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Exalted weapon rework: the Garuda talons treatment.


RavingDragon
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to be honest i'm not sure if this should be in weapons or in warframe, but since they're warframe specific i'll put this topic here.

 

so the new warframe, Garuda has a special trait. she is the first and so far only warframe with built in weapons who can equip those weapons as effective weapons (not just as abilities)

so i'm curious about what everyone thinks about applying this treatment to all warframes with and exalted weapon! (barring Excalibur maybe? since his ult is basically just equipping his exalted weapon). for example, Valkyrie could use her claws when no melee is equipped, Mesa can use her peace makers as dual pistols when no secondary is equipped, Khora could use her whip when no melee is equipped, etc. 

 

does anyone else like this idea?

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All the frames with exalted weapons have a reason as to why they have to be abilities, because they’re so powerful (except Wukong). Having them be accessible without energy drain and such would require them to nerf exalted weapons to the ground (remove auto targeting from Regulators, reduced damage and stats). Garudas claws work as they are because their kind of middling melee weapons. Also this would be even worse for frame like Khora or Atlas as they don’t have true exalted weapons and require a melee stat stick, and don’t go suggesting that we make those separately missable because that means we have to very likely dump even more forma into Khora. 

in conclusion: this idea is horrible and should never be thought of by anyone ever again.

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Mesa, Valkyr, and Wukong (not sure if i am missing anyone else) are just like Excalibur; just equipping their exalted as an ultimate. I am confused how they are different to Excalibur yet similar to Garuda. Valkyr's claws aren't already out unlike Garuda. Valkyr summons hers as pure energy.

Edited by (PS4)FunyFlyBoy
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7 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Garudas claws work as they are because their kind of middling melee weapons

I would... wait on that tbh. Based on just a bit of usage I've gotta say they seem to scale really well. 

30% status, slash weighted, build for status + Viral and you're absolutely golden.

Plus, lack of range on her claws isn't even an issue with her since she can hard lock and leap to enemies (with my build) up to 70m away.

I need more testing, but lets face it, it's going to be just as poweful as Wukongs/Excals/Valkyrs weapons.

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36 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

in conclusion: this idea is horrible and should never be thought of by anyone ever again.

As long as you remove the bonus affects from the exalted weapons when not used as an ability it would be fine. I.e. Excal can bring out his sword but it doesn't shoot out projectiles, Wukong's staff doesn't grow, Mesa's peacemakers don't have auto aim, Valkyr isn't invincible, etc. Maybe even lower the stats a bit but other than that they're now just Warframe specific melees.

The only problem i see is Titania; sure she doesn't shrink to bring out the weapon's but they are ARCH weapons, so we'll have to see what happens with the whole; "Bring your ARCH weapons to regular missions" thing to see how that would be implemented.

The other problem is frames like Atlas and Khora would no longer need stat stick; which is a good thing as it frees up melee, BUT prevents the use of rivens.

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11 hours ago, AndouRaiton said:

As long as you remove the bonus affects from the exalted weapons when not used as an ability it would be fine. I.e. Excal can bring out his sword but it doesn't shoot out projectiles, Wukong's staff doesn't grow, Mesa's peacemakers don't have auto aim, Valkyr isn't invincible, etc. Maybe even lower the stats a bit but other than that they're now just Warframe specific melees.

That sounds so horrible.

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Eh, I'll put a definite 'wait and see' on any subject relating to the Exalted-style melee weapons.

Melee 3.0 is in progress. All melee weapons, their stances, and so on are being updated to work under the new system and that's going to change everyone's usage, whether they want it to or not.

I will point out that there is a very key difference between the Ability Melee and Garuda's melee; you only get Garuda's when you un-equip any other melee weapon, while the Ability Melee means you have both. You can actually chain the builds for your melee and your Ability together to make even more powerful combos. Plus the Ability weapons have bonuses beyond just being weapons, with projectile waves, built-in life steal and actual Invulnerability, and... whatever Wukong's does... combo counter I think? (Sorry DEMonkey, I love you really!)

