Sentinel weapons shouldn't require separate weapon mods.

[_Vortus_]

4 hours ago, Arc2199 said:

FINE. Give Sentinels their own weapon mods. Current state is S#&$.

Sigh.  The state is fine. 

Feel for ya that you don't have the time to grind but you will have to work that part out yourself.  Already gave you a work around thats fully functional except for the melee ones.   Where you will have to either use unused mods or grind new ones.    But Primary and Shotguns are easy.    Heh.   And maybe the Secondary one... not sure if there is one.   I've only used the Primary/Shotgun weapons on mine for years.

[Novashank]

LOL, why am I not surprised the change-haters rule against this? HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST THAT DE MAKE A CHANGE TO MY BELOVED WARFRAME! THIS GAME IS PERFECT AS IS UNLESS DE DOTH DECREE OTHERWISE!

 

I agree with OP, this is a stupid problem. If we can have the same mod on multiple Warframes, why should it not be shared between a Sentinel weapon and a player weapon? Should DE change the game such that we need a duplicate set of mods for every Warframe?

 

People seem to forget that not everybody that plays Warframe is a hardcore elite veteran with 1000 hours logged and most of the content already collected. There are still some "filthy casuals" who don't take lightly spending several hours farming Arbitrations for Endo or Taveuni for Kuva. The way this game is, it takes weeks, to go from being a newcomer to being built-up for all the major farms. Then it takes at least 2 hours to get 40k endo for JUST ONE 10-rank mod. I really don't think we should just shrug this issue off as a minor convenience that everyone should just suck up. The only minor inconvenience would be for DE to make a quick, small change to this system in a single hotfix. I don't think it's necessary to rush to DE's defense lest they might even consider incurring such an inconvenience merely to appease a few filthy casuals. If it's too much of a hassle for DE, that's THEIR concern, not ours. I really wish people in these forums would understand that. I highly doubt DE dev members suffer in any way just because they observed that someone dared to suggest a new feature or change to the game.

 

Someone explain to us why DE shouldn't make this simple change to the mod system? Will it hurt the game? Will it somehow be a mistake instead of an improvement? Will it make the game less fun for a large portion of the population? Will it cost too many dev hours that could be otherwise better-spent? I'd love to see a credible response. I'm sure the only response I'll see is whiteknights up in arms, though, knowing how people are in these lovely Warframe forums... sigh...

Edited November 13, 2018 by Novashank
Additional input

[trndr]

4 minutes ago, Novashank said:

LOL, why am I not surprised the change-haters rule against this? HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST THAT DE MAKE A CHANGE TO MY BELOVED WARFRAME! THIS GAME IS PERFECT AS IS UNLESS DE DOTH DECREE OTHERWISE!

 

I agree with OP, this is a stupid problem. If we can have the same mod on multiple Warframes, why should it not be shared between a Sentinel weapon and a player weapon? Should DE change the game such that we need a duplicate set of mods for every Warframe? Someone explain to us why DE shouldn't make this simple change to the mod system? Will it hurt the game? Will it somehow be a mistake instead of an improvement? Will it make the game less fun for a large portion of the population? Will it cost too many dev hours that could be otherwise better-spent? I'd love to see a credible response. I'm sure the only response I'll see is whiteknights up in arms, though, knowing how people are in Warframe forums... sigh...

You call it a simple change, and while the code change is simple, the implications are quite big.

Considering the caps and the screaming to get what you want, I imagine you recently started playing the game.

So I'd like to point out, the difference between Primed and non-Primed mod variant in most cases isn't a huge leap, but a slight bump. Now while you may not want to put in the effort for a slight bump there are loads of players who have done this.

Consider the implications of 80-50% of the playerbase having an extra of each Primed weapon mod and Electric dualstat.

And all this just so the few of you can get something for nothing, in a game where everything is based on a balance of how much effort is too much effort.

[_Vortus_]

2 minutes ago, Novashank said:

LOL, why am I not surprised the change-haters rule against this? HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST THAT DE MAKE A CHANGE TO MY BELOVED WARFRAME! THIS GAME IS PERFECT AS IS UNLESS DE DOTH DECREE OTHERWISE!

