When DE announce Fortuna to be less grindy than PoE, I thought they meant to address the daily standing cap hahaha nope. Many lower MR players are still screwed big time.

[Methanoid]

5 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

Consider the last time you built a blue or orange potato in your foundry. That patch landed years ago.

heh, yeah not far off it.

[LarryYourWaiter]

Doesn’t matter how much rep you can grind in a day.  Fortuna is all about how many medical debt bonds you can get in your playtime.  The whole things orbits around these medical debt bonds.

[Kerberos-3]

1 hour ago, LarryYourWaiter said:

Doesn’t matter how much rep you can grind in a day.  Fortuna is all about how many medical debt bonds you can get in your playtime.  The whole things orbits around these medical debt bonds.

Where I am in terms of standing, Debt Bonds are really only for ranking up and buying Orbiter Decor from Ticker.

[wtflag]

It is less grindy because of a few improvements. 

1. Bounty bonuses basically gives you double the rewards meaning you need half the time to get the stuff you need.

2. The new drill lets you have double the gem about 25% of the time.

3. Fishes spawn in greater numbers and are easy to hit. Only the final fish need bait. The rest are can be caught without bait.

4. Because of the bounty bonus, most players try their best and is not leeching off at the side mining or fishing. 

As for your actual complain, which is about standing cap and gating, try to get higher MR? I am MR24 and I only have 160 days logged in.

[wtflag]

2 hours ago, LarryYourWaiter said:

Doesn’t matter how much rep you can grind in a day.  Fortuna is all about how many medical debt bonds you can get in your playtime.  The whole things orbits around these medical debt bonds.

Ticker is your man.

Before I come into the forum today I don't even realise medical debt bonds were a problem for anyone. I found myself already having like 20+ of those and ready to advance to the next rank once get my daily standing quota.

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by wtflag

[evilChair]

5 minutes ago, wtflag said:

Ticker is your man.

Before I come into the forum today I don't even realise medical debt bonds were a problem for anyone. I found myself already having like 20+ of those and ready to advance to the next rank once get my daily standing quota.

 

yeah, ticker is a bit of a... idk. i erased a lot of debts through his store which helped circumvent the grind, but now i find myself doing bounties after i'd hit my daily cap simply because there's a bit of a moral impulse for me in the whole debt thing while at the same time it's a resource sink for the 1M 175K salvage, 750K ferrite and just as much alloy plate. i stopped counting credits a long time ago. on the one hand, i feel like ticker helps circumvent the grind, but at the same time circumventing the grind makes bounties feel a bit meaningless unless you're actually "siding" with the solaris. my only hope to balance this out is for them to increase standing expenses so that there's a healthy standing economy and not just a shortcut to max standing via stockpiled resources for people who've been playing the game to death until a week ago.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

without timegates, people would rush through all the content in a week or less and then complain they have nothing to do. they're a necessary evil.

[Xerenova]

26 minutes ago, wtflag said:

As for your actual complain, which is about standing cap and gating, try to get higher MR? I am MR24 and I only have 160 days logged in.

I'm MR25 with 950 days logged in. I'm not complaining for myself lmao.

Edited November 12, 2018 by -Icicles-

[BtheLee]

I'll admit having only 5000 standing available does suck, but many higher MR players aren't really having issues that pertain to gaining standing, but rather gathering the resources needed to gain a higher rank in the SU, I'm talking mainly about medical bonds which seem to be more rare than the toroids in caves.

[Kerberos-3]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

without timegates, people would rush through all the content in a week or less and then complain they have nothing to do. they're a necessary evil.

Not really. The're only a "necessary evil" if you are trying to balance the game around the hardcore veteran grinders. Since they are by and far a minority in this game, timegates are nothing more than an irritating wall that hurts far more than it helps, especially when it comes to stuff like Kitguns and MOAs.7

[(PSN)robotwars7]

4 minutes ago, Kerberos-3 said:

Not really. The're only a "necessary evil" if you are trying to balance the game around the hardcore veteran grinders. Since they are by and far a minority in this game, timegates are nothing more than an irritating wall that hurts far more than it helps, especially when it comes to stuff like Kitguns and MOAs.7

DE is trying to balance the game around both, which is near impossible, but they are still trying nonetheless. you won't see it because you feel the grind now, but try to think back to the last game you played where you rushed through it and thought "oh, it's over. well now what do I do?". that's where you'd be with warframe. people want to burn through content without thinking of how bored they'll get when there's nothing left for them to do and the next update is a long way off.

sure, you might not like timegates. neither do I really, but I understand why they are there, and why they have to remain there in one form or another. there's always gonna be a gate.

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by (PS4)robotwars7

[Kerberos-3]

Just now, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

DE is trying to balance the game around both, which is near impossible, but they are still trying nonetheless. you won't see it because you feel the grind now, but try to think back to the last game you played where you rushed through it and thought "h, it's over. well now what do I do?". that's where you'd be with warframe. peope want to burn through content without thinking of how bored they'll get when there's nothing left for them to do and the next update is a long way off.

sure, you might not like timegates. neither do I really, but I understand why they are there, and why they have to remain there in one form or another. there's always gonna be a gate.