Garuda's talons, meanwhile are just... regular weapons. They don't have anything about them that makes them an ability, they're literally just a fall-back option.

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1 minute ago, Thaylien said:

whatever Wukong's does... combo counter I think? (Sorry DEMonkey, I love you really!)

Grrrr. :tongue:

Wukong's staff grows, that's it's unique feature. As far as it being a "bonus" I'd have to disagree. Growing to a viable (and realistic) range isn't a "bonus" imo. I mean, it starts at dagger length and grows to about ~4m.

A normal staff with Primed Reach will hit ~5m.

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vor 5 Minuten schrieb DeMonkey:

Grrrr. :tongue:

Wukong's staff grows, that's it's unique feature. As far as it being a "bonus" I'd have to disagree. Growing to a viable (and realistic) range isn't a "bonus" imo. I mean, it starts at dagger length and grows to about ~4m.

A normal staff with Primed Reach will hit ~5m.

Would be better if it grows up to 30 m like in the one gif from Chinaframe ^^

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12 minutes ago, Nacond said:

Would be better if it grows up to 30 m like in the one gif from Chinaframe ^^

I am with Thaylien to say "wait and see". Wukong's combos right now are... odd (and a bit sad without Exodia Hunt). They are more slamy than they are extend which removes a lot of the range incentives in the first place. Hopefully DE makes Iron Staff's combos a bit more diverse (all the exalted melees really) with the new system. That said, getting the cap to 10-15m wouldn't be too bad now that we can't hit things through walls maybe even more on some combo strikes.  But, yes, 30m on Chinaframe was ridiculous.

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9 hours ago, Llamatronian said:

On Valkyr, I would quite like to be able to use her 4 without the weapon switch. If I'm running a 3x combo switching to claws is downgrade for damage, and their range kind of sucks, even compared to my preferred dual swords.

Then dont use em. Thout her talons can get 105% crit with sacrificial mods... Pretty op. 

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On 2018-11-11 at 1:26 AM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

because they’re so powerful (except Wukong)

Actually Wukong's weapon is the only one of the bunch I would think could get away with being a passive weapon as long as it stays as is (with it's growing effect and all). I think it would be much better if they just improved it, gave it better range and kept it as his 4th though.

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18 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

Actually Wukong's weapon is the only one of the bunch I would think could get away with being a passive weapon as long as it stays as is (with it's growing effect and all). I think it would be much better if they just improved it, gave it better range and kept it as his 4th though.

Wukong iron staff is the most powerful of the exaLted melee's in my opinion. Though im all for any increase to wukongs kit, provided they don't break him.

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  • Excalibur only uses the metal part of his Sword, no energy effects or flying blades. Probably reduce the damage by like 25% as well.
  • Valkyr uses her fists and feet as a sparring stance, no Claws.
  • Mesa gets her Peacemakers without the scaling damage and obviously without the auto-aim.
  • Wukong's stick doesn't grow.
  • Khora gets a whip because reasons.
  • Atlas gets just some normal fists to punch dudes.
  • Ash being able to use his dagger(s?) would be glorious.

I dunno, I think it could work.

 

Edit: That Valkyr one got me thinking, why not just give every Warframe have a sparring stance? Maybe it can't be modded for most Warframes, but it could be fun.

Edited by DrBorris
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Make Neazha shakhram an exalted weapon tied with melee mods and we will be able to talk after

 

and ASH yeah Ash make his Blades exalted to and remoove shuriken...

sorry i got fever the rework fever

Edited by Tsoe
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2 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Wukong iron staff is the most powerful of the exaLted melee's in my opinion. Though im all for any increase to wukongs kit, provided they don't break him.

It is powerful, but he needs it more than anyone. Lol. Wukong, and kinda Mesa, are the only ones who don't really have much of a kit they can rely on regularly outside of their weapon. That doesn't mean I would advocate for any other frame to get their Exalted as a passive though.