 

I agree with OP, this is a stupid problem. If we can have the same mod on multiple Warframes, why should it not be shared between a Sentinel weapon and a player weapon? Should DE change the game such that we need a duplicate set of mods for every Warframe? Someone explain to us why DE shouldn't make this simple change to the mod system? Will it hurt the game? Will it somehow be a mistake instead of an improvement? Will it make the game less fun for a large portion of the population? Will it cost too many dev hours that could be otherwise better-spent? I'd love to see a credible response. I'm sure the only response I'll see is whiteknights up in arms, though, knowing how people are in Warframe forums... sigh...

Are you playing two Warframes at the same time?   No, of course not.   So only one Warframe at a time is using the mod.  Its different with weapons.   While if a Warframe is using the Kohm, a shotgun, and its chosen Sentinel is carrying Sweeper, another shotgun, then each weapon would need its own mods to function correctly.  The Sentinel Weapons are not part of the Sentinel.  They are carried/equipped by a Sentinel just like a Warframe carries weapons and need modded as such.   

[Novashank]

3 minutes ago, trndr said:

You call it a simple change, and while the code change is simple, the implications are quite big.

Considering the caps and the screaming to get what you want, I imagine you recently started playing the game.

So I'd like to point out, the difference between Primed and non-Primed mod variant in most cases isn't a huge leap, but a slight bump. Now while you may not want to put in the effort for a slight bump there are loads of players who have done this.

Consider the implications of 80-50% of the playerbase having an extra of each Primed weapon mod and Electric dualstat.

And all this just so the few of you can get something for nothing, in a game where everything is based on a balance of how much effort is too much effort.

Firstly, the caps is not me "screaming," it's an impersonation of the people who so venomously oppose suggestions or complaints. Secondly, I most certainly did not start playing recently. I've been playing Choreframe on and off for about 4 years now and have over 1000 hours logged (sadly). (Here's the part where you quote me and suggest that I go play something else.)

 

Thirdly, are you saying that this is a problem, having extra copies of useful mods? That it's more of a problem having too much, rather than not having enough? I guess I forgot that we're meant to put in the hours for that "pride and a sense of accomplishment," because DE forbid that we have even something miniscule handed to us rather than farm for endless hours for it like upstanding, noble men and women! Only spoiled millennials would think it absurd to have to spend several hours to acquire something, TWICE!

 

Consider the implications of expecting the other 20-50% of the player-base to just bite the bullet(s) and do all that long-haul farming all over again just to make the Sentinel worth bringing to high level missions. I guess the veteran players are more important than them, though. I guess it wouldn't be a good thing to have an extra set of primed and dual-stat mods that can then be sold in Trade.

[Novashank]

9 minutes ago, _Vortus_ said:

Are you playing two Warframes at the same time?   No, of course not.   So only one Warframe at a time is using the mod.  Its different with weapons.   While if a Warframe is using the Kohm, a shotgun, and its chosen Sentinel is carrying Sweeper, another shotgun, then each weapon would need its own mods to function correctly.  The Sentinel Weapons are not part of the Sentinel.  They are carried/equipped by a Sentinel just like a Warframe carries weapons and need modded as such.   

Is this an issue of realism for you? Then perhaps you should examine in the first place how it is that sticking a digital card onto a weapon magically makes it do more damage or shoot multiple shots at once?

[trndr]

7 minutes ago, Novashank said:

I guess it wouldn't be a good thing to have an extra set of primed and dual-stat mods that can then be sold in Trade.

There would be too many on sale for the mods to be worth the trade, let alone the used endo.

We lost Trials due to people calling it "too hard".

We lost Operations due to people calling it "not fair".

We lost Void keys due to people calling it "not right".

Now you want to make the 2nd primed set worthless, even if endo rains from Arbitrations and Index is a credit machine?

 

PS. The sentinel won't be a killing machine past level 50 no matter what you do.

[_Vortus_]

12 minutes ago, Novashank said:

Is this an issue of realism for you? Then perhaps you should examine in the first place how it is that sticking a digital card onto a weapon magically makes it do more damage or shoot multiple shots at once?

