Mechanical Weapons need help (Help save the robot chickens!)

[NeuralMachine]

With the introduction of MOA's I was hoping (I am sure I am not alone :(!) for a more independent autonomous pet to assist me. I like robot chicken(s). It's a good TV show. 

But robot chickens here... they don't quite have the same spicy "oomph" as Robot Chicken. I'll just say it: at present even with riven mods I am underwhelmed (I've dumped at this point THOUSANDS of platinum into these riven mods. That's not a bragging point. I know we will have another method to get sentinel rivens yet but I wanted "amazing roll mods" to try and make my MOA a beast. I know it's a "waste of plat".). I'm not happy with the damage numbers I am getting from ANY of these weapons that's EVEN WITH SOLID RIVEN MODS ON A FEW OF THESE WEAPONS.

I want to state: I LOVE this game ❤️ I love moas ❤️ I love the customizations we have :D! I am a warframe fan through and through! But I think that we can do better on mechanical weapons ❤️ So this isn't meant as me trying to offend anyone or be edgy. I just think we can do better!

And with Robot Chickens that even dance I think it's a perfect time to talk about this elephant in the room. (YOU BET I SPENT PLAT ON THE SENSITIVE MOA! That dance is TOO CUTE!)

I want to be clear: I never expected to equip an automated tigris prime onto my moa. But when one literally dumps 8 forma into a mechanical weapon and puts in a really good riven that synergizes with the weapon... I honestly expected more. Not the Earth and the Sun and the Stars combined, but I did expect... something less... really... really bad.

Even in the best case scenarios, like a level 80 Arid Lancer that has been BOUND IN PLACE with me playing Harrow takes like ~15 seconds for my BEST weapon to KO atm. Yes I put corrosive on the sweeper prime. (I leave on the AI because apparently turning it off increases damage I heard?). AND the enemy was close to my MOA. We aren't talking about me pilot testing sweeper prime in Orb Vallis.

That's horrible with 8 or so forma and an ideal riven. That's horrible! I just don't get a good feeling or sense of progression with how the weapons are right now. 

Like for comparison I am doing almost as much damage with an UNRANKED Magnus that has NO potato and only Hornet Strike and Barrel Diffusion (A secondary weapon) to an Arid lancer. So 2 mods that aren't even corrosive and I'm doing more? 

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Going through each weapon. I'll order them from the least disappointing to the literal "why would you even bother equipping it?"
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1: Primed Sweeper might be "fine" at best but it's still pretty bad even when decked out with a solid riven. Worth the 8 forma? (Got a better riven and had to change polarities) No. It's range is stubby and even at close range it takes a bunch of shots to take down a target even with ideal damage type modded into it.

But again, you need to have your MOA actually be fairly close to the target. Which on most frames even with link-health is like asking it to be punched in the face. Poor robot chicken.

2: Deth machine rifle with a riven is like gently caressing the enemy with a feather duster. It can eventually, with a riven increasing fire rate even further and damage, take down a target. But overall it's still a featherduster. You just so happen to kill the enemy out of boredom from smacking it with a feather duster. Oddly enough I'd say a crit chance build might be slightly good on it, because a ton of shots fired with a ~25% crit chance isn't too horrible.

Until you realize having a sponge lightly tossed at you "critting' you is as underwhelming as it sounds...

And yes these shots can still miss. But having a fire rate of like 20 or so shots a second manages to have some actually land.

3: Vulklok even with it's abysmal fire rate can actually still miss targets. Even with reload mods it's just abhorrent. Against corpus targets WITH a riven giving +crit chance and +damage AND with radiation damage it's sort of gimmicky on corpus maps. Like WITH a riven with maximized stats AND the ideal damage type it still can't one shot? With like 3 seconds per shot between? Really? 

It also doesn't even shoot people in the balls anymore like Shy's video. So it isn't even good for the memes. At least seeing it shoot their balls can be funny. 

4: Artax is best used as a condition overload condition. That's about it's maximal extent of use. It's abysmal on it's own.

5: Primed Lazer rifle is literally one of the most disappointing weapons in the game as you literally see  it fire multiple little projectiles that can literally shoot ALL AROUND the enemy. The accuracy of this weapon is listed as 100. 

That is an utter lie. With a 15% critical chance I actually had hopes for this weapon.

