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An idea of Loki Rework


Noldastyr
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I'm pretty much a fan of Loki.But let's be honest, Loki doesn't age really well. I feel that and know that my fandom towards him is me being partial due to his concept, while I know that Loki is outpreformed in every aspect by other frames. I know I'm not the first to type this down, but I hope that I can be (even if just a little) a part of the message that reaches development.
What made Loki identical in the old days? His invisibility, his decoy, and his Disarm mechanics, and how these all were fitting together. He was a unique trickster who left people wander around while he lurked in the shadow and stole all of his enemy's weapon. But with the updates, what's left for him? Only the disarm.
The Operator/Warframe shifts basicly gives everyone his Decoy. The operator's void mode is an updated version of his invisibility. His 3 is easily outpreformed with the void dashes, with those fancy School's talent on them. But don't misunderstand me. I generally like his concept. I don't want to change his playstyle or his tools, to something else, he just need some shifts in the existing aspects so he could keep up.
Idea:
Loki is a frame about deception. A frame that make his enemies see that he wants them to see, while he does his job in the shadows. Most of the ideas around want to give him damage abilities, big range aoe, or things like that, but that's not him. His toolkit is utility, and his damage is stealth boosted weapon damage, and that's right about him.
What would i change about him then?
1: Decoy:
Instead of creating a Decoy, He could turn things into his clone, and make them taunt enemies, and gave his target extra tankiness. He could cast it on other players, or enemies, or specters. If somebody misses the old Decoy, it could be replaced by a Specter+Decoy on it. Anybody and anything Decoyed retains their ability, the only exceptions are flyers (drones for example). They turn into walkers, but do the same thing.
2:Invisibility:
Good as it is. However, it would be nice if it could be recasted while Invisible.
3:Switch Teleport:
Good as it is. But i would add a disarm effect on it, and maybe maxhp percentage based fall damage on enemies who are swapped to mid-air position (synergy to passive like that).
4:Radial Disarm:
Next to its current effect, it should have a kind of drain/second aspect of it. While active, whatever hits the "Decoy", Loki change place with it, no matter the distance, and disarm it. So basicly, it would be a 3 spam at reduced cost, targeting the ones that hit the decoy. Each swaps would drain an amount of energy, but not as much as his 3 does.
That would make the battlefield shiftin rapidly, causing deception and confusion, what's Loki all about.

Just think about it. If Loki could give for example an Absording Nyx some taunt value, or... draw fire on the most tanky frame, his synergy would be much better with other frames. Rapidly disarming foes would also give some endurance value to him (too much? Nah. the foes are still alive and fighting, while, for example, Octavia does "distract" enemies, so they do no ranged damage, as they were disarmed,and she also does plenty of damage to them meanwhile, most likely killing them in the process). His drain aspect on his radial disarm could make his builds diverse (Full range- Good against instant killing enemies, since even one hit could kill a player, Duration/efficiency - good disarm on hit on decoy, so lower level enemies are disarmed more effectively).
 

Edited by Kilences
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36 minutes ago, Kilences said:

If somebody misses the old Decoy, it could be replaced by a Specter+Decoy on it

This is honestly a crap way to 'appease' those who like the current decoy.  Not only would you have a resource cost with using it this way, but it'd take up an easily accessible gear slot or a hotkey.  Plus if I'm wanting to place a decoy to switch with, I don't want to be slowed down by having a second step that I need to go through.  You also have the chance for trolling by targeting a squishy team-mate even if they gained a defence buff.  Also I'm pretty sure Nyxs Absorb already creates agro.

The refresh-able invisibility would be a nice QoL addition.

Being able to injure enemies via creative switching is cool

I really don't like the idea that after using RD you'd switch places with something that hits the decoy.  It turns a CC/clump combo into 'Why the hell do I keep getting pulled in' frustration.

Edited by Starfreak911
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@Starfreak0831 You can Decoy enemies too. And you can turn off the 4 after use. Or don't decoy anybody so you don't have the drain over time aspect (i didn't specified this, but no Decoy->no drain over time, since there is no decoy to hit anyway).
EDIT:
It might be a fix if the skill itself have a "minimal swap interval" between swaps on 4, depending on the power strenght. So you doesn't swap just like 2-3 seconds while on low power strenght. But if u go for increased ability strenght, you can rapidly disarm a whole room (dashing around something like the old ash 4).

And about the "got the chance to troll squishy frames" thing, yeah... limbo also has an aspect like that, so things like that can make it into the game. And they should make it into the game. If you can affect people's gameplay, it means there is possibilities for deeper cooperation/more tactical approach to situations. Adding a way to quit being decoyed, and granting an immunity buff of it for a time could solve the trolling problem.

