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Here's my equinox rework.


ametueraspirant
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I like equinox. but she has several problems that could stand to be fixed. 

1. she's clunky

2. abilities don't combo very well into each other

3. maim sucks up too much of the power budget with its room clearing abilities

there are a couple ways to fix this, but it's mostly to accomodate for the fact that she actually has 7 abilities as compared to the usual for, yet a lot of time on equinox is spent only using one or two of them at a time and only swapping if necessary.

 

option 1:

Passive

in addition to the equilibrium passive, equinox now has different base stats based on which form he is in.

day form - health: 100 - shields: 125 - armor: 90 - sprint speed: 1.2

night form - health: 125 - shields: 175 - armor 250 - sprint speed: 1.1 

current / max health and shield % is retained when switching between forms

 

Metamorphosis (1)

switching forms now grants buffs that degrade in a curve, retaining most of the bonus stats up until around 25% of the duration remains where drain will speed up until the stats are gone. equinox now also retains any extra shields as overshield until damage is taken to lower them below max shield, rather than deteriorating. equinox can now also retain the buffs of the opposite form alongside the current buffs for 3 seconds, during which she remains in the "in between" form but is not locked out of casting other abilities. the 3 seconds is affected by duration modifiers.

  • make this cast WAY faster, maybe even the mobile hop cast ne'zha and a few other frames recently got.
  • don't lock out casting other abilities after the initial animation is done.

option 2:

similar to the other except metamorphosis is now in the passive as a dash similar to limbo. metamorphosis is replaced with an overcharge type ability that grants the buffs of the current form to allies in a small/medium radius as well as the caster but at 50% effectiveness. this ability can be refreshed while the buff is active.

Augment

alter egonox can now attempt to revive the player when downed, though is susceptible to the same damage and dangers an allied player would be and can die.

 

Now for the changes that would universally affect equinox.

Rest & Rage (2)

Rage is bad. it's probably not bad but I can't tell if it's ever working. The ability is now cast in a cone in front of the player. 8m by 20 degrees angle at max rank.

Equinox throws out a dust cloud that engulfs enemies.

In day form this dust staggers enemies and causes them to become less accurate when firing due to blindness. the particles also ignite parts of enemies, causing them to take small amounts of damage over time. shooting or otherwise damaging these parts detonates the fire causing the enemy to take double damage.

In night form the dust sends enemies to sleep as normal.

the augment is unchanged.

 

Pacify & Provoke (3)

Pretty much unchanged; I like this ability. the only real change I would make if any were to be made is to change damage reduction on enemies to damage resistance on the player and allies within the radius, as sniper fire and enemies that outrange the equinox bubble are a problem. then again that might be too universally strong.

 

Mend & Maim (4)

rather than be another run and bubble. this is becoming a ground affecting AOE that remains in place, similar to oberon's grove of plants.

In day form Equinox fractures the ground around him. causing enemies that stand on it to take slash damage and staggers them. enemies killed on this ground explode in a small slash aoe and give a chance to drop an energy orb. (thematically a health orb would work better here but that sounds like it would make day form too tanky with health conversion and more energy would help day form keep up the killing spree)
In night form Equinox seeds the ground, causing lillies to grow around the area. enemies that stand on this ground have their shields slowly drained away from them and receive a minor cold proc. killing an enemy standing on this ground heals the player that killed it slightly and has a chance of dropping an health orb (again an energy orb would work better thematically here most likely)

each enemy killed on each type of ground also increases the effects of the general aoe effects. increasing shield drain and cold proc slow as well as slash damage dealt.

Augment

as before, the charge of enemies on each type of ground is retained when switching. equinox can now cast multiple instances of this ground, increasing the range. and any existing ground will convert instantly over when equinox shifts form.

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25 minutes ago, ametueraspirant said:

rather than be another run and bubble. this is becoming a ground affecting AOE that remains in place,

I don't like this, as a support caster frame Equinox is very squishy so mobility is a big part of his survival, being able to move while MnM is active is a big advantage for both him and his teammates and should remain unchanged.

