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Warframe abilities just removes the challenge out of Conservation


StuphChicken
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November 14th. edit

To clarify, I'm not against making Conservation easier or calling for the removal of Warframe abilities in conservation, but rather than using Warframe abilities to make it easier, I would prefer if the Tranq Rifle was more relevant instead.
Currently, the Tranq Rifle is pretty crap. It has slow reload, one shot, and needs careful aiming to catch Rolarolas and possibly for Kubrodons as well, who knows. Why bother even using it when you have ability to bypass the need for the Tranq Rifle. What Conservation needs instead is better Tranq Rifles or Upgrade/Widgets for them. This will remove the dependence on having specific Warframes to make Conservation easy. Thus making it easier for all players and making it feel more rewarding.

Original Post

With the recent change that allows Sleep Abilities from Ivara and Equinox to work on animals, it has now completely removed the purpose of the tranq rifle and thus the challenge of Conservation. Why use the Tranq Rifle, its projectile based, single target, slow reloading, not silence, and penalizes the player for missing. While Sleep Arrow (Ivara) or Rest (Equinox) are instant (Sleep Arrow has an extremely fast flight speed), Area of Effect, spammable based on energy, and its silence, so even if you miss, there is no penalty. The Tranq Rifle might as well be call the Animal Locator now as its purpose is to location the animal first.
 

Abilities that bypass the mechanic

  • Ivara's Sleep Arrow
  • Equinox's Rest

Abilities that lock down the animal, preventing them from running

  • Vauban's Bastille
  • Titania's Spellbind
  • Khora's Ensnare
  • Trinity's Well of Life
  • Harrow's Condemn
Edited by StuphChicken
Nov 14th edit, To clarify the problem
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That would only apply to the newer players or the unlucky few who can't manage to get the parts for those frame. But still total bypass on the mechanic of Conservation ruins the purpose of it, plus its not just sleep abilities that can cheese Conservation. Just tested, Vauban's Bastille, also lock-down the animal.

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50 minutes ago, Linisti said:

They do remove the challenge; that's the point of using them. They're almost essential on bolarolas with the previous hitbox and getting all 3 poppers.

Then, its no longer essential for the Bolarola, as the new hitbox is much more forgiving than before.
In the case of Pobbers, most people used Banshee already to prevent them from running after the first shot.

Honestly, if we're going to have systems to bypass the challenge, we might as well be able to put the fish asleep then.

Edited by StuphChicken
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3 hours ago, StuphChicken said:

Then, its no longer essential for the Bolarola, as the new hitbox is much more forgiving than before.
In the case of Pobbers, most people used Banshee already to prevent them from running after the first shot.

Honestly, if we're going to have systems to bypass the challenge, we might as well be able to put the fish asleep then.

its not much more forgiving, it just actually fits the belly of the bolarola, the previous doesn't. I don't see why you're so adamant on making it harder. If you want a challenge, just don't cheese it. This game isn't played by just you, it's played by other players who arent as skilled as you, so having methods that make it easier helps everyone. If you don't like that sleep makes it easier, just don't use sleep.

Edited by Linisti
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Yes. They do. If they didn't there would be a nice logical gap. Why can't the two sleep abilities work on animals other than enemies? If you were a real Tenno with those warframes and had to catch animals, wouldn't you do it?

Just like you bring the right frame for the enemies/mission you're about to face you bring the right frame to ease a chore on Fortuna. If you want to. Nobody forces you to.

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I do it the old-fashioned way, without Banshee or anything and still got a pretty good catch rate, actually 1/3 or 0/3 in 25% of cases, sometimes even 2/3. I guess I could proceed to cheese it until they nerf it, which might be quite soon now that you fools decided to post about it. There's already all kinds of cheeses for most stuff, making Warframe look like a supermarket cheese section, and forums the w(h)ine section. They go well together. My personal favourite is the smoked cheese sausage, too bad they're always out on that.

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  • Failing Bounties (Even if you bring the perfect team, you can fail if your team is not paying attention)
  • Fishing - Missing fish cause them to panic and possibly despawn.
  • Mining - Under/Overheating hotspots provide less material.
  • K-drive - Not sticking the landing results in all points lost.

There is a penalty system for everything in the Orb Vallis, it just doesn't feel right to remove it entirely or remove the fail condition of Conservation. As I stated, you can now also lock down the animals with damage-less crowd control.

5 hours ago, den2k said:

If they didn't there would be a nice logical gap. Why can't the two sleep abilities work on animals other than enemies? If you were a real Tenno with those warframes and had to catch animals, wouldn't you do it??