Edited by Kilences
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@(PS4)Ghost--00-- Thanks for your feedback. I don't hate Loki in his current state, it's not like he's bad, it's more like his skills are way too similar to Operator's abilities and movement. And most of his power is basicly has its free alternative in Operator's skills.
Decoy is basicly the warframe that you leave behind when u enter operator mode. Invisibility is Void mode. And in void mode u are also invulnerable. If u die in operator mod, you proc a saviour decoy. Switch Teleport is void dash. Only radial disarm left, but hey.... other frames get 4 unique abilities next to Operator mode, and Loki has only 1.

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Just so you know, DE don't really take into consideration, reply or even read most of these kinds of posts. So chances are, your not gonna persuade them to change anything.

Most of their decisions on what changes in the game is primarily based on what THEY want, rather then what the community needs. Take Vauban, for example, he needs a rework, BAD, but all de gave him was a useless charge to he balls and that's because, I believe it was Steve who said "I don't see what else he needed" despite Vauban being the biggest piece of sh!t in the game, and the community literally telling them what he needs. Instead we are left with a old, broken, outdated, out matched frame that doesn't seem to be coming out of his little worthless shell any time soon.

And if you know DE well, then you will know that if a change does come to Loki, it will be a nerf, or in some way just not as good as he is right now.

 

Edited by (PS4)Syalin_
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Loki is probably the last frame that needs any adjustments whatsoever. sure his kit is extremely simplistic especially compared to newer frames, but it's still hella effective and not boring if what his kit provides is what you're looking for. if you want something else, there's a plethora of other frames to pick from, some of which have invisibility also which is one of Loki's main strengths

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Just saying but the operator also has "Disarming blast" from the naramon school that disarms enemies hit by void blast (50% chance), which is essentially a really weak version of radial disarm.

As for the ability changes; as mentioned before the 1st does open up the trolling aspect, and also it would be a pain to use specters; why not make it that if you don't aim at an enemy/ally it makes a decoy as it currently does.

2nd is a nice QoL. 3rd sounds nice especially because of how high you can get with bullet jumping or archwing if you're in PoE or OV.

With the 4th why don't you make it that enemies are just disarmed without the need for Loki to switch with them; that's the main reason Ash's blade storm changed the mandatory "join the fray on cast" to "join the fray with teleport".

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@(PS4)Syalin_ I don't really expect a major breakout through this idea of course. It's just "a lottery ticket i bought". I also doesn't really like Vauban, but he's not that bad, just mediocre. I grab him many times for Interception missions (Bastille), or against infested (Vortex) I mean... Repelling Bastille is pretty great, and Vortex is also strong as hell. Name an other frame that can seal off a door for 5 minutes. It's a shame that those skills doesn't synergize at all, its rather either this or that. But yeah, his balls are just simply terrible (only useful thing to do with them is based on spamming, which makes it boring), and I'm still waiting to use his 2 in any situation for anything. Still Wukong 3 is worse, or Nyx 2, but in defense of DE, they promised changes about those, due to the feedbacks they got from their fans, like us. Maybe if we have a bit of an echo about this thing, it also reaches them like those did.

@(PS4)gershwonder His Decoy is holding a Lato as a threatening weapon, and it doesn't even copy the appearance of the frame itself. If nothing else, these two things are undeniably just outdated visually, even if you don't agree with me in the other stuff. So the "doesn't really need any adjustment at all" thing is not really true, even if you disagree with my other points. I know that i can pick other frames for stealth, this isn't a ragepost or a "you broke my frame so fix it or i quit" type of post here, just feedbacks about my experience with him. It's not a demand, just a point of view for readers to consider... or not. That's why its labelled "An idea of loki rework", and not "must have fixes to make it work".

@AndouRaiton 1:Yeah, i thought about that too. But then it would slow down aiming if you want to cast it on an enemy, since if u miss, you "waste" energy to something else you intended. Maybe it could be fixed something like Gara's 1. I mean charging the skill changes the skill's function. Like taping does something like now, charging it could put the decoy on something.
And about the 4, It's also a nice idea, maybe a more preferable one due to not having that random blinking aspect, thus giving more control, but i thought about having that "click" of the character that he screws up enemy's positioning by switching places around. Something like a fingerprint of a frame designed after a god of mischief. He could teleport parasitic, toxic, leech eximuses away, or closer unintentionally, which is part of that "messes up things for good or bad" feeling of a trickster what he is.

Edited by Kilences
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