Jump to content

can we stop complaining about "time walls" and "standing cap"


pig666eon
 Share

Recommended Posts

lets get a few things out of the way, warframe is a FTP game. its a live service that makes it revenue from items/ frames/ cosmetics/ rushes ect ect, is it mandatory? no.....

warframe is bigger than fortuna, its just dlc, a free one i might add.... everything in the game is time gated its been like that from the start its not a new thing that fortuna brought with it. there is so many people complaining that they dont have everything on day one and why its terrible but the fact is thats the way the game has always been, to be complaining about a free game looking for support on a game they do for free is disgusting, no one is forced to buy anything but if you want things a bit faster then you spend some plat to have early access and supporting the devs hard work in the process, there is nothing locked behind a pay wall you have to earn it by playing the game or pay some plat for early access, to then be giving out about a "time wall" is just idiotic tbh you need to understand that your playing a FTP game 

you then have people complaining about the standing cap... well thats all down to your MR rank, if you have a low MR rank then you need to play the game more to raise that. again this isnt something that is new to the game everyone has it, if you have low MR then fortuna shouldnt be your main focus, there is plenty in the game that you should be doing to get your level up. fortuna  has been a year in the making and its the same setup as poe so for you not to work on getting your standing cap raised for this is on you and if your new to the game then as said there is alot more to this game than fortuna, so do your caps and play the rest of the game as it should be played, fortuna is just dlc after all....

the devs where in here on sat working to make sure the game is being patched which has my respect and all i see on the forums is why dont i have items straight away this is BS, the devs need to be supported and you do that by spending some money, so the complaining about the business model needs to stop and understood properly, not having stuff day one is not the end of the world, raising your MR will help and should be focus while your waiting for your standing to reset

there is no valid reason in any of these complaints i have been seeing, they all just look like entitled kids giving out and it needs to stop. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally I have an issue with designing the game around trying to 'make' players buy things with plat instead of making content that makes us 'want' to buy it....  I'm not sure about others but trying to 'make' me buy something actually puts me off buying it.

Now it might not seem like much of a difference but to me there is a difference between making something which makes you feel like you 'need' to buy it for plat versus making something where you 'want' to buy it save some time and effort. 

No one in the game expects zero grind with new items when they're linked to a new map (garuda for example) but when that grind is deliberately time gated because items you require are only accessible after unlocking higher tiers, tiers which you are only allowed a limited amount of progress with per day, no matter what MR you are, then that to me is designed to 'make' players buy things. 

Not to mention for a higher MR player, who has everything else, they might actually want to farm the item rather than buying it because, well they have nothing else to do....

Edited by LSG501
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Personally I have an issue with designing the game around trying to 'make' players buy things with plat instead of making content that makes us 'want' to buy it....  I'm not sure about others but trying to 'make' me buy something actually puts me off buying it.

I mean, I haven't felt pushed to buy anything. Garuda is just another Warframe, I can wait a few days. I couldn't buy a kitgun I want even if I wanted to. Buying a K-Drive is tempting, but they also are very reasonably priced and only cosmetic.

 

The only thing that is bugging me is the Clan research weapons. And it bugs me even more after seeing a Battacor in the Enrichment Labs. Just imagine, rather than having to wait for clan research, if you could go through an unreasonably complicated process of turning on terminals and doing weird things inside each of the main bases to be rewarded with the BP for one of the weapons (Three bases, three weapons, how convenient). And it doesn't even have to be non-combat, maybe you need to kill a certain amount of enemies to get a drop to turn on one of those panels. There are so many possibilities.

But rather than having a really interesting way to get a new weapon, we have to wait 10 days. I think the rest of the Fortuna grind is 'fine', but the clan tech rubs me the wrong way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Personally I have an issue with designing the game around trying to 'make' players buy things with plat instead of making content that makes us 'want' to buy it....  I'm not sure about others but trying to 'make' me buy something actually puts me off buying it.

Now it might not seem like much of a difference but to me there is a difference between making something which makes you feel like you 'need' to buy it for plat versus making something where you 'want' to buy it save some time and effort. 

