The 9.8. Changes Discussion Thread Merger

[matto]

The human being doesn't like too much changes.

[MasterZalm]

Exactly!

 

NOBODY COMMENT ON THE CURRENT STATE OF THE GAME BECAUSE SOMETHING MIGHT CHANGE IN THE FUTURE!

 

GODS NO! LETS RIOT ABOUT THE CURRENT STATE OF THE GAME BEFORE THE SOON TO BE PLANNED PATCH CHANGES THINGS AND WE HAVE NO IDEA WHATS GOING TO HAPPEN!

 

Seriously. Go ahead and complain before the patch comes out. You must love to complain about the appetizers at dinner too.

[RedPharaoh0817]

ok at first when i heard in livestream that trinity would be changed/nerfed, i was like everybody else who had negative implications about it. statements like "why trinity?" "why not Nova?" and of the likes were also some of my initial statements regarding the change. but then i played for about 6 hours or so doing BP farming and defense missions.

 

i had some realizations and comments about the whole Changing Trinity thing and here are the points

Skills:

1.) well of life

before: the player marks a target green indicating other teammates that shooting that marked target would restore their healths depending on the damage they deal on that target
 

after: the player targets an enemy and lets it float in the air rendering it unable to shoot or move from one place to another. the targeted enemy will then radiate pulses that heal nearby allies for a certain amount of duration. the enemy takes reduced damage or is healed over time (not sure which is which) for it not to die while skill is still in effect.

2.) energy vampire

before: the player marks a target blue indicating that damaging the enemy will let you regain energy depending on the damage that you deal

 

after: the player targets an enemy tagging it with the color blue letting it restore energy to nearby allies, pretty much like the 1st skill but without the heal and immobilizing

3.) link

before: renders caster immune to all sorts of damage and disable while the damage is channeled to a nearby enemy taking full damage

 

after: caster is no longer immune to damage but instead takes reduced damage from attacks while linking to nearby enemies (max of 4 i think) amplifying the damage caster takes to be dealt on linked enemies.

4.) blessing

basically only the time where the skill takes effect is the only thing changed in this skill.

ok here is what i think...

trinity was nerfed! compared to its previous version it is way weaker in terms of tanking ability and slightly on her supporting ability.

but to be honest i had way more FUN playing trinity now than before. and here is why:

1.) the change in WOL and EV made trinity more of a support which she really is. and with the reduced drop rate of ammo and energy, trinity will become more of an asset in most mission runs.

2.) honestly having both link and blessing giving damage immunity is really redundant, making trinity unbeatable with the right mods and gear. making link reduce damage instead of being immune to damage really makes it challenging for trinity players.

3.) the nerf for trinity was a good thing because now role playing will become more diverse. with the decrease in drop rates of energy orbs and ammo, players will really need to become more creative. when to use EV and WOL.

4.) but most importantly, the new trinity is much more challenging! in terms of playstyle and timing of skills. she is actively now a versatile role-player that i believe can be a requirement in high level missions.

i can now classify trinity as one of the few frames in warframe that is not noob friendly making this game more challenging

what i am hoping for:

because of the changes made in all frames and drop rates, i am assuming that DE is indeed aware of warframe being too easy. with what they have said during livestream they want the frames to have there own ROLES instead of all frames rushing every mission coz every frame can stand alone.

in my own conclusion, the new trinity is better if you are looking for a challenge...

[MsTess]

News for you... Nova dont kill S#&$ now and die REALLY quick

Not true at all far as damage output. She is squishy however. 

 

Nova #4 still one shots level 100s if the frame is set up properly (usual nuke frame). Her #1 is even useful. I'm just starting to use her #2 as well.

 

If you think the #4 explosion range nerf was a bad thing, then i'm sorry. It was needed because the frame became boring, and frankly it still is. :)

[PsychedelicSnake]

I can honestly say, before this update, not once have I ever gone "I wish I had a healer."

 

Not asking this every mission now, but I am certainly saying it far more often than I used to.

[Sherbniz]

I know what you mean, Trinity for me was pretty much just a babysitting frame I took with new players or into tough missions to absolutely guarantee survival.

I haven't yet played around with the new changes, but they sound interesting.

[PsychedelicSnake]

The human being doesn't like too much changes.

So... we're Republicans?

*I make fun of all political parties, not just one.

