How do you expect people with disabilities to pass mastery rank tests?

[FUBAR-BDHR]

The first 7 tests weren't bad except for test 7 bugging out on the live version until the latest update.  Test 8 I will probably never be able to complete.  I have both carpel tunnel and a nerve condition that caused me to loose much of the feeling in my hands.  This makes doing multiple key jumps nearly impossible.  Double jump is about the only thing I can do.  I've already had to give up one weekly event due to jumps and now I will be stuck at rank 7.  Wish I would have never bought plat.  I would have never it I would have know about this BS.  Game are supposed to be fun for everyone not a closed door to some.

[ConzyFTW]

There isn’t very much they can do without crippling the game for the majority of the player base.

[CalculatedMurderMachine]

3 minutes ago, FUBAR-BDHR said:

The first 7 tests weren't bad except for test 7 bugging out on the live version until the latest update.  Test 8 I will probably never be able to complete.  I have both carpel tunnel and a nerve condition that caused me to loose much of the feeling in my hands.  This makes doing multiple key jumps nearly impossible.  Double jump is about the only thing I can do.  I've already had to give up one weekly event due to jumps and now I will be stuck at rank 7.  Wish I would have never bought plat.  I would have never it I would have know about this BS.  Game are supposed to be fun for everyone not a closed door to some.

Games also tend to incorporate multiple buttons and movement combinations, and warframe, unfortunately has an extremely high number of these instances. There really is no other way around it, other than maybe assigning macro-keybinds.

Why not ask a friend to do it for you? It's a mastery test after all. 

Just a fair warning, there are a lot more challenging, multi-button needing things that are demanding. Either seek a permanent person to help you with this or bind macro keys that do it for you. DE supports that.

[VileMeanBean]

I myself have Carple Tunnel and Artheritis in my neck that has caused complete numbness in my arms and  my hands, and I am completely Deaf so have no sense of hearing to alert me to mobs in any given direction.  I manage  and am MR15.  Its mostly in setting up your macros and controls properly and getting some muscle memory. Once you have a good feel for the controls its all possible. 

 

I routinely solo 35 to 50 minutes in survival missions using Inaros or Harrow, and play support roles like Trinity in groups for tougher runs. Its a mind set and your amount of sheer grit and determination to beat you physical issues and not let them beat you. I find most games hard to play at first until I get some muscle memory going and then its busines as usual. As for hearing, well I "hear" that is over rated  hehe. To quote any United States Marine  -  Adapt and Overcome!  Good Luck

 

May all your enemies find thier way to the center of your scope!

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Macros

I actually never Knew there was Bullet Jump till MR8 test pointed out that just double jumping wasn't adequate and faqs introduced the concept to me. (darn you DE for not having more tutorials!)

I got thru the test using The Claw grip style, then said 'no more!' and programmed a macro into my controller

[(PSN)OriginalEquinox]

Unless macros help you might want to consider getting a less demanding game than Warframe because I doubt DE will tone down bullet jumping and such because it's a core part of the game

[FUBAR-BDHR]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)haphazardlynamed said:

Macros

I actually never Knew there was Bullet Jump till MR8 test pointed out that just double jumping wasn't adequate and faqs introduced the concept to me. (darn you DE for not having more tutorials!)

I got thru the test using The Claw grip style, then said 'no more!' and programmed a macro into my controller

I just have a regular 3 button mouse no fancy controllers.  Keyboard macros are just as bad because you still need to take you hands off of wsad area for them.  I've never had an issue with games because I've either avoided them or they didn't require such combinations.  After weeks of play I find out this requires them.  Sure I can do the occasional jump but I can't do them reliably. Bad enough being the last guy to evac nearly every mission because of it now I'm stuck forever. Woke up thinking I could finally make my first prime weapon today but nope never going to happen.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

I've only seen one other mission where these jumps are even needed and apparently there is some way around that when your higher level.  This blocks the entire gameplay.  It's a fun game.  Buggy as hell but fun.  I have 217 hours of gameplay and didn't see a need for them until this mission.  Of course that's after buying platinum.  Not much but still they hide the need for so long into the game. 