You asked for a credible response, got one.  But lets continue.  Ever tune a car?  Specifically older cars that were still new enough to be tuned with computers.  Except you swapped chips with programming on them rather than directly using a pc.  There were also other performance parts that had their own chips, ignition systems mainly.   These chips could change a number of parameters on the car.  Causing them to make more power, be more efficient, alter the power-band, rev limits... all kinds of stuff.   Nowadays, we have chips embedded in our credit cards.   See where I'm going with this?  Mods might be nothing more than tuning chips, like those on cars, that change the parameters of what they are installed in.  More damage, higher crit, more crit damage etc etc. 

 

 

[GnarlsDarkley]

Person A: "I want realism! Burst rifle firing 3 bullets but my mag only has 28 rounds is bs! DE fix asap!!!!11"

Person B: "This is digital. Let us use a banana to feed whole Africa for 2 months!" (not offensive to any African)

You can't satisfiy everyone.

Both are valid points. I don't use a Sentinel weapon after I maxed it. So I don't have this problem. I would favor the side who thinks it's fine to need 2 copies since it makes sense. But if they would change it...what gives.

Edited November 13, 2018 by GnarlsDarkley
for clarification: both are topics I read on this forum in the last month or so

[(XBOX)Dank Lord]

It all boils down to some of you complaining that you have to farm endo. In a game about grinding and farming. When they have just introduced the easiest and most reliable way to farm endo since the start of the game. If you’re a veteran player how do you not have extra mods at different ranks? How would you not have access to easily farming endo? If you aren’t a veteran player, why is THIS the line in the sand for you?

[--PV--Arc]

6 hours ago, (XB1)Dank Lord said:

It all boils down to some of you complaining that you have to farm endo. In a game about grinding and farming. When they have just introduced the easiest and most reliable way to farm endo since the start of the game. If you’re a veteran player how do you not have extra mods at different ranks? How would you not have access to easily farming endo? If you aren’t a veteran player, why is THIS the line in the sand for you?

What? Spend an HOURS AND HOURS in elite alerts to just make my sentinels damage viable while if I use just a bit of endo on my kubrow , it will out damage my sentinel?

I can't believe people here are so fragile that they can't accept changes to their favorite game no matter how much quality of life they bring.

 

[--PV--Arc]

7 hours ago, trndr said:

You call it a simple change, and while the code change is simple, the implications are quite big.

Considering the caps and the screaming to get what you want, I imagine you recently started playing the game.

So I'd like to point out, the difference between Primed and non-Primed mod variant in most cases isn't a huge leap, but a slight bump. Now while you may not want to put in the effort for a slight bump there are loads of players who have done this.

Consider the implications of 80-50% of the playerbase having an extra of each Primed weapon mod and Electric dualstat.

And all this just so the few of you can get something for nothing, in a game where everything is based on a balance of how much effort is too much effort. 

It's not like sentinel weapons are OP in any way possible. Pets already outdamage them by a large margin.

So why NOT be able to use weapon mods on sentinels?

Also HOW can you even know that there are only "a few of us" ? I've run across time after time the weapon who are disappointed with the damage their sentinel does and cannot afford the endo costs of ranking seperate mods for them.

 

[--PV--Arc]

11 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You do see the (PS4) in front of my name here, right? It's not just for fashionframe. Now, can you figure out why I would have specified "for me" and "the way they can be modded"? Or is all that distant whooshing just too distracting? 

Now I don't know about you, but I have made use of the vacuum, quite a lot since I joined. It's helped a lot. It's still helping me. Could be why I'm not acting all salty the way you seem to be. 

You've made it to Sedna right? You've done the arena and farmed, Saryn? You have farmed enough to make some plat that you can use to buy high roll junk rivens? You understand how Google search works? 

If the answer to any of those is "no", then you might have a point. 

Blah blah blah "I'm totally fine farming endo 24/7 just for my sentinel"

I'm not. It's not like this change would affect you in any way and yet you still seem to come here to comment and stroke your ego of how good you are in the game. I don't care how much you have farmed with the use of vacuum. Stop bringing useless points into the discussion.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Arc2199

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

11 hours ago, Arc2199 said:

Blah blah blah "I'm totally fine farming endo 24/7 just for my sentinel"

I'm not. It's not like this change would affect you in any way and yet you still seem to come here to comment and stroke your ego of how good you are in the game. I don't care how much you have farmed with the use of vacuum. Stop bringing useless points into the discussion.

