Nerf my guns but don't nerf the enemies!

[CoolDudeMcCool]

8 minutes ago, SenariousNex said:

Simple solution: Arbitration Bounties.

Simpler solution: threat levels already exist, just make them more difficult.

[Valgaarv]

Le 13/11/2018 à 08:53, Tengarnos a dit :

You know you can nerf your weapons by yourself? Just use unmodded weapons

Then whats the point of building and farming things to be stronger??

[SenariousNex]

15 minutes ago, CoolDudeMcCool said:

Simpler solution: threat levels already exist, just make them more difficult.

Simplerer solution: Let us set our own difficulty, scale drop rates with difficulty. Similar to burn acetic mechanic from dark souls 2.

[LupisV0lk]

Simple solution. DE said there was an issue, therefore there WAS an issue.

Orb Vallis Enemy Changes:
Orb Vallis mission and Vox Solaris quest data showed that certain Terra enemy types were not on par with other Corpus enemies, causing an unintentional difficulty spike, especially noticed with lower level players. The following Terra enemies have received damage reductions to improve the balance between Orb Vallis enemies:

• Lowered Terra Plasmor Crewman base damage from 30 to 25.
• Lowered Terra Raptor SX base damage from 30 to 25 and base area damage from 75 to 40.
• Lowered Terra Embattor MOA bounce mine damage from 150 to 75.
• Lowered Terra Sniper Crewman base damage from 60 to 45.
• Lowered Terra Overtaker base damage from 120 to 60 and area damage from 50 to 25.
• Lowered Terra Jailer area damage from 50 to 20.

[CoolDudeMcCool]

20 minutes ago, Valgaarv said:

Then whats the point of building and farming things to be stronger??

I mean, you decide why you grind for better stuff. Personally, I'm at the point where I still build things because they're cool, not because they're stronger than what I have.

 

[Nitro747]

14 minutes ago, LupisV0lk said:

Simple solution. DE said there was an issue, therefore there WAS an issue.

Orb Vallis Enemy Changes:
Orb Vallis mission and Vox Solaris quest data showed that certain Terra enemy types were not on par with other Corpus enemies, causing an unintentional difficulty spike, especially noticed with lower level players. The following Terra enemies have received damage reductions to improve the balance between Orb Vallis enemies:

• Lowered Terra Plasmor Crewman base damage from 30 to 25.
• Lowered Terra Raptor SX base damage from 30 to 25 and base area damage from 75 to 40.
• Lowered Terra Embattor MOA bounce mine damage from 150 to 75.
• Lowered Terra Sniper Crewman base damage from 60 to 45.
• Lowered Terra Overtaker base damage from 120 to 60 and area damage from 50 to 25.
• Lowered Terra Jailer area damage from 50 to 20.

yeah, I almost forgot, everything DE says and does is true, right, and has a "good reason" behind it. EVERYTHING. How could I forget that

Special note to the obvious "especially noticed with lower level players".

[LupisV0lk]

1 minute ago, Nitro747 said:

yeah, I almost forgot, everything DE says and does is true, right, and has a "good reason" behind it. EVERYTHING. How could I forget that

Special note to the obvious "especially noticed with lower level players".

If the content droughters can use that argument, i'll use it here to shut your insanity down.

[CoolDudeMcCool]

2 minutes ago, Nitro747 said:

yeah, I almost forgot, everything DE says and does is true, right, and has a "good reason" behind it. EVERYTHING. How could I forget that

Special note to the obvious "especially noticed with lower level players".

And special note to the obvious "especially" which doesn't mean exclusively. They did the right thing. They could make it better by making threat levels more challenging too, but they did the right thing.

[Nitro747]

Just now, LupisV0lk said:

If the content droughters can use that argument, i'll use it here to shut your insanity down.

What the heck even is a "content droughter"?

Oh, wait, you are part of that gang that SWEARS that there was no content drought, even though ALL devs said LIVE ON STREAM there was a content drought?

[LupisV0lk]

Just now, Nitro747 said:

What the heck even is a "content droughter"?

Oh, wait, you are part of that gang that SWEARS that there was no content drought, even though ALL devs said LIVE ON STREAM there was a content drought?