[VileMeanBean]

Personally I have not prioritized MR rating (MR15) unless I need it for a weapon choice, but to be honest I do not believe for a moment that DE is hiding the fact that bullet jumps are needed. To my way of thinking and I firmly think that "most" players think this way.. If its a mechanic in the game then at some point it may be useful or even needed; so learn it. Also lets not forget that DE has put into place a way for you to practice that mission to your hearts content until you can do the damn thing blindfolded in your sleep. So be sure to utilize it to maximize your chances of gaining the next level. 

As for buggy as hell..  hmm, I have to say I see people have this, that, and the other issue but I have to say I have been blessed with minimal issues. 1600+ hours of play and nothing that jumps to mind other than new areas and grouping issues for me. Go to enter an area and suddenly separated from the group. Quick reset and we are off to the races.

 

"May all your enemies find their way to the center of your scope!"

Edited November 11, 2018 by VileMeanBean

[VileMeanBean]

As for the 3 button mouse and fancy controllers..  nope.  If you knew how I controlled my game you would call me a lair.  Most do (even friends and co-workers) until they witnessed it for themselves. I use a standard 3 button mouse in my left hand and a Logitech G13 for my right. 

I assign my WSAD to the joystick control on the G13 and I drive my Warframe using my pinky finger on that joystick. I then have all the buttons to the left of that joystick to setup my keybinds and macros. Combine all that together and you have a VERY viable setup if you are able to train your pinky to control directional movement. This setup goes for every game I have ever played. Before that I used the arrow keys on the keyboard (very frustrating to me) and all the keys around to setup skills and perform all the different tasks in the Parkour movement catalog that is necessary to playing Warframe.

Its the mindset you neded to get and have.  This is going to beat me everytime, OR, I will not let this beat me and I will find a way to overcome this.  The choice is yours and your mindset as in anything in life is important and MATTERS!!  Good Luck to you and I hope to see you in game and enjoying it. 

 

"May all your enemies find their way to the center of your scope!"

[FUBAR-BDHR]

13 minutes ago, VileMeanBean said:

Personally I have not prioritized MR rating (MR15) unless I need it for a weapon choice, but to be honest I do not believe for a moment that DE is hiding the fact that bullet jumps are needed. To my way of thinking and I firmly think that "most" players think this way.. If its a mechanic in the game then at some point it may be useful or even needed; so learn it. Also lets not forget that DE has put into place a way for you to practice that mission to your hearts content until you can do the damn thing blindfolded in your sleep. So be sure to utilize it to maximize your chances of gaining the next level. 

As for buggy as hell..  hmm, I have to say I see people have this, that, and the other issue but I have to say I have been blessed with minimal issues. 1600+ hours of play and nothing that jumps to mind other than new areas and grouping issues for me. Go to enter an area and suddenly separated from the group. Quick reset and we are off to the races.

I know how to do it the problem is I can't do it repeatedly.  Sure I can do the one off and sometimes even 2 but to do it over and over and on demand isn't going to happen.  Practicing just makes it worse.  The more I try those combinations the number my hands get.  I tried for about 45 minutes earlier and went from being able to make the first 4 jumps to only the first 3. 

 

As for bugs maybe I just see them more because I used to do beta testing and even some dev work.  Heck can't even get past the launcher without it closing itself half the time.  V-Prime has been buggy all day.  Just had rescue missions where the 3rd and 4th group didn't spawn until the host left then the spaceship wouldn't depart with them.  It's full of bugs.

[VileMeanBean]

I understand.  Either you need to find another way to control the game like I did or look for something that is less demanding. I get it trust me.  I work in I.T. as a Senior Network Engineer, Project Manager, and Policy Writer. So I probably type upwards of 15 to 20 thousand words a day depending on the issues of that day.  Some better or worse, again depending on the whim of a network to remain stable or suddenly go crazy because some user decided to reply to all for an all@whatever.net email base of 5k users with large graphics in the email and having some power fluctuation dumped on top of that because of a press on the factory floor that somehow got past a APC UPS and locked up my switch in the network node lol. 

