Warframe abilities just removes the challenge out of Conservation

[Kainosh]

On 2018-11-13 at 7:47 AM, StuphChicken said:

Curr?ently, the Tranq Rifle is pretty c?ra?p?

I agree that TR sux and that it needs some adjustment....

 

But i still would like to use Ivara's sleep for hunting.   Make it affect Animals only on direct hit if you need to, but dont remove that option entirely.

I love Volt's fishing and Ivara's hunting....  Its just good when abilities can be used outside of battle. 

 

Kinda wish Frost could create ice platforms on water.... Need more of that stuff.   

[StuphChicken]

3 hours ago, Kainosh said:

I agree that TR sux and that it needs some adjustment....

 

But i still would like to use Ivara's sleep for hunting.   Make it affect Animals only on direct hit if you need to, but dont remove that option entirely.

I love Volt's fishing and Ivara's hunting....  Its just good when abilities can be used outside of battle. 

 

Kinda wish Frost could create ice platforms on water.... Need more of that stuff.   

I am not calling for the removal of Warframe ability from Conservation, but there needs to be an alternative way to make it easier and accessible to all players. Although I dislike it, Warframe abilities is currently the only way to make Conservation easier for some players.

Edited November 18, 2018 by StuphChicken

[TurboWonka]

Let them have rifle upgrades. But, don't touch my cheese ?

Edited November 18, 2018 by TurboWonka

[EinheriarJudith]

id make the rifle gildable. upon gilding it has silenced shots, piercing shots, and always shows an outline of the creature while aiming. put gilding at rank 3 and require a good amount of hunting to gain affinity with it.

Edit: to bad we dont have a hooded syandana that matches the cold winter of venus.

Edited November 19, 2018 by EinheriarJudith

[Cortanis]

Question. Anyone know if Ferrox's tether works on the animals as well?

[StuphChicken]

3 hours ago, Cortanis said:

Question. Anyone know if Ferrox's tether works on the animals as well?

I wouldn't try that, as the Ferrox's tether will shock anything tether to it for 150 damage every 5 seconds, thus killing the animal.

[xGryphus]

On 2018-11-13 at 4:23 PM, StuphChicken said:

I know some players are having problems with Conservation, many players have suggested upgrades/widgets system similar to the Synthesis Scanner for the Tranq Rifle to make Conservation easier. Upgrades/Widgets like, suppression, a magazine for the Tranq Rifle, piercing darts, or lower visibility with Tranq Rifle equipped. It would be best if these upgrades/widget can be purchased with animal tags rather than Solaris United standing, as it will reward players for deal with the difficulty and give the tags another purpose instead of just Floofs and an emblem.

For example: Piercing dart, allowing the player to ignore the Bolarola's armor.
Exchange 10 Spotted, 5 Black, and 1 Thorny Bolarola Tags

This is great idea, I would love that. Would be even greater if each widget changed TR appearance a bit (by adding/modifyng parts of rifle).

At the same time conservating with Ivara feels so immeasurably immersive...

[AStreetsign]

To me the problem isn't so much that some warframes have abilities that make conservation ridiculously easy. I actually like the fact that the abilities are functioning according to the lore and flavour text. I think the problem is that when one way of doing conservation feels so powerful then other ways don't seem worthwhile. I don't have Ivara, and although I was having a lot of fun doing conservation tasks I was seriously considering putting off the stuff I actually want to do right now in Orb Vallis to go and grind for Ivara. I just want to point out that I don't even know how much more efficient Ivara is at conservation tasks, just the fact that people are talking about the difference in efficiency has been enough to make me feel like my current farming is insignificant and I should stop until I have Ivara to make the best use of my time. I think having upgrades for the Tranq Rifle would help make it feel like I am making progress in floof farming conservation by doing conservation (which is what I actually want to be doing right now).

[Disruptis]

I agree to your edited, second point. Although I also agree that for lifestyle content, there should be a bigger incentive to not cheese your way through. Right now it's far too hard to get consistent perfect capture rates with some animals without using warframe abilities, no matter how skilled you are. I feel like DE just released the warframe ability interaction as a cheap way for people to speed-run the annoying content they don't like, which kind of feels like they're ripping away the reward of fighting for it. Especially since conservation is not mandatory or required in anyway: it's pure-hearted lifestyle content. Avid lifestyle players can find their niche in honing their skills to a T, and then show off their hard work in the floofs they get. Being able to just sleep the animals and grab the same amount of reward in shorter and less difficult time is just making fun of them.

