Garuda is the best frame out of the gate for Melee Mains

[Fiewel]

Can someone post a video of Garuda in a C wave (or similar) of an corpus arbitration not camping, just doing her thing by running around? Thanks. Im aware this might take some days.

[Holonomic88]

I'm surprised to hear anyone say she is a good melee frame just because she has a lunge.  I realize mobility is helpful, but she has no abilities that directly buff anything melee so 'melee' frame is apparently a really low bar to clear.  I think she still needs quite a bit of work, but she is off to an interesting start.

Considering how her 1,3 and 4 work, I'd argue that she is very much not a melee frame, that said, of course any frame can whip out a melee weapon for a good time.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Holonomic88

[Brokenspeed]

15 minutes ago, Fiewel said:

Can someone post a video of Garuda in a C wave (or similar) of an corpus arbitration not camping, just doing her thing by running around? Thanks. Im aware this might take some days.

Just grab a fiber, adaptation, and  vitality. Completed round C no problem. Roflcopter build with an occasional life strike here and there. Her base stats make her tanky enough to handle it, the pillars are nice to trap pesky enemies like no and lock them out of combat. Survivability isn't really an issue with the right set up. Casted 1 here and there once in a while. Definitely no time to cast 4. 3 + lifestrike is fantastic. Toss in QT if you think you need more survivability. 

 

Compared to other frames she is definitely missing that oh s#$# button

Edited November 13, 2018 by Brokenspeed
Last sentence

[FreeWilliam]

6 minutes ago, Holonomic88 said:

I'm surprised to hear anyone say she is a good melee frame just because she has a lunge.  I realize mobility is helpful, but she has no abilities that directly buff anything melee so 'melee' frame is apparently a really low bar to clear.  I think she still needs quite a bit of work, but she is off to an interesting start.

Considering how her 1,3 and 4 work, I'd argue that she is very much not a melee frame, that said, of course any frame can whip out a melee weapon for a good time.

As a melee main, a good lunge really is enough to make the difference.  Melee in this game is 90% mobility, any decent melee player can mod to survive and kill anything in the game.

Her 3 is also great for a number of reasons, especially for those of us who use Quick Thinking regularly as it makes it easy to keep the energy topped off.

Her 4 and 1 together mean you don't have to keep switching to a ranged weapon to pick off stragglers and can keep your melee weapon equipped.

Her lack of abilities that require us to watch timers or toggles mean we can enjoy charging into the fray without worrying about timers and nullifiers, which is a big issue for frames like Chroma, Rhino, Nezha, and so on. 

Her 2 could use work IMHO, but I just use it as a little heal turret for everyone else.  Her 4 I also mostly use for the team. 

So yeah, she's an amazing melee frame.  She'd be a top-notch melee frame with JUST the lunge to be honest, it really is that important, but I dig her whole kit and I'm not the only melee main who's giggling and grinning while playing her. 

It's not like we don't know how to play the game, she caters to a specific style very, very well.

[Fiewel]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Brokenspeed:

Just grab a fiber, adaptation, and  vitality. Completed round C no problem. Roflcopter build with an occasional life strike here and there. Her base stats make her tanky enough to handle it, the pillars are nice to trap pesky enemies like no and lock them out of combat. Survivability isn't really an issue with the right set up. Casted 1 here and there once in a while. Definitely no time to cast 4. 3 + lifestrike is fantastic. Toss in QT if you think you need more survivability. 

 

Compared to other frames she is definitely missing that oh s#$# button

Here is a Mot video of Garuda versus lv 115 corpus. Not only  melee though, which is basically the smarter choice I guess.

Just post your one, as people with roflcopter builds make me doubt.

[Holonomic88]

5 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

As a melee main, a good lunge really is enough to make the difference.  Melee in this game is 90% mobility, any decent melee player can mod to survive and kill anything in the game.

Her 3 is also great for a number of reasons, especially for those of us who use Quick Thinking regularly as it makes it easy to keep the energy topped off.

Her 4 and 1 together mean you don't have to keep switching to a ranged weapon to pick off stragglers and can keep your melee weapon equipped.

