Garuda Changes/Suggestions

[ShockBurst]

1. Shooting her blood orb should not remove the mirror shield since enemies are still shooting at her from the time of release/shot (which is when the shield mirror drops) to the time of impact.  Due to her low hp, she is quickly taken down depending on enemy level.

2. Her 1 should have a brief invincibility state similar to Atlas' 1 since enemies apart from the one she pounces, are still attacking from multiple directions. A brief invincibility can allow her to make some space as a jump start when trying to safely get back to cover or a jump start for maneuvering (since this ability animation really limits movement).

3. Garuda's shield can be made wider or curved. All of her abilities limit movement in some way and this makes it difficult for her to survive at times due to fire coming from multiple directions. Warframe is a fast paced game which is why her slowed and limited movement affect her survivability (especially since 1 and 2 literally teleport her into the midst of danger). A curved shield would not be overpowered since she is still a very fragile frame and enemy herds are usually well dispersed in all directions (especially her vulnerable back). In my opinion, teleporting usually leaves her very vulnerable to enemies on the side or sightly on the side of her.

4. The spread reticle of her 4 should be a bit faster since her movement is extremely limited and the spread time also discourages its use in fast paced missions. 

 

Apart from those changes I want, I think the team made a very great frame that also caters to the endurance community that is usually forgotten.

Edited November 11, 2018 by ShockBurst

[VolrinaQuarra]

Garuda's talons....dear developers Garuda is BEST but PLEASE set base crit chance for talons 20% and status 20% too....let us choose between crit or status or hybrid build!

[Xolgys]

vor 1 Minute schrieb VolrinaQuarra:

Garuda's talons....dear developers Garuda is BEST but PLEASE set base crit chance for talons 20% and status 20% too....let us choose between crit or status or hybrid build!

just no...why does every weapon have to have crit chance. use venka prime if u want one thats hybrid viable.

i agree, her talons need a bit more although they are already servicable.

most importantly though i think her passive needs a duration on the highest buff amount so that we can actually make use of it even if were healing up. doesnt have to be long, but at least something. maybe 3 seconds base and affected by duration mods with an internal cooldown of the same duration so that we cant "spam" a +100% dmg buff. that way it requires some calculation/timing.

vor 52 Minuten schrieb ShockBurst:

1. Shooting her blood orb should not remove the mirror shield since enemies are still shooting at her from the time of release/shot (which is when the shield mirror drops) to the time of impact.  Due to her low hp, she is quickly taken down depending on enemy level.

2. Her 1 should have a brief invincibility state similar to Atlas' 1 since enemies apart from the one she pounces, are still attacking from multiple directions. A brief invincibility can allow her to make some space as a jump start when trying to safely get back to cover or a jump start for maneuvering (since this ability animation really limits movement).

3. Garuda's shield can be made wider or curved. All of her abilities limit movement in some way and this makes it difficult for her to survive at times due to fire coming from multiple directions. Warframe is a fast paced game which is why her slowed and limited movement affect her survivability (especially since 1 and 2 literally teleport her into the midst of danger). A curved shield would not be overpowered since she is still a very fragile frame and enemy herds are usually well dispersed in all directions (especially her vulnerable back). In my opinion, teleporting usually leaves her very vulnerable to enemies on the side or sightly on the side of her.

4. The spread reticle of her 4 should be a bit faster since her movement is extremely limited and the spread time also discourages its use in fast paced missions.

1. agree

2. she should be invincible during 1 cast, that would be fine but not for longer. we could argue that her 2 could require the same thing though but at some point theres the question of "OP ?"

3. if +ability range made the shield a bit wider and higher she wouldnt need the real invinc mentioned in point 2 and still keep a weakness which she does need to balance her.

4. it is affected by natural talent if u wish to improve it. i dont think such a strong ability souldnt have a drawback. i wouldnt mind if its a tiny bit faster, but it does need some cast time to actually balance it.

[GPrime96]

2 hours ago, Xydeth said:

most importantly though i think her passive needs a duration on the highest buff amount so that we can actually make use of it even if were healing up. doesnt have to be long, but at least something. maybe 3 seconds base and affected by duration mods with an internal cooldown of the same duration so that we cant "spam" a +100% dmg buff. that way it requires some calculation/timing.

It would fit her theme too since she's a Cold, Calculated, Gore Frame. After spending time with her, what i learned from her is in the low levels, she's a pain to use but in the higher levels, she can really show her Strength with her Slash Procs and built up damage from her 1, While regenerating health with her 2 and gain energy with her 3. But her three can make her passive bad though and that's my biggest issue i have with Garuda (Passive). This would be a good change for her Passive.