29 minutes ago, ametueraspirant said:

alter egonox can now attempt to revive the player when downed, though is susceptible to the same damage and dangers an allied player would be and can die

That 10 second or so duration on that mod makes it a waste of space on your build, would be awesome if they made the spectre permanent untill killed and gave them Equinox's base stats to compensate or something

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2 hours ago, ametueraspirant said:

switching forms

Should not cancel the Mend & Maim / Augment's Pacify & Provoke stacks. That's all it's ever needed.
[And don't you dare mention the abomination that is the "Augment" for Mend & Maim, just ... no.]

2 hours ago, ametueraspirant said:

Rage is bad.

Agreed.

Your suggested change though would heavily nerf Rest,
a short-ranged 20 degree angle cone is utter :poop: compared the non-LOS ranged "blast" AoE it currently has.

You can just change the effect of Rage, the delivery method was never the problem.


BTW, what's up with all the male pronouns? Equinox is female, in both forms.

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14 hours ago, ametueraspirant said:

Metamorphosis (1)

switching forms now grants buffs that degrade in a curve, retaining most of the bonus stats up until around 25% of the duration remains where drain will speed up until the stats are gone. equinox now also retains any extra shields as overshield until damage is taken to lower them below max shield, rather than deteriorating. equinox can now also retain the buffs of the opposite form alongside the current buffs for 3 seconds, during which she remains in the "in between" form but is not locked out of casting other abilities. the 3 seconds is affected by duration modifiers.

  • make this cast WAY faster, maybe even the mobile hop cast ne'zha and a few other frames recently got.
  • don't lock out casting other abilities after the initial animation is done.

option 2:

similar to the other except metamorphosis is now in the passive as a dash similar to limbo. metamorphosis is replaced with an overcharge type ability that grants the buffs of the current form to allies in a small/medium radius as well as the caster but at 50% effectiveness. this ability can be refreshed while the buff is active

I'm not sure what this is getting at. The first "option" sounds just like the current Metamorphosis with different base stats, yet there's an added "don't lock out casting other abilities"...what do you mean by this? Got an example of what you're getting at?

Am highly against option 2, at least with tying it to a dodge roll. In Limbo's case, it makes some intuitive sense: dipping into the Rift provides invulnerability, i.e. it's a defensive action, in the same manner that dodge rolling is defensive for the DR boost. Changing forms for Equinox isn't necessarily defensive. There are other options.

14 hours ago, ametueraspirant said:

Augment

alter egonox can now attempt to revive the player when downed, though is susceptible to the same damage and dangers an allied player would be and can die.

I just wonder why. Barring the issues with Metamorphosis, i.e. the fact it deactivates current skills and screws with everything, a spectre with 300% damage is pretty nice.

14 hours ago, ametueraspirant said:

Rest & Rage (2)

Rage is bad. it's probably not bad but I can't tell if it's ever working. The ability is now cast in a cone in front of the player. 8m by 20 degrees angle at max rank.

Equinox throws out a dust cloud that engulfs enemies.

In day form this dust staggers enemies and causes them to become less accurate when firing due to blindness. the particles also ignite parts of enemies, causing them to take small amounts of damage over time. shooting or otherwise damaging these parts detonates the fire causing the enemy to take double damage.

In night form the dust sends enemies to sleep as normal.

the augment is unchanged.

Very much would rather Rest work the same as it does now. Being able to sleep targets at ranges greater than 8 metres (it currently maxes at 50 metres) is actually really nice, especially since you can do it outside of enemy detection range (which I think is about 15m). This includes sensor drones in Grineer spy missions, just FYI.

Rage is bad because it would be net neutral if it was energy-free: you get to damage enemies more and they get to damage you more. Except it costs energy. I think there's a simpler way to make Rage better: Rad proc enemies for the duration. That's it.

14 hours ago, ametueraspirant said:

Pacify & Provoke (3)

Pretty much unchanged; I like this ability. the only real change I would make if any were to be made is to change damage reduction on enemies to damage resistance on the player and allies within the radius, as sniper fire and enemies that outrange the equinox bubble are a problem. then again that might be too universally strong.

This is something I agree on. I do not believe it would be inherently too strong, so I see no reason why well-chosen energy costs, damage reduction levels, and other mechanics couldn't balance out.

