Shadow-Spawn Posted November 12, 2018 Author Share Posted November 12, 2018 9 minutes ago, CarrotSalad said: I thought AAA studios tend to have around a thousand employees. DE in comparison arent anywhere near the numbers of employees last i heard it was around the 250 mark. Which would make it a mid tier studio at best. The EA AAA title Star Wars MMO "Knights of the Old Republic" - was made by BioWare in Austin - it had 150 devs working on it during development. The team of devs got cut down to a fraction after a too early release. And for the last many years only a handful of devs have been working on pushing out crap for their in-game store where you can buy stuff that you don´t need for outrageous prices for real money. There are still many game breaking bugs in that game 7 years after release because their small handful of devs don't have the skills to fix it anymore. More employees does not equal more good quality games - if those human resources don't have skills needed or are not being allocated in the right way. (EA) In comparison DE has around 250 employees working on Warframe - they break stuff because thats unavoidable in game development - but they listen to their gaming customers - and make their dev team fix it asap. 👍 Its not a hard choice to to make, if you are the gaming customer. I will chose DE over EA forever and ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.SpookSpook Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Post in Off-topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow-Spawn Posted November 12, 2018 Author Share Posted November 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Voltage said: I mean ... so? This is the Warframe Forums. How EA is doing really doesn't matter. DE and EA are competitors in the same gaming industry - EA is a beacon for DE what not to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naqel Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Shadow-Spawn said: One is known for its greedy monetization schemes - the other is not. I'm not really sure you could say that. DE is constantly monetizing things the monetization of which prevents them from making changes without backlash, be it the Mods via Trading, or Operator Suits via Market(which is the only reason we got a return of the ugly-pants nobody likes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)robotwars7 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Shadow-Spawn said: DE and EA are competitors in the same gaming industry - EA is a beacon for DE what not to do. still in the wrong forum. while you might have steered the conversation towards comparisons between DE and EA , your original post has nothing to do with warframe, and only mentions EA. that said, it's true that the only way to get companies like EA to listen to anything is to start attacking their profits. between shareholders insisting that games make drastically more money or else it's a "disappointment" (yeah, 500 million dollars, how disappointing it must be to have ONLY 500 million dollars.) and companies charging more for games via microtransactions and special editions while giving less value for money, it's a matter of when, not if, the industry will crash again, like it did over 20 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helch0rn Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 EA tried to appease to a group of people that doesn't even buy their games and told people critical of their decisions that they are uneducated and should not buy the game if they dislike it. unsurprisingly people decided to vote with their wallet and did not buy the game. they got what they deserve and the only thing I am asking myself is what or who they will blame their failings on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurrrningBoop Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) 14 минут назад, Shadow-Spawn сказал: DE and EA are competitors in the same gaming industry - EA is a beacon for DE what not to do. Not inherently wrong, but . There is a special place on the forums where you post stuff that is not directly connected to Warframe and that place is called "Off topic". Because EA is not related to Warframe in any way, shape or form afaik. Devs do not read GD (are you making us read this then, why, for what purpose?), if you wanted to reach out to them - you made a mistake, better use this link: https://www.digitalextremes.com/contact. Edited November 12, 2018 by PurrrningBoop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow-Spawn Posted November 12, 2018 Author Share Posted November 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Naqel said: I'm not really sure you could say that. DE is constantly monetizing things the monetization of which prevents them from making changes without backlash, be it the Mods via Trading, or Operator Suits via Market(which is the only reason we got a return of the ugly-pants nobody likes). When you buy EA gambling loot-crates you get a chance to win the items you want. Meaning that you most likely will never get them - or you might at best get 3 out of the 5 to make the set you want. Its all RNG based gambling loot-boxes. And why pay 70USD for a single digital cosmetic item in their in-game store. All of this in a 60 USD base priced game or a 15 USD monthly subscription based game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow-Spawn Posted November 12, 2018 Author Share Posted November 12, 2018 41 minutes ago, Mr.SpookSpook said: Post in Off-topic. I have asked a moderator to move it 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubewano Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 27 minutes ago, Naqel said: I'm not really