Either way some games are just going to be more demanding than others and honestly this is one that will go after the hands and wrists. I do not think they intended this but it is just a fact of this particular game. The sheer amount of combinations you need to perform are mind bogeling and taxing to the human condition. Also consider this to all my issues previously mentioned..  I am 4 foot 8 inches tall so you can imagine I do not have the largest of hands lol. Its a real stretch from the pinky control to the G15 button on my controller. 

As for the bugs..  sorry for your luck there. I would be looking to stability of drivers and my windows setup for solutions there. I have never come close to any of those issues. I have played since DE hung out its shingle on this game and even did some B.ET.A  and Dev work myself for various things. However, I try not to let that world clash with my play time. I do what I can to make my PC as stable as possible, and go from there. Work is work, play is play, and I am not in the business of looking for bugs that do not have any effect on me at all. That being said I hope you figure things out. Good Luck to you!!

 

"May all your enemies find their way to the center of your scope!"

 

[(XBOX)mxgreg]

You might look into getting some other type of controller.  I have met and played with a lot of people that have issues.  Maybe some stomp pad for the sliding button.

https://www.ranker.com/list/video-game-controllers-for-people-with-disabilities/nathan-gibson

[FUBAR-BDHR]

4 hours ago, (XB1)mxgreg said:

You might look into getting some other type of controller.  I have met and played with a lot of people that have issues.  Maybe some stomp pad for the sliding button.

https://www.ranker.com/list/video-game-controllers-for-people-with-disabilities/nathan-gibson

Yea spend money on hardware to get past 1 damn mission.  Money I don't have.  I wouldn't be playing a free game if I could afford to buy stuff.

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

On 2018-11-11 at 2:19 AM, ConzyFTW said:

There isn’t very much they can do without crippling the game for the majority of the player base.

This is a misnomer. Majority of a given game base aren't overachievers. Gamers love to think they're Elites, but 90% of the game base doesn't pursue higher content (that's what the Everquest and World of Warcraft devs said about their games -- only 10% of their base even does high end content with the locks. Same gamers play these games like Warframe [I play EQII and WoW, too]).

They're playing because so-and-so is playing, or pursuing other interests like crafting/trading or whatever floats their boat.

Here's an example of WHAT MR system is about...

I was at Sedna doing a defense mission trying to farm more Nano spores/credits. MR 14 and MR21 players with me. I'm just a MR7 with AoE weapons (that video game companies always nerf. Just like they nerfed Mag's AoE in 2016. Yeah, the Tonkor was also a great weapon for MR7 and below players). The MR14 and MR21 couldn't beat me on anything, including DPS AND numbers of kills and even headshots (and I'm blinded by visual snow mind you). The MR14 player? Essentially just stood there sucking up drops at the defense spot with their Carrier sentinel with only 17 kills in a 15 wave mission (I had over 225. Top DPS. Top Damage delt. Top less damage recieved. Top loot gather. Top no deaths). The MR21 player wanted to look good by trying to take MY kills from me, meanwhile not playing defense. So when my lane is cleared, I run toward the defense spot to check if help was needed, and it's covered by mobs because the MR14 is just standing there, and the MR21 is trying to play catchup for 2 players running around elsewhere (no doubt he was 2 boxing an alt).

So all the MR is, is to stop lowbies from using powerful weapons and trivilizing content. With people "helping' them to gain MR ranks they never acquired on their own, either. The amount of "offers" to share accounts I got for mentioning I can't get past MR8 is SHAMEFUL. I WANT to do the achievement myself. I always do my own as it's a personal achievement, but the button sequencing I can't do with a bad hand and eyes anymore. That's my only limit, not understanding how games play or doing the content.