14 hours ago, ametueraspirant said:

Mend & Maim (4)

rather than be another run and bubble. this is becoming a ground affecting AOE that remains in place, similar to oberon's grove of plants.

In day form Equinox fractures the ground around him. causing enemies that stand on it to take slash damage and staggers them. enemies killed on this ground explode in a small slash aoe and give a chance to drop an energy orb. (thematically a health orb would work better here but that sounds like it would make day form too tanky with health conversion and more energy would help day form keep up the killing spree)
In night form Equinox seeds the ground, causing lillies to grow around the area. enemies that stand on this ground have their shields slowly drained away from them and receive a minor cold proc. killing an enemy standing on this ground heals the player that killed it slightly and has a chance of dropping an health orb (again an energy orb would work better thematically here most likely)

each enemy killed on each type of ground also increases the effects of the general aoe effects. increasing shield drain and cold proc slow as well as slash damage dealt.

This sounds like you're aiming for Limbo's structure, i.e. turning Mend and Maim toward Cataclysm, and you're missing some big things:

1. Cataclysm has a huge defensive boon in the fact that enemies beyond a certain range can't deal damage (and Limbo has abilities to deal with enemies inside that range). These changes don't retain that. There seems to be nothing stopping a Bombard rocket from taking out that Equinox or her allies.

2. Cataclysm is actually castable at any range, which is particularly important for squishy frames: they don't need to jump in the middle of a group of enemies to get an effect off with maximum efficacy or create a safety bubble. They're not tanky Oberons who can do that sort of thing. The more space casters have to play with, the better.

3. Cataclysm isn't channelled. Your idea sounds like it has to be channelled. That does make a notable difference in terms of energy efficiency.

If you are going to go with a Limbo-style thing, it needs the volume dialed up to 11. Draining shields is literally worthless against at least two of the factions. Dealing damage on Night form also makes no thematic sense. Cold procs aren't going to be that useful with Peaceful Provocation's Night form. Brief stuns aren't going to keep Equinox alive to benefit from the effects. While it need not be on the level of Cataclysm, there has to be something much more major than this.

 

EDIT: Rather than leave it at that, here's an idea of what I'd do for the abilities, to give a clearer idea what I mean:

Spoiler

Passives: Day form has Day form stats; Night form has Night form stats. No duration on them, those are the bonuses she gets.

Metamorphosis: Duration-based buffs (~300%) to all of her Passive stat boosts. While active, pressing 1 switches forms without energy cost.

Duality: Spectre gains the same-but-opposite buffs. Switching forms respawns the spectre in the opposite form and with full health and shields. Spectre benefits from Pacify and Provoke as well (for better or worse).

Rest and Rage: Add Rad proc to Rage cast lasting the duration of the ability

Pacify and Provoke: Pacify applies DR to allies in range with no falloff. Energy drains per hit taken by an affected ally (so Heavy Gunners will drain more energy than Bombards). With Metamorphosis active: Allies also gain Equinox's passive stat buffs at their +300% levels, which falls off to the base stat boosts at the edge of P&P. Ability remains active and Peaceful Provocation charge is transferred.

Mend and Maim: Creates a field at a target location for a set duration. In Day form, the field deals 100 Slash damage per second. In Night form, the field heals allies and replenishes their shields by 25 points per second (Health prioritized). Enemies killed in the field cause all Mend and Maim fields to emit a pulse that deals the target's total health as damage to enemies in Day fields (spread across each enemy but with no falloff) and heals allies for 10% of the target's total health in Night fields (also spread across allies and with no fall-off, can extend into overshields). Each enemy killed in a field expands the radius of all fields and increases the DPS / HPS up to a maximum of 250%. Radius of fields affected by range, DPS / HPS affected by ability strength. Players can have at most 2 fields active at a time.

So what does this do? Basically it allows Equinox to activate Metamorphosis, throw down a Mending field on the feet of a group of allies, switch forms, throw a Maiming field at a group of enemies (or a choke-point), and go to town with her other abilities. She's still a bit of an energy hog so she can't go full-ham all the time, but she can use the full arsenal of seven abilities for bursts at a time.