It's possible to defeat 6 lvl 125 Corrupted Heavy Gunners without Invincibility in the Simulacrum as a Rank 18 Garuda but it's difficult since her Shield makes her vulernable at the sides and back. So a curved Shield would help with that. I do wish her 2 was Recastable without me killing the enemy (that's how to recast her current 2) but that's only me. Compare to Khora and Revenant, Garuda is closer to be more like Nidus and Saryn but she still needs changes to become perfect though.

[Xolgys]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb VPrime96:

It would fit her theme too since she's a Cold, Calculated, Gore Frame. After spending time with her, what i learned from her is in the low levels, she's a pain to use but in the higher levels, she can really show her Strength with her Slash Procs and built up damage from her 1, While regenerating health with her 2 and gain energy with her 3. But her three can make her passive bad though and that's my biggest issue i have with Garuda (Passive). This would be a good change for her Passive.

It's possible to defeat 6 lvl 125 Corrupted Heavy Gunners without Invincibility in the Simulacrum as a Rank 18 Garuda but it's difficult since her Shield makes her vulernable at the sides and back. So a curved Shield would help with that. I do wish her 2 was Recastable without me killing the enemy (that's how to recast her current 2) but that's only me. Compare to Khora and Revenant, Garuda is closer to be more like Nidus and Saryn but she still needs changes to become perfect though.

personally i see her as a vampire frame...shes more blood themed than "gore" and the "bathory" helmet is probably tied to the bloody bathory so that part also supports the vampire frame.

shes similar to ash: she becomes stronger the stronger enemies are, as it is the case with all frames which scale with enemies, like octavia does too. saryn too, in a way. she just cant survive well later. i dont find her annoying vs low level, rather fun. dashing from enemy to enemy, causing mayhem with her 4 and if that alone doesnt kill, the 10k+ slash proccs will for sure. i agree about her shield even though i dont have much to complain about her. one part is the passive being realistically very situational and hard to actually use and the other her shield size. it could be a bit bigger or have a scaling with power range. personally i dont think a realistic build for her focuses much on power range and if then that build will be really supportive so a big shield would be fine for that. giving her 1 and 2 invincibility during the jump and animation would surely help her passive but still its difficult to use because both abilities dont really have dmg aspects during/directly after the charge/jump.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Xydeth

[Shelusine]

1. Agreed

2. Agreed

3. I personally don't mind but making it wider sounds good.

4. I disagree with that one. She's a caster and once you put casting mods it becomes really good as it should. What I'd personally want is for the ability to be AoE instead of sight once it reaches full screen. It would make her far more usable in normal content. 

[ShockBurst]

1 hour ago, Shelusine said:

1. Agreed

2. Agreed

3. I personally don't mind but making it wider sounds good.

4. I disagree with that one. She's a caster and once you put casting mods it becomes really good as it should. What I'd personally want is for the ability to be AoE instead of sight once it reaches full screen. It would make her far more usable in normal content. 

Thank you, I forgot to test the 4 with natural talent. I had originally only test the 1 with it. 

I also wanted her 4 to be an AOE but thought it may be OP since players could build for range and just shoot the orb directly at her feet to nuke enemies all around her rather than only the ones in front (because her 1 + 4 combo can kill any regular enemy no matter the level). However I would not mind the 1's explosion damage being able to chain across enemies the same way as khora's whip explosion.

[Shelusine]

1 hour ago, ShockBurst said:

Thank you, I forgot to test the 4 with natural talent. I had originally only test the 1 with it. 

I also wanted her 4 to be an AOE but thought it may be OP since players could build for range and just shoot the orb directly at her feet to nuke enemies all around her rather than only the ones in front (because her 1 + 4 combo can kill any regular enemy no matter the level). However I would not mind the 1's explosion damage being able to chain across enemies the same way as khora's whip explosion.

This could be fixed by making the slash mark an on sight and the damage an AoE if full screen. 

[ShockBurst]

7 hours ago, Shelusine said:

This could be fixed by making the slash mark an on sight and the damage an AoE if full screen. 

So the AoE can be for low to mid level room clearing while the marks are for scaling damage?

[ShockBurst]

Garuda at least needs the 1st and 2nd suggestions because everyone is hyped over the 1 + 4 combo but if you haven't noticed, every YouTuber is only showing how good she is in the simulacrum (while they are invincible or enemies are paused) or against low level enemies in low level missions. They are only showing how good she is on paper.