Her lack of abilities that require us to watch timers or toggles mean we can enjoy charging into the fray without worrying about timers and nullifiers, which is a big issue for frames like Chroma, Rhino, Nezha, and so on. 

Her 2 could use work IMHO, but I just use it as a little heal turret for everyone else.  Her 4 I also mostly use for the team. 

So yeah, she's an amazing melee frame.  She'd be a top-notch melee frame with JUST the lunge to be honest, it really is that important, but I dig her whole kit and I'm not the only melee main who's giggling and grinning while playing her. 

It's not like we don't know how to play the game, she caters to a specific style very, very well.

That's all well and good, but compared to Valkyr, Volt, Atlas, or Nezha, her mobility is nothing special, and all the frames I mentioned bring more useful abilities to the table along with comparable mobility.  Her lunge animation on her 1 and 2 is also longer than I'd like, certainly not as smooth as Atlas'.  If you like her good and have fun I'm just saying her mechanics make her a poor melee frame overall.

[koryfunny]

11 minutes ago, Fiewel said:

Here is a Mot video of Garuda versus lv 115 corpus. Not only  melee though, which is basically the smarter choice I guess.

Just post your one, as people with roflcopter builds make me doubt.

would have been much appreciated if the video would also show the build 

[Fiewel]

Zitat

would have been much appreciated if the video would also show the build 

5:47. I would suggest you just watch the whole video, its not that long. 

[koryfunny]

26 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

As a melee main, a good lunge really is enough to make the difference.  Melee in this game is 90% mobility, any decent melee player can mod to survive and kill anything in the game.

Her 3 is also great for a number of reasons, especially for those of us who use Quick Thinking regularly as it makes it easy to keep the energy topped off.

Her 4 and 1 together mean you don't have to keep switching to a ranged weapon to pick off stragglers and can keep your melee weapon equipped.

Her lack of abilities that require us to watch timers or toggles mean we can enjoy charging into the fray without worrying about timers and nullifiers, which is a big issue for frames like Chroma, Rhino, Nezha, and so on. 

Her 2 could use work IMHO, but I just use it as a little heal turret for everyone else.  Her 4 I also mostly use for the team. 

So yeah, she's an amazing melee frame.  She'd be a top-notch melee frame with JUST the lunge to be honest, it really is that important, but I dig her whole kit and I'm not the only melee main who's giggling and grinning while playing her. 

It's not like we don't know how to play the game, she caters to a specific style very, very well.

 I personally like melee too, but you can't ALWAYS go 100% melee.

anyway, I tried your suggestion and it did prove useful in Mot, been there (with group) for 35 minutes and easily dealy with level 60+ enemies.
I did fall twice, but because of me trying to see how much I can hold without channeling life strike, the answer is you can't, enemies can drain your energy and 1~2 shots.

and that, btw, opens another problem: you must use life strike at all time to survive, so you can't - yet again- use her passive optimally. sure you can use her two times in a row, drop to 2 hp and gain 100% damage, but that damage buff will last for only your next one~two strikes because you must heal...

[koryfunny]

9 minutes ago, Fiewel said:

5:47. I would suggest you just watch the whole video, its not that long. 

yes I should,  but the slow / speed effects make it abit annoying to watch everything xD

and also, I think strength or range is better then duration:
strength empowers her healing and increase her 4's bleed chance.
range increases her 2 healing radius (allowing more freedom to move around) and increase her 1 and 2 leap range and her 4 range (which in turn also reduces the time required to hit the range you want)

Edited November 13, 2018 by koryfunny

[FreeWilliam]

13 minutes ago, Holonomic88 said:

That's all well and good, but compared to Valkyr, Volt, Atlas, or Nezha, her mobility is nothing special, and all the frames I mentioned bring more useful abilities to the table along with comparable mobility.

Zephyr brings similarly valuable mobility.

Nezha and Volt most definitely don't.  Does anyone actually sprint when meleeing?  Attack speed bonuses help with mobile melee stances (and I am, indeed, a fan), but they don't compare to a good dart.

Atlas and Valkyr have great darts, but Atlas' is a shorter range (I'm an Atlas main, so he's my boy and I WISH he could move like Garuda), Valkyr would be ahead of Atlas and and comparable with Zephyr (top notch combat AND out of combat mobility) if we had a toggle or other ability to prevent her from grabbing mobs instead of charging us into the fray. 