The MR system exposes the truth about video games and it's populations. MANY of the disabled play video games as they can't work; can't get out and run around whenever they like; and some use video games as a cheaper rehab program than PT sessions (which is WHY I play Warframe as it forces me to use my stiff hand; eyes that can't see well; Archwing really helps in 3D spatial skills).

Video game companies need to be aware of the actual types of gamers out there, not just aiming for that lucrative 15-24 year-old money sponge market (kids still dependent on parent incomes and credit cards). They're no better than I in doing the same content, because I actually do my own gaming, not getting a friend of a friend (or even total strangers) to do their achieves for them (then these video game companies wonder how/why so many accounts are "hacked"??? Yeah, it's because they shared their accounts).

The best solution is you can't use XYZ weapons until you hit level 30 first. Then when you relevel with formas you can then use level appropriate weapons. So E-Prime is still challenging with level appropriate weapons (as the frame is limited in it's own abilities until it unlocks it via leveling anyway). I can't use level 120 gear as a level 1 starter toon in WoW, how can I use a tricked out MR7 weapon at rank 0 in Warframe??? Nothing "elite" in that plowing throw content like that!!!

[Aramil999]

Ask someone to pass test,

nothing more can be done bro unless you somehow manage.

I was suprised when I found out that you can get almost everywhere with only walking in game btw. Sure you have to run in War quest but still... amazing that in game about flying between walls and not touching floor u can get almost everywhere on foot. DE did good job on that.

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

On 2018-12-03 at 11:21 AM, Aramil999 said:

Ask someone to pass test,

nothing more can be done bro unless you somehow manage.

I was suprised when I found out that you can get almost everywhere with only walking in game btw. Sure you have to run in War quest but still... amazing that in game about flying between walls and not touching floor u can get almost everywhere on foot. DE did good job on that.

You mean this cheesing that anyone who finished The Silver Grove questline could've EXPLOITED to get their MR???

THE "meta" in gaming is to find the exploits and cheats. So anyone who finished TSG questline and got Titania -- before they patched it -- could've aced the MR system -- via exploiting it. Look at the MR11 videos out there before the fix...............

I just finished The Silver Grove questline and unlocked Titania. Went in as of December 4th, 2018 to practice ... frame abilities are blocked NOW......................

Instead of doing away with the MR system (or rework it to actually resemble the video game itself) when it's clear it's been exploted/cheated/cheesed, DE simply disabled frame abilities -- yet all those who exploited/cheated with all the usual methods, got a FREE PASS.

Oh, they can bullet jump like a pro with their macros -- and even use scripting -- too.......................

So DE instead of scraping their vestibular and VISUAL CLARITY "test" (this is why they don't use the actual game environment as their "test". They explicitly use flashing seizure causing light effects; and 3D spatial disarming techniques -- "Figure-Ground Perception" spatial testing that vestibular disabled people have a hard time dealing with)...

The MR system needs to be scrapped and/or using the real game environment DUE TO it being exploited/cheated/cheesed multiple times. The "test" is if you can function in the game, not beat a system that anyone with visual and/or spatial disorders can't do.

DE can adapt. Just like making the red ball red, instead of the older white ball (because people complained). Just like they can disable frame abilities. They can adapt this mastery test so it's not discrimminating the disabled with all the glare, and needing to click 3 buttons in sequence to simply jump, too (and don't NEED to use macros or SCRIPTS).

[DatDarkOne]

On ‎2018‎-‎11‎-‎11 at 1:17 AM, FUBAR-BDHR said:

The first 7 tests weren't bad except for test 7 bugging out on the live version until the latest update.  Test 8 I will probably never be able to complete.  I have both carpel tunnel and a nerve condition that caused me to loose much of the feeling in my hands.  This makes doing multiple key jumps nearly impossible.  Double jump is about the only thing I can do.  I've already had to give up one weekly event due to jumps and now I will be stuck at rank 7.  Wish I would have never bought plat.  I would have never it I would have know about this BS.  Game are supposed to be fun for everyone not a closed door to some.