sure you could say that. DE is constantly monetizing things the monetization of which prevents them from making changes without backlash, be it the Mods via Trading, or Operator Suits via Market(which is the only reason we got a return of the ugly-pants nobody likes). Are you saying DE is greedy because their marketing is how it is to avoid backlash? Because I'm not sure that adds up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naqel Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 24 minutes ago, Shadow-Spawn said: Its all RNG based gambling loot-boxes. And why pay 70USD for a single digital cosmetic item in their in-game store. All of this in a 60 USD base priced game or a 15 USD monthly subscription based game. You sure you ain't describing literally every AAA and mobile game in the last 4 years? Not really an EA specific issue. And at least they don't introduce RNG gambling gameplay mechanic they cannot meaningfully alter anymore, because the people who dumped $200+ of currency into getting a perfectly rolled one would be upset... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarBaby2 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Shadow-Spawn said: Exactly - The most precious thing DE has is its good reputation - unfortunately EA has given up trying to restore its own reputation. Well, I guess they still are convinced they don't need one as long as they find the perfect, endless, psych-game "service"... personally, I think they just are out of touch and wasting their money, but hey, that's the free market for ya, not even media shills can help ya at some point. On DE's model of monetization: It's not perfect, but I still think it's brilliant, although it wouldn't work with most games EA is publishing. I mean, seriously, RNG and non tradeable ingame currency are really not working in anything outside of mobile games, but especially not in full price or subscription based games. I dunno who brought up the idea of "games as a service" in that regard, but I guess they are the only ones actually making money of it... Edited November 12, 2018 by WarBaby2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow-Spawn Posted November 12, 2018 Author Share Posted November 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Naqel said: You sure you ain't describing literally every AAA and mobile game in the last 4 years? Not really an EA specific issue. And at least they don't introduce RNG gambling gameplay mechanic they cannot meaningfully alter anymore, because the people who dumped $200+ of currency into getting a perfectly rolled one would be upset... No, I guess EA have had all the time in the world to change their business model - so now its up to the governments to regulate it for them. And EA is just the most greedy, but there are other publishers out there as well with shady monetization. If you paid for a full priced game you should never pay 200 USD to get that perfect item. But with EA you buy the chance to get that item - and you don't really get them - there is less than 1% change of it. And its not 200 USD that players spend on these - its sometime more than 10.000 USD - its just not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarBaby2 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Shadow-Spawn said: No, I guess EA have had all the time in the world to change their business model - so now its up to the governments to regulate it for them. And EA is just the most greedy, but there are other publishers out there as well with shady monetization. If you paid for a full priced game you should never pay 200 USD to get that perfect item. But with EA you buy the chance to get that item - and you don't really get them - there is less than 1% change of it. And its not 200 USD that players spend on these - its sometime more than 10.000 USD - its just not worth it. Meh, government regulation is not really the way to go... ever. I say, let EA and Activision fall publicly and loudly, and other companies will move of this kind of business models all by themself... in time. Edited November 12, 2018 by WarBaby2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow-Spawn Posted November 12, 2018 Author Share Posted November 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, WarBaby2 said: Meh, government regulation is not really the way to go... ever. I say, let EA and Activision fall publicly and loudly, and other companies will move of this kind of business models all by themself... in time. I agree, that government regulation is not the preferred way to go, but sometimes its necessary, if the industry refuses to regulate themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, (XB1)Sioks E7 said: Warframe is far from a AAA game, there’s bugs and glitches everywhere the game has a crap ton of outdates things. None of those have anything to do with the definition of an AAA game, though. Bethesda's games are notoriously buggy and built on outdated tech but they are still most definitely AAA. Edited November 12, 2018 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarBaby2 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Pr1A said: None of those have anything to do with the definition of an AAA game, though. Bethesda's games are notoriously buggy and built on outdated tech but they are still most definitely AAA. Well... until 76. No AAA can be THAT lazy. Ah well, they are the next to fall, I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) 40 minutes ago, WarBaby2 said: Well... until 76. No AAA can be THAT lazy. Ah well, they are the next to fall, I guess... Even worse, they recently announced that they are planning to stick with GameBryo/Creation in TES6 and