Fortuna Enemy Nerf?

[Falconer777]

57 минут назад, Oreades сказал:

There is functionally no mechanical difference between DE cranking up the enemy numbers and us as players cranking down our damage output.

[Firetempest]

God thats a lot of quotes for my original post. and all the ones against totally glossed over the solution of just offering a higher level bounty as the only thing that changed was the base level damage to bring them in line with similar levels all other levels scale on. Fight for elite or nightmare bounties, not distorting damage levels that don't coincide with the rest of the game. People are just looking for a fight. Oh and I still hate Rio's content. ahhahah.

[Spectre-8]

3 minutes ago, Firetempest said:

 Rio's

content

 🤣

[Oreades]

24 minutes ago, zetheros1 said:

I think the best solution is to have the introductory Fortuna quests scale to the player's mastery rank. That removes the 'shock' factor of lower level players getting gibbed on exiting the gate, and once the player is able to queue for bounties, they can choose what level of difficulty the they feel most comfortable in.

The long standing problem with Warframe is that it has a bunch of disjointed systems that mean absolutely nothing on their own and MR is one of them. So you really can't scale things based on MR, it needs to be based on a bunch of additional factors and that is part of the cluster hek that is the reason Warframe has never gotten true scaling.

Similarly to the same reason why people have trouble initially wrapping their heads around the fact that "My Warframe is level 10, my weapon is levle 10, why do level 10 enemies keep melting my face?" 

There is just no one system where you can definitively say "this is the point for which we can assign difficulty scaling" 

[Spectre-8]

7 minutes ago, Oreades said:

There is just no one system where you can definitively say "this is the point for which we can assign difficulty scaling" 

That's the whole point , because Warframe is a casual game .

[kingvaldemir]

5 hours ago, DreisterDino said:

Thats why i made my recent suggestion which doesnt work against this at all:

Quote

I would be happy if they let me chose before starting bountys that i want the "completly overpowered Corpus that shred each Frame to pieces in a heartbeat"  that we had before the hotfix. Then i get matched with only people that have chosen the same option. Everyone who doesnt like it can chose the new enemies that we have now post-hotfix. No bonus rewards, just a choice for players to what enemies they want to fight.

 

The new players can enjoy it, the people that like the prepatch gameplay can also enjoy it.

Nobody loses, everybody can play what he likes to play the most.

Of all the people

basically this. When Fortuna came out, the challenge was really interesting and of course the 'vets' were happy. It really bummed us when DE nerfed it, but i can see where it come from.

Fortuna was made for everyone, both vets and newbies alike.Thats why, Venus (the second planet), was the place that was chosen for this new open world. Sure it's fun for the vets to have the challenge, but its a problem when newbies can't even finish the quest, and thats why DE nerfed it.

Fortuna was not made for endgame. That being said, there are some way to please vets and the idea from DreisterDino is one of it. An option for vets to have enemies with higher difficulty in Vallis without having to wreck havoc and worrying accidentally destroyed the beacon.

Edited November 14, 2018 by kingvaldemir
fixing grammar. damn my english suck lol

[Iglix]

I understand why they "nerfed" them. When I first steped out of Fortuna (here I am talking about free-roam with their default lvls and experience from intro-quest), I was kinda suprised how tough these lvl 7-20 enemies were. I was suprised that there even was something like lvl 7 enemies around. But I mean if lvl 9 MOA does not desintegrate under my Ignis the moment I just slightly look at it, it means that it has some good enough stats.

Which is very inconsistent with every other enemy anywhere near that level in this game. I at first thought that either these new enemy types in Fortuna have some abilities that let them survive longer or that they have element resistances exactly matching all my weapons. Both options seemed pretty weird for low lvl enemies but I even switched mods on few of my weapons to test it.

 

It really weirded me out the difference. I am kinda glad that they put them on the same power-level as all other enemies of that levels. When I meet lvl 20 enemy, I expect him to behave like lvl 20 enemy. Not like lvl 35. 

As for challenging content, you do realize that there are now Elite Alerts right? Or that you can play bounties with lvl 40+ enemies?

[(PSN)Lion_Goes_HAM]

Reading all of this makes my head hurt a little. 

However I don't understand the route DE is taking. First nerf rivens and with a very few buffs then nerf content because enemies are too strong. This whole ordeal is a turn off to be honest. What's the point of grinding for mods, praying to RNG Jesus for relic open, kuva farming, rerolling and redoing, forma is life and thats whole effort there for the process, the amount of endo to level mods, and more? I know the reply will be "for fun" but at some point this stuff isnt fun but a necessity to get the idea build you either seen or set up for yourself. And now you have to read on forums "dont use that mod" or "dragon key" to add more challenge. That's counter productive to the whole purpose of why any of this is in the game in the first place. 

I know this sucks but in my mind of a rpg is to build better gear to fight stronger stuff for better gear until you hit that peak. Then help others get to where you're at or do what ever at that point. In this it just seems like everything that takes dedication is moot. Why bother going through hard work if rivens will he nerf? Why make gear that excels past 20 mins if the rewards are not just? Why build a powerful build if you have to wait a whole hour to start to feel the rush and so on? Why is it an issue for people with over power gear wanting that gear to be challenge off the gate. I mean I'm reading a few post saying "we gave up on award we just want the rush without asking". There's too many why and all I'm reading is deal with it. That's pretty strange ijs.

Edited November 14, 2018 by (PS4)Lion_Goes_HAM

[SprinKah]

21 minutes ago, kingvaldemir said:

basically this. When Fortuna came out, the challenge was really interesting and of course the 'vets' were happy. It really bummed us when DE nerfed it, but i can see where it come from.

Fortuna was made for everyone, both vets and newbies alike.Thats why, Venus (the second planet), was the place that was chosen for this new open world. Sure it's fun for the vets to have the challenge, but its a problem when a newbies that can't even finish the quest, and thats why DE nerfed it.

Fortuna was not made for endgame. That being said, there are some way to please vets and the idea from DreisterDino is one of it. An option for vets to have a higher difficulty enemies in Vallis without having to wreck havoc and worrying accidentally destroyed the beacon.

I doubt, even with all the nerfs recently, newer players would still be able to do the quest with ease, if DE REALLY wants new players to experience Fortuna and the quest with ease, they should nerf EVERYTHING in Fortuna, make enemies super easy and deal like...I don't know...1 damage per shot or something, eliminating any kind of challenge or hardship that Fortuna has. Does that sound great?

I HIGHLY doubt, whether they're going to keep nerfing the enemies, I still think that new players that JUST REACHED