Edited November 12, 2018 by ShockBurst

[ShockBurst]

On 2018-11-11 at 9:14 PM, Shelusine said:

1. Agreed

2. Agreed

3. I personally don't mind but making it wider sounds good.

4. I disagree with that one. She's a caster and once you put casting mods it becomes really good as it should. What I'd personally want is for the ability to be AoE instead of sight once it reaches full screen. It would make her far more usable in normal content.

Even with natural talent it's still too slow for such a squishy frame (with only one direction protection) that has its movement greatly limited by that ability. I think it can still use at least a slight increase in speed

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

On 2018-11-11 at 8:02 PM, Xydeth said:

personally i see her as a vampire frame...shes more blood themed than "gore" 

Im so flipping happy i found someone who thinks the exact same thing lol, like i 100% agree with you.

 

Imo, a gore warframe should be horrifying not because of the damage it deals but because of the ways it will kill you and make you bleed! Theres this creature from this movie i watched called "silent hill", he picks this person up high for the world to see and, with one hand, pulls all her skin off in one pull. Thats freakin gore!!

Kinda wanted garuda to be the same or prehaps not called a gore frame. I feel like if they stop going for a gore theme on garuda and made her more of a blood mage or made her into a bat looking vampire (like the ones from a movie called "van hellsing") she'd be more appealing to me. Only because it usually ruins the chances of you ever seeing another warframe like it so if this is gonna be the "gore warfeame" just big OOF!! Is why im upset..

Lovely frame tho..

Edited November 14, 2018 by (PS4)Ghost--00--

[Shelusine]

4 hours ago, ShockBurst said:

Even with natural talent it's still too slow for such a squishy frame (with only one direction protection) that has its movement greatly limited by that ability. I think it can still use at least a slight increase in speed

If you buff her 1 the way you suggested I don't really feel like she'll be squishy at all. That being said I don't feel it with natural talent + speed drif but I am not against a buff if it's still  long enough to make natural talent a must.

I also would like to add a suggestion which is to boost her passive by increasing the damage bonus to 150% and adding armor percentage to the mix to make her 3 more effective. I am also tempted to rework her 2, the more I play with her the less it makes sense. My melee recover my health faster than this and its range is so limited that I am usually the only one using it to feed my 3 and health restoration is seriously a low group utility in this game. I would honestly scrap it entirely because there's isn't a single thing its current form can do that would be useful, even making it recover health and energy at the same time could be done by giving her an augment for her 3.

[FreeWilliam]

I'll disclaimer by saying I'm basically a melee main so I've got my bias, that in mind...

1) LOVE the idea of a curved shield on the 1

2) Her passive would be FAR more useful if it offered CC resistance, especially *gasp* stagger resistance.  I think that would really synergize her kit.

3) As powerful as her 4 is, I feel like it doesn't offer much if you're already meleeing and is a bit clunky to use in a group.  

   3a) this may be different for ranged players, but perhaps a mod that gives it a faster casting time but only gives the bonus to 'everyone but you'? 

4) Her 2 is great for making little healturrets but I for one move around so quickly that they're usually just there for everyone else, the fact that they also can hold up defense missions is causing me to not use them as much as perhaps I should.

[CodeUltimate]

14 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

I'll disclaimer by saying I'm basically a melee main so I've got my bias, that in mind...

1) LOVE the idea of a curved shield on the 1

2) Her passive would be FAR more useful if it offered CC resistance, especially *gasp* stagger resistance.  I think that would really synergize her kit.

3) As powerful as her 4 is, I feel like it doesn't offer much if you're already meleeing and is a bit clunky to use in a group.  

   3a) this may be different for ranged players, but perhaps a mod that gives it a faster casting time but only gives the bonus to 'everyone but you'? 

4) Her 2 is great for making little healturrets but I for one move around so quickly that they're usually just there for everyone else, the fact that they also can hold up defense missions is causing me to not use them as much as perhaps I should.

The cc resistence instead of her "extra" damage is quite a good idea I like it but regarding the other points she needs a damage reduction skill instead of a shield because a shield doesn't Work at all with how garuda plays out. A faster animation for her 4 is needed and with those tiny changes she can become meta.

[GPrime96]

1 minute ago, CodeUltimate said:

he needs a damage reduction skill instead of a shield because a shield doesn't Work at all with how garuda plays out. A faster animation for her 4 is needed and with those tiny changes she can become meta.

If the Meta focus on Non - Endless Missions.

[CodeUltimate]

1 minute ago, VPrime96 said:

If the Meta focus on Non - Endless Missions.