Hey OP, I just got the link for this in an email.  thought I'd share it as it's related to some of the things you mentioned.  

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/xbox-adaptive-controller/8nsdbhz1n3d8?ocid=PV19GG_ema_omc_xbo_ADPCTRChck

 

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

On 2018-12-05 at 12:11 PM, DatDarkOne said:

Hey OP, I just got the link for this in an email.  thought I'd share it as it's related to some of the things you mentioned.  

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/xbox-adaptive-controller/8nsdbhz1n3d8?ocid=PV19GG_ema_omc_xbo_ADPCTRChck

 

FYI: those with disabilities each had different needs. Where Carpal Tunnel Syndrome (and Cubital Tunnel Symdrome) are nerve injuries, their arms/hands are still functional, though. With surgery there is even a cure for the most common reasons for those conditions too.

Those with brain injuries it's Upper Motor Neuron (UMN) damage. The signals from the body to the brain are frayed or broken completely. Then sometimes the signals from the brain also will cause spasms, worse, contractures. My strokes affect INDIVIDUAL muscle groups on the affected side (mustly extensor muscles). It can be as minor as making it impossible to touch the thumb and pinkie as it becomes stiff like wood when it goes off. So things like double tapping is impossible in quick succession. XBox's controller wouldn't matter to folks like myself.

As you can see in this video -- and especially @1:58 -- you see each patient uses a different type of controller, depending on the severity of their UMN and if they have even contractures...

The Xbox controller has a market for certain conditions, but it isn't a one-size-fits all device.

In therapy for arm/hand rehab it's very dismal for those with TBI/strokes/neuro degenerative disorders, as the concentration is getting people on their feet to move independently, first (as it's lethal to stay bedridden). The problem is neuroplasticity (where the brain rewires itself to use other areas of the brain to compensate for lesion damage), by the time a patient can walk again, the window for arm/hand treatment is gone (not completely, but the results aren't as promising after a year). Why so many TBI/stroke patients you can see walk again, but their hands have contracted and essentially useless.

Only recently have research has tried to address the problem, but it hasn't gotten to the masses, yet (you see the issue now with WHY double tapping is impossible for some?)...

Have an TBI/Stroke/Neuro-degenerative disorder like MS/MD/ataxia, therapy is still the old methods (that does little to help, but strengthen weak muscles. UMN lesions cause affected limbs to become weaker, especially the extensor muscles. PT is there to strengthen the muscles and help with coordination. But the issue is needing to do repetition tasks over and over and over for extended periods, like years).

The reason why people with UMN disabilities (compared to Carpal/Cubital Tunnel Syndromes .. where repetition CAUSED their problems) are turning more and more to video gaming as therapy is because repetition these games offer is exactly how the brain rewires itself .. by use. PT sessions happen for no more than an hour 3x a week. A video game? You can be in it for hours each day using your arm/hand (and eyes, for those with TBI/Stroke involving the CN III nerve, especially). More time actually in REAL therapy you need, especially for the fingers/thumb and coordination. It's also 10x cheaper. Win/win.

Why I came back to Warframe in 2016, knowing Mag (at that time) had a ONE BUTTON NO AIMING REQUIRED AoE ability. Then left the game when Mag was changed to a point/click AoE. Changing that frame to something more complicated to make it "interesting" for elitists, again is a shut out for the disabled. We specifically play characters that we can use and be part of MMOs. We don't want to change the system per se, we just want to have the ability to play what is there with the tools available.

The MR system is one of those mishaped tools. It's a shame really, because Warframe otherwise being an agility game is what we NEED to play, but the MR system is designed to GIVE people without brain injuries the confusion those that do have them, are trying to work around!

This is a great picture of how I see the platforms in the MR arena. I don't need the spatial disorientation to make that test difficult, it's there by default now...

https://plus.google.com/b/105114600845128104098/photos/photo/113118420661689340672/6356771338966041554

What DE did was make the platforms so widely distorted by haze, I can't judge where the edges are anymore. Overshoot or undershoot them, on top of can't tap in sequence so many keys at once.