 

Edited by Tyreaus
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I like your overall ideas, but I think different base stats are not the way to go. 

1st Ability : Can stay the same, maybe a longer duration for the buffs. Alternative idea for the buffs would be a short invincibility (maybe with a little heal/shield recharge) on the change to night, buff on day can stay the same.

2nd Ability :  Rest can stay the same as it functions good. Rage definitely needs some better effect, but your suggestions sounds exactly like Embers 2nd skill, so I am not to fond of this.

3rd Ability : I like your idea for Pacify.

4th Ability : Sounds very promising to me. I would like to have multiple zones and the change of the zones with metamorphosis as a default. For 100 energy on every zone this shouldn't be OP and the duration musn't be that long. Maybe increase the effect the longer the zone stays (can be the augment). Change the effect for Mend to recharge shields(maybe increased for a short duration even after leaving the zone) instead of ripping enemies of shields, the rest should be the same. I don't see a problem with stationary zones, as you mustn't stay in the zone, but the enemies.

 

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On 2018-11-10 at 10:25 PM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Equinox doesn’t need a rework.

end of discussion.

obviously not or this wouldn't even be on the forums.

On 2018-11-11 at 12:38 AM, NinjaZeku said:

Your suggested change though would heavily nerf Rest,?
a short-ranged 20 degree angle cone is utter :poop: compared the non-LOS ranged "blast" AoE it currently has.

You can just change the effect of Rage, the delivery method was never the problem.

honestly the cone is mostly a personal preference. I've never liked the point and click "something may happen in this area" especially with equinox' abilities because I can't tell if anything is happening at all sometimes.

On 2018-11-10 at 10:00 PM, (PS4)Equinox21697 said:

I don't like this, as a support caster frame Equinox is very squishy so mobility is a big part of his survival, being able to move while MnM is active is a big advantage for both him and his teammates and should remain unchanged.

day form equinox is a squishy caster. since equinox is all about dualities I'd prefer if night form were the tankier of the two. the main idea of the change was to make it from a constant drain ability to a one stop cast with a duration. the ground targeted aoe is as with the cone mostly personal preference to how I'd like the frame to feel.

On 2018-11-11 at 1:43 AM, Tyreaus said:

I'm not sure what this is getting at. The first "option" sounds just like the current Metamorphosis with different base stats, yet there's an added "don't lock out casting other abilities"...what do you mean by this? Got an example of what you're getting at?

what I mean is there's a certain duration while equinox is tween forms in the mixed form that you can't cast any abilities at all. I'd love if it just instantly swapped over to the other abilities so I could cast them quickly in sequential order. it'd help with the flow.

On 2018-11-11 at 1:43 AM, Tyreaus said:

I just wonder why. Barring the issues with Metamorphosis, i.e. the fact it deactivates current skills and screws with everything, a spectre with 300% damage is pretty nice.

the revive? I thought it would be cool.

On 2018-11-11 at 1:43 AM, Tyreaus said:

This sounds like you're aiming for Limbo's structure, i.e. turning Mend and Maim toward Cataclysm, and you're missing some big things:

1. Cataclysm has a huge defensive boon in the fact that enemies beyond a certain range can't deal damage (and Limbo has abilities to deal with enemies inside that range). These changes don't retain that. There seems to be nothing stopping a Bombard rocket from taking out that Equinox or her allies.

2. Cataclysm is actually castable at any range, which is particularly important for squishy frames: they don't need to jump in the middle of a group of enemies to get an effect off with maximum efficacy or create a safety bubble. They're not tanky Oberons who can do that sort of thing. The more space casters have to play with, the better.

3. Cataclysm isn't channelled. Your idea sounds like it has to be channelled. That does make a notable difference in terms of energy efficiency.