[alchemistjkt]

You must love to complain about the appetizers at dinner too.

cant help but think this is another apples/oranges kinda deal.

when you get an appetizer, you generally know what the main meal will be.

in warframe, the appetizer was a string of nerfs, and the rest is all up in the air.

granted that it will likely be a fix, but again, given DEs track record, them fixing things is not always how it comes out.

for all we know (and have every right to think) armor 2.0 might just break things even worse than they are now or have ever been.

as i said, we have no idea what they are doing.

perhaps all this trouble could have been avoided if they just came out and said "we are doing this..." and gave us a comprehensive list of changes, as opposed to "oh hey we are nerfing things, but it will be better (just dont look at our past mistakes)".

Edited September 7, 2013 by alchemistjkt

[PsychedelicSnake]

I know what you mean, Trinity for me was pretty much just a babysitting frame I took with new players or into tough missions to absolutely guarantee survival.

I haven't yet played around with the new changes, but they sound interesting.

Now that you say that, I can't recall ever using Trinity around veteran players.

[RedPharaoh0817]

its just funny how people keep asking DE to make Warframe more challenging then after the update of making it more challenging, people start to rant about how hard it is for trinity later game.

[PsychedelicSnake]

its just funny how people keep asking DE to make Warframe more challenging then after the update of making it more challenging, people start to rant about how hard it is for trinity later game.

As a community, we're batsh*t insane.

[tigrex]

I played now long enought to acept the new link but Ev is still crap and is not realy helping to get energy.

you have to wait too long to get enough energy and in this time your mates just kill the mob with ev active the old one was way better

[MasterZalm]

cant help but think this is another apples/oranges kinda deal.

when you get an appetizer, you generally know what the main meal will be.

in warframe, the appetizer was a string of nerfs, and the rest is all up in the air.

granted that it will likely be a fix, but again, given DEs track record, them fixing things is not always how it comes out.

for all we know (and have every right to think) armor 2.0 might just break things even worse than they are now or have ever been.

as i said, we have no idea what they are doing.

perhaps all this trouble could have been avoided if they just came out and said "we are doing this..." and gave us a comprehensive list of changes, as opposed to "oh hey we are nerfing things, but it will be better (just dont look at our past mistakes)".

 

Given, this is usually a normal case. Most games give you a preview of the upcoming patches in a 'patch notes' released a few days in advance. This is a point in time where that could alleviate alot of current issues.

 

And honeslty, all this could have been avoided had, like the OP said, DE not released part of a patch. Had they at least released the damage/armour 2.0 WITH the Frame changes, alot of this could have been avoided as well. Either that, or just totally not release any part of the upcoming patch, and instead do it all at once.

[Zakalwe]

There is a distinct difference between a worthwhile nerf and then docking enough off a skill that it no longer has the ability to properly preform its own function.

Past level 50 or so, when enemies really stop dying in one shot from practically anything, you'll end up mobbed by a significant number of enemies who can't be killed as fast as they approach.

When Bastille was still broken to hell and back it didn't really matter - but right now it'd be pretty useless. With Bastille not possessing some sense of priority between one enemy type and the next you'll just end up tossing it down and having it pick up the first 15-19 enemies that come by until they die. This is useless for one of the important parts of what the skill offered up, which was stunning the ever loving hell out of significantly harder to kill enemies like ancients.

They really should pop back in and change things so that it'll drop weaker enemies in order to lift stronger ones. It only takes a few ancients to lose a wave and the amount of risk gets higher as you go. If you can't trust the 75 energy you spend to actually function properly for its role then it isn't good enough anymore.

The new Armor system ought to be soon. That will really let us know if this nerf was too much. If the same issue remains (Can't really expect to kill enemies fast enough to snag the ones you need stunned at high levels that is) then they need to do something to fix that. If its all peachy then its all good.

While I appreciate what you're saying, exploitation of endless defense was (I'm sure) never the intended way for the game to be played.

Let's make a crude example:

If old Bastille let you hit wave 100.

If new Bastille lets you hit wave 50.

What's the /real/ difference between hitting 100 or doing two 50s?

There's no real "challenge" to getting higher, all you can do is focus fire, manage power use as best you can, hope enough energy drops... it was never, ever a benchmark for balance. It was a distraction for the lack of endgame.

Sure, your idea about Bastille prioritising targets would be a good change and would help people hit higher waves, but hitting higher waves shouldn't be the aim here... the aim should be giving feedback for ways to improve the game in MEANINGFUL ways, not elongating mindless grind.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Zakalwe

[TunaMayo]

Exactly!