No one in the game expects zero grind with new items when they're linked to a new map (garuda for example) but when that grind is deliberately time gated because items you require are only accessible after unlocking higher tiers, tiers which you are only allowed a limited amount of progress with per day, no matter what MR you are, then that to me is designed to 'make' players buy things. 

warframe is the most balanced FTP game out there, go see how other games do it and you wouldnt feel like you do, if this was a paid game and you had to pay just to play fortuna would that make it better? they spent a year making this dlc... i still dont get how people cant see that they need to make money for doing so 

if you have high MR then a few hours a day for just over a week will have everything available and this is a problem? if you dont have high MR then fortuna shouldnt be your main focus anyway. if you really want or need the items right now then support the devs i dont see the issue here, otherwise be glad the game is FTP and you can earn the items by waiting instead of being forced to buy them, id rather that setup than never being able to get items unless i paid for them. look at desitny 2 after spending 140 for a crap game they throttle you grinding too much, i dont see any issue with the way DE has their business model its very fair for a free game, if you think its not then you are expecting too much from them

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a game that follows the line of thinking that you have, "Accept and pass the hand on the heads of the developers," and it is called XXXXXXX 2, and look where the game is, A game all sliced and sold overpriced in relation to the content, if you complain in the forums the users themselves use the famous excuse "If you do not like the game get out" Even if you want to improve the game, and look where the game has come, a dlc PAY to fix the game that they even broke, and who pays ??? Does the player want the warframe to become this?

If the developer does something good, we thank you, if they do something bad we complain, simple and efficient

and on TimeGate, only raise the Grind and either raise the Limit or remove them, if the DE wants money and only it focuses on bringing more TennoGen and more Skins Deluxes and solved, visual items are things that do not spend as much as a map open, and if you doubt it brings more money, and does not disturb the content of the players

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a difference between having to work for things and having to wait to work for things. Timewalls are a mistake in this game and make me not want to play the game once I reach the standing cap, they should be either removed or at the very least doubled.

Also, Warframe being a free game is not an excuse, and everyone should stop using it as an excuse, Also, you literally said the word "free" a total of 5 times in your thread. It. Is. Not. An. Excuse.

It just makes things boring and artificially increases the time spent to get things. It's not fun at all, and it doesn't make too much of a difference, because, if I reach the standing cap, I'm just going to stop playing completely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, pig666eon said:

snip

Just because I'm high MR, and have more than enough plat to actually buy all the new stuff, doesn't mean I cant see things which are being done for a specific purpose and if we don't raise the issue we could end up with it happening more and more with it eventually leading to being really unbalanced and that is not a good thing for the game.  

You go on about how they spent a year on a 'dlc' for the game but you also forget how they pretty much neglected every other way of getting income during that time, so yes they're ftp but it's not our fault they didn't put out enough stuff in that time to sell plat etc.  DE also rely too heavily on tennogen for cosmetics (which they get a cut of), where if they actually made more (and they've openly said they need to do more) players might actually buy stuff more often meaning timegates wouldn't be needed to 'encourage' plat usage. 

EDIT: And before anyone says it, this isn't a knock against DE, I know they work hard and are passionate about the game etc but that still doesn't mean they get everything right when it comes to 'balance' in the game. 

Edited by LSG501
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Caliboom said:

There's a difference between having to work for things and having to wait to work for things. Timewalls are a mistake in this game and make me not want to play the game once I reach the standing cap, they should be either removed or at the very least doubled.

Also, Warframe being a free game is not an excuse, and everyone should stop using it as an excuse, Also, you literally said the word "free" a total of 5 times in your thread. It. Is. Not. An. Excuse.

It just makes things boring and artificially increases the time spent to get things. It's not fun at all, and it doesn't make too much of a difference, because, if I reach the standing cap, I'm just going to stop playing completely.

anything you have said is so entitled... that they owe you for your time, like honestly listen to yourself.... the game being free is no excuse? get over yourself honestly.. the game is free nothing nada and you dont need to spend money to progress ah but my standing cap they game is not not fun, well maybe being charged for the dlc would have made it better maybe? might have got that fun back into the game

if thats your attitude and you think its boring then why even continue on playing, 

Edited by pig666eon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Caliboom said:

There's a difference between having to work for things and having to wait to work for things. Timewalls are a mistake in this game and make me not want to play the game once I reach the standing cap, they should be either removed or at the very least doubled.

Also, Warframe being a free game is not an excuse, and everyone should stop using it as an excuse, Also, you literally said the word "free" a total of 5 times in your thread. It. Is. Not. An. Excuse.

