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Synth Charge was nerfed in the worst way possbile and something needs to be done


AlienOvermind
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We have tons of useless or almost useless mods. Getting another one shouldn't be a big deal, right? But Synth Charge is different. Unlike things like Intruder that were useless from the very beginning, Synth Charge could be a good mod.

First point: Knell with 3x damage (actually less than 3x since it'd take a slot that would otherwise be used for some other damage-boosting mod, but whatever) maybe was a bit too powerful, even that probably wouldn't be enough to change the meta anyway. Staticor, Pyrana Prime, Aktiletto Prime would be still be the most used guns, because they are not only effective, but also much more consistent then "needy" Knell. So, this indirect nerf to Knell wasn't 100% justified.

Second: Sure it's impossible for all mods to be BiS, but every mod should ideally have at least some niche. And for current version of Synth Charge there's none. And it's especially true since secondary weapons has pretty much the best mods of all gun categories — get your Hornet Strike, Barrel Diffusion, Lethal Torrent, 2 elementals and usually crit mods (Primed if possible) and you'll have only one slot left. Augur Pact or RoF mod would usually go there. Or riven if possible. Or Ice Storm / another elemental. With this competition there's simply no place for mods like current Synth Charge.

What should be done in my opinion: the mechanics itself should be reverted and this mod should be equippable (and should work obviously) on any secondary gun without exceptions — including Knell, launchers (Angstrum / Kulstar), Bronco, etc. And instead of mechanics the number of bonus damage should be tweaked for balance purposes. Maybe they should start with +100% damage instead of +200% and see how it would work. And work with that number from there — decreasing or increasing it depending on feedback and further testing.

Edited by AlienOvermind
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42 minutes ago, AlienOvermind said:

First point: Knell with 3x damage (actually less than 3x since it'd take a slot that would be used for some other damage-boosting mod, but whatever) maybe was a bit too powerful, even that probably wouldn't be enough to change the meta anyway.

Don't forget the point that in order to receive Knell's buff one should score a headshot and also keeping scoring headshots after, which can be tricky (depending on mods loadout) with extra damage in general due to one-shotting targets.

 

53 minutes ago, AlienOvermind said:

What should be done in my opinion: the mechanics itself should be reverted and this mod should be equippable (and should work obviously) on any secondary gun without exceptions — including Knell, launchers (Angstrum / Kulstar), Bronco, etc. And instead of mechanics the number of bonus damage should be tweaked for balance purposes. Maybe they should start with +100% damage instead of +200% and see how it would work. And work with that number from there — decreasing or increasing it depending on feedback and further testing.

Synth Charge reminds me of the Money Shot skill from Borderlands 2. Except that Money Shot is much better, even without exploits:

Quote

Money Shot: The last round fired from your magazine gains massive Bonus Damage (+80% / +160% / +240% / +320% / +400%). Guns with small magazine sizes receive a smaller bonus. This skill works with all weapon types.

 

* This skill does not work on single-shot weapons, Infinity pistols, rocket launchers, or E-tech Splatguns, including the Slow Hand.

* On Torgue and Maliwan weapons, and other weapons with bonus elemental damage, this skill only buffs the bullet impact damage, not the Explosive or Elemental splash damage.

* For weapons that consume multiple ammo per shot, the entire last shot benefits in full from Money Shot, but the magazine still counts towards the bonus normally. This effectively multiplies the effectiveness of Money Shot by that factor. Quad-barreled shotguns and weapons with the double-shot accessory especially benefit from this.

Could also make it so the less ammo you have in magazine the greater damage you receive, basically ramping your damage up with <50% of mag size. Unfortunately, it still would exclude Knell due to its mag size of 1, but it's still better than the current extra damage on final shot for guns with more than 6 rounds in.