Starfield. No matter how many times they paint that turd gold, it's still a turd. They should just get rid of that janky piece of s**t already. The mod support is literally the only redeeming quality of the engine. Edited November 12, 2018 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarBaby2 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Pr1A said: Even worse, they recently announced that they are planning to stick with GameBryo/Creation in TES6 and Starfield. No matter how many times they paint that turd gold, it's still a turd. They should just get rid of that janky piece of s**t already. The mod support is literally the only redeeming quality of the engine. Yea, they are a loss... have been for years really, but - for some reason - they attracted such a big community of modders which covered up how lazy and all around bad their games have actually been since, well, Morrowind, I'd say. The moment they realized that, and tried to monetize that "potential", they pretty much were a goner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloan441 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 5 hours ago, WarBaby2 said: That's the thing. EA and Activision spent millions to develop new methods of monetization, while not realizing that all your really need is: A good reputation! This depends what your upper level management looks like. Keep in mind that marketing/sales has a paradigm that states if you can sell one thing, you can sell anything. Games, used cars, encyclopedias, time shares...it's all the same. Of course, it's not, but this is the mentality driving some of the things we're seeing. You see this in other industries beside game development. It only really works when you have a market where the products are mostly indistinguishable from each other, so you have to build brand. If you don't have that situation and you treat it as if you do, then you get things like Blizzcon 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarBaby2 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, Sloan441 said: This depends what your upper level management looks like. Keep in mind that marketing/sales has a paradigm that states if you can sell one thing, you can sell anything. Games, used cars, encyclopedias, time shares...it's all the same. Of course, it's not, but this is the mentality driving some of the things we're seeing. You see this in other industries beside game development. It only really works when you have a market where the products are mostly indistinguishable from each other, so you have to build brand. If you don't have that situation and you treat it as if you do, then you get things like Blizzcon 2018. That's why I've been hoping that the next direction change in western consumer industry will come from the games industry... I mean, it could happen... right? I mean, before it all comes crashing down... 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow-Spawn Posted November 12, 2018 Author Share Posted November 12, 2018 No one is too big to fail - the bigger they are the harder they fall 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloan441 Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 On 2018-11-12 at 11:48 AM, WarBaby2 said: That's why I've been hoping that the next direction change in western consumer industry will come from the games industry... I mean, it could happen... right? I mean, before it all comes crashing down... 😉 Not necessary and not even necessary at all. The issue here is one of misapplication of resources and knowledge. People will be people and you're always going to have this to some degree. As a consumer, however, your only real vote is with your wallet. The internet is also viable for providing feedback, but we all know some get fully unwound here regardless of the situation. People will be people. This might be the best way to sell toasters and vacuum cleaners, but it's not the best way to sell games. At least if those games aren't shovelware--which is largely what mobile games are. Frankly, I think we're all overdue for a video game industry crash. The two big name publishers are both beginning to skate on thin ice and looking an awful lot like GT Interactive back in '97 to '98--just before the wheels came off in '99. Specifically here we're talking about the cluelessness of Activision with the new so-called Blizzard mobile games. This wasn't a decision made by Blizzard; this came down from Activision. Those devs on the stage at Blizzcon didn't do this because they thought it was a good idea. They had to develop and sell something someone else much higher up the corporate ladder decided needed to be done...to make money. This isn't making the best game you can and if it's good enough it'll make money and perhaps a lot of it. Those days ended with Blizzard's acquisition by Activision. The sales and marketing people are driving this to sell you games you don't want. Hence the reaction at Blizzcon 2018. And, no, Acti-Blizz, I don't have a phone... 🖕 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bad4youLT Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 watch how BioWare will closs down after Anthem release , EA always cut of their limbs to save their own life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow-Spawn Posted November 14, 2018 Author Share Posted November 14, 2018 17 hours ago, bad4youLT said: watch how BioWare will closs down after Anthem release , EA always cut of their limbs to save their own life Given the history of EA, that's unfortunate very likely to happen, but EA will be on the chopping-block soon themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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