It just makes things boring and artificially increases the time spent to get things. It's not fun at all, and it doesn't make too much of a difference, because, if I reach the standing cap, I'm just going to stop playing completely.

And it's a good thing you aren't a game designer, because they are in place so that all the content can't be finished within a single day.

Removing them would essentially kill the game as people would be bored within a few days of any new content even the size of Fortuna and PoE

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Just because I'm high MR, and have more than enough plat to actually buy all the new stuff, doesn't mean I cant see things which are being done for a specific purpose and if we don't raise the issue we could end up with it happening more and more with it eventually leading to being really unbalanced and that is not a good thing for the game.  

You go on about how they spent a year on a 'dlc' for the game but you also forget how they pretty much neglected every other way of getting income during that time, so yes they're ftp but it's not our fault they didn't put out enough stuff in that time to sell plat etc.  DE also rely too heavily on tennogen for cosmetics (which they get a cut of), where if they actually made more (and they've openly said they need to do more) players might actually buy stuff more often meaning timegates wouldn't be needed to 'encourage' plat usage. 

 

so what exactly do you want in the game that your willing to spend money on? if you think of spending plat as you supporting the devs instead of a waste then you might not think the way that you do

people have to wait just over a week to get all the items fortuna has to offer, i really dont get why this is deemed as unbalanced or unfair, bfv is a week early for the deluxe edition and ea access has it earlier than that if your on that, they all require more money to do so... so why is this wrong in warframe that is FTP

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, pig666eon said:

"entitled" crap and shilling

As a customer I AM ENTITLED to complain as much as I want. And DE as a company has to either take it, or stop being a business. They are free to ignore whining of any kind though, just like you should. Stop defending a corporation they aren't your friends, you are not earning any brownie points or anything. If someone make a business, they ought to accept people will complain. That's it. If DE thinks those complaints are unreasonable, they won't act on them, if they consider them justified, they will. You as another customer have no right to tell anyone how and what to say to DE.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the main problem i see in fortuna is the "fish bait" is locked behind standing. i mean each one. yes its low but i would rather have BP to craft it all i want. standing cap i see needing to be removed in the open world standings. just open world. but "free" is not excuses. it only covers up what can be improved. soon as you go "its free" you can't complain just halts progress. we need to find even ground. in open worlds i think standing should not be cap. if we do have cap have money system that is earned only in fortuna that vendors use then have whole another standing that can be capped just for the open world rank.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

vor 12 Minuten schrieb pig666eon:

anything you have said is so entitled... that they owe you for your time, like honestly listen to yourself.... the game being free is no excuse? get over yourself honestly.. the game is free nothing nada and you dont need to spend money to progress ah but my standing cap they game is not not fun, well maybe being charged for the dlc would have made it better maybe? might have got that fun back into the game

if thats your attitude and you think its boring then why even continue on playing, 

I honestly can't tell if you're trying to annoy people with your "everyone else I wrong because their opinion is different from my own"-attitude, or if you're really unable to see the bigger picture here.

 

Yes, WF is a free game. No, that doesn't make it okay to force people to wait for hours just so they can increase their standing.

Like, leveling up a syndicate can't be done by simply "buying" standing with plat, you have to grind it. Forcing us to wait by making time-walls only makes that process take longer than it should. And DE gains nothing from it.

In other words, time-walls and standing caps are completely useless and annoying

 

But then again, why do I even try to explain this to you, since you're just going to tell me how "wrong" I am and that "we're all so entitled".

I'm out.

Edited by o0Despair0o
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, pig666eon said:

anything you have said is so entitled... that they owe you for your time, like honestly listen to yourself.... the game being free is no excuse? get over yourself honestly.. the game is free nothing nada and you dont need to spend money to progress ah but my standing cap they game is not not fun, well maybe being charged for the dlc would have made it better maybe? might have got that fun back into the game

if thats your attitude and you think its boring then why even continue on playing, 

Entitled? And I never said they owed for my time, you reach the standing cap too quickly, the standing cap should be doubled, or at the very least double the grinding itself and remove the standing cap, as I said, it makes me things unfun and forces people to stop playing once they reach the cap, since there's no point in doing so. And stop talking about things completely unrelated to what or anybody in this thread said. You keep bringing up completely different and unrelated topics. Everyone has the right to complain, whether you like it or not, the devs are supposed to listen to feedback from the community in order to make the game better.

Edited by Caliboom
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

And it's a good thing you aren't a game designer, because they are in place so that all the content can't be finished within a single day.