Well when people start hand waving away two thirds of the game to claim there was a drought. (aka: weapons and frames doesn't equate to content when in fact they do) then yeah i'll doubt that there ever truly was a drought. The devs being bullied into saying there was one didn't help them at all.

[Nitro747]

3 minutes ago, CoolDudeMcCool said:

And special note to the obvious "especially" which doesn't mean exclusively. They did the right thing. They could make it better by making threat levels more challenging too, but they did the right thing.

I think that they had the right intention but did the wrong thing. They just halved enemy damage and that's it. No regard to a big chunk of players who were surprised and enjoying the challenge.

It's like if they "fixed" the meme strike spam by just nerfing the mod, instead of addressing melee weapons ignoring walls or even coming up with melee 3.0.

[Nitro747]

2 minutes ago, LupisV0lk said:

Well when people start hand waving away two thirds of the game to claim there was a drought. (aka: weapons and frames doesn't equate to content when in fact they do) then yeah i'll doubt that there ever truly was a drought. The devs being bullied into saying there was one didn't help them at all.

Oooh, right, they were all held hostage by an armed group and forced to say that live on stream. This is seriously the most lunatic thing I've read so far on these forums, good job sir/lady/alien.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

The sheer amount of strawman and personal attacks in this thread are staggering

[CoolDudeMcCool]

There was content, but stuff like new weapons and frames is mostly more of the same, Prime stuff especially. 

17 minutes ago, Nitro747 said:

I think that they had the right intention but did the wrong thing. They just halved enemy damage and that's it. No regard to a big chunk of players who were surprised and enjoying the challenge.

It's like if they "fixed" the meme strike spam by just nerfing the mod, instead of addressing melee weapons ignoring walls or even coming up with melee 3.0.

I don't really think there's a better way to change things than what they did do to make the entry level content newbie friendly. At the very least, new players should be able to complete the quest and manage first tier bounties(though if they can't handle normal level 15 or so enemies, then maaaaybe they shouldn't be on Fortuna yet). Past that, I still think the solution should be something to do with threat levels, and not changing inherent scaling or anything.

[Lost_Cartographer]

11 hours ago, Melbourne404 said:

Let's talk about your easy setting ananlogy. Orb Vallis was originally difficult. But since new players jumped right in and couldn't handle it, DE reverted it to easy setting. What you're saying is that we should just delete our upgrades and pretend that the game is still on the difficult setting, when in fact, we are still in the easy setting. So basically we should revert ourselves to new-player levels of power so we can be challenged. By that logic, no game should have a setting beyond easy when experienced players can just delete their upgrades and play with new-player levels of power again. It's not hard for new players to find better weapons and mods, it's hard for them to find better weapons and mods quickly. It's even more laughably easy for new players to simply ignore Orb Vallis and go back when they are better at the game. This whole issue is because new guys jumped right into difficult territory and couldn't handle it, so now people like you are saying we should just keep things easy and pretend that it's tough by handicapping ourselves. The problem is, the new players don't have to play it. It's not a part of normal star chart progress. It's like changing a marathon to a race around a soccer field, just a because a few fat kids at the local school couldn't handle it. And actual athletes are told to just drag a rock behind them and pretend that it's the same thing.

Or, and hear me out here.... DE can ignore you (hell, US) and cater to the guys with still dozens of syandanas they might buy.  Or rather just to the majority of players that aren't try-harding with meta builds.

No, this isn't like deleting your upgrades to make a game on easy mode harder, THIS IS AN ONLINE GAME WITH NO HARD DIFFICULTY SETTING.  Instead of the game automatically scaling you down ala Guild Wars 2, you have the option to do it yourself.  You refuse to, that's on you.  DE gains nothing from players having to "ignore content because they're not ready."  Much of the content is placed well enough that new modes are revealed to the player roughly when they should be ready to dip their toes.

Stop acting like a diva, start realizing you have tools for making the enemy kill you faster that you can utilize right now, but heaven forbid you should actually increase your own difficulty, because the thought of weakening yourself to find the very challenge you seek is just an unbearable thought.