As for useful abilities.  Atlas is better than Garuda for 'worst case scenarios' (nullifier parties, etc.) due to his passive. Valkyr is a proper beast and definitely top-tier (I love her, especially 'Shouty Hugs' rather than Warcry), Volt and Nezha are more well rounded frames that bring more support to the table IMHO but they suffer more than the others from energy drains meaning you have to focus less on melee.

Garuda's up-to-70m+ dart into a crowd of enemies definitely is something special.  If your playstyle doesn't exploit that then that's fine, but I did specify melee mains and I'm the sort that groans when I have to wait for the swap animation to complete.  I wouldn't mind her being even BETTER, but she's already stealing playtime from my boy, she's a good beast.

[FreeWilliam]

8 minutes ago, koryfunny said:

I personally like melee too, but you can't ALWAYS go 100% melee.

I can!  I often run with JUST a melee weapon just for kicks, and it takes a couple of hours for my better builds to die.  That being said without a lot of mobility it's pretty tough.

8 minutes ago, koryfunny said:

anyway, I tried your suggestion and it did prove useful in Mot, been there (with group) for 35 minutes and easily dealy with level 60+ enemies.
I did fall twice, but because of me trying to see how much I can hold without channeling life strike, the answer is you can't, enemies can drain your energy and 1~2 shots.

and that, btw, opens another problem: you must use life strike at all time to survive, so you can't - yet again- use her passive optimally. sure you can use her two times in a row, drop to 2 hp and gain 100% damage, but that damage buff will last for only your next one~two strikes because you must heal...

Healing Return is MUCH easier to use than Life Strike for this sort of thing.  Remember you only need to be above 2, and it heals the moment you hit something with a status effect (and per status effect) rather than when you proc status.

When I do the Enduring Affliction/Life Strike thing I build for it specifically and use an unranked life strike.  It's a niche build and with Garuda's 2 I don't think it's necessary (I'm thinking about when I generally die, which is rezzing.  I think just '2' ing before rezzing is enough with the full QT/HA loop, but I haven't experimented properly there)

I'd ditch the life strike and swap for healing return, you're charging into the fray anyway!

Edited November 13, 2018 by FreeWilliam

[koryfunny]

what more important... stagger resistence or knockdown resistence? 
That when carrying heavy blade, of course.

also I think I'd prefer healing return over life-strike, because life strike with enduring affliction consume mod slot for so much needed extra damage.

Edited November 13, 2018 by koryfunny

[Fiewel]

Knockdown resistance is more important. If you get a knockdown seconds later you are dead or staggering 😉

Stagger means in most of the cases you survived a deadly situation with quickthinking and without qthinking you would be dead anyway.

[koryfunny]

also, at the video, can you explain what the hell he did with his operator at 3.44?

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, koryfunny said:

also, at the video, can you explain what the hell he did with his operator at 3.44?

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Magus_Elevate

[koryfunny]

I see, little point in it if using melee to heal

[FreeWilliam]

18 minutes ago, Fiewel said:

Knockdown resistance is more important. If you get a knockdown seconds later you are dead or staggering 😉

Stagger means in most of the cases you survived a deadly situation with quickthinking and without qthinking you would be dead anyway.

Yeah, I prioritize knockdown before stagger too, especially with healing return.  If your melee weapon is fast enough then you're generally close enough to something to get a whack in to get that health above '2' and get the cycle going again (probably should've emphasized that I always ramp up attack speed like crazy, procs are life and I don't prioritize damage...you don't run out of ammo in melee).

I try to get both in my builds when dealing with higher level enemies...but if I'm not Atlas or Valkyr then knockdown is definitely the priority.  Other than rezzing, the next cause of death is 'on your butt/helpless' if you're combining QT with a constant stream of health when meleeing.

Edit: I usually find Handspring better than Sure Footed, it's quick enough that if you're mashing the E you're usually okay, but I don't have Primed Sure Footed to test with...I think I should experiment more before making an assumption there.  This is part of why I'm an Atlas main, he only gets knocked down once, and then if I'm bouncing around having fun.