Alright you got me there, I'll have to agree with on logical part.

7 hours ago, Linisti said:

it's played by other players who arent as skilled as you, so having methods that make it easier helps everyone. If you don't like that sleep makes it easier, just don't use sleep.?

I know some players are having problems with Conservation, many players have suggested upgrades/widgets system similar to the Synthesis Scanner for the Tranq Rifle to make Conservation easier. Upgrades/Widgets like, suppression, a magazine for the Tranq Rifle, piercing darts, or lower visibility with Tranq Rifle equipped. It would be best if these upgrades/widget can be purchased with animal tags rather than Solaris United standing, as it will reward players for deal with the difficulty and give the tags another purpose instead of just Floofs and an emblem.

For example: Piercing dart, allowing the player to ignore the Bolarola's armor.
Exchange 10 Spotted, 5 Black, and 1 Thorny Bolarola Tags

Edited by StuphChicken
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6 hours ago, Pendragon1951 said:

The simple obvious answer is if you think it's cheesing it, then don't use your powers and hunt the way you want to hunt.

Cheesing isn't always bad and it is sometimes necessary to combat a frustrating and mundane task. The main problem of Conservation is the usage of the Tranq Rifle. While we have multiple fishing spears, which specializes in catch certain fish, or the multiple tier of mining laser, which allows you to get the rarer materials. There is only one Tranq Rifle, there is no upgrades/other versions of it which allows you to have an easier time with Conservation. The solution shouldn't be warframe powers, instead it should have been upgrades/widgets/other version of the Tranq Rifle and these upgrades would be if they can be best purchase with tags as it will provide another use of animal tags.

Edited by StuphChicken
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1 hour ago, DeltaPangaea said:

I mean, Ivara with one augment completely removes the fail condition from like 90% of spy vaults, and that hasn't changed.

 

It only prevents two situations that can lead to a fail condition, be spotted or tripping a trap. Assuming you're not using ciphers or that you're in sorties, you can still trigger the alarm by failing to hack. However, since most people have grown used to it due to practice and repetition, its not much of a problem. Plus Ivara, unless you purchased her with platinum, is a reward for completing multiple varying levels of spy missions without losing a vault. The player needs to run spies the hard way before they can get the easy way.

Same can be said about Conservation, its going to be hard at first, it will be become easier later with practice, that why I rather see upgrades to tranq rifle rather than Warframe abilities, to make the tranq rifle actually worth using.

Like the previous example: People have problems with catching Rolabolas

Piercing dart, allowing the player to ignore the Bolarola's armor.
Exchange 10 Spotted, 5 Black, and 1 Thorny Bolarola Tags

Reward the player for doing it the hard way with ability to do it the easy way.

Edited by StuphChicken
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I would like to see upgrades to the tranq rifle so that the easiest thing isn't just "lol-Ivara" or some other frame. But I do think it'd be silly for some random rat on Venus to be immune to supernatural space ninja magic that typically works on 90~some-odd percent of the enemies in the game, some of which have powers of their own or are centuries old abominations.

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Am 13.11.2018 um 05:47 schrieb StuphChicken:

With the recent change that allows Sleep Abilities from Ivara and Equinox to work on animals, it has now completely removed the purpose of the tranq rifle and thus the challenge of Conservation. Why use the Tranq Rifle, its projectile based, single target, slow reloading, not silence, and penalizes the player for missing.?

The good thing is @StuphChicken, that Conservation is pretty much a good solo-content.
So why do you bother? If you don't want the abilities, then don't use it.
In that mode it is not that it will matter at all.

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15 minutes ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

The good thing is @StuphChicken, that Conservation is pretty much a good solo-content.
So why do you bother? If you don't want the abilities, then don't use it.
In that mode it is not that it will matter at all.

You missed my point, my argument is that if Conservation is to be made easier, the solution shouldn't be just the Warframe abilities. As currently, the Tranq Rifle is irrelevant when using those frames. Not only that, it limits new players or the unlucky few that can't get frames to have more enjoyable time.

Edited by StuphChicken
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vor 2 Minuten schrieb StuphChicken:

You missed my point, my argument is that if Conservation is to be made easier, the solution shouldn't be just the Warframe abilities. As currently, the Tranq Rifle is irrelevant when using those frames. Not only that, it limits new players or the unlucky few that can't get frames to have more enjoyable time.

I would like to see the Tranq buffed too.
See my thread here.

It is just that everyone can choose, so why cannot some use abilities and some can use tranq rifle.

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