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Why Bastille Shouldn't Have Been Nerfed


BlackVortex
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a clanmate brought this up, I think it was worth posting.

 

the snowglobe of the frost isn't 100% impregnable

there are grineer napalm units and railgun moa's who can penetrate it

 

would it have been too hard to introduce an enemy which could counter bastille?

you only really need it for infested since the rest of the factions have ranged enemies

 

I already know what I'm going to do about the new nerf:

use 2-3 bastilles or take one more vauban in the party to cast multiple

 

this nerf did nothing but make us spawn a few more bastilles

good job xD

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a clanmate brought this up, I think it was worth posting.

 

the snowglobe of the frost isn't 100% impregnable

there are grineer napalm units and railgun moa's who can penetrate it

 

would it have been too hard to introduce an enemy which could counter bastille?

you only really need it for infested since the rest of the factions have ranged enemies

 

I already know what I'm going to do about the new nerf:

use 2-3 bastilles or take one more vauban in the party to cast multiple

 

this nerf did nothing but make us spawn a few more bastilles

good job xD

 bastille doesnt work on flying enemies, which at high levels are really deadly

Edited by AntrosDetod
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Bastille's balance was needed.

 

It was too easy pressing 3 to float the entire room.

 

Now you press three and float 12.

 

And as you kill each of those prisoners, another takes its place.

 

I can hardly noticed the change...

 

if you cant feel the change, then what was the point of nerfing it to begin with?

 

bast wasnt even that OP, it was mostly useful against infestation (like the op said).  Sigh, im tired of arguing about these topics, i have no right to tell DE that they are doing their job wrong or right, all i could say is that i was a little disappointing with this move.

Edited by Ventias
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if you cant feel the change, then what was the point of nerfing it to begin with?

 

bast wasnt even that OP, it was mostly useful against infestation (like the op said).  Sigh, im tired of arguing about these topics, i have no right to tell DE that they are doing there job wrong or right, all i could say is that i was a little disappointing with this move.

 

Let me re-phrase...

 

The change is apparent, but it makes little difference IF you're not just sleepwalking through a level.

 

Now you have to use a *little* bit of focus, not just press 3 and casually shoot in the general direction of floating stuff. You have to actually prioritise shots a little, take out the ittle floating guys so the big guys get caught, for example.

 

It's a GOOD change, it's preventing lazy gameplay and promoting more involved gameplay.

 

This is a step in the RIGHT direction.

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Let me re-phrase...

 

The change is apparent, but it makes little difference IF you're not just sleepwalking through a level.

 

Now you have to use a *little* bit of focus, not just press 3 and casually shoot in the general direction of floating stuff. You have to actually prioritise shots a little, take out the ittle floating guys so the big guys get caught, for example.

 

It's a GOOD change, it's preventing lazy gameplay and promoting more involved gameplay.

 

This is a step in the RIGHT direction.

Agreed. Before, it was as simple as:

 

Vauban player joins.

Vauban casts Bastille.

I go make dinner for 20 minutes while he takes care of everything.

 

Not having that problem nearly as much now.

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You have to realize that this game is constantly changing. For example, in U10 (which will be this month) There will be a complete armor rework and elemental rework added. If done right, this could mean that bastille could be perfectly okay the way it is.

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Let me re-phrase...

 

The change is apparent, but it makes little difference IF you're not just sleepwalking through a level.

 

Now you have to use a *little* bit of focus, not just press 3 and casually shoot in the general direction of floating stuff. You have to actually prioritise shots a little, take out the ittle floating guys so the big guys get caught, for example.

 

It's a GOOD change, it's preventing lazy gameplay and promoting more involved gameplay.

 

This is a step in the RIGHT direction.

 

yes, now instead of pressing 3, I have to press it 3 times!

omg the focus increase!!!!!

 

as I mentioned before they should introduce bastille penetrating enemies for infested instead

guess this "solution" was easier

 

and it doesn't solve the problem you adressed

Edited by BlackVortex
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a clanmate brought this up, I think it was worth posting.

