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Garuda is the best frame out of the gate for Melee Mains


FreeWilliam
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Thanks DE, I'm in love. 

I know there are lots of us and you can't satisfy us all with one frame, but as someone who gets a lot of cathartic joy out of charging into the middle of the biggest, baddest group of mobs and tearing them to bits...she's been a dream come true. 

I hope you're cautious about changes...I like her entire kit and I have a feeling whoever was making her was somebody I'd enjoy playing smashframe with. She's unusually good right out of the gate and I particularly love how all of her abilities are active and she's one of the few 'I'll make this nullie regret having that big bubble letting me know who to give pointy hugs to' frames ... it's nice not having to dodge around them or keep recasting timed abilities and toggles all the time.

I've grinned a lot while playing her, she makes me very happy.

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I really hope DE look at Garuda when it comes to Wukong/Valkyr changes.

Mobility is absolutely key for a melee oriented character, and in a game as fast paced as Warframe it takes a lot to make it shine.

Garuda's ability to leap and dash with reckless abandon is perfect, as is the speed with which she does it. A leap or dash of this nature should be baseline when designing a melee frame.

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3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

 

Garuda's ability to leap and dash with reckless abandon is perfect, as is the speed with which she does it. A leap or dash of this nature should be baseline when designing a melee frame.

Very agreed.  That's part of why I consider Zephyr one of the best melee frames in the game...her kit isn't necessarily built for melee but her ability to get to the next batch of targets without breaking stride was pretty peerless up until we got Garuda. 

Whoever was in charge of her should be in charge of melee frame reworks, I bet when they're done with Wukong he'll be glorious. 

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Just now, FreeWilliam said:

I bet when they're done with Wukong he'll be glorious. 

And if he isn't, they'll darn well hear about it. :wink:

Both Wukong and Valkyr already have #1's that would actually suit being a hard-locked dash, imo.

Valkyr could easily have her Ripline animation sped up a ton, and have it pull her right to the enemy where she performs a high damage attack.

Wukong could dash to the target, pole outstretched to "jab" them.

Given that Garuda then summons a shield and can convert damage into a ball of 'sploding goodness, I reckon there should definitely be some secondary effects but that's for another thread.

My point is, the added mobility alone would be incredible not just for the ability, but the frame as a whole. I can only dream of the day it happens.

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1 hour ago, FreeWilliam said:

I have a feeling whoever was making her was somebody I'd enjoy playing smashframe with. 

Trying asking Pablo because he worked on her.

I normally play her as a ranged fighter (her Abilities works well with that gameplay) and if i'm using her Claws, the leap i get from her 1 and two helps with the short range her Melee Weapon have. Speaking of her Claws, they work well with her 4. I tested her Talons against a lvl 125 Nox while i was in the Simulacrum and Garuda's Claws+4 lets me kill him faster than my 214% Power Strength Valkyr Prime while she's using Hysteria's Slide Attacks while my Garuda have 145% Power Strength. It's not just her Claws that works well with her 4. Weapons like Aklex Prime or Lenz (without Hunter Munitions) can proc Slash with her 4 active. Definitely one of the best Debuff abilities against higher level enemies. 

Her 1 also Synergize with her 4 to kill the enemy that didn't get killed from her 4's Slash Procs, Her 3 works well with her 2 to gain energy back (so Rage/Hunter Adrenaline is not needed) while having her 1 to block the damage in front of her (do wish it protected around her) so you can gain health safely and have more access to her other abilities because of the energy increase of her 2.

I wouldn't say she's perfect either since she got plenty of issues to be fixed like her Passive and using her 1 in the low level while in a Team but so far, she became my favorite Frame. This is also coming from someone who mained Valkyr Prime for a very long time.

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45 minutes ago, VPrime96 said:

I just learned something after bringing Garuda to Mot in a Squad. Blood Alter heals Nekros Shadows Of The Dead and i'm not sure if that suppose to happen but she can be compatitable with him with her 2.

Don't tell anyone but it heals your Operator as well.

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You  can easily replace Garuda's ability to leap onto enemies with Dread Mirror by just using Parkour with any other frame. I don't really think she's anything to write home about in terms of melee. I mean she has no abilities which augment her melee damage. And her self sustainability is easily replace with one or two mods on any other frame, ie Life Strike and Rage.

Edited by MudShadow
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1 minute ago, MudShadow said:

You  can easily replace Garuda's ability to leap onto enemies with Dread Mirror by just using Parkour with any other frame.

