MasterZalm Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 They added more dmg to two of her skills, and just because you dont use them doesnt mean they are 'godawful' as you like to call it. The fireball might be more helpful after the armour rework coming soon. Overheat now does more dmg than it used to. Ember is supposed to be a dps glass cannon, but instead people turned her into a tanky but weak dps. This tradeoff changed that. If taking away her dmg resistance ruined that char for you, you arent playing it right. Your not supposed to take any dmg with her, your supposed to deal dmg with her. You want to tank, play Rhino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanityRobot Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Eh, maybe they aren't because he is bad already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixty5 Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Nerf Slashdash pls. Too powerful for 25 energy. /sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silversponge Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 (edited) He's the most balanced frame he is the best at what he does and what he does is dodge nerfsand buffs and remains inconspicuous like a true ninja... excal's got 99 problems but a nerf aint one (other 99 problems are all the bloodstains he needs to get out due to the massacre that ensues after slash dash :D ) Edited September 7, 2013 by silversponge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanityRobot Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 (edited) They added more dmg to two of her skills, and just because you dont use them doesnt mean they are 'godawful' as you like to call it. Yeah, a PBAoE DoT that does 60-70 damage within hug range is amazing. And a 25 energy ability that does less damage than an unpotato'd Hek. Edited September 7, 2013 by SanityRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravefire Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 You forgot Frost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixty5 Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 You forgot Frost. Shhh we don't want people to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 (edited) Damn man ! You just ruined Frost ! At least Excal didn't have anything to feel guilty about. Edited September 7, 2013 by matto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterZalm Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Like I said, the fireball/overheat maybe more potent after the armour rework. Also, its a 25e skill....dont expect it to be a nuke. Its something you spam, not press and watch fireworks for a few seconds while everything dies. Like I said, just because your used to pressing a button to activate god mode doesnt mean everyone wants that. Personally, unless I'm wanting to farm, I hate when a Nova, Ember, or Mag comes into my game. They ruin my fun of actually fighting off the mobs. When they join, I just sit back, wait for them to kill stuff, then run around and pick up the loot. Not very fun to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate_Shark Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 (edited) They killed the only frame I liked, glad to see others hate these changes. They killed my playstyle. I want to play this game really I do. But ember is just useless now because she doesn't fit my playstyle at all when for 6 months she fit perfectly. Fire and close melee was awesome. Not anymore. :/ One doesn't simply give up forma's and a potato with the frame and mods at high levels on a custom frame. Yes some of us re-spec ember to be more awesome. I will complain about it until I'm blue in the face. It took months to get her the way she is on my build. Thats why I'm so mad about the changes. All that work put into one frame for nothing. People who don't use her much tell me to go to a different frame. lol Not going to put months worth of time to relevel a frame several times over again like I did with ember. They don't realize that at all. So don't tell me to get over it and go into another frame. It took MONTHS to get Ember to be great and fit my playstyle so I'm not going to just give her up. I'm going to fight and express how I feel. Bich moan and complain all I want! I do max possible DPS with WoF and overheat, never really use fireball or the other one. Instead most of the time I put something else in their place. But shes also geared up for close range melee. Shes got a lot of shields and sometimes a health mod too to boost her survivability. These 2 skills being used at the same time with melee makes her a dps melee monster. Now its about the same only if she can survive being in close combat for long enough to be useful. Edited September 7, 2013 by Pirate_Shark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanityRobot Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 (edited) Like I said, the fireball/overheat maybe more potent after the armour rework. Also, its a 25e skill....dont expect it to be a nuke. Its something you spam, not press and watch fireworks for a few seconds while everything dies. Like I said, just because your used to pressing a button to activate god mode doesnt mean everyone wants that. Personally, unless I'm wanting to farm, I hate when a Nova, Ember, or Mag comes into my game. They ruin my fun of actually fighting off the mobs. When they join, I just sit back, wait for them to kill stuff, then run around and pick up the loot. Not very fun to me. Strawman much? Play something a higher level than Kappa if you are having issues with Ember pushing a button and everything