Blah blah blah, "I'm lazy and so crave instant gratification". 

I'm not. Neither are a lot of people. But you just want to pretend to pride in sub-mediocrity? Maybe you could not, instead of demanding that the game is what's broken in this scenario? 

[--PV--Arc]

4 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Blah blah blah, "I'm lazy and so crave instant gratification". 

I'm not. Neither are a lot of people. But you just want to pretend to pride in sub-mediocrity? Maybe you could not, instead of demanding that the game is what's broken in this scenario? 

Instant gratification? What a pathetic joke. What part of maxing weapon mods for primaries was "instant"?

Maybe you like slogging through the same process like a record stuck on repeat. Sure! Go on ahead. While we invest our time in better things.

Making us players go through that slog again IS a flawed game design since there's nothing of the sort when it comes to Kavats and Kubrows. It's a archaic system that needs to be changed.

[(XBOX)Dank Lord]

The entire point of the game is collecting resources and maxing things out. Like endo and mods. You’re literally complaining that you have to play the game. SMH

[--PV--Arc]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Dank Lord said:

The entire point of the game is collecting resources and maxing things out. Like endo and mods. You’re literally complaining that you have to play the game. SMH

Last I checked it wasn't an idle clicker game. If you enjoy those , I'm sure you'll find better games to play than warframe and not come in between of constructive feedback.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Arc2199

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, Arc2199 said:

Instant gratification? What a pathetic joke. What part of maxing weapon mods for primaries was "instant"?

Quite a lot of it, actually, as the endo orbs, the trash mods, the statues, and credits were usually collected passively during play, while I was doing other stuff. 

This meant that apart from the Primed mods, most of the time I was able to rank up or max out a mod as much as I needed, as soon as I needed. 

30 minutes ago, (XB1)Dank Lord said:

The entire point of the game is collecting resources and maxing things out. Like endo and mods. You’re literally complaining that you have to play the game. SMH

Pretty much. And anyone who is doing better, is a "no-life who plays 24/7". But some folks are like that, it seems. 

 

 

31 minutes ago, Arc2199 said:

Last I checked it wasn't an idle clicker game. If you enjoy those , I'm sure you'll find better games to play than warframe and not come in between of constructive feedback.

Well, you're obviously not enjoying playing Warframe enough to actually want to actually play it.... So? 

[--PV--Arc]

45 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Quite a lot of it, actually, as the endo orbs, the trash mods, the statues, and credits were usually collected passively during play, while I was doing other stuff. 

This meant that apart from the Primed mods, most of the time I was able to rank up or max out a mod as much as I needed, as soon as I needed. 

Pretty much. And anyone who is doing better, is a "no-life who plays 24/7". But some folks are like that, it seems. 

 

 

Well, you're obviously not enjoying playing Warframe enough to actually want to actually play it.... So? 

Pretty much shows that you do nothing other than farm endo all day if you are being able to not just max mods but rank the same mods to different ranks just for niche cases.

So this problem is not applicable to you is it? Why then are you giving a #*!% about the people who do have a problem with it? You know... people who actually have a life.

And whoever can't deal with the endo needs isn't playing warframe well enough? How much are you going to jerk yourself off here? Because frankly I don't care what you think at this point nor has any of your comment so far been any kind of constructive criticism. It has been pretty much "I don't have a problem so no one else must as well".

If you enjoy playing the game so much? Why are you even here on the forums? Go no life warframe all day.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Arc2199

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

39 minutes ago, Arc2199 said:

Pretty much shows that you do nothing other than farm endo all day if you are being able to not just max mods but rank the same mods to different ranks just for niche cases.

So this problem is not applicable to you is it? Why then are you giving a #*!% about the people who do have a problem with it? You know... people who actually have a life.

And whoever can't deal with the endo needs isn't playing warframe well enough? How much are you going to jerk yourself off here? Because frankly I don't care what you think at this point nor has any of your comment so far been any kind of constructive criticism. It has been pretty much "I don't have a problem so no one else must as well".