Removing them would essentially kill the game as people would be bored within a few days of any new content even the size of Fortuna and PoE

This is a worthless argument. So you finish in one day, or stretch it out to 10. What's the difference when we'll wait another year for the next update? 

I don't really care so much. I only have about enough play time normally to hit the cap. Say though, I have a day home from work and want to play. With a standing cap, I'm done within an hour. This isn't good either. Maybe standing cap then anything after is counted at 10%

Edited by Kebast
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, pig666eon said:

so what exactly do you want in the game that your willing to spend money on? if you think of spending plat as you supporting the devs instead of a waste then you might not think the way that you do

people have to wait just over a week to get all the items fortuna has to offer, i really dont get why this is deemed as unbalanced or unfair, bfv is a week early for the deluxe edition and ea access has it earlier than that if your on that, they all require more money to do so... so why is this wrong in warframe that is FTP

Actually I do think of spending plat (and I have bought it as well as traded for it) as supporting the devs, but as I said their current decisions actually make me NOT want to invest or use plat. 

Um people of high MR need to wait a little over a week but this is VENUS which I think I hit before I was MR5, which would be 6k daily standing versus 26k that an mr25 has.... so.... artificial time gates aren't an issue and doesn't make it look like you can only get things via plat... 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Meicoomon_Prime said:

the main problem i see in fortuna is the "fish bait" is locked behind standing. i mean each one. yes its low but i would rather have BP to craft it all i want. standing cap i see needing to be removed in the open world standings. just open world. but "free" is not excuses. it only covers up what can be improved. soon as you go "its free" you can't complain just halts progress. we need to find even ground. in open worlds i think standing should not be cap. if we do have cap have money system that is earned only in fortuna that vendors use then have whole another standing that can be capped just for the open world rank.   

I don't really see the fish bait as much of an issue. It's more of a buy what you need and the crazy part is you don't need the bait to enforce the spawns to happen. All the fish can be caught with just the emp spear and knowledge of drop locations (and understanding how hotspots and warm/freeze time work). I have caught functionally every fish but two; the two I haven't being the cave hotspots (rare orokin) and that has more to do with finding a good cave pond and it having a hotspot.

The only real issue that fishing has (from my experiences) is that the warm period and freezing period, specifically the warm period is only 4 minutes long. Freezing period is only 22 minutes which is a perfect value but if the warm could be bumped from 4 minutes to 8 minutes or 10 minutes of warm to catch the warm fish, the system would be perfect. I don't think the system needs you to grind too much for warm fish. Mostly you just need about 40 Thermal lasers which drop from Kriller who only spawn in lakes during the 4 minute warm period. The lasers being required to craft a Gaze Beam kitgun. And it's not so bad since again, freezing period is about 22 minutes so even if it's only a 4 minute window, that window pops up a bunch but it would be a lot more convenient if it was 8-10 minutes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

then let me reset the daily standing cap with plat. it would be a massive plat sink that the game could definitely use and also even if the price was something stupidly high its not like vets are exactly "low" on plat right now. and it doesn't even lock F2P players from content

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I honestly never understood this mentality, and i never will.

Everything is always about farming, everything must be efficient (even this word in a game confuses me)...and then complain about burn-out afterwards, really clever!

I was spending a lot of time in Fortuna this weekend, and people with this mentality i mentioned would say i "wasted" time.

But i simply had fun exploring the map, getting used to everything new, trying out stuff in a slow pace not worrying about standing/grinding/farming at all.

There are so much caves, huge facilities, small details and puzzles (and maybe bigger ones no one has found yet) you could look out for.

Compared to PoE which was kinda empty, this place has something to offer, just go out and enjoy it!

I guess half of time i was doing anything "productive" at all, but i enjoyed it^^

 

I know this game is focussed on gathering stuff, but why can so many people not simply enjoy an expansion this big and new just for a few days or weeks before they start to grind and farm the s*** out of it as efficient as possible? I know the answer already, efficiency+rewards>fun. Thats what counts. I have read that alot in the forums in my topic about Arbitrations and rewards. But i will never understand that and can just shake my head about that.