Errrr, what? Her leaps reach far further than parkour does, and is near instantaneous to perform.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIaZNo_a0Uo

Just watch the first kill, are you telling me that parkour is even remotely comparable to that?

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even if her 1 and 2 give her some amazing gap closers, you can't ignore the problems she has. why have a fun melee frame with half of its abilities not working when you can have amazing melee frame with a fully-working kit?

her passive is... basically non existent. you can't run with 2 HP and Quick Thinking, that simply won't work: while at 2 HP you can't gain energy from Rage or Hunter Adrenaline, you don't have enough HP to use her 3 to gain more and in high level missions the enemies will hit you so hard your energy will be gone before you can even cast her 2 to heal.
now if you try to cast her 2 beforehand, that won't work either because the healing will be strong enough to keep you at high health and you won't enjoy her passive at all!
even if you try to use her 3 right after 2 that won't help either because, again, her healing is too strong to actually put her passive to good use.

as for her 1, sure, the leap is amazing! you heroically jumped into a group of enemies! now what? she got no damage mitigation whats so ever!!
yeah, her 1 gives her a shield, that good and all, but it protects her from only one direction while now, after leaping into the group, you are surrounded from all directions! 
even if you jump into a group of enemies and immidiatly cast her 2 to heal, that not gonna save you in high levels where enemies are so strong that can hit you from any direction the shield isn't blocking and still kill you! not to mention her 2 forces her to stay in place to actually enjoy the healing...

from my play-tests in Mot with a fine build with range, strength and survivability, I still found my self so bussy micromanaging her 1 and 2 to keep my self alive I didn't have time at all to actually use my weapons and kill things properly! 

 

yes, she is a fun melee frame, but shes far from good enough, she got huge potential but needs some buffs/changes

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11 minutes ago, koryfunny said:

as for her 1, sure, the leap is amazing! you heroically jumped into a group of enemies! now what? she got no damage mitigation whats so ever!!

I've never played her without Healing Return and she makes me want to melee with her and haven't had to struggle or micromanage, perhaps that's the difference?

13 minutes ago, koryfunny said:

her passive is... basically non existent. you can't run with 2 HP and Quick Thinking, that simply won't work: while at 2 HP you can't gain energy from Rage or Hunter Adrenaline, you don't have enough HP to use her 3 to gain more and in high level missions the enemies will hit you so hard your energy will be gone before you can even cast her 2 to heal.

She's basically made for quick thinking, but I honestly don't use her 2 to heal MYSELF, I use her 2 to heal everything but myself (pets, other people's pets, other people, etc.).  I still use all the other healing tricks for me.

I basically play her like I play my Atlas, using QT+HA/Rage to create two separate health pools and focusing on keeping above 2 (which is effectively unlimited EHP if you put in both HA and Rage and keep above 2 hp by the way...that's just how it maths out, but if you're generating a lot of health via Healing Return then you don't need both).  Pain Threshold is a big boost and pretty mandatory against extremely high level mobs, and she needs Handspring.  Other than that it's 3 to reduce HP for the damage boost (I usually have plenty of energy, but the 3 means you're less dependent on Rage/HA for energy, especially if using Adaptation)

She also works insanely well as a channeler (Enduring Affliction + Life Strike + slash or toxin = everything you touch becomes an eternal healbot for you, keeping the QT/HA loop going nicely.  Points to Xandypants for pointing out the Life Strike/DOT bit, I was more a healing return guy but I dig that synergy), but that'll obviously change in Melee 3.0.  Until then she's only vulnerable to one-shots 

So basically the way I play her is...

1) Used to get to the next target and begin the slaughter/self healing, also to blast things at range that you've already weakened with your 4 and don't want to bother jumping to

2) Used to make little healtotems for other people and your pets, they also heal you but it shouldn't ever be a primary source of healing.

3) Used to drop your health for the buff and to generate energy when nobody's getting through your shields (With Atlas I always run with a dragon key, with her I don't feel the need)

4) Used to make everything really fragile for other people and get rid of chaff so you can easily find the non-bubbly Eximus or Nox in the crowd (You don't need it for yourself if you're a proper melee monster, right?)

Right now I'm alternating between a Heavy Blade Zaw with Tempo Royale and Exodia Hunt and a Staff Zaw with Clashing Forest ... both are working just fine, I'll probably start using her claws more once Tek Gravity starts working. 

I can see it being harder if you're counting on juggling her 2 and 3 for your own survivability, I don't even touch her 2 or 4 when I solo, they're mostly to support the team IMHO. 