If you enjoy playing the game so much? Why are you even here on the forums? Go no life warframe all day.

Pretty amazing that you can quote someone explaining how they have picked up stuff to convert into endo which generally meets their needs on a regular basis (something that happens during the normal course of the game) and claim that means that all they do is farm endo all day every day. It shows a remarkable disconnect from reality and a general willingness to claim that any bump on the ground is the same as Mount Everest when the reality is pretty clear that you're just feeling lazy and set in your ways. 

 

Regarding why I reply to the thread if I'm not having a problem, well there are several reasons: first is to let people, you included, that not everyone has an issue; second was to let people know that there are many ways to earn endo; third was to let people know how even as a casual player I am managing to get by with getting endo; fourth is because I am allowed to reply in constructive dissent when I see someone asking for a change that the majority don't seem to need. 

Now in response, I'll ask you why you feel you are entitled to tell others not to reply to any given thread? Is that really how you think any of this works? 

Again just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean that my posts aren't constructive. So far you haven't actually given any indication that you actually are doing the sorts of things that would help you to get endo. Your very complaint suggests that you aren't. The only way that I can imagine you have gotten by if you are having these extreme difficulties is, by being carried, quite a lot, and not actually learning to/having played the game. 

So I'm going to ask you some questions plainly:

Have you completed the star chart, and do you have access to all of the nodes on Sedna? 

Do you have access to arbitrations? 

Do you have access to Sorties? 

Do you have a Desecrate-Despoil Nekros? 

Do you have a Pilfering Hydroid? 

Have you consistently used the Vacuum precept in your +/- 9 months of play, and do you currently consistently use either that or Fetch? 

Do you have a stockpile of trash mods that you can convert into endo, and do you regularly do so as opposed to converting into credits? 

Do you have Ayatan stars and filled statues that you can convert into endo and do you do this as needed? 

 

And lastly, but very importantly - do you actually play Warframe and if so do you enjoy doing so? 

 

 

Have fun with those. 

[--PV--Arc]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Pretty amazing that you can quote someone explaining how they have picked up stuff to convert into endo which generally meets their needs on a regular basis (something that happens during the normal course of the game) and claim that means that all they do is farm endo all day every day. It shows a remarkable disconnect from reality and a general willingness to claim that any bump on the ground is the same as Mount Everest when the reality is pretty clear that you're just feeling lazy and set in your ways. 

 

Regarding why I reply to the thread if I'm not having a problem, well there are several reasons: first is to let people, you included, that not everyone has an issue; second was to let people know that there are many ways to earn endo; third was to let people know how even as a casual player I am managing to get by with getting endo; fourth is because I am allowed to reply in constructive dissent when I see someone asking for a change that the majority don't seem to need. 

Now in response, I'll ask you why you feel you are entitled to tell others not to reply to any given thread? Is that really how you think any of this works? 

Again just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean that my posts aren't constructive. So far you haven't actually given any indication that you actually are doing the sorts of things that would help you to get endo. Your very complaint suggests that you aren't. The only way that I can imagine you have gotten by if you are having these extreme difficulties is, by being carried, quite a lot, and not actually learning to/having played the game. 

So I'm going to ask you some questions plainly:

Have you completed the star chart, and do you have access to all of the nodes on Sedna? 

Do you have access to arbitrations? 

Do you have access to Sorties? 

Do you have a Desecrate-Despoil Nekros? 

Do you have a Pilfering Hydroid? 

Have you consistently used the Vacuum precept in your +/- 9 months of play, and do you currently consistently use either that or Fetch? 

Do you have a stockpile of trash mods that you can convert into endo, and do you regularly do so as opposed to converting into credits? 

Do you have Ayatan stars and filled statues that you can convert into endo and do you do this as needed? 

 

And lastly, but very importantly - do you actually play Warframe and if so do you enjoy doing so? 

 

 

Have fun with those. 

Going on the defensive eh? Did the ground below your feet shift when the realization hit you?

Making people dumb hundreds of thousands of more endo into sentinel weapons just to make them viable and a few hundred endo into kubrow/kavats to make them amazing is a better state than bringing them into equal footing! Such logic. MUCH WOW.