 

the snowglobe of the frost isn't 100% impregnable

there are grineer napalm units and railgun moa's who can penetrate it

 

would it have been too hard to introduce an enemy which could counter bastille?

you only really need it for infested since the rest of the factions have ranged enemies

 

I already know what I'm going to do about the new nerf:

use 2-3 bastilles or take one more vauban in the party to cast multiple

 

this nerf did nothing but make us spawn a few more bastilles

good job xD

if anything it made vortex moreviable.

 cast  vortext after bastille. problem solved.

 

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yes, now instead of pressing 3, I have to press it 3 times!

omg the focus increase!!!!!

If you seriously need to trap 36 guys at once, you're doing something wrong. Just cast it once, and start clearing as many light units as you can to make room for the tougher enemies to get captured.

 

Bastille is meant to be used as something to make a little breathing room by temporarily removing twelve enemies at a time, not something to trap each and every single enemy in the room with.

 

Seriously, just keep clearing out the stasis-captives and you're essentially having "an infinite cap".

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I think this nerf makes it so the squad needs to be constantly active. Before, you could just throw a single Bastille with Consti. + Continuity, wait for all those infested to come, then launch a MPrime to wipe the entire swarm. Now, you need to stay on your toes, and keep on nuking these bastards if you don't want them to go through your net.

 

Maybe, just maybe the numbers could be higher than 12, but the nerf will not hurt that much. It actually gives me a reason to use my huge energy pool (and if you have a Trinity keeping an EV enemy around, you'll keep on having energy as well, unless Dethcubes and Wyrms kill it too fast).

Edited by Casardis
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If you seriously need to trap 36 guys at once, you're doing something wrong. Just cast it once, and start clearing as many light units as you can to make room for the tougher enemies to get captured.

 

Bastille is meant to be used as something to make a little breathing room by temporarily removing twelve enemies at a time, not something to trap each and every single enemy in the room with.

 

Seriously, just keep clearing out the stasis-captives and you're essentially having "an infinite cap".

 

with the ogris on lower waves it doesnt matter at all because one shot kills most of the enemies anyway, but on higher waves lets say xini wave 50+

the ammount of ancients will start to become a problem for 1 bastille and you cannot just kill level 200+ ancients with just one or two shots so using mutliple bastilles(after the latest patch) will become very usefull

 

other than that I was merely pointing out that the idea of the cap really doesnt hurt the laziest players like myself

like I said I just cast 3 of them if I wanted to even on lower waves and the cap problem is pretty much solved

and if 3 wouldnt be enough we would just take an additional vauban (most of my clanmates have all of the warframes so no problem for us)

 

I still think it's better to introduce a new type of enemy or adjust an enemy so that bastille could be countered in a way

nerfing things will always leave a bitter taste with a large portion of the players (especially those that build their vaubans for bastille in terms of forma's and possible reactor)

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yes, now instead of pressing 3, I have to press it 3 times!

omg the focus increase!!!!!

 

as I mentioned before they should introduce bastille penetrating enemies for infested instead

guess this "solution" was easier

 

and it doesn't solve the problem you adressed

Read what I wrote, didn't mention pressing 3 more than once. You don't need to. At all.

Change was good.

PS - exploitation of xini was never intended, this is more in line with how the game was MEANT to be. Stop thinking that because Bastille can't make high end XIni easy mode the change is bad, it isn't bad. 

Xini is NOT the only area of the game Vauban was effective at, either.

Edited by Zakalwe
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Read what I wrote, didn't mention pressing 3 more than once. You don't need to. At all.

Change was good.

PS - exploitation of xini was never intended, this is more in line with how the game was MEANT to be. Stop thinking that because Bastille can't make high end XIni easy mode the change is bad, it isn't bad. 

Xini is NOT the only area of the game Vauban was effective at, either.

Read what I wrote, the nerf changes nothing

 

PS - who are you to say how the game is MEANT to be played? Everyone plays the game differently and the options are there to be explored in any way anyone wants. Stop thinking high end Xini easy mode is gone when in fact you just need to press 3 a few more times.

