuehue."

 

 

That way we could have less of these rant threads saying  "the devs don't know how to balance their own game and I could do it so much better hur hur hur" and more threads that actually have solutions to some game play issues that need to be addressed. Perhaps even more threads that are somewhat interesting to read may even appear! Who knows.

 

FFS, get real man, You didn't give any solution to any of the imbalance problems, you just complained about it. A lot. Give us some solutions, or don't mention it at all.

[NixeonLow]

Why not roll out these nerfs at the same time as with damage rework? They went full retard with the implementation. How is it supposed to prep us for the new damage system when you can't even use ember to her full potential in level 50+ missions?

 It seems to me like you're using Ember against Grineer or something, because my Ember deals with level 70+ handily when they're Infested. Play to a Warframe's strengths. Also, (just a matter of personal opinion here, feel free to disagree, not trying to convince you.) I'd much rather have changes made to a Warframe as soon as possible so I can get used to them. 

Again, this post is mostly personal opinion, everyone is entitled to their own ideas. I'm just throwing my opinion out here.

[Hateborne]

I'd like to start off by saying this isn't a hate thread about power changes or nerfs, so if that is what you expected you will be sorely disappointed.

After the livestream when you announced the changes, I was reasonably happy. Power changes were needed, armour a nd elemental changes are going to be great, huzzah! Then I checked the forums and saw all the hate about the power changes.

A lot of the hate revolved around the power changes effectively being nerfs in the current game. I however took up arms and was attempting to defend DEs decisions, saying "when armour and element 2.0 comes, the power changes will come and not be nerfs, but changes."

Then, DESPITE the forums basically screaming for you not to add the power changes in the current armour and element system, you did it anyway. It was never going to end well, couldn't it have waited til update 10?

Now all you have done is change the frames to suit a new game system which you haven't yet implemented, making a lot of players a lot of angry.

I myself haven't played the game since the update, so I am not making any comments about the changes to the warframe powers, only that the timing is all wrong. Armour 2.0 and element 2.0 should have been at the same time as frame changes, now you have just created a lot of palm to forehead action. It is a similar occasion to when you buffed enemy difficulty first, leading to the game being too difficult before we had the changes to cope with it.

Another gripe is that yet again, you have updated the game in a controversial and sizeable manner, on a FRIDAY.

I realise that you may want to work hard all week, then relish in the fruits of your labour over the weekend. But please, in future would it be possible for you to update mid week? Or on mondays? Get the update all ready and raring on Friday, but then release it on Monday morning!

When a big update is released there are bugs and you want us to test and find them, fine. But a lot of people only get to play on weekends and if an update creates a large bug that renders a certain part of the game impossible or no fun to play, that's just not okay (massive fps drops, ember fire blast team killing).

It's also not enjoyable playing with a few minor bugs for a weekend, that you know could have been fixed rapidly the next day had the update been on a friday.

Finally the controversial updates, like the current one, lead certain people to get angry, not play and turn their attention to the forums. This leads to huge amounts of hatred to build up amd flame wars, and I guarantee you will have lost players because of this. Jad the update been midweek, staff would have either been able to update the game or inform the players for in depth of their decisions and prevent them from rage quitting.

Tl:dr, think before you leap when it comes to updates, "should we really change the game in X direction before we change it in Y direction". Please no more updates on Fridays.

 

While I appreciate how to took time to explain it without crying, how often do players REALLY know what they want or how they feel? They are so lost in the fog of war, that they do not see the war for the battle. DE sees the war, but not always each battle. Keep in mind that DE isn't just a bunch of people with spreadsheets. Lots of their stuff is actually play tested heavily. Their vision for their classes in their game may not be what you feel is the correct path. Boils down to DE letting most of us play for free and have the game for free.

 

-Hate

[GottFaust]

"DE, you need to be absolutely perfect and make no more mistakes during the active-development BETA period of your game!"

[Archistopheles]

Sorry, but mistakes are the best way to learn.

 

We as players need to learn to be flexible.

