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Nerf my guns but don't nerf the enemies!


Nitro747
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Orb Vallis was basically the only really challenging place where I could have some actual fun not just because enemies were immovable hyper armored one-shot killing machines but because they are mobile, varied and dealt decent amounts of damage. Now it almost looks like they are hitting us with toy guns instead of a god damned Opticor or Plasmor. Warframe is already easy enough, ESO and Arbitrations only provided artificial difficulty by adding a timer or invincibility drones, why can't a place like the Vallis be as challenging as it was during the launch?

"Oh, but newer players were complaining and..."

So they squad up? They grind to get better stuff and learn how to deal with difficult enemies? Do lower level missions? We all have 5 free revives + having an ally reviving us is infinite, dying in this game isn't that much of a big deal anyways.

Buff them again!

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You know you can nerf your weapons by yourself? Just use unmodded weapons with low dmg crit etc and you have your challenge. They nerfed it since it seems a majority of players said it was way to high and well thats how democracity works. Plus Orb Vallies isnt even this high of level, so insteat demanding this to be more difficulty, why not demanding that they do it with ESO and Arbitrations? Give them a dmg buff there. But this will also be most likely not liked by the majority.

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Isn't Venus the second planet now where you go when your are new? If it is so, than even new player groups can't defeat the enemies if the squad up. And they only have 4 revives per mission if they don't have an arcana, what you normaly don't have with mastery rank 5 or around that.

But Fortuna isnt complete here yet, we will get a bunch of updates with more stuff and heavyier enemies in the comming months, maybe already next month.

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Orb Vallis enemies cap at 125 anyways (136 if Eximus). It was nice having challenging enemies in a 1 hour run of farming for Toroid, but I can understand the frustration by other players as well. Constant enemy cc combined with their damage was far from challenging and more of just annoying. The changes they made are fine as they are, and I actually applaud them for their quick responses to feedback since the launch of Fortuna.

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8 hours ago, Royzen said:

Isn't Venus the second planet now where you go when your are new? If it is so, than even new player groups can't defeat the enemies if the squad up. And they only have 4 revives per mission if they don't have an arcana, what you normaly don't have with mastery rank 5 or around that.

But Fortuna isnt complete here yet, we will get a bunch of updates with more stuff and heavyier enemies in the comming months, maybe already next month.

This could be an argument if you couldn't easily select what sort of mission you want to sign in, from easiest to "hardest" or if you couldn't squad up with stronger people.

Edited by Nitro747
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Orb Vallis has infinite scaling with their new alert system(think GTA). So keep killing till you cant? There are plenty of mission types that provide challenge/bullet sponge/insane damage mobs. Go do arbitration for an hour. I went into the temple of profit for farming toroids and ended up dying to level 100 combas and raptors. A lot of them.

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vor 28 Minuten schrieb Nitro747:

This could be an argument if you couldn't easily select what sort of mission you want to sign in, from easiest to "hardest" or if you couldn't squad up with stronger people.

That doesn't matter at all, new players are overrun with a lot of information and a lot of things to do, an Venus is still in the Level Range of 3 - 18 like it or not, it is for low level.

Expect a heavy open world on Eris, there it will be more to your likes, but as a person who playes this game for a long time now, I can tell you, if you use weapons to kill your high end mobs, you are not nearly there what I call end game. I call endgame level 300+ Enemies. Sorry to burst your bubble, but weapon nerfs doesn't change the end game at all, only the early and mid game, the so called grind time.

Cheers

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9 hours ago, Nitro747 said:

"Oh, but newer players were complaining and..."

Newer players made their mistake more visible but were not the sole concern of DE's actions.

Before the hotfix, the level numbers on OV enemies were pointless. Their damage and CC abilities were well beyond what their level implied and the fix brought that back into line. You want challenge? Use the threat system. That's what it's there for.

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I thought this was covered by the level recommendation of Bounties.  If a new player is going into Level 40+ bounties, they deserve to get killed. 

Did I miss a patch notes or something saying they nerfed enemies?  Or is OP just asking for more difficulty?  I'm confused.  