 

what I adressed in the opening post is that the nerf does nothing to the smarter players because they can just continue doing things the way they want by spawning a few more bastilles

apparently this doesn't get through to your thick head and your still mumbling the same irrelevant mumbo jumbo

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Doesn't change anything. Infested survival tends to run out of oxygen long before you have problems with enemies piling up, and Xini groups never go high enough for ancients to get tough enough for that to happen either.

 

Only way for you to even hit the 12 unit limit would be for everybody to be leveling their weapons, which... actually seems to happen quite a lot since the Strun Wraith.

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Nerfs are a waste of time.  Nerfs do not a game make.

Yes because every game that had nerf was a flop. WOW had nerfs, game was so bad nobody play it. LOL had nerf, nobody plays it. Every other game that offers multiple playing characters ( PvP, PvE ) had nerf, and they all went down in a metter of days.

 

We will see those "Vauban nerf was bad idea" post for a week and people will go play Mag, the new godess of Pull spam.

Edited by RoboDog
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a clanmate brought this up, I think it was worth posting.

 

the snowglobe of the frost isn't 100% impregnable

there are grineer napalm units and railgun moa's who can penetrate it

 

would it have been too hard to introduce an enemy which could counter bastille?

you only really need it for infested since the rest of the factions have ranged enemies

 

I already know what I'm going to do about the new nerf:

use 2-3 bastilles or take one more vauban in the party to cast multiple

 

this nerf did nothing but make us spawn a few more bastilles

good job xD

Totally agree.

Here is my suggestion:

Rollback changes to Basi, making basi to levitate all enemies, BUT:

Ancient Healer (infested) should be immune to Basi and have aura that make other units in a close range (5-10m) immune to Basi. Same for Orokin Void Ancient Infested.

Corpus Tech should be able to "fix" units around him, making them immune to Basi. For example he could attach some sort of device to his allies, that makes them immune to Basi. Or dispatch anti-Basi drone that acts like shield drone, but has different energy color (purple instead of blue) and makes units affected by this dron immune to Basi.

All Grineer heavy units immune to Basi and also Seekers and Commanders. Well basically most of grineer tend to shoot you from far away anyway.

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Totally agree.

Here is my suggestion:

Rollback changes to Basi, making basi to levitate all enemies, BUT:

Ancient Healer (infested) should be immune to Basi and have aura that make other units in a close range (5-10m) immune to Basi. Same for Orokin Void Ancient Infested.

Corpus Tech should be able to "fix" units around him, making them immune to Basi. For example he could attach some sort of device to his allies, that makes them immune to Basi. Or dispatch anti-Basi drone that acts like shield drone, but has different energy color (purple instead of blue) and makes units affected by this dron immune to Basi.

All Grineer heavy units immune to Basi and also Seekers and Commanders. Well basically most of grineer tend to shoot you from far away anyway.

corpus and grineer dont need bastille resistance, it's fine the way it is since they are mostly ranged enemies and already have some units that are immune to it

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Vortex doesn't have a cap right? I think that, when all else fails with Bastille, that's where Vortex comes in. Now that it's not Trolltex anymore, it will actually be useful (unless you throw it on your low HP teammate while 5 Toxics are around, then you're still a troll xD).

Edited by Casardis
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People are complaining way too much about Vauban who need a balance check since his release. Being able to hold unlimited amount of enemies in air with his fish net seems more of a game breaking issue for infested and any melee. The changes coming to damage should or wont make this change bearable for some people if not, Vauban will still be used by myself and I'll make it work.

 

And I have made it work. I've sit there in a defense map and other maps. STREAMED it and showed its possible to still play him.

Edited by Gravefire
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drones and other flying S#&$ can get through it

 

but yea this mainly just made it so we spawn like 3 bastilles at once now

It still counts the drones an other flying S#&$ as affected by it. For example if there's 4 ospreys flying around you can only catch 8 or so crewmen/moas.

It's especially fun when you try to use it on grineer map and there will be rollers and latchers. Or in corpus maps with techs who spawn more and more shield ospreys.

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