Had.

6: Multron.

The slightly faster firing younger brother of the primed lazer rifle. Boasting a not-bad crit chance of 12.5%. (With machine weapondry we set our standards very low.)

It still misses. It's just faster at firing.

Oh but at least it is honest and lists it's accuracy as literally "18.2". 

That actually makes sense with what I've seen. 18.2% accuracy. 

6: Stinger. What's the point? Oh yes, toxic damage.

But with a 5% status chance base and even with fire rate mods (no fire rate riven) this manages to shoot 8 shots a second. Maybe it's good at procing status chance. But we already have artax.

7: Burst Lazer. Again I really don't see why to run this weapon unless you enjoy seeing missed shots.

Oh, but even better than "Primed Lazer Rifle" and "Multron" this beast has a 2.5% critical chance rate a fire rate of 1.61 and a status chance of 2.0%.

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The new weapons... more does not mean more actual options (Other than Cryotra?)

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For needing to be the absolute highest rank in Fortuna standing to even unlock the option to buy these weapons for 10k standing... to even need MR 14 to even equip Vulcax... I just... I'm not really excited at all about these weapons. 

I feel like we've just got "more of the bad" here. I can't even say more of the same because Vulcax is simply a worse Vulklok that can't even have a riven.

Vulcax - Acc: 100 Charge Rate: 1 CC: 20% CM: 2.5x FR: 1 Mag: 1 Noise: Alarming PT: 1m Reload: 6 Status: 10% Trigger: Charge DMG: 35 Heat

-> So Vulcax is just a worse Vulklok from what I'm seeing here. Less crit chance. Same crit modifier. No riven. Reload is 6 seconds (and has less options than Vulklok to reload). This isn't an option and can't compete with a Vulklok with a riven. Even the Vulklok has a base damage of 85 electricity. This has a base damage of 35 heat. This is by far worse.  Like there's no 2 ways about saying it. This is our MR 14 ULTIMATE weapon for our MOA? It really makes me genuinely feel a bit sad. 

Tazicor - Acc: 25 CC: 2% CM: 1.5x FR: 8.33 Mag: 4 Noise: Alarming Reload: 2.5 Status: 15% Trigger: Auto DMG: 6 Electricity

-> I don't even know why this was added. Why? I respectfully don't get it. 

Cryotra - Acc: 12.5 CC: 5% CM: 2x FR: 1 Mag: 80 Noise: Alarming Reload: 4 Status: 35% Trigger: Held DMG: 10 Cold

-> Better artax! 35% status is pretty good. Also double cold damage. I don't know why Accuracy is 12.5? I haven't been able to try it out. But this looks promising with the 35% status. I don't understand the accuracy thing, but whatever. It seems like a fantastic status dispenser. Want radiation? Want corrosive? Want viral? I think this is the most promising of the new weapons.

Source for info (credits where they are due!): https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/9wg0gr/anyone_have_details_on_the_new_moa_weapons_like/e9kem9n/?context=3

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In summary I wanted to say I LOVE THIS GAME. I LOVE DANCING ROBOT CHICKENS! THEY ARE GREAT AND WONDERFUL! THEY ARE AMAZING! I want to use my little robot chicken everywhere!

We can do so much better here and I hope that we do :D!

FOR THE ROBOT CHICKENS :D!

Edited November 13, 2018 by NeuralMachine

[KirukaChan]

Since DE gave a balance pass to our primaries and secondaries (which I can never express enough gratitude for), maybe these chicken weapons could be done in a similar fashion? Please, DE?

[peterc3]

26 minutes ago, NeuralMachine said:

I want to be clear: I never expected to equip an automated tigris prime onto my moa.

Their purpose is to add to your damage, not play the game for you. While you say you don't want an automated Tigris P...

29 minutes ago, NeuralMachine said:

Even in the best case scenarios, like a level 80 Arid Lancer that has been BOUND IN PLACE with me playing Harrow takes like ~15 seconds for my BEST weapon to KO atm.

Your argument is the companion's weapon isn't outright killing an enemy for you.

Further you speak of Rivens in a post about weapon balance. Red flag for me.