Edited by AlMcFly
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Really not understanding the problem as WF allows you to mod your weapons or frame you make it as challenging as you want.  Example: If you want to sweat bullets and have some challenge to the game, spend about 3 hours on MOT using Titania, a latron, a kraken, a dethcube and speed holster.  Tells us how it works out.

Edited by (XB1)Thy Divinity
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14 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

Really not understanding the problem as WF allows you to mod your weapons or frame you make it as challenging as you want.  Examole: If you want to sweat bullets and have some challenge to the game, spend about 3 hours on MOT using Titania, a latron, a kraken, a dethcube and speed holster.  Tells us how it works out.

This is the worst non-argument I've been having the displeasure to read lately. Its akin to saying:
"I will make this surgery without anesthesia and right after running a marathon"

"I will climb a mountain while wearing a backpack that weights 95kg"

If you need to literally go out of your way and use the worst set possible and equip the weakest items in the game and then run a mission for hours just to "get challenge" enough then there is an OBVIOUS problem with the game design. And I'm not a bootlicker enough to tell other people to do the same just for the sake of it.

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20 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

Really not understanding the problem as WF allows you to mod your weapons or frame you make it as challenging as you want.  Examole: If you want to sweat bullets and have some challenge to the game, spend about 3 hours on MOT using Titania, a latron, a kraken, a dethcube and speed holster.  Tells us how it works out.

shooting bullet sponges and waiting 3 hours for enemies to get interesting is not what the fun is about and entering missions modless basically removes the modding part of the game.

There is no point to challenging enemies if you cant outsmart them

collorary:

If enemies are not challenging, you dont get to outsmart them.

Edited by -skimmer-
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24 minutes ago, Royzen said:

That doesn't matter at all, new players are overrun with a lot of information and a lot of things to do, an Venus is still in the Level Range of 3 - 18 like it or not, it is for low level.

Expect a heavy open world on Eris, there it will be more to your likes, but as a person who playes this game for a long time now, I can tell you, if you use weapons to kill your high end mobs, you are not nearly there what I call end game. I call endgame level 300+ Enemies. Sorry to burst your bubble, but weapon nerfs doesn't change the end game at all, only the early and mid game, the so called grind time.

Cheers

Venus is on the level range 3-18 and sortie 1 is in the level range 15-20. Pretty much the level range a new player will find. If its too hard for them, squad up or keep play the game until they get better. You are dismissing one problem by throwing it on the lap of another problem which is New Player Experience.

Also, where in the actual heck did you take the "end game" sort of talk? We are talking about how much damage the enemies in the Vallis deal, not how much of a no-lifer you are to consider "end game" forcing yourself to sit on Warframe for over 3 hours while cheesing the game out. We are talking about nerfing the ENEMIES' weapons, not ours.

R/wooooooooooooosh to yous mate

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Just now, Nitro747 said:

This is the worst non-argument I've been having the displeasure to read lately. Its akin to saying:
"I will make this surgery without anesthesia and right after running a marathon"

"I will climb a mountain while wearing a backpack that weights 95kg"

If you need to literally go out of your way and use the worst set possible and equip the weakest items in the game and then run a mission for hours just to "get challenge" enough then there is an OBVIOUS problem with the game design. And I'm not a bootlicker enough to tell other people to do the same just for the sake of it.

I wasn't aware my responses to this topic had to be catered to fit into the criteria of your viewing pleasure.  I wonder if you missed the part where I said example. You proposed a problem, I proposed a solution.  You may not like what I brought to the table, but the inverse could also be true.  You asked for a challenge, yet when one is suggested you have a go at me with this bootlicker nonsense.  

By the way, saying that new players are complaining by complaining yourself isn't exactly helping your disposition.

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Just now, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

 You proposed a problem, I proposed a solution.  .

I proposed a complaint and you proposed stripping the game out of one of its most important core aspects for the sake of creating some non-existent, unrelated challenge by restricting player's arsenals and an unintelligent witty response with a forced challenge.

Don't complain if people pointed out the stupidity of a post when it is right there.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb Nitro747:

Venus is on the level range 3-18 and sortie 1 is in the level range 15-20. Pretty much the level range a new player will find. If its too hard for them, squad up or keep play the game until they get better. You are dismissing one problem by throwing it on the lap of another problem which is New Player Experience.