Worse, the game depends on people completing the MR system to even progress. Questline doesn't even open for you. Weapons you can never use. Riven mods? MR8+ requirement. Hard blocks, and people with disabilities need to know this before EVER playing Warframe. DE needs to put a disclaimer more than 18+ M requirement due to blood and gore on this game, due to the MR system.

 

[DatDarkOne]

10 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

The Xbox controller has a market for certain conditions, but it isn't a one-size-fits all device

Can you at least be amazed that this even exists and/or that they even tried.  That's way more than almost any other company has done for disabled people in regards to gaming.  I see this as a plus overall if for nothing but the effort alone.  

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

2 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Can you at least be amazed that this even exists and/or that they even tried.  That's way more than almost any other company has done for disabled people in regards to gaming.  I see this as a plus overall if for nothing but the effort alone.  

Other companies have disabled specific controllers long before Microsoft done it (and with the therapy price tag to go with it). Do you think adaptative technologies are cheap?

I'm pointing out that the solutions aren't that simple, as the NEEDS of different disabled populations are different. Lower Motor Neuron disorders are different from Upper Neuron disorders, for example. They all are different from joint disorders like arthritis. The Xbox controller would work wonders for the aged with arthritis, for example, but the problem is more than controllers and devices here ... it's the MR design itself.

Devs love pushing the envelope in what they can do, but they don't always consider the consequences of what they create (oh, God, look at the mess in WoW and Diablo now!). Surely DE wants more people to play Warframe, not ban 10-15% of the population playing video games itself! As the MR system is a ban, because so much is locked out if you can't get past MR7.

See for the abled the MR system is "easy". For certain disabled, the MR system is a total lock out in the way it was designed. Controllers isn't the problem for some, it's the very design OF the MR system itself.

[DatDarkOne]

Uhh, so why quote me and write all that you did as a response to my post.  All I did was link something that might help the OP and even said so in my first post that you quoted.  

On ‎2018‎-‎12‎-‎05 at 11:11 AM, DatDarkOne said:

Hey OP, I just got the link for this in an email.  thought I'd share it as it's related to some of the things you mentioned.  

Notice that I didn't say it was a complete solution to the issue.  All I said was that I found something that is somewhat related to the SOME things he mentioned. 

I didn't ask for an essay telling me why I'm wrong for offering a helpful suggestion.  

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

Uhh, so why quote me and write all that you did as a response to my post.  All I did was link something that might help the OP and even said so in my first post that you quoted.  

Notice that I didn't say it was a complete solution to the issue.  All I said was that I found something that is somewhat related to the SOME things he mentioned. 

I didn't ask for an essay telling me why I'm wrong for offering a helpful suggestion.  

Because you posted the link to the XBox controller as A solution. It is for a solution for A certain group of the disabled, but that's not the real problem here in the first place.

Have to consider there are MANY disabilities out there, and each with specific needs. The visually impaired have different needs than those who are deaf; same with those with physical motor disabilities. Someone in a wheelchair can have zero problems with their hands. But if someone with a hemispheric disorder, they can never wheel a manual wheelchair, as it's both upper and lower limbs affected.

The controller I'd need is more like a Hotas joystick that can work for the left hand (ambidextrous flight stick with plenty of buttons to program for). And the reason why? It's vertical, not horizontal, so it won't tire the hand (why the upper limb disabled also prefer vertical mice -- the OP would find that most beneficial, too). Horizontal devices crosses the ulnar and radius to work. If your problem in your affected hand is muscle related you want a neutral position device, otherwise it HURTS to use for longer than an hour. Flight sticks also have hand rests on the stick, so not to lose your hand position fumbling with the buttons.

But again, that isn't the problem. It's the MR design itself. It was designed to keep the masses FROM progressing. Doubt DE understood that it's a complete shutout for other gaming populations, though (why develop a game that effectively bans 10-15% of income they can get otherwise?).