[FeralKuja]

I mean, DE will fix bugs and exploits, like spamming left click to get a super high multiplier for K-Drive tricks got fixed. They're not gonna nerf the Ventkids/K-Drive rep grind you can do in The Pearl because that at least is more involved.

People who WANT to have their challenge in conservation are free to use any frames they wish to, while people who want to cheese with sleep effects can use Equinox or Ivara at their leisure without effecting anyone else's gameplay.

You do you, and let others do them, because unless something massively game-changing is added to Conservation like being able to do a weekly set of captures to get Reactors/Catalysts or other high end items, I figure it's fair to let people do Conservation how they want to and defer to DE's judgment on how difficult/easy it should be.

[Disruptis]

On 2018-11-20 at 5:32 PM, FeralKuja said:

People who WANT to have their challenge in conservation are free to use any frames they wish to, while people who want to cheese with sleep effects can use Equinox or Ivara at their leisure without effecting anyone else's gameplay.

1

Well, the main reason we are complaining about that is because it's not an essential part of the game. It's lifestyle content. Content that certain people can spend lots of time honing their skill at and show off the fruits of their labour to others. Having people able to just cheese it with sleep and get the same floof collection is basically spitting on the faces of anyone actually trying to enjoy that part of the game. DE has already made actions against this in other areas, such as the ember and banshee nerfs that no longer let them cheese entire missions. It wouldn't be far-fetched at all to have them make this change as well. DE just made the change in the beginning because people were whining about how they sucked at conservation. Just use an invis frame! That's easy enough.

[Ikusias]

1 hour ago, Disruptis said:

Well, the main reason we are complaining about that is because it's not an essential part of the game. It's lifestyle content. Content that certain people can spend lots of time honing their skill at and show off the fruits of their labour to others. Having people able to just cheese it with sleep and get the same floof collection is basically spitting on the faces of anyone actually trying to enjoy that part of the game. DE has already made actions against this in other areas, such as the ember and banshee nerfs that no longer let them cheese entire missions. It wouldn't be far-fetched at all to have them make this change as well. DE just made the change in the beginning because people were whining about how they sucked at conservation. Just use an invis frame! That's easy enough.

Emphasis mine: DE completelt failed with the changes on both Ember and Banshee... Ember still burns her ay trough any map of the starchart, what she lost was that bit of CC and survivability she got from World of Fire + augment - Banshee augment become even stronger by turning Resonating Quacke from an expanding and increasing in cost channelled power to a single press AoE nuke that could be spammed very quickly while retaining energy regeneration...

[Takkyi]

So you do something wrong. I'm wondering right now. Skills for the animals?
Um ... invisibility with Ivara and that's it. I myself collect the animals easily, without any skills. And that with Saryn.
Just play decently, use your head. And let DE work on more important things. This here is absolute nonsense. ?

[Kierlak]

Other people are doing a thing I don't like, please ruin it for them.

[StuphChicken]

16 hours ago, Kierlak said:

Other people are doing a thing I don't like, please ruin it for them.

On 2018-11-18 at 11:08 AM, StuphChicken said:

I am not calling for the removal of Warframe ability from Conservation, but there needs to be an alternative way to make it easier and accessible to all players. Although I dislike it, Warframe abilities is currently the only way to make Conservation e?asier for some players.??

 

 

[tucker_d_dawg]

On 2018-11-18 at 11:08 AM, StuphChicken said:

I am not calling for the removal of Warframe ability from Conservation, but there needs to be an alternative way to make it easier and accessible to all players. Although I dislike it, Warframe abilities is currently the only way to make Conservation easier for some players.

I disagree - allowing WF abilities to make it easier, while being more difficult for _some_ players who don't have them is fine.  It provides motivation for those players who DONT have the frames to farm them, and provides a "reward" for those that DID farm them.

Your argument is a little like saying sorties should be level 10-15 enemies to make it easier and more accessible to all players when currently they are challenging for newer players and trivial for the people that have the right gear.

 

[Disruptis]

22 hours ago, Ikusias said:

DE completelt failed with the changes on both Ember and Banshee... Ember still burns her ay trough any map of the starchart, what she lost was that bit of CC and survivability she got from World of Fire + augment - Banshee augment become even stronger by turning Resonating Quacke from an expanding and increasing in cost channelled power to a single press AoE nuke that could be spammed very quickly while retaining energy regeneration...