dying. Fireball does tickle damage at medium range "Fire Skin" does aoe tickle damage at hug range Fireblast does tickle damage within an arms length...and also damages you because yay bugs World on Fire does tickle damage to 3 enemies at medium range And that sums up Ember. Four nukes that do less damage than an unmodded Skana, and *zero* utility. Oh, and horrible defensive stats. Edited September 7, 2013 by SanityRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAWGUNITALPHA Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 And so DE continues their illogical crusade against new players and player retention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix86 Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 never ever used any item... i dont mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanityRobot Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Honestly, the huge damage reduction was the only redeeming quality Ember had as far as designs go. Every other ability of hers just does varying amounts of tickle damage. So, they see that, and decide that she needs a fourth ability that just does more tickle damage. It's a bewildering design decision...having a frame with four abilities that do exactly the same thing. Even if the damage could kill something above level 30...it's still just mindblowingly lazy design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterZalm Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 (edited) Strawman much? Play something a higher level than Kappa if you are having issues with Ember pushing a button and everything dying. Fireball does tickle damage at medium range "Fire Skin" does aoe tickle damage at hug range Fireblast does tickle damage within an arms length...and also damages you because yay bugs World on Fire does tickle damage to 3 enemies at medium range And that sums up Ember. Four nukes that do less damage than an unmodded Skana, and *zero* utility. Oh, and horrible defensive stats. This is all before the armour patch. Yes, right now they do 'tickle' dmg, but fire dmg could very well be complete armour ignore after the patch. That 'tickle' dmg could very well turn into 'OMG I'M BURNING' dmg in an instant after the patch. This was a change meant for after the rework to damage, and thus, since the rework isnt here yet, it sucks. Now, unless you are psychic, and can tell everyone ehere that Ember will still have poor dps after the armour/damage rework, I suggest you wait to see U10 to see how things work out for her. For all you know, she could replace Nova as the go to nuke. They killed the only frame I liked, glad to see others hate these changes. They killed my playstyle. I want to play this game really I do. But ember is just useless now because she doesn't fit my playstyle at all when for 6 months she fit perfectly. Fire and close melee was awesome. Not anymore. :/ One doesn't simply give up forma's and a potato with the frame and mods at high levels on a custom frame. Yes some of us re-spec ember to be more awesome. I will complain about it until I'm blue in the face. It took months to get her the way she is on my build. Thats why I'm so mad about the changes. All that work put into one frame for nothing. People who don't use her much tell me to go to a different frame. lol Not going to put months worth of time to relevel a frame several times over again like I did with ember. They don't realize that at all. So don't tell me to get over it and go into another frame. It took MONTHS to get Ember to be great and fit my playstyle so I'm not going to just give her up. I'm going to fight and express how I feel. Bich moan and complain all I want! I do max possible DPS with WoF and overheat, never really use fireball or the other one. Instead most of the time I put something else in their place. But shes also geared up for close range melee. Shes got a lot of shields and sometimes a health mod too to boost her survivability. These 2 skills being used at the same time with melee makes her a dps melee monster. Now its about the same only if she can survive being in close combat for long enough to be useful. See, thats why they took away her defence mods on her overheat. Ember isnt supposed to be melee, thats Excal's thing. She is supposed to be close range high dps, but not tanky. Its called high risk, high reward playstyle. It sucks you spent so long making a build that was effectively a broken build, but thats the way games go. Sorry to see you go, but Ember has been changed for the better to balance the game, and we'll do without you. Edited September 7, 2013 by MasterZalm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanityRobot Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 (edited) This is all before the armour patch. Yes, right now they do 'tickle' dmg, but fire dmg could very well be complete armour ignore after the patch. That 'tickle' dmg could very well turn into 'OMG I'M BURNING' dmg in an instant after the patch. This was a change meant for after the rework to damage, and thus, since the rework isnt here yet, it sucks. Now, unless you are psychic, and can tell everyone ehere that Ember will still have poor dps after the armour/damage rework, I suggest you wait to see U10 to see how things work out for her. For all you know, she could replace Nova as the go to nuke. She's still loaded with a bunch of PBAoE DoT's with no defensive ability, no utility, no CC, and atrocious stats. Even if Nova did *zero* damage, MPrime is still arguably one of the strongest offensive utility skills in the game. Edited September 7, 2013 by SanityRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grodgen Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Excal is perfectly fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePresident777 Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Nerframe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDirtTrooper Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Well, it seems they are not removing them permanently just moving them to the foundry in some form. I can handle that, even if I suspect they will be more annoying and require resource farming to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litlit Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Get some friends together. Bring Nova, Frost, then pair Ember with Vauban or even Mag. Ragdolled enemies = no armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterZalm Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Most Frames dont have a defensive skill. Some frames are without utility as well. I can think of a few Frames that have no CC at all. And she has 'atrocious' stats because she isnt built to take dmg? Neither is Banshee, but she seems to do just fine. She might be one of the weakest defensive Frames, but she might very well be one of the most offensive ones with the highest dmg yeild after the patch. Wait and see before you dismiss her as crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravefire Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Shhh we don't want people to know! If I can quote from my livestream Steve himself said there is no plans to change frost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanityRobot Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 (edited) Most Frames dont have a defensive skill. Some frames are without utility as well. I can think of a few Frames that have no CC at all. And she has 'atrocious' stats because she isnt built to take dmg? Neither is Banshee, but she seems to do just fine. She might be one of the weakest defensive Frames, but she might very well be one of the most offensive ones with the highest dmg yeild after the patch. Wait and see before you dismiss her as crap. Name one frame with no defense, utility, or CC that is currently considered anything besides crap. Actually, name one frame besides Ember that has neither defense, utility, or CC. If she isn't built to take damage, why are all of her skills PBAoE DoTs? You do zero damage while dead. Edited September 7, 2013 by SanityRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnokyoDrift Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 These two things happen in every game without a high level, competitive scene: 1. Players hate nerfs to an extreme degree 2. Devs are terrible at balancing things What people cannot grasp is that allowing imbalance to run rampant is destructive to the game. It makes things obsolete and shoehorns people into whatever is most powerful at that moment. In effect, this causes a larger than desirable amount of content in the game to become useless. You do not have to look far to see this in Warframe. Lower level missions are never run without a goal. Weaker weapons that do not fill a role, or that are outclassed in their role, are relegated to becoming a method of gaining mastery points. Trends in gameplay and changes to the metagame will always happen, but they will never create a stable environment while major imbalance is present. From my observations of this forum, the two largest obstacles to balance are the people who want to preserve their overpowered gear, and the people who use underpowered gear but are proud of this fact, and protecting these weapon's status allows them to feel special. Apathy also plays a large role in it, as few people care if 20 melee weapons (or whatever the number is) and however many others are only going to be discarded once mastery has been obtained. On the dev's side, it honestly looks like they don't have much of a clue of what balance looks like. Past balance actions (or lack thereof) show this, including the old mag (the fact that they even had to ask 'hey is mag underpowered?'), the first changes to iron skin, the change to gorgon (and lack of a followup change), the old state of enemies, and the recent poll on weapons (hey guys, what weapons are weak?). It shows that there's little abstract reasoning going on, if they can't even deduce the expected performance of certain things just from their design. Obviously this game does not need a high degree of balance, but the longer it takes to fix it, the bigger the inertia will become. Potential forum backlash doesn't help either. Moving this game towards a state of balance is good, and any attempts to do so should be encouraged. Think rationally for a moment and challenge all the people who wish to perpetuate this current direction of increasing imbalance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterZalm Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Perhaps all of her dmg is supposed to be done with the use of skill, not tank. I know for some this may seem absurd, but avoiding dmg is way better than taking dmg, and unlike other mmos, you dont avoid dmg by sitting there and getting a lucky roll of the dice to 'dodge', you have to actually do it yourself in this game. Now, with that being said, get in close, do your dmg, and hope that your competent teammates use their CC and utility to keep things occupied while you kill things. This IS a co-op game after all. You can, but its not applicable to solo high end, end game content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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