Also, where in the actual heck did you take the "end game" sort of talk? We are talking about how much damage the enemies in the Vallis deal, not how much of a no-lifer you are to consider "end game" forcing yourself to sit on Warframe for over 3 hours while cheesing the game out. We are talking about nerfing the ENEMIES' weapons, not ours.

R/wooooooooooooosh to yous mate

Do you remember what you had to do as a new player? Get Mods, get Weapons, get Mods leveled up, get a bunch of ressources you didn't even know where to get from. And Sortie 1 doesn't bring you much if you cant do the hole one. So you tell the new player, who keep this game alive, more or less, that they don't matter. If you want heavy enemies, than go where they are and don't try to ruin the game for the rest of us. I tryed to explain it to you but somehow you can't see the point right in front of you.

And tell me, where did you get it from, that i am a no-lifer? That would be interessting, i think you got the wrong guy. I'm working my 40 to 50 hours shift peer week and still have the time to play this beautiful game.

vor 1 Minute schrieb (XB1)Thy Divinity:

I wasn't aware my responses to this topic had to be catered to fit into the criteria of your viewing pleasure.  I wonder if you missed the part where I said example. You proposed a problem, I proposed a solution.  You may not like what I brought to the table, but the inverse could also be true.  You asked for a challenge, yet when one is suggested you have a go at me with this bootlicker nonsense.  

By the way, saying that new players are complaining by complaining yourself isn't exactly helping your disposition.

You are absoluty right.

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I answered this to people saying, "just nerf yourself to have a challenge" in another thread:

Zitat

Anyway... i think its really funny that whenever people want a challenge those to answers appear:

- Warframe is about collecting stuff (i partially agree, but that shouldnt be everything WF is about)

- You want a challenge? Just dont use anything of what you have collected in Warframe

 

Yes, there should be some sort of challenge that even is a challenge if you use the stuff you collect in Warframe (Frames, Weapons, Mods), because otherwise their is no incentive to even collect that stuff if you dont need it for anything. Why should i bother farming for endo to max out some Primed Mods if it doesnt even matter if i have them equipped or even better, i am not allowed to use them if i want some sort of engaging combat?

 

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3 minutes ago, Nitro747 said:

I proposed a complaint and you proposed stripping the game out of one of its most important core aspects for the sake of creating some non-existent, unrelated challenge by restricting player's arsenals and an unintelligent witty response with a forced challenge.

Don't complain if people pointed out the stupidity of a post when it is right there.

Of course you'll receive a witty response to this thread.  Did you even think about what you were complaining about (by your own admission) before you posted?  And you expect to be taken serious?

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vor 5 Minuten schrieb DreisterDino:

I answered this to people saying, "just nerf yourself to have a challenge" in another thread:

 

Well the interessting part is, he claims that they shall nerf his weapons, but would not like to nerf his own guns.

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4 minutes ago, Royzen said:

And tell me, where did you get it from, that i am a no-lifer? That would be interessting, i think you got the wrong guy. I'm working my 40 to 50 hours shift peer week and still have the time to play this beautiful game.

"Sorry to burst your bubble (fedora smile) but ENDGAME for ME is level 300+ enemies". Yeah, that pretty much tells me you enjoy sitting for 3 hours in a survival mission just to call yourself the king of challenge and drop it around in the forums as in a weird flex to validate your weird points.

6 minutes ago, Royzen said:

So you tell the new player, who keep this game alive, more or less, that they don't matter.

That doesn't even make any sense whatsoever. Seriously, what is the correlation between making enemies in the vallis deal the damage they used to deal initially as "telling all new players they don't matter"? õ_o

7 minutes ago, Royzen said:

If you want heavy enemies, than go where they are and don't try to ruin the game for the rest of us. I tryed to explain it to you but somehow you can't see the point right in front of you.

 

Yes, which is why I chose Bounty lvl 5 instead of bounties lvl 1 or 2, which are meant for newer players. Problem is that now Bounty lvl 5 enemies are using toy guns instead of Plasmors and Opticors, capiche?

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Just now, Miser_able said:

It's the second planet. There aren't any lower level missions. 

It's stupid to expect new players to jump from killing lvl 4 enemies to lvl 20 enemies that hit like a lvl 60.

The plains were on the first planet. Your point is...

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