 

That gate, very simply, should be paced reputation gain that allows people to work towards what they want in a timely manor, but burning through everything Fortuna has to offer would take quite a bit of time. In other words, slow down rep gain and remove the cap. Arbitrarily capping your progress does nothing but create a negative experience for newer players, frustration from older player, and presents an image of laziness from DE.

[LarryYourWaiter]

1 hour ago, wtflag said:

Ticker is your man.

Before I come into the forum today I don't even realise medical debt bonds were a problem for anyone. I found myself already having like 20+ of those and ready to advance to the next rank once get my daily standing quota.

 

Oh I’ve been checking him every hour all weekend.  I have 2 x medical bonds from him.  That’s all he has ever had available.

[wtflag]

1 hour ago, Kerberos-3 said:

That gate, very simply, should be paced reputation gain that allows people to work towards what they want in a timely manor, but burning through everything Fortuna has to offer would take quite a bit of time. In other words, slow down rep gain and remove the cap. Arbitrarily capping your progress does nothing but create a negative experience for newer players, frustration from older player, and presents an image of laziness from DE.

No. The resource gates are in fact a good design.

Warframe has many resources to grind for, with all the various syndicates standings, eidolon, focus, Edo, kuva, credits, ducats, fish, gems etc. 

All of the various resources are equally important to the growth of a player's character.

A new player tend to have a lower resource limit, but many different resources to grind.

Veterans only cares about a few resources and they have a high resource cap.

Removing caps means that new players will not be guided in their growth. And veterans will not only be faster, but also have more time to gather those resources, leading to them completely dominating the trade market. And then it will also lead to veterans  burning out the expansion in two weeks and go back to hiberate. That would be bad for the retention rate of the game.

I'm saying this as a MR24.

 

 

 

 

[Vesiga]

Less grind includes; 
Pre-built ARCANES. 
Top tier mining tool with rank 1. 
Pre-built bait (though this needs to come in bulk, i'm not buying 1 bait for 300 rep. make it x10 for 300 please)
Buying your rep with credits. 
Mining is 100% easier to get top tier gems, and multiple ores. 
Fishing spawns are high, and at rank 3 you get a AoE spear. 
Bounty objectives are incredibly quick to complete.
Maxing standing for vent kids is done insanely fast as well. 
Because of buying rep with credits, fish can 100% be used as materials, cut up all you get. youll have EVERY material youll ever need by fishing and mining cause you won't be turning them in for rep!
Bounties give bonus'!! Even double loot rolls with the bonus sometimes! 
You can FARM the operator drops without waiting!! 

What is not grind; 
Daily standing cap. Once you cap you are no longer grinding! 
Low MR players complaining? That's their fault and problem for not getting their MR rank up for all this! 
New to the game? Why are you here, go do the quests and startchart and max some stuff out. 
Didn't get your MR up because you didn't want certain weapons and thought MR 16-18 was okay? That's your own fault in a looter completionist game. 

If cap was erased, everyone would have everything maxed out and own everything day 1
after they spent a full year making this content for us, why would they change standing cap? We would defeat their whole update in a matter of hours. 
You'd all be asking "WHATS NEXT" 
You'd all stop playing wf and wait for next content update. 
Now quit complaining about a standing cap because  YOUR MR is too low. 
instead GO GET RANKED UP. 

ENJOY the update. PLAY the game. 
Go hunting, fishing, mining once you hit cap. 
Play other modes, finish cetus if you haven't. 
Go farm primes, and invasions, and sorties, and the other several syndicates. 
Go play the game and get things done rather than complaining about one DLC that was all FREE.

If you have time to complain on the forums, you have time to get your MR rank up for standing cap increase, 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Vesiga

[aswitz87]

Meh I won’t complain.  Standing takes playing the game, and exploring a bit during the open ended bounties (find the enemies instead of an area) is a welcome distraction from normal gameplay.

[FreelancerAgentTexas]

Oh no, they want you to take time to experience the content and not blow through everything in the first 5 days? Scandalous!

[_Keniji_]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Vesiga:

Less grind includes; 
Pre-built ARCANES. 
Top tier mining tool with rank 1. 
Pre-built bait (though this needs to come in bulk, i'm not buying 1 bait for 300 rep. make it x10 for 300 please)
Buying your rep with credits. 
Mining is 100% easier to get top tier gems, and multiple ores. 
Fishing spawns are high, and at rank 3 you get a AoE spear. 
Bounty objectives are incredibly quick to complete.
Maxing standing for vent kids is done insanely fast as well. 
Because of buying rep with credits, fish can 100% be used as materials, cut up all you get. youll have EVERY material youll ever need by fishing and mining cause you won't be turning them in for rep!
Bounties give bonus'!! Even double loot rolls with the bonus sometimes! 
You can FARM the operator drops without waiting!! 