 

Quick brainstorm regarding Secondary weapons and Synth Charge:

The list of Secondary weapons with rounds per mag:

Spoiler

Can't be used on

Borderline

Weapons that can benefit from SC (on DE's paper, I guess)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  1. Acrid: 15
  2. Afuris: 70
  3. Akbolto: 30
  4. Akbolto Prime: 40
  5. Akbronco: 4
  6. Akbronco Prime: 8
  7. Akjagara: 36
  8. Aklato: 30
  9. Aklex: 12
  10. Akmagnus: 16
  11. Aksomati: 70
  12. Akstiletto: 28
  13. Akstiletto Prime: 40
  14. Akvasto: 12
  15. Akzani: 100
  16. Angstrum: 3
  17. Arca Scisco: 36
  18. Atomos: 70
  19. Azima: 75
  20. Ballistica: 16
  21. Ballistica Prime: 32
  22. Bolto: 15
  23. Brakk: 5
  24. Bronco: 2
  25. Bronco Prime: 4
  26. Castanas: 2
  27. Cestra: 60
  28. Cycron: 40
  29. Despair: 10
  30. Detron: 5
  31. Dex Furis: 100
  32. Dual Cestras: 120
  33. Dual Toxocyst: 12 (I wonder if it works if you proc its buff with 1 remaining round)
  34. Embolist: 33
  35. Euphona Prime: 5
  36. Furis: 35
  37. Fusilai: 6
  38. Gammacor: 60
  39. Hikou: 20
  40. Hikou Prime: 26
  41. Hystrix: 15
  42. Knell: 1
  43. Kohmak: 40
  44. Kraken: 14
  45. Kulstar: 3
  46. Kunai: 10
  47. Lato: 15
  48. Lato Prime: 15
  49. Lato Vandal: 15
  50. Lex: 6
  51. Lex Prime: 8
  52. Magnus: 8
  53. Mara Detron: 8
  54. Marelok: 6
  55. Mk.I Furis: 35
  56. Mk.I Kunai: 10
  57. Nukor: 50
  58. Pandero: 8
  59. Pox: 4
  60. Prisma Angstrum: 3
  61. Prisma Twin Gremlins: 70
  62. Pyrana: 10
  63. Pyrana Prime: 12
  64. Rakta Ballistica: 20
  65. Sancti Castanas: 2
  66. Secura Dual Cestras: 120
  67. Seer: 8
  68. Sicarus: 15
  69. Sicarus Prime: 24
  70. Sonicor: 15
  71. Spectra: 60
  72. Spira: 10
  73. Spira Prime: 12
  74. Staticor: 45
  75. Stubba: 57
  76. Stug: 20
  77. Synoid Gammacor: 80
  78. Talons: 4
  79. Telos Akbolto: 30
  80. Twin Grakatas: 120
  81. Twin Gremlins: 30
  82. Twin Kohmak: 80
  83. Twin Rogga: 2
  84. Twin Vipers: 28
  85. Tysis: 11
  86. Vasto: 6
  87. Vasto Prime: 6
  88. Vaykor Marelok: 10
  89. Viper: 14
  90. Viper Wraith: 20
  91. Wraith Twin Vipers: 40
  92. Zakti: 3
  93. Zylok: 8

Out of the 93 listed weapons:

16 weapons that would benefit from Synth Charge the most can't even use the mod;

5 weapons are at the requirement's borderline of 6 rounds;

29 weapons which are optimal candidates for SC given their damage per shot, RoF (incl. burst mode) and mag size IF you don't have enough mods/Riven mods/Primed mods/Augments.

The rest 43 weapons have either too big magazines to consider wasting modslot for 3x damage on last shot, or have low damage per shot to begin with.

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On 2018-11-13 at 3:57 AM, Thundervision said:

Money Shot: The last round fired from your magazine gains massive Bonus Damage (+80% / +160% / +240% / +320% / +400%). Guns with small magazine sizes receive a smaller bonus. This skill works with all weapon types.

What if Synth Charge's bonus was proportional to the magazine size? "Final shot gets up to +10/20/30/40% damage for each other shot." would deal the same amount of damage for 6-shooters, only +40% for two-shot weapons (like Charged Chamber on Vectis Prime), and +0% damage for one-shots. No matter the magazine size, the overall mechanical benefit of this version approaches but never surpasses +40% damage on average.