3

You may or may not be correct, I won't get into that. However, that info doesn't serve anything to refute my statement on DE at least trying to change them.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Disruptis

[Disruptis]

57 minutes ago, tucker_d_dawg said:

I disagree - allowing WF abilities to make it easier, while being more difficult for _some_ players who don't have them is fine.  It provides motivation for those players who DONT have the frames to farm them, and provides a "reward" for those that DID farm them.

3

If you're arguing that then it's also just as valid to argue that it should be taken away entirely. It'd be fine.

That way, it provides motivation for those players who DON'T have skill to git gud, and provides a "reward" for those that DID practice for a couple hours. Honestly, it doesn't take an unreasonable amount of time to learn how to do it well consistently.

[Plushy]

If you people end up making it harder for me to get floofs, I'll never forgive you.

[StuphChicken]

2 hours ago, tucker_d_dawg said:

I disagree - allowing WF abilities to make it easier, while being more difficult for _some_ players who don't have them is fine.  It provides motivation for those players who DONT have the frames to farm them, and provides a "reward" for those that ?DID farm them.

Your? argume?nt is a? little? like say?ing s?orties sh?ould ??be level 1?0-???15 ?ene?mie?s to make? it easier and m?ore accessible ?t?o all p?layers w?hen curre?ntl?y t??hey a?re challe?nging for newer players and trivial for the people that have the right gear.?

 

But Fortuna is not exclusively "endgame" or high level content, it was designed for all players alike, new or veteran. The alternative method to make conservation easier that I provided earlier was not just a simple hand out where players get it immediately. Players will have to work to earn the easy way to Conservation.

On 2018-11-13 at 10:23 AM, StuphChicken said:

I know some players are having problems with Conservation, many players have suggested upgrades/widgets system similar to the Synthesis Scanner for the Tranq Rifle to make Conservation easier. Upgrades/Widgets like, suppression, a magazine for the Tranq Rifle, piercing darts, or lower visibility with Tranq Rifle equipped. It would be best if these upgrades/widget can be purchased with animal tags rather than Solaris United standing, as it will reward players for deal with the difficulty and give the tags another purpose instead of just Floofs and an emblem.

On 2018-11-12 at 11:47 PM, StuphChicken said:

Currently, the Tranq Rifle is pretty crap. It has slow reload, one shot, and needs careful aiming to catch Rolarolas and possibly for Kubrodons as well, who knows. Why bother even using it when you have ability to bypass the need for the Tranq Rifle. What Conservation needs instead is better Tranq Rifles or Upgrade/Widgets for them. This will remove the dependence on having specific Warframes to make Conservation easy. Thus making it easier for all players and making it feel more rewarding.

[tucker_d_dawg]

9 minutes ago, StuphChicken said:

But Fortuna is not exclusively "endgame" or high level content, it was designed for all players alike, new or veteran. The alternative method to make conservation easier that I provided earlier was not just a simple hand out where players get it immediately. Players will have to work to earn the easy way to Conservation.

I agree on all your points re: the tranq gun: it sucks and I never use it.  I'm just saying that in and of itself is not a reason to make conservation easier for new players - it is achievable without the stealth frames - the frames just make it less frustrating.

• I like your piercing dart idea.
• why its alarming is beyond me: its an air gun that makes a pfft sound.
• you should also be able to purchase scent masking gear since the wind concept is so poorly implemented - little accurate indication to the wind direction, you dont generally have time to get up wind anyway since you have to stand near the call point to use the call even IF (and thats a big if) you can identify the direction the responding call came from.  I still get the animals running away before I ever see them even when invisible and hiding in a tree or with my back against a rock.  Sometimes the text of "ready your tranq" and "you've lost it" are back to back even after their patches.

[notlamprey]

1 hour ago, Plushy said:

If you people end up making it harder for me to get floofs, I'll never forgive you.

No kidding.

It's already more than difficult enough, considering the number of ways in which you can make no mistakes and still get done over.

Corpus killing animals, hitboxes with poor geometry, the unreliable and inconsistent wind mechanic... thanks, but i'll be stacking the deck every which way I possibly can.

[Rugenio]

I disagree. I think warframe abilities should be taken away from conservation, even though I don't know how that should be logically coherent (super genetically modified animals immune to warframe powers? whatever, not the point. Some animals in PoE are immune to a lot of warframe abilities anyway). I know a lot of people will hate me for this opinion but I still think it's what should be done. The most cheese I'd allow is banshee silencing the rifle. I'm using ivara to cap rep with conservation and it's boring, it's almost impossible to let an animal escape.