What is not grind; 
Daily standing cap. Once you cap you are no longer grinding! 
Low MR players complaining? That's their fault and problem for not getting their MR rank up for all this! 
New to the game? Why are you here, go do the quests and startchart and max some stuff out. 
Didn't get your MR up because you didn't want certain weapons and thought MR 16-18 was okay? That's your own fault in a looter completionist game. 

If cap was erased, everyone would have everything maxed out and own everything day 1
after they spent a full year making this content for us, why would they change standing cap? We would defeat their whole update in a matter of hours. 
You'd all be asking "WHATS NEXT" 
You'd all stop playing wf and wait for next content update. 
Now quit complaining about a standing cap because  YOUR MR is too low. 
instead GO GET RANKED UP. 

ENJOY the update. PLAY the game. 
Go hunting, fishing, mining once you hit cap. 
Play other modes, finish cetus if you haven't. 
Go farm primes, and invasions, and sorties, and the other several syndicates. 
Go play the game and get things done rather than complaining about one DLC that was all FREE.

If you have time to complain on the forums, you have time to get your MR rank up for standing cap increase, 

Exactly! good point, i totally agree with 🙂

[IggySnow]

I feel like bounties shouldn't count towards daily standing cap, but then make bounties refresh less often. At least that way there's no way to exploit the system and get to max rank in 3 days, but it also lets people keep playing the new content through out the day. Right now doing all of the bounties awards around 15-16k rep and they refresh every 2.5 hours. If the bounty refresh time was changed to something like 4-5 hours then that would make it so if you really want to rank up then you could get an extra 30k rep a day, maybe 45k if you were VERY dedicated.

[FlusteredFerret]

19 hours ago, -Icicles- said:

Resources like Gems, fishes, Eidolon Cores, debt-bonds should just ignore the daily standing limit or at least give them a separate limit cap.

EDIT: Limit the trade to 5000 standings, add 200 per mastery then add to your current standing limit. So the formula would be (5000+(200*MR)) + Current Standing Cap.

 

EDIT 2: I'm not really talking about the grind. I dare say the grind in Fortuna is already perfect and an improvement from PoE. Kudos to DE for that! The problem is timegating as many mentioned in the post. It sometimes take way too long to reach the next milestone for some players and can be off putting, even.

Depends on your definition of "too long".

Not everyone likes to spend hours / days grinding like crazy. A lot of people are just happy to get there when they get there and don't even notice stuff like caps and "time gating".

 

19 hours ago, pauli133 said:

That's not "screwed big time", that's "mildly inconvenienced". Low MR players have no shortage of things they should be doing.

As an MR8 player I can confirm this. Got lots besides Fortuna to keep me occupied.

 

19 hours ago, Pr1A said:

Time-gating =/= grind.

Grinding means performing repetitive tasks in order to acquire stuff or proceed in the game. Know the difference.

In fact, one could argue that the standing caps are there to prevent people from grinding to the point of burn-out.

I've made this point a few times. There have been a couple of well-publicised cases where gamers have DIED during marathon sessions (not playing WF though) and restricting the amount of grinding players can do per day, both increases the longevity of the content and discourages players from spending an unhealthy amount of time on the game.

 

[Squeekly]

"MR means nothing"

"Lower MR players suffer time gates"

[NaoEthelia]

I wouldn't mind an extra 5K Standing Cap. And I'm MR19 here.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

Uhm... Question.... What's keeping the low MR players from... You know.... Just ranking up? 

The can buy blueprints from the market, put them to build. Farm Primes from relics, and put those to build. Buy, the completed research from dojo labs, farm forma, and put them all to build. Level them up in groups in between. Then do the tests. 

 

I mean that's how it works, isn't it? It's what we're all doing/have done? It's how we increase our daily standing limit, isn't it? 

I mean, don't get me wrong, I know how easy it is to get a nice weapon/frame combo and stick to the routine. I know how boring Hydron starts to get after a few days worth of play time. I know that the gain in daily standing is pretty small by comparison to the amount of work that goes into it. But I also know that it has a cumulative effect. 

 

If the lower rank players find that they've still got a bit of grind tolerance after filling the daily standing... They can work on ranking up instead. 

[DreisterDino]

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Just have some fun maybe?

Edited November 12, 2018 by DreisterDino

[Firetempest]

I remember seeing the comment (may have been sone other time gate topic) but, about how "if you can complete the update in a day without time gates, then it only had one day of content" 

One can pretty much ace any $60 AAA game in a single day if it's not a open world travel-athon.

Yes it's a artificial wait. Sure there is buisness logic to make people come back. But also chew your damn food before swallowing. I think they are well aware the community mentality is to work tirelessly to complete everything asap. In a lot of countries, it is their job to be a nanny too 'its been a hour, take a break' I don't think it's particularly right or wrong to make ones players slowly digest the content you worked a year on for at least a week.