 

NOBODY COMMENT ON THE CURRENT STATE OF THE GAME BECAUSE SOMETHING MIGHT CHANGE IN THE FUTURE!

  

GODS NO! LETS RIOT ABOUT THE CURRENT STATE OF THE GAME BEFORE THE SOON TO BE PLANNED PATCH CHANGES THINGS AND WE HAVE NO IDEA WHATS GOING TO HAPPEN!

 

Seriously. Go ahead and complain before the patch comes out. You must love to complain about the appetizers at dinner too.

You two do a fantastic job of highlighting one of my points. Thank you.

As I said, don't change in direction X without direction Y.

[RedPharaoh0817]

I played now long enought to acept the new link but Ev is still crap and is not realy helping to get energy.

you have to wait too long to get enough energy and in this time your mates just kill the mob with ev active the old one was way better

thats why EV should be coupled with the use of WOL, making the mob tougher and harder to die long enough for you to squeeze energy out of it...

[PsychedelicSnake]

thats why EV should be coupled with the use of WOL, making the mob tougher and harder to die long enough for you to squeeze energy out of it...

Yay synergy!

 

(kinda)

Edited September 7, 2013 by PsychedelicSnake

[MasterZalm]

  

You two do a fantastic job of highlighting one of my points. Thank you.

As I said, don't change in direction X without direction Y.

 

I'm ok with them releasing part of a patch a little early, to alleviate some of the patch day woes that usually come with the territory of large game changing updates, but releasing warframe builds meant for a new dmg system was a bad part to release early. Give us the new frame, or the new boss, maybe JUST the dmg system, but not the frame rework. That was a bad idea.

[FlanShark]

I was pleasantly surprised that WOL now bastilles (for want of a better word) its single target. Probably not much use as a "this one's marked!" indicator if you have a vauban around, but hey ho.

New EV is.. counterintuitive, works vaguely okay kinda i guess. needs shorter cast time imho, you have to recast it a ton even with ancients around

e: what's this about WOL making things live longer?

Edited September 7, 2013 by FlanShark

[tigrex]

thats why EV should be coupled with the use of WOL, making the mob tougher and harder to die long enough for you to squeeze energy out of it...

not only that the mob dies too fast the range of is bad too you have to hug the damn mob to get energy

Edited September 7, 2013 by tigrex

[General_Krull]

Nurfs that make for more interesting game play, what was the problem again?

 

The game is still in beta, have patience, expect your favorite frame/weapon/mod/style to change.

Well I hope soon cause Volt has been useless for ages apart from speed and shield. Good substitute for gun play my &#!.

The nerfs did not make game play interesting they just stop people form using their favourite frames entirely after around level 40ish. There was no reason to change Trinitys skills at all, same for ember, 91% damage resist is the only thing that made her somewhat viable for high levels and now that is gone.

For bastille I agree it needed a nerf but it always was anti infested, now it's barely even that. So I guess I have to spam vortex more, I hope you don't have epilepsy.

[RedPharaoh0817]

e: what's this about WOL making things live longer?

 

just read about it... the enemy affected will have 10x more life to make WOL last longer

not only that the mob dies too fast the range of is bad too you have to hug the damn mob to get energy

challenging eh? hahaha!

[TunaMayo]

I'm ok with them releasing part of a patch a little early, to alleviate some of the patch day woes that usually come with the territory of large game changing updates, but releasing warframe builds meant for a new dmg system was a bad part to release early. Give us the new frame, or the new boss, maybe JUST the dmg system, but not the frame rework. That was a bad idea.

I heartily agree, "add ons" like bosses and warframes should be added in willy nilly, as with tenno reinforcements.

But something that changes how the fundamental aspect of the game is played should not be released over multiple patches, and simply saving a bit of update stress is not a good excuse.

If you take two steps with your left foot, you're going to fall over.

[alchemistjkt]

I'm ok with them releasing part of a patch a little early, to alleviate some of the patch day woes that usually come with the territory of large game changing updates, but releasing warframe builds meant for a new dmg system was a bad part to release early. Give us the new frame, or the new boss, maybe JUST the dmg system, but not the frame rework. That was a bad idea.

agreed.

[RedDirtTrooper]

We can make the statement that the current changes are bad with full knowledge that future changes may mitigate the damage. Two to three weeks of ember being complete crap are still an issue, especially when as you said, we don't KNOW that the changes will make her any better.