Edited November 13, 2018 by FreeWilliam

[koryfunny]

1 minute ago, FreeWilliam said:

Yeah, I prioritize knockdown before stagger too, especially with healing return.  If your melee weapon is fast enough then you're generally close enough to something to get a whack in to get that health above '2' and get the cycle going again (probably should've emphasized that I always ramp up attack speed like crazy, procs are life and I don't prioritize damage...you don't run out of ammo in melee).

I try to get both in my builds when dealing with higher level enemies...but if I'm not Atlas or Valkyr then knockdown is definitely the priority.  Other than rezzing, the next cause of death is 'on your butt/helpless' if you're combining QT with a constant stream of health when meleeing.

zaw with fury and berserker, got 1.52 attack speed before berserker applies and I don't have primed fury yet mind you...

its so fast it gets out of control sometimes with tempo royale slams

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

On 2018-11-12 at 12:49 PM, DeMonkey said:

I really hope DE look at Garuda when it comes to Wukong/Valkyr changes.

Mobility is absolutely key for a melee oriented character, and in a game as fast paced as Warframe it takes a lot to make it shine.

Garuda's ability to leap and dash with reckless abandon is perfect, as is the speed with which she does it. A leap or dash of this nature should be baseline when designing a melee frame.

it certainly is a big game changer for closing onto a target group fast 

exalted blade and iron staff do have lunging stance combos but not very effective as this 

[Redfeather75]

I maxed range today and flew across a camp in eidolon to impale an enemy on a dropship in the sky. It was awesome. Now I just got to figure out how to keep that range without destroying my strength.

[Toran]

I disagree, I still prefer Ash (max duration and Seeking Shuriken), Khora or Valkyr for melee.

The charge time on Seeking Talons for max range (the thing that qualifies Garuda as badass) is just too cumbersome for your general game content (including Sorties and Elite Onslaught 1-8).

What you feel for Garuda now is but the joy of novelty... it will fade.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Toran

[Holonomic88]

3 hours ago, Toran said:

I disagree, I still prefer Ash (max duration and Seeking Shuriken), Khora or Valkyr for melee.

The charge time on Seeking Talons for max range (the thing that qualifies Garuda as badass) is just too cumbersome for your general game content (including Sorties and Elite Onslaught 1-8).

What you feel for Garuda now is but the joy of novelty... it will fade.

This exactly

[catalyst22]

18 hours ago, Holonomic88 said:

I'm surprised to hear anyone say she is a good melee frame just because she has a lunge.  I realize mobility is helpful, but she has no abilities that directly buff anything melee so 'melee' frame is apparently a really low bar to clear.  I think she still needs quite a bit of work, but she is off to an interesting start

I see her more as caster/sniper frame... i guess it depends mostly on what lvl you're facing. If you go low enough the 2 criteria a melee frame has to fulfill are 1. Have a gap closer 2. Have abilities that aren't good enough to kill enemies before your gap closer reaches them.

4 hours ago, Toran said:

I disagree, I still prefer Ash (max duration and Seeking Shuriken), Khora or Valkyr for melee.

I mean Ash just does what he describes but a 100* better so that's not really fair....

btw: 

I've found 2 things that work:

1.

Duration + Strength + 1 + 4 + Long range weapon

2.

Growing Power - Enemy Sense

Hunter Adrenaline - Primed Flow - Quick Thinking - Adaptation/(Umbral) Fiber/Rage/(Umbral) Vitality/Pain Threshold/Stretch

Streamline - Transient Fortitude - Natural Talent - Umbral Intensify

Miter + Random Secondary

Pop Nullifiers spam 141  (44 or 1411 as applicable) 

The shield 2 and 3 all serve as defensive tools

 

Overall the 1 +4 combo takes too much time (you end barely doing anything else) and the shield just doesn't cut it.

I suggest:

a larger shield + more range on 2 + automatically consuming a 2 to prevent death

pressing 4 during the 1 lunge detonating the ball + press 4 to start channeling 4 without any movement or weapon restrictions, press 4 again for the actual use and animation

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by catalyst22

[Ragnarok160]

Tbh she is decent defense wise as a melee frame but overall i think she is the weakest