Ideally I'd want large-magazine weapons to also benefit from this, but there would need to be diminishing returns (hence the "up to"). Someone could partially reload a large-magazine weapon with the Synth set bonus, allowing them their larger bonus more often, so the total multiplier would need something to curb it the same way combo multipliers don't increase linearly.

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I'm not sure if there's even a single weapon Synth Charge is a benefit over using another mod, esp taking status into account. Even a basic comparison to Primed Expel of 1.55x to Synth Charge's 3x on last shot with minimum 6 mag you're getting +55% damage output per mag with Primed Expel compared to +50% for Synth Charge. Maybe a Burst-fire weapon like Sicarus or Zylok but that's about it and I wouldn't drop my status weight for that anyways.

I've no idea why they nerfed that mod so quickly. It would have just made a few bad weapons less bad. Knell being the spotlight.

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Given the passive reloading feature on the set bonus, I think the idea is to empty your magazines and constantly swap back and forth between guns to achieve the bonus since it only partially refills the magazine. Overall magazine size is of a smaller concern in this scenario.

If this sounds insanely cumbersome and not-at-all fun, then you probably are a totally rational person.

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I too, would totally like to see this nerf reverted. Because as of now, I don't think I would ever use this mod. It's one thing to leave trash mods like [Warm Coat], [Intruder], ect in the game; but it's so much worse to nerf a functional unique and niche mod down to their level. 

Or it would be pretty kawaii if the mechanic changed to affect the first shot of a clip, so that it actually synergizes with it's reloading set effect.

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On 2019-01-13 at 4:07 PM, ArcKnight9202 said:

Given the passive reloading feature on the set bonus, I think the idea is to empty your magazines and constantly swap back and forth between guns to achieve the bonus since it only partially refills the magazine. Overall magazine size is of a smaller concern in this scenario.

If this sounds insanely cumbersome and not-at-all fun, then you probably are a totally rational person.

I mean the idea of some sort of build that rapidly bounces between weapons with charge/reflex and vigorous swap for big damage buffs doesn't sound like the worst idea in the world, but that's a lot of mod real estate that could be spent on more reliable damage buffs especially for a game that doesn't put a whole lot of value on single high damage shots (and you'd need to stack magazine size to make it work with rocket pistols which further devalues the whole idea)

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On 2018-11-13 at 2:27 AM, AlienOvermind said:

We have tons of useless or almost useless mods. Getting another one shouldn't be a big deal, right? But Synth Charge is different. Unlike things like Intruder that were useless from the very beginning, Synth Charge could be a good mod.

First point: Knell with 3x damage (actually less than 3x since it'd take a slot that would otherwise be used for some other damage-boosting mod, but whatever) maybe was a bit too powerful, even that probably wouldn't be enough to change the meta anyway. Staticor, Pyrana Prime, Aktiletto Prime would be still be the most used guns, because they are not only effective, but also much more consistent then "needy" Knell. So, this indirect nerf to Knell wasn't 100% justified.

Second: Sure it's impossible for all mods to be BiS, but every mod should ideally have at least some niche. And for current version of Synth Charge there's none. And it's especially true since secondary weapons has pretty much the best mods of all gun categories — get your Hornet Strike, Barrel Diffusion, Lethal Torrent, 2 elementals and usually crit mods (Primed if possible) and you'll have only one slot left. Augur Pact or RoF mod would usually go there. Or riven if possible. Or Ice Storm / another elemental. With this competition there's simply no place for mods like current Synth Charge.

What should be done in my opinion: the mechanics itself should be reverted and this mod should be equippable (and should work obviously) on any secondary gun without exceptions — including Knell, launchers (Angstrum / Kulstar), Bronco, etc. And instead of mechanics the number of bonus damage should be tweaked for balance purposes. Maybe they should start with +100% damage instead of +200% and see how it would work. And work with that number from there — decreasing or increasing it depending on feedback and further testing.

Just use dual toxicyst. 

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