On 2018-11-17 at 2:42 PM, DarkRuler2500 said:

Volt's passive does bypass the Cetus fishing spears too.
I guess its ok, since it gives some frames an advantage in certain fields.

Volt passive only removes the need to change the spear, not the fishing process in itself. To make a comparison, Ivara or equinox's power in conservation is equal to randomly throwing a fishing spear in water and getting fish. You still have to aim even with Volt. Ivara's wires in fishing aren't really cheesy either because they just give you more angles to fire from, fishing is still entertaining with them because they are QoL warframes, not "press 2 buttons, gg" warframes for that activity. 

On 2018-11-15 at 12:33 AM, DeltaPangaea said:

I mean, Ivara with one augment completely removes the fail condition from like 90% of spy vaults, and that hasn't changed.

 

And I believe that Ivara makes spy missions not fun. I was having more fun doing conservation when i didn't know sleep abilities worked on the animals. Cheesing is fun the first 2 or 3 times you do it, then it becomes repetitive. 

 

On 2018-11-14 at 4:41 PM, Pendragon1951 said:

The simple obvious answer is if you think it's cheesing it, then don't use your powers and hunt the way you want to hunt.

 

On 2018-11-20 at 11:32 PM, FeralKuja said:

People who WANT to have their challenge in conservation are free to use any frames they wish to, while people who want to cheese with sleep effects can use Equinox or Ivara at their leisure without effecting anyone else's gameplay.

You do you, and let others do them, because unless something massively game-changing is added to Conservation like being able to do a weekly set of captures to get Reactors/Catalysts or other high end items, I figure it's fair to let people do Conservation how they want to and defer to DE's judgment on how difficult/easy it should be.

But why should I? Am I so much masochistic that, knowing there is a way to simply get what I want with no effort, I'd still force myself to do it the hard way? No I'm not. It's the game's job to balance difficulty and such. When people complain about sorties being too easy I don't see anyone telling them "just use 30/60 of your mod capacity on weapons and warframes, no rivens, warframe chosen randomly so that you get the difficulty you want and let me cheese my sortie in peace". Because limiting one's own arsenal is not what should make the game hard. It should be stuff like stronger enemies, conditions added by the game (like those on sorties), harder mechanical requirements.
People can't put limits on their arsenal by themselves, because if then they fail a mission 3 times in a row, they'll think "maybe it's because the limits I put were too strict" and remove or change them until they manage, making the initial point vain. If the game puts the limits and you fail 3 times in a row a mission, you don't blame the limits but what you were doing since someone else has managed to do it with the same conditions put on them.

If I go hunting a kubrodon and fail because I didn't bring Ivara, I don't think "what should have I done better" but "oh, this rifle sucks so much, we can silence a rocket launcher but not a tranq rifle, why am I not using Ivara?". Being able to cheese with no effort removes all stimulus to try to do it normally. Again, I don't get why I should go all the way out to make this hard for me if I already have everything to make it pointlessly easy. I can just go play another game to get entertainment instead of working out in my mind what is the appropriate gear to make this content not boring. As I said, balancing is the game's job. The tranq rifle though probably needs some form of buff or at least purchasable upgrade, like reduced projectile drop and noise (meaning you can shoot the animals from closer without them hearing you).

This game should be space ninjas, not space farmers (and not because of the grind but because we always try to bring the grind to the most effortless and idle method possible) and every time something challenging is added, if the reward for doing it isn't sht, people start complaining because it's too hard.

I know I sounded angry and you want your floofs but I'm just disappointed that a minigame with such fun mechanics can be trivialized so easily and they probably won't change conservation to make it harder given that mine is the unpopular opinion. The only change I can see DE making is buffing tranq rifle.

[Guest]

so long as patrols and mini spiderbots popping out of every bloody corner by the second cheese it all the way, they come out kill or scare the animals f**king up your progress, there are still bugged nodes as well, nodes that don't trigger the next step properly pretty much, so use away

99% of the time it'll give you lowest tier animal spawn anyway so f**k challange really

[KamikazeKamanzi]

On 2018-12-07 at 4:29 AM, Rugenio said:

 

This game should be space ninjas, not space farmers (and not because of the grind but because we always try to bring the grind to the most effortless and idle method possible) and every time something challenging is added, if the reward for doing it isn't sht, people start complaining because it's too hard.

 

If this game should be space ninjas we wouldn't be conserving animal life in the first place. For the game to restrict us from playing how we want than that's an issue. If people want to cheese than we should be able to. If people want to do things inefficiently let them do so. Stop trying to make things mandatory on a community that doesn't like to waste their time.