 

 

Your ego - not anyone else's concern.  These nerfs were based on complaints and statistics only DE is privy to.  Get over it.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Littleman88

[CoolDudeMcCool]

Normally I can understand not wanting to weaken yourself to have a challenge, and personally I don't believe that self-nerfing is the best option to give people a challenge, but when what people want is just to make the enemies deal more damage, I can't help but wonder why they can't just take off an armor mod or something.

[MORFIN26]

I don't have fun like i had before. I really didn't like these changes. I get bored easily when there is less challenge i didn't even use mods like vitality before so i can't nerf myself too.

[Atsia]

If the intended enemy level and thus the corresponding damage was A, but enemies were instead doing damage corresponding to a level B, why wouldn't they bring the damage down to what they should be doing?

[kinrest]

15 hours ago, oSPoJellyz said:

With that being said, I do agree on some point that the level of enemies in Orbs Vallis just doesn’t correlate to its actual power. Simple solution, just increase the visual level of the enemies. The new players will know to stay away from high level bounties, and people who wanted challenges can be happy.

 

12 hours ago, lennieplop60 said:

they were nerfed because the stats were inconsistent with other corpus enemies, not because they were "too hard"

Personally, I kind of want the open worlds to be for more advanced players. I kind of wanted them to be accessible only after you've completed the star chart. Have POE and Fortuna be mid-tier levels, and then have later open worlds increase in difficulty. However, DE's objective for these open worlds was to try something new and unexpected, and to bring in new players. Doesn't make sense to go through the trouble of developing and advertising these new open worlds if the new players can't access them right away. (However, I think new players should complete the star chart first and get a handle on the game's mechanics before being overwhelmed with the open worlds.)

Since DE made the open worlds accessible to new players right away, they have to make the damage dealt by enemies be appropriate for their level. In my ideal world, DE would simply increase the level of the enemies but keep the same damage output pre-hotfix. But I don't make the rules here.

My opinion on the self-handicapping to get a challenge: Smh. Why am I spending all this time grinding for mods, forma-ing my frames and weapons, leveling them multiple times over, only to not use them??? I might as well just stick with my level 10 volt and braton then to get a challenge. The game ENCOURAGES acquiring new tools of destruction, and making them really good! I want to feel like I am the best I can be (and I mean the "best" to your personal standard, not necessarily min-maxing meta standard), and still feel like I'm being put through a challenge. If you want to handicap yourself, go ahead, you do you! But it just feels so counter-intuitive to me, and I don't want to not use the stuff I've worked hard for.

Regardless, the "nerf" will remain. Hopefully, there will be arbitration bounties in the future to satiate those who crave something harder than the top-tier bounties.

[Nitro747]

2 hours ago, Littleman88 said:

Or, and hear me out here.... DE can ignore you (hell, US) and cater to the guys with still dozens of syandanas they might buy.  Or rather just to the majority of players that aren't try-harding with meta builds.

No, this isn't like deleting your upgrades to make a game on easy mode harder, THIS IS AN ONLINE GAME WITH NO HARD DIFFICULTY SETTING.  Instead of the game automatically scaling you down ala Guild Wars 2, you have the option to do it yourself.  You refuse to, that's on you.  DE gains nothing from players having to "ignore content because they're not ready."  Much of the content is placed well enough that new modes are revealed to the player roughly when they should be ready to dip their toes.

Stop acting like a diva, start realizing you have tools for making the enemy kill you faster that you can utilize right now, but heaven forbid you should actually increase your own difficulty, because the thought of weakening yourself to find the very challenge you seek is just an unbearable thought.

It's really funny how you keep hitting the same note over and over again of "you have the toold to make the game harder" when you don't even know what tools people who were enjoying the challenge were using. It could be a double Arcane Grace Inaros + Vazarin tank build. It could be a Banshee which is a frame that doesnt matter how many survivability mods you add, she'll always  die very, very fast.

You keep hitting a very stupid argument of "if players want a challenge they should chop off their arms and play with their feet" when you don't even know what sort of build they are using or even if they use "meta builds" at all.

It's also really mind boggling to see how someone who played videogames for so long not understand simple concepts as to how challenge is made up in games. If a game needs to have players to literally nerf themselves just to have that spice, then there is at the very, very least something very wrong with this game.