If you are going to go with a Limbo-style thing, it needs the volume dialed up to 11. Draining shields is literally worthless against at least two of the factions. Dealing damage on Night form also makes no thematic sense. Cold procs aren't going to be that useful with Peaceful Provocation's Night form. Brief stuns aren't going to keep Equinox alive to benefit from the effects. While it need not be on the level of Cataclysm, there has to be something much more major than this.

well firstly it'd be closer to oberon's 2, the ground sanctification. one cast, aoe on targets, and the effects keep going until the duration is over or covered up by another cast. the "effects increase" part of it are more like how octavia's hammer soaks up damage and increases its own through no cost of octavia herself as it is its own separate entity.

next who knows it probably would be castable at range. think how hydroid is able to shift his kraken around it's not too far fetched.

heck no the channel part of m&m is the part I most want to take out, regardless of other changes channeled abilities work best on tanky frames that can utilise rage mechanics and worst on squishy casters with limited energy regen options.

also yeah you may have cottoned on I'm not an equinox main. I'm a nyx/banshee main with a pet peeve for frames that just kind of delete the level around giving basically nothing for other frames to do because everything is dead. like ember's world on fire or a 4 spamming saryn/volt. feel free to take any suggestions with a few grain silos of salt.

Edited by ametueraspirant
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5 hours ago, ametueraspirant said:

especially with equinox' abilities because I can't tell if anything is happening at all sometimes

That's seriously strange, I found Equinox' Rest (dunno 'bout Rage, never use that) to be quite obvious, visually.

In fact, you are prevented from casting the ability in the first place if no enemy is in range.

Just because, what's the Range on your build?

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8 hours ago, ametueraspirant said:

what I mean is there's a certain duration while equinox is tween forms in the mixed form that you can't cast any abilities at all. I'd love if it just instantly swapped over to the other abilities so I could cast them quickly in sequential order. it'd help with the flow.

I understand. There might, however, be technical reasons for this, e.g. time required to swap what each keypress does. They might be able to lower it, but may only be able to get so fast with transitions if the game needs time to swap functions.

8 hours ago, ametueraspirant said:

the revive? I thought it would be cool.

It feels overkill, like making the ability a Swiss Army knife of abilities that can do anything. Well, try to do anything: I imagine once you go down and the spectre tries to revive you, enemies will aggro on the spectre so hard it'll get 1% through the revive counter and then die. Duality is meant to be an offensive boon, it feels like it's in a pretty good place (maybe barring spectre survivability), so I don't think giving it even broader capabilities really helps much.

Neat idea, and it'd be an interesting challenge for the Devs to program, just maybe not for Equi.

8 hours ago, ametueraspirant said:

well firstly it'd be closer to oberon's 2, the ground sanctification. one cast, aoe on targets, and the effects keep going until the duration is over or covered up by another cast. the "effects increase" part of it are more like how octavia's hammer soaks up damage and increases its own through no cost of octavia herself as it is its own separate entity.

Hallowed Ground is, even still, almost an entirely different beast. Oberon himself is far tankier of a caster frame than Equinox, and he can use that to a huge benefit with Hunter Adrenaline. The fact a few enemies can pot-shot him at range is perfectly fine, sometimes desirable. For Equinox, it's detrimental. Oberon also has other abilities that can let him literally leap into a crowd of enemies, Reckoning them, and throw down Hallowed Ground while they're stunned. Equinox doesn't have that same option for safe entry. Moreover, you seem to be building a 4 ability to the level of a 2 ability, and it probably needs a fair bit more "oomph" to be satisfactory.

That's why I draw comparisons to Limbo—who isn't as tanky and doesn't have the same level of entry options.

9 hours ago, ametueraspirant said:

next who knows it probably would be castable at range. think how hydroid is able to shift his kraken around it's not too far fetched.

That would definitely help, but it's something you should include in your concept. We can't exactly make assumptions for you—not accurate ones, at least.

9 hours ago, ametueraspirant said:

heck no the channel part of m&m is the part I most want to take out, regardless of other changes channeled abilities work best on tanky frames that can utilise rage mechanics and worst on squishy casters with limited energy regen options.

See above about me assuming things lol.

9 hours ago, ametueraspirant said:

also yeah you may have cottoned on I'm not an equinox main. I'm a nyx/banshee main with a pet peeve for frames that just kind of delete the level around giving basically nothing for other frames to do because everything is dead. like ember's world on fire or a 4 spamming saryn/volt. feel free to take any suggestions with a few grain silos of salt.