[Chronometria]

Fair points OP - I run a helios prime and the deconstructor prime gets kills and does some significant damage to multiple enemies. Every time I have pulled out another sentinel I am left wondering why their weapons are so pathetic. I have sat and watched wyrm prime, for example, pew pew away for minutes and not actually hit anything that isn't standing still and the less said about the deathcube the better. Now that these weapons are going onto moas, they are going to have to compare to a kubro or kavat and with the recent mods for those, like the new elemental bites, they are killers of men. Moas need to be "ranged kubro" basically and at the moment they are more like sentinels that are less effective and more likely to get themselves killed or lost behind a wall somewhere.

Their only saving grace is that they have some very nice mods - though the hacking one appears not to work, which really deserves some DE attention.

Edited November 17, 2018 by Chronometria

[HellVOps]

+1 to deconstructor prime, where are you? why I cant equip you...

DE needs to give a very good pass on sentinel weapons as have been pointed out by some, they are lackluster, sometimes not even a riven can help them(And we can't even get more of those since they were removed from riven drop table)

Edited November 17, 2018 by HellVOps

[-Afterman-]

I want a robot chicken that can use the carrier mod. That would be my go to chicken for sure.

 

Also it would be nice if the chickens got a dps boost it would be awesome if the attack moa could kill things above rank 1

Edited November 17, 2018 by afterman85

[trst]

They're not meant to be outright killing enemies for you, they're meant to assist you in killing enemies amongst all sorts of other abilities.

I mean just consider the Dethcube mod Energy Generator or the new mod Synth Deconstruct; they both rely on assisting kills and only damaging enemies, not killing them. No Sentinel, or even beast/companion mod, ask then to kill an enemy for it to work.

[aivadarker]

bought the vulcax today and that thing need ALOT of love... i just went though a 10 wave defense and it got literally 0 affinity as it never managed to hit anything. i then put it on a sentinal with no ability mods and the vulcax with as much damage as i can get it with no fire rate mods (not maxed but as a mr 26) and it needed 3 shots to kill even the weakest enemy on adaro.... not only that.. with this setup you were lucky if it even fired 1 time every 10 sec.. iam not sure if this is a sentinal ai bug or bugged numbers but that is alot worse then what the numbers show... 

as it is now i could 6 forma every other slot in the timespan it would take to even get it to rank 30, as this thing may just be the worst weapon in the entire game.

[Zsword]

I was gonna ask if anyone had taken the time to get the new weapons yet, as they require max rank, some extra stnading, and whatever crafting costs they have... So far we have one vote that the MOA Opticor is bad apperantly.

[CaptainMinty]

Last time a certain sentinel weapon was good, it kinda played the game for us. I remember hopping into a defense with three other guys, and all they did was stand on the defense target and let the Vulklok shred entire waves on its own. Their weapons shouldn't be good because if they get good, then it promotes lazier gameplay. If a moa or a sentinel can deal with starchart enemies, then why even bother? I say instead of working on Sentinel weapons, instead focus on the precepts and make them useful. Vaporize really needs a hand. It should instant kill a target, especially seeing as it sits on such a long CD as is. Sure, there should be exceptions to that like a juggernaut or boss. However, I still see little reason to use any other Sentinel than Helios or Carrier still, as they offer far more than the others. Carrier is free ammo, which pleases my Prisma Gorgon greatly. Helios has the only good sentinel weapon, and has the, "I really don't want to have to scan literally everything, please something save me" precept. 

Really, the issue with sentinel weapons is that they shouldn't be for damage, but for status delivery. If anything, they're just a supplement. Sure, stronger Sentinel weapons would be nice, but instead the powerhouses of companions should be Kubrows. Doggies should be the ones to hit like trucks, Dishing out pain and punishment to foes. But that is a whole other discussion about their AI and damage, as well as survivability.

[AphProxys]

Vulcax is awful even for lvling up MR , such a shame, the range of it is so small, i mean...  we can use [firestorm[ but cant use [sinister reach] why? and very often like 50¨% it does 0 dmg  or is just a miss - sometimes it does magnetic  dmg, even when the base dmg is ''fire''. -.... Vulcax is something wrong in this game, something that has a cool concecpt but it lacks in everything even for assists kills or MR lvling.
Well, thats my opinion about it.
Btw moas should use [assault mode] mod too , it would be nice....

Edited November 22, 2018 by AphProxys