 

On a sidenote: Regarding Garuda...i think i pretty much gathered everything i need for her while simply having a bit of fun. The funny thing is, i havent looked at the BP's yet because i got told i have to be rank 4 at Solaris United before i can build here so i didnt care much. I know i need those Toroids, and i got them, but i dont know what other Fortuna ressources i need. But i know that when i get to that rank, i have everything i need to build her. And i had fun doing it because i didnt worry about farming efficient, timegates, drop rates and bad game design choices. But if thats your priority you are not even able to see the good things this place might have to offer in my opinion.

 

TLDR: Just enjoy this place for a few days/weeks and have fun exploring and just try out stuff before you start to farm/grind

Edited by DreisterDino
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

I honestly never understood this mentality, and i never will.

Everything is always about farming, everything must be efficient (even this word in a game confuses me)...and then complain about burn-out afterwards, really clever!

I was spending a lot of time in Fortuna this weekend, and people with this mentality i mentioned would say i "wasted" time.

But i simply had fun exploring the map, getting used to everything new, trying out stuff in a slow pace not worrying about standing/grinding/farming at all.

There are so much caves, huge facilities, small details and puzzles (and maybe bigger ones no one has found yet) you could look out for.

Compared to PoE which was kinda empty, this place has something to offer, just go out and enjoy it!

 

I know this game is focussed on gathering stuff, but why can so many people not simply enjoy an expansion this big and new just for a few days or weeks before they start to grind and farm the s*** out of it as efficient as possible? I know the answer already, efficiency+rewards>fun. Thats what counts. I have read that alot in the forums in my topic about Arbitrations and rewards. But i will never understand that and can just shake my head about that.

 

On a sidenote: Regarding Garuda...i think i pretty much gathered everything i need for her while simply having a bit of fun. The funny thing is, i havent looked at the BP's yet because i got told i have to be rank 4 at Solaris United before i can build here so i didnt care much. I know i need those Toroids, and i got them, but i dont know what other Fortuna ressources i need. But i know that when i get to that rank, i have everything i need to build her. And i had fun doing it because i didnt worry about farming efficient, timegates, drop rates and what not.

 

TLDR: Just enjoy this place for a few days/weeks and have fun exploring and just try out stuff before you start to farm/grind

To build her you need certain cut gems, the blueprints for which are locked behind certain ranks. It wouldn't be so bad if the BPs were relatively low on the ladder in terms of rank, but they aren't. The lowest rank that materials to make a Garuda part are available at is Rapscallion rank for the Star Amarast, which you need that plus Axidrol alloy to make her Neuroptics. That plus the rather high drop rate for Garuda's parts(seriously, in two days I've already gotten seven Garuda Chassis BPs) makes it frustrating to try to attain her without buying her for plat.

Edited by Kerberos-3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Kerberos-3:

To build her you need certain cut gems, the blueprints for which are locked behind certain ranks. It wouldn't be so bad if the BPs were relatively low on the ladder in terms of rank, but they aren't. The lowest rank that materials to make a Garuda part are available at is Rapscallion rank for the Star Amarast, which you need that plus Axidrol alloy to make her Neuroptics. That plus the rather high drop rate for Garuda's parts(seriously, in two days I've already gotten seven Garuda Chassis BPs) makes it frustrating to try to attain her without buying her for plat.

I know, and i have the feeling you dont understand what i am trying to say at all.

Zitat

But i know that when i get to that rank, i have everything i need to build her. And i had fun doing it because i didnt worry about farming efficient,

 

I dont care and i am not frustated at all. Actually, it doesnt even make sense to "farm" everything for her because at the point when you can build her, you will have everything you need already anyway if you just play the game and enjoy yourself doing it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

I honestly never understood this mentality, and i never will.

Certain game mechanics being bad or not as good as they could be is not dependent on your opinion or playstyle. Just because you didn't feel "forced to grind" doesn't mean the mechanics weren't made to force you. You just didn't get hooked by the marketing strategy, consider yourself lucky.

DE made certain decisions in order to gain more money by posssibly decreasing the quality of their experience (it is disputable of course, that's the thing, you could totally diasgrre on this point). Just because you or anothher person didn't feel like that happened, doesn't mean it didn't. Seeing as some people did feel forced to grind, maybe menas there was something forcing them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

I dont care and i am not frustated at all. Actually, it doesnt even make sense to "farm" everything for her because at the point when you can build her, you will have everything you need already anyway if you just play the game and enjoy yourself doing it.

This isn't about YOU. It's about the fact there are people that DID feel frustrated. Care to show some empathy?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...