I understand. And, personally, I don't disagree. At the same token, it might be better to focus your issues on the topic that's bothering you. It isn't really Equinox that's a problem, it's nuking abilities, right? Volt, Saryn, Ember, Equinox, maybe Banshee sometimes (she used to be up there too!).... You're focusing on a proverbial symptom, not the root cause, and you might find better traction and comfort giving feedback for the core issue.

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I don't think her Maim is an issue with clearing the room with the final release since it takes time to build up, but i do think the initial damage upon entering its radius should be a puncture proc instead of bleed to lessen the "bullet jump around, killing everything" playstyle they changed Ember for in lower level content. The puncture proc would also give her more protection while Maim is building up since the extra damage is unnecessary. 

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On 2018-11-10 at 11:29 PM, ametueraspirant said:

option 2:

similar to the other except metamorphosis is now in the passive as a dash similar to limbo. metamorphosis is replaced with an overcharge type ability that grants the buffs of the current form to allies in a small/medium radius as well as the caster but at 50% effectiveness. this ability can be refreshed while the buff is active.

i like everything ive read but this. this is the second thing i hate most about limbo. this was DE's way of forcing a playstyle on people.

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On 2018-11-18 at 9:06 AM, NinjaZeku said:

Just because, what's the Range on your build?

anywhere from 190-250% depending on how much I change to power strength for the desired map.

On 2018-11-18 at 1:07 PM, Tyreaus said:

Hallowed Ground is...

Moreover, you seem to be building a 4 ability to the level of a 2 ability, and it probably needs a fair bit more "oomph" to be satisfactory.

That's why I draw comparisons to Limbo—who isn't as tanky and doesn't have the same level of entry options.

That would definitely help, but it's something you should include in your concept. We can't exactly make assumptions for you—not accurate ones, at least.

See above about me assuming things lol.

I understand. And, personally, I don't disagree. At the same token, it might be better to focus your issues on the topic that's bothering you. It isn't really Equinox that's a problem, it's nuking abilities, right? Volt, Saryn, Ember, Equinox, maybe Banshee sometimes (she used to be up there too!).... You're focusing on a proverbial symptom, not the root cause, and you might find better traction and comfort giving feedback for the core issue.

again I like my frames a bit tankier but it is as it is. I wasn't seeing the comparison to limbo because whereas limbo's is a big bubble of stop this would be more of a 2d ground circle moving with terrain. I suppose it could be fun to have a protective zone around the edges that stops projectiles  from a certain height. the idea behind it is to make an area where equinox is powerful because she's in her territory. granted it's a bit more manual work than the current 4 so it may be more prudent as a 2 ability from that viewpoint.

On 2018-11-18 at 1:43 PM, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

I don't think her Maim is an issue with clearing the room with the final release since it takes time to build up, but i do think the initial damage upon entering its radius should be a puncture proc instead of bleed to lessen the "bullet jump around, killing everything" playstyle they changed Ember for in lower level content. The puncture proc would also give her more protection while Maim is building up since the extra damage is unnecessary. 

I mean you're not wrong about that. but slash is kind of the only reason equinox is viable in the higher zones. changing it to puncture would be just about the biggest nerf on the list. and if you buffed up the damage to compensate you have the same problem but worse now. 

On 2018-11-18 at 5:28 PM, EinheriarJudith said:

i like everything ive read but this. this is the second thing i hate most about limbo. this was DE's way of forcing a playstyle on people.

I'll agree on that somewhat. while I wouldn't HATE it really it was the second option.

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30 minutes ago, ametueraspirant said:

I mean you're not wrong about that. but slash is kind of the only reason equinox is viable in the higher zones. changing it to puncture would be just about the biggest nerf on the list. and if you buffed up the damage to compensate you have the same problem but worse now. 

Oh, I don't mean to change the stored damage to puncture. Only the passive aura proc upon coming in range.

There's no reason they have to both be the same damage type. Because of the build-up time before it can burst, she earns the slash damage for the stored damage. Free slash procs purely by proximity while the aura is active is unnecessary. It can still keep the "writhing stun" effect, but with the puncture proc effect on the aura it will reduce enemy damage giving her and her team slightly more survivability while they are killing (purely for lessening the "passive killing" that DE has said they dislike while adding a little team support).

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