It's also funny when you contradict yourself with "Much of the content is placed well enough that new modes are revealed to the player roughly when they should be ready to dip their toes." while there are tier 1 bounties, Fortuna isn't required AT ALL to progress through the game, and Rhino is available literally a couple nodes away from Fortuna.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Nitro747

[Spectre-8]

Plot twist : The nerf isn't in game yet but people are freaking out  🤣

DE " Warframe citizens this was just a test , god damn you QQ too much "

[Vox_Preliator]

1 hour ago, Nitro747 said:

It's really funny how you keep hitting the same note over and over again

Seriously, I could apply this exact line to nigh every single one of your posts.

You still haven't refuted anything.  In any context.  You just keep claiming that everyone who disagrees with you's opinion/argument/statement are wrong, or don't count, or are stupid, and leave it at that, sometimes throwing in a strawman or two for good measure.  And it just keeps happening thread after thread after thread.

[Gamma745]

13 hours ago, DreisterDino said:

...

I feel like have said it already like 20 times now, nobody wants fortuna to be "Endgame".

Not one of the people which arent happy with this change even used that term.

So could you all plz stop acting like we want some "mr26 1000hours+ veteran only area"?

 

You say that they should be able to do the first or second bounty....

Funny thing is, all we ask for right now is that ONLY Bounty Stage 5 will be hard (and i added "no special rewards on Stage 5, all from there available at Stage 4 aswell") so everyone can get everything even if they cant or dont want to fight stronger enemies. Or what i also suggested like 20 times now, make it so that we can select the difficulty before starting the bountys (easy=like it is now / hard=like it was before patch) while there are NO differences in the rewards. Everybody can play what he likes, no one has a disadvantage in any way.

 

Is it really so hard to understand what we ask for?

Stop making up imagery requests and argue against them, because those request you argue against dont even exist.

Tell that to him:

Nerf my guns but don't nerf the enemies!

On 2018-11-13 at 6:43 PM, Nitro747 said:

Orb Vallis was basically the only really challenging place where I could have some actual fun not just because enemies were immovable hyper armored one-shot killing machines but because they are mobile, varied and dealt decent amounts of damage. Now it almost looks like they are hitting us with toy guns instead of a god damned Opticor or Plasmor. Warframe is already easy enough, ESO and Arbitrations only provided artificial difficulty by adding a timer or invincibility drones, why can't a place like the Vallis be as challenging as it was during the launch?

"Oh, but newer players were complaining and..."

So they squad up? They grind to get better stuff and learn how to deal with difficult enemies? Do lower level missions? We all have 5 free revives + having an ally reviving us is infinite, dying in this game isn't that much of a big deal anyways.

Buff them again!

The OP itself asked for enemies to be harder than their intended level. That's what people are reacting to. You may not propose it DreisterDino, but OP is. Do you want convince him of your alternative?

[Nitro747]

15 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

Seriously, I could apply this exact line to nigh every single one of your posts.

You still haven't refuted anything.  In any context.  You just keep claiming that everyone who disagrees with you's opinion/argument/statement are wrong, or don't count, or are stupid, and leave it at that, sometimes throwing in a strawman or two for good measure.  And it just keeps happening thread after thread after thread.

Read the posts kid. People who disagree with non idiotic arguments of "you can nerf yourself" had decent responses. If this keeps happening thread after thread with you or anyone using this stupid joke of response, then maybe, just MAYBE there is a problem with the argument in itself?

Worst of all, you intentionally don't address the issue while claiming to be providing an innocent honest answer.

Asking people to nerf themselves doesn't address or proposes to solve in any way the problem: that there is a lack of challenge in the game/they literally halved a nice portion of the difficulty because noobs were complaining too much.

[Atsia]

23 minutes ago, Nitro747 said:

Asking people to nerf themselves doesn't address or proposes to solve in any way the problem: that there is a lack of challenge in the game/they literally halved a nice portion of the difficulty because noobs were complaining too much.

And the actual issue is that they WERE doing far more damage than they should've been doing, even to higher level players. If the damage output is supposed to be for a level 10 mook, but they're instead doing damage equivalent to a level 40, why wouldn't they bring it down to be consistent?