[General_Krull]

 It seems to me like you're using Ember against Grineer or something, because my Ember deals with level 70+ handily when they're Infested. Play to a Warframe's strengths. Also, (just a matter of personal opinion here, feel free to disagree, not trying to convince you.) I'd much rather have changes made to a Warframe as soon as possible so I can get used to them. 

Again, this post is mostly personal opinion, everyone is entitled to their own ideas. I'm just throwing my opinion out here.

I'm not using ember at all.

And against infested ember is good until about 50+ then pretty much anything except volt or frost is better, and against ancients it's actually riskier to use ember than anything else because there that annoying glitch that makes them slide at the speed of sound towards you when they catch on fire.

[XSuzumeX]

I tried playing Trinity a bit, Link seems useless. It doesn't do enough damage nor reduce the damage you take enough to be worth using.

 

Why use 75 energy for some minor damage reduction and tiny bit of damage spread to 3 (or 4?) enemies when you can just cast blessing for a mere 25 more energy and be completely immune to damage while making your teammates immune to damage as well?!? Link is obsolete and a waste of energy, they might as well replace it with something completely different. Like a ranged instant player res or something.

 

Link went from being the best Trinity ability to being the worst, simple as that. Well of life is probably worth it just to keep the Energy Vampire targets alive long enough to give back any energy.

 

Best way to play trinity atm is probably just keep Energy Vampire up on a target constantly while spamming Blessing of Life every time it runs out. Think energy vampire should restore enough energy to keep doing that forever, as long as some dummy doesn't kill you EV target.

the best way was always to do EV with blessing,why have one invincible tenno when you can have 4?

[General_Krull]

While I appreciate how to took time to explain it without crying, how often do players REALLY know what they want or how they feel? They are so lost in the fog of war, that they do not see the war for the battle. DE sees the war, but not always each battle. Keep in mind that DE isn't just a bunch of people with spreadsheets. Lots of their stuff is actually play tested heavily. Their vision for their classes in their game may not be what you feel is the correct path. Boils down to DE letting most of us play for free and have the game for free.

 

-Hate

Play tested heavily? Is that why they released strun wraith with 50% crit rate instead of 20%? They don't test things at all and they don't even use design documents because "they limit what they can do with the game". 

Yes DE can do what they want with their game but if people don't like it they will lose players.

[Tsoe]

balance dude balance... yeah

[Ced23Ric]

Merged all 9.8 threads into one. General Discussion is not a feedback board.

[TunaMayo]

While I appreciate how to took time to explain it without crying, how often do players REALLY know what they want or how they feel? They are so lost in the fog of war, that they do not see the war for the battle. DE sees the war, but not always each battle. Keep in mind that DE isn't just a bunch of people with spreadsheets. Lots of their stuff is actually play tested heavily. Their vision for their classes in their game may not be what you feel is the correct path. Boils down to DE letting most of us play for free and have the game for free.

 

-Hate

 

I am not sure how much of my post you understood, I have not played since the update and I have no issue with the power changes, therefore I am not QQing about anything. I am not saying they are going in the wrong direction, far from it. I don't have an issue with the changes to the frames they have made because I have faith that in further updates, when the fundamentals of the game are changes (armour and element 2.0) the changes will be for the better.

 

What I do have an issue with is that after releasing the ideas for frame changes in the livestream and witnessing that many people had issues with these changes in the CURRENT game, rather than wait and release the frame changes with the fundamental game changes, they simply dumped them into the current game system anyway.

 

Due to armour scaling and elemental damage being less than adequate, this has led to some of the changes being perceived as "nerfs" and led to much backlash and commotion. If DE had simply waited until the armour and element patch, which the power changes are designed to suit, was ready before updating the current power changes, the changes would have been much better received. The same issue occurred when they bumped enemy difficulty.

 

The other issue is simply that updates on Friday mean that gamebreaking bugs, like some people being unable to play, cannot be addressed over the weekend. Meaning some people will not be able to play the game in their down time and simply give up on the game.

 

TL:DR, I am not crying about the direction they are taking; but if they are planning to change a frames powers that renders them less than useful in a current system so that it is more suited to a future patch, either mention it in update notes outlining the future patch, or release them at the same time.