 

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I really like the frame, but she's not good for melee.

  • Her 1 should at least knockdown enemies around your target so you don't get punched right after you come out of the ability animation.
  • Her 2 literally keeps you from meleeing enemies, since it only heals you in a certain radius. It decreases your mobility greatly. Other tankier frames can just run around and do whatever, but Garuda is pretty much glued to her 2 zone if you want to get heals out of it.
  • And since her 4 needs charging and only affects enemies in a "cone", you're even slower compared to the rest of frames and need to position yourself properly to make good use of it
  • Her passive is, meh. It doesn't work for melee. You can have 2 HP and stand in a corner with a shield up, but it's simply suicide to jump into a crowd of enemies with such low amount of health. I'm not even talking about toxin and slash procs.

Garuda is really fun for me and I like her abilities, but as of now she is simply too slow and squishy to compete with frames like Nezha, Gara, Inaros or Nidus. They are simply easier to use and possess higher KPS due to that. While you charge your 4 they will just roflcopter to enemies and bleed them. While you knockdown 1 enemy with your 1 and teleport to them all of the other frames will kill or CC multiple enemies in a large area. All of said frames can also easily self-sustain their energy and HP, and might not even need it in the first place due to how fast and easily they deal with threats and how tanky they are. 

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9 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

I've never played her without Healing Return and she makes me want to melee with her and haven't had to struggle or micromanage, perhaps that's the difference?

She's basically made for quick thinking, but I honestly don't use her 2 to heal MYSELF, I use her 2 to heal everything but myself (pets, other people's pets, other people, etc.).  I still use all the other healing tricks for me.

I basically play her like I play my Atlas, using QT+HA/Rage to create two separate health pools and focusing on keeping above 2 (which is effectively unlimited EHP if you put in both HA and Rage and keep above 2 hp by the way...that's just how it maths out, but if you're generating a lot of health via Healing Return then you don't need both).  Pain Threshold is a big boost and pretty mandatory against extremely high level mobs, and she needs Handspring.  Other than that it's 3 to reduce HP for the damage boost (I usually have plenty of energy, but the 3 means you're less dependent on Rage/HA for energy, especially if using Adaptation)

She also works insanely well as a channeler (Enduring Affliction + Life Strike + slash or toxin = everything you touch becomes an eternal healbot for you, keeping the QT/HA loop going nicely.  Points to Xandypants for pointing out the Life Strike/DOT bit, I was more a healing return guy but I dig that synergy), but that'll obviously change in Melee 3.0.  Until then she's only vulnerable to one-shots 

So basically the way I play her is...

1) Used to get to the next target and begin the slaughter/self healing, also to blast things at range that you've already weakened with your 4 and don't want to bother jumping to

2) Used to make little healtotems for other people and your pets, they also heal you but it shouldn't ever be a primary source of healing.

3) Used to drop your health for the buff and to generate energy when nobody's getting through your shields (With Atlas I always run with a dragon key, with her I don't feel the need)

4) Used to make everything really fragile for other people and get rid of chaff so you can easily find the non-bubbly Eximus or Nox in the crowd (You don't need it for yourself if you're a proper melee monster, right?)

Right now I'm alternating between a Heavy Blade Zaw with Tempo Royale and Exodia Hunt and a Staff Zaw with Clashing Forest ... both are working just fine, I'll probably start using her claws more once Tek Gravity starts working. 

I can see it being harder if you're counting on juggling her 2 and 3 for your own survivability, I don't even touch her 2 or 4 when I solo, they're mostly to support the team IMHO. 

 


but then again, you ignore certain mechanics of her kit:

while channeling her 4 shes open for attacks aside from the shield direction - and you can't always position your self properly, especially in missions like Mot where enemies spawn from every direction.

and as for her 1, it consumes ALOT of energy while channeiling to increase the damage. sure you can shoot it without channeling, but it might take time to gather enough damage and might not be high enough... also it destroys your shield uppon fire.

as for using a scythe zaw - I agree it is good, I have one specially crafted for my Saryn which I can use, but that makes Garuda's claws pointless, and that a shame cus I like them...

and of course you can't really use guns cus you're bussy slashing with melee to keep yourself alive... if only her signature crossbow had built-in life leech of sort.........

anyway I'll give a try to your suggested build but I still think Garuda could use some tweaks to make her kit more reliable.