Your argument is pathetic and screams of elitism that has grown deep roots in the warframe community. Next time someone asks me why the PS4 Warframe community sucks , I will have a good example to show them.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 minutes ago, Arc2199 said:

Going on the defensive eh? Did the ground below your feet shift when the realization hit you?

Making people dumb hundreds of thousands of more endo into sentinel weapons just to make them viable and a few hundred endo into kubrow/kavats to make them amazing is a better state than bringing them into equal footing! Such logic. MUCH WOW.

Your argument is pathetic and screams of elitism that has grown deep roots in the warframe community. Next time someone asks me why the PS4 Warframe community sucks , I will have a good example to show them.

What a surprise, not a single answer to any of the questions. It's almost as though you don't want to admit that you haven't been doing the things that would allow you to easily deal with what you are making out to be such an insurmountable problem. 

Why do you think that blaming others for your not doing what they can, is a good way to solve your problem? Why do you think that everyone else should change the game, to suit someone who wants to not actually play? 

 

And like I said, I'm a pretty casual player and started around the same time as you. I'm not going out of my way to do what you are claiming can't be done without 24/7 grind. If you think that I'm elite, then you are probably really, really far below the curve. 

Why don't you try and actually play the game at some stage, instead of complaining about how difficult it, about other people who can do stuff you choose not to, and generally everything that indicates that you actually can do it with minimal effort?

[--PV--Arc]

46 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

What a surprise, not a single answer to any of the questions. It's almost as though you don't want to admit that you haven't been doing the things that would allow you to easily deal with what you are making out to be such an insurmountable problem. 

Why do you think that blaming others for your not doing what they can, is a good way to solve your problem? Why do you think that everyone else should change the game, to suit someone who wants to not actually play? 

 

And like I said, I'm a pretty casual player and started around the same time as you. I'm not going out of my way to do what you are claiming can't be done without 24/7 grind. If you think that I'm elite, then you are probably really, really far below the curve. 

Why don't you try and actually play the game at some stage, instead of complaining about how difficult it, about other people who can do stuff you choose not to, and generally everything that indicates that you actually can do it with minimal effort?

Blah blah blah "you don't play enough. git gut"

 

How elitist can you be? Do you go gatekeeping around the internet just like this?

 

And why would I even bother to answer you if you can't even acknowledge the comparison I've made about kubrows/kavats and sentinels. You're simply not worth it.

 

[Madway7]

Damn this feels very close to how dumb the vaccuum debate was...

Is this thread really from this week? While we have Fortuna? And Moa pets, that use sentinel weapons and have litterally no reason to not have a weapon equiped (yes they get shot at a lot even without a weapon).

C'mon guys, it's good QoL that would just make it easier to get into using these weapons. 

I'm also for them making seperate sentinel weapon mods, but I feel DE might mess up the numbers there. (Also it would take more time)

Only semi valid thing I read against it is that the extra primed mods/other r10 mods people got won't sell because of other people suddenly selling them. Well I'm pretty sure the prices will go back up after a while assuming DE doesnt add better versions of those mods.

 

[--PV--Arc]

5 hours ago, Madway7 said:

Damn this feels very close to how dumb the vaccuum debate was...

Is this thread really from this week? While we have Fortuna? And Moa pets, that use sentinel weapons and have litterally no reason to not have a weapon equiped (yes they get shot at a lot even without a weapon).

C'mon guys, it's good QoL that would just make it easier to get into using these weapons. 

I'm also for them making seperate sentinel weapon mods, but I feel DE might mess up the numbers there. (Also it would take more time)

Only semi valid thing I read against it is that the extra primed mods/other r10 mods people got won't sell because of other people suddenly selling them. Well I'm pretty sure the prices will go back up after a while assuming DE doesnt add better versions of those mods. 

 

Exactly! These idiots here feel like just because DE made it so , it should be so. They go through all kinds of mental gymnastics to justify it. While they completely ignore the how easy it is to have maxed out kubrows , helminths , kavats , etc that do multiple times the damage sentinels do. Having the same weapon mods for sentinels makes no sense. whatsoever.

Edited November 17, 2018 by Arc2199