I mean, Defy and Cloud Walker are very useful but extremely situational. Defy is like health insurance...you're constantly paying for it but if you are actually taking care of yourself anyway then you don't get to benefit from it throughout most of the game. I for one do not plan to play more recklessly just so I can say I'm getting something out of it. Cloud Walker is actually my favorite ability in hit kit, but it is entirely too situational and clunky. I use it to open enemies to finishers, but I'm spoiled by being an Ash main so I know that can be done much smoother. Obviously it's too slow to really be a decent stealth move. After all of that, people kinda have to fall back on Iron Staff. To me that's kinda sad, since I don't actually find Iron Staff enjoyable to use so I rarely even use it in a mission (but that could just be my own problem).

I definitely think the solution is to fix his kit rather than patching another hole in the sinking ship, but if there's any argument for a frame to get the passive exalted I was only arguing that it would be him in his current state.

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On 2018-11-12 at 9:47 AM, Tsoe said:

and ASH yeah Ash make his Blades exalted to and remoove shuriken...

I definitely don't want Ash to get an Exalted Blade rework. Bladestorm is a far more interesting and useful ability as is, minus a few QoL adjustments that it needs. I can't disagree with you that Shuriken needs to be reworked or replaced though. Since the Bladestorm rework it's actually cheaper to use Bladestorm than Shuriken, and for far more damage. The only arguable benefit of his 1 is that is has infinite punch through so it can lock on to kill weak enemies through walls but other than that it doesn't bring anything meaningful to his kit.

As an interesting side-note, I recall during a Devstream or something it being mentioned that Ash technically had the first "exalted weapon" since he's always had the wrist blades that come out during his Bladestorm attacks. 😄

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Il y a 3 heures, (PS4)Riko_113 a dit :

I definitely don't want Ash to get an Exalted Blade rework. Bladestorm is a far more interesting and useful ability as is, minus a few QoL adjustments that it needs. I can't disagree with you that Shuriken needs to be reworked or replaced though. Since the Bladestorm rework it's actually cheaper to use Bladestorm than Shuriken, and for far more damage. The only arguable benefit of his 1 is that is has infinite punch through so it can lock on to kill weak enemies through walls but other than that it doesn't bring anything meaningful to his kit.

As an interesting side-note, I recall during a Devstream or something it being mentioned that Ash technically had the first "exalted weapon" since he's always had the wrist blades that come out during his Bladestorm attacks. 😄

Exalted Blades would be something diferent...

Current Bladestorm should just replace Shuriken

like you aim something and a blade storm is lauched in a 5m radius around the aimed targed

 

Exalted blades would be something new , in that mod ash can freely teleport with no need for target , , shuriken like said aboove are replaced with Bladestorm

Exalted blade storm will have a 15m radius

and smoke screen explosion would open enemies for finisher

 

Exalted blades will not drain energy but work just like current bladestorm , and use energy only if you use a skill

meanwhile ash would be able to use all his weapons like usual

Edited by Tsoe
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4 minutes ago, Tsoe said:

Current Bladestorm should just replace Shuriken

like you aim something and a blade storm is lauched in a 5m radius around the aimed targed

That's an interesting thought, but the damage would have to be drastically reduced considering it would be a 1st ability. It would probably also lose the finisher damage that currently defines it. I kinda like the idea of Shuriken using the same aimed targeting system for mult-fire that Bladestorm currently does but I still think it should be something unique in his kit rather than just provide more damage and recycling a mechanic that's already in his kit.

7 minutes ago, Tsoe said:

Exalted blades would be something new , in that mod ash can freely teleport with no need for target

Exalted blade storm will have a 15m radius

15m attack radius? So basically just Teleport to where he wants but it also deals damage to all enemies near that location? If it deals area damage why shouldn't have a target? If there's no enemies then it's just an expensive free aim Teleport. You could just make Teleport free aim for mobility and let it retain it's current attack function if it has a target then Bladestorm wouldn't need to change for that benefit. I'm just trying to make sure I understand the suggestion correctly.

With QoL adjustments, the current Bladestorm is a great ability with high scaling damage and versatility in use. It's also unique, mechanically, which makes it refreshing compared to the normal press-4-everything-dies that was the norm for so long for many frames.

 

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