Edited by koryfunny
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2 minutes ago, koryfunny said:

while channeling her 4 shes open for attacks aside from the shield direction - and you can't always position your self properly, especially in missions like Mot where enemies spawn from every direction.

and as for her 1, it consumes ALOT of energy while channeiling to increase the damage. sure you can shoot it without channeling, but it might take time to gather enough damage and might not be high enough... also it destroys your shield uppon fire.

Hence Healing Return, with Knockdown and (if necessary) Stagger resistance to keep from being unable to hit people to keep your health above '2'

The shield helps against snipers and is there if you want to back up and pull out a gun and start shooting things, no need to lean it on it while you're meleeing.

Like I said, the 4 is more for group support so not something I'd use while in the middle of the action unless I'm not worried about dying while casting it.  It's ALSO useful if you're just standing back and not charging into the fray (4 to tag things and then shoot them), but I don't think it's her niche.

6 minutes ago, koryfunny said:

as for using a scythe zaw - I agree it is good, I have one specially crafted for my Saryn which I can use, but that makes Garuda's claws pointless, and that a shame cus I like them...

I'm a stance elitist and don't use scythes much (Heavy Blades, Staves, S&S, and Sparring are my favs for Tempo Royale, Clashing Forest, Final Harbinger, and Brutal Tide specifically), but with Melee 3.0 that may change...I'm hoping Scythes eventually get similarly fun.  They deserve a boost! (Also... poor warfans!)

8 minutes ago, koryfunny said:

and of course you can't really use guns cus you're bussy slashing with melee to keep yourself alive... if only her signature crossbow had built-in life leech of sort.........

She's not much of a gun frame, that was implied in my title.  I mean, ANY frame can shoot or melee, I just think she really shines in the thick of the action and since melee is all about mobility ... she's kind of a goddess there 🙂

9 minutes ago, koryfunny said:

anyway I'll give a try to your suggested build but I still think Garuda could use some tweaks to make her kit more reliable.

I'll post one when I get home.  It's not the ONLY way to build her, but she's working really well with it and is really only vulnerable to snipers right now.  The channeling trick with Life Strike and Enduring Affliction is honestly overkill unless you're planning on spending a lot of time fighting level 300+ mobs, but if you go that route you can skimp a bit on the knockdown/stagger resistance...the one flaw with the Healing Return approach is you can die if you stop attacking (her 2 helps with that now that I think about it, so when rezzing you'd want to make a totem before rezzing someone)

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56 minutes ago, koryfunny said:

from my play-tests in Mot with a fine build with range, strength and survivability, I still found my self so bussy micromanaging her 1 and 2 to keep my self alive I didn't have time at all to actually use my weapons and kill things properly! 

Strange, when I ran Mot with her the only thing I found to be a detriment was that I was having so much fun that I stopped paying attention to the life support, which subsequently ran out. :tongue:

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5 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Strange, when I ran Mot with her the only thing I found to be a detriment was that I was having so much fun that I stopped paying attention to the life support, which subsequently ran out. :tongue:

She is stupid fun when you're in 'RAWR!!!!' mode 🙂

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4 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Strange, when I ran Mot with her the only thing I found to be a detriment was that I was having so much fun that I stopped paying attention to the life support, which subsequently ran out. :tongue:

that the problem, life supports run out cus she can't kill fast enough! that doesn't happen to me with Saryn or Valkyr, I don't even need to activate life supports... 

 

6 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

 

I'm a stance elitist and don't use scythes much (Heavy Blades, Staves, S&S, and Sparring are my favs for Tempo Royale, Clashing Forest, Final Harbinger, and Brutal Tide specifically), but with Melee 3.0 that may change...I'm hoping Scythes eventually get similarly fun.  They deserve a boost! (Also... poor warfans!)

 

when I said scythe zaw, I meant 2h-heavy blade scythe zaw with Tempo Royale

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1 minute ago, CodeUltimate said:

She needs a "Blood armor" instead of her shield Kinda like a vampire lol. What she lacks is tankiness and faster casting speed if they give her those factors she can easily be meta.

I definitely agree, I'll trade that 100% damage reduction 1-direction shield for a 90% damage reduction or even 70% damage reduction all-direction armor/aura any time!

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5 minutes ago, koryfunny said:

that the problem, life supports run out cus she can't kill fast enough! that doesn't happen to me with Saryn or Valkyr, I don't even need to activate life supports... 

 

I don't personally consider having to occasionally use a capsule a "problem", the only problem was my lack of awareness. :tongue:

I mean, that's what they're there for. Using them is fine. This isn't some "anything less than perfect is a problem" type deal.

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