Her shield is worse on endless missions since it can't protect her at all and is so restrictive for her movement. Against high level enemies she can get one shotted in the air while doing any of her jump skills. 

[FreeWilliam]

8 minutes ago, CodeUltimate said:

regarding the other points she needs a damage reduction skill instead of a shield because a shield doesn't Work at all with how garuda plays out.

Perhaps something a bit like Zephyr's turbulence?  Not so much to handle in-your-face damage but to deal with snipers and ranged attacks while you're getting from point A to B and smashing mobs?

I think a lot of us are pretty good at surviving melee if we build for it (and I've got a whole bunch of tricks that I just don't bother using because we don't have content that needs it), but spread-out-ranged guys are more of a problem (again, from my skewed perspective) 🙂

[GPrime96]

1 minute ago, CodeUltimate said:

Her shield is worse on endless missions since it can't protect her at all and is so restrictive for her movement. Against high level enemies she can get one shotted in the air while doing any of her jump skills. 

The reason i said Non Endless because without her Shield, you would focus on damaging the enemies with her 4 which wouldn't help with the DR high level enemies can have. The way she scales her Damage with her 4+1 is why the Shield is there. It's more of a damage absorber than a protective tool (though, with the healing of her 2, i guess it could be that at the same time).

[koryfunny]

19 minutes ago, CodeUltimate said:

The cc resistence instead of her "extra" damage is quite a good idea I like it but regarding the other points she needs a damage reduction skill instead of a shield because a shield doesn't Work at all with how garuda plays out. A faster animation for her 4 is needed and with those tiny changes she can become meta.

you can't simply give CC resistence or extra defense of sort INSTEAD of the damage buff, it must come together - else why should I drop my HP to dangerous levels to begin with?

[FreeWilliam]

15 minutes ago, koryfunny said:

you can't simply give CC resistence or extra defense of sort INSTEAD of the damage buff, it must come together - else why should I drop my HP to dangerous levels to begin with?

You never run out of hits with melee and death usually comes from staggers/knockdowns if anything.  I'd happily swap the damage for CC resistance. 

It's ALSO a damage buff because you're spending less time 'not hitting things'.  Damage is overrated in melee.

[GPrime96]

13 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

Damage is overrated in melee.

Not when Melee 3.0 comes out.

[koryfunny]

14 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

You never run out of hits with melee and death usually comes from staggers/knockdowns if anything.  I'd happily swap the damage for CC resistance. 

It's ALSO a damage buff because you're spending less time 'not hitting things'.  Damage is overrated in melee.

a defensive buff to her passive, like CC immunity, will give Garuda the MEANS to stay low health. but what about a REASON to go there?!

garuda has the means to stay full health all the time, what she needs is a reason to go low health. CC resistence is great, but its not enough a reason for me to delibaretly be at death's door with 2HP all the time,  when I could as well simply take that hit and heal up immidiately after! 

Garuda passive definitely need a defensive buff, whether it extra armor, damage reduction or CC immunity. but whatever that buff will be, Garuda still needs a REASON to be at low health, and that damage boost is good enough reason for me to do that! 
don't forget the damage boost applies to all of Garuda weapons and abilities, not melee weapons only... just try it with some insanely powerful main weapon.

[FreeWilliam]

51 minutes ago, koryfunny said:

a defensive buff to her passive, like CC immunity, will give Garuda the MEANS to stay low health. but what about a REASON to go there?!

You don't really need a reason to use a passive. Most of the time when you're at low health it's because you're getting pummeled, not because you used your 3.  You don't need a reason to have low health, and adding damage when you're getting killed isn't always the best solution.

The 3 is just fine just to give you energy so you can use your 1, 2, and 4 and a 100% damage bonus for a frame with a melee kit is pretty piddly, especially compared to all the other damage bonuses some frames can get and share.

I'm not saying 'don't add damage', I'm saying as someone who plays in the thick of things that 'more damage' is WAY less exciting than 'CC resistance'.  CC resistance at low health is a 10/10, the current damage bonus is 1/10, and even a 300% one would only be a 5/10

[CodeUltimate]

2 hours ago, koryfunny said:

you can't simply give CC resistence or extra defense of sort INSTEAD of the damage buff, it must come together - else why should I drop my HP to dangerous levels to begin with?

I never said to ditch the damage absorption from her 1 that is the only useful effect from her skill but what I'm trying to say is to give her a ''blood armor'' with damage reduction instead of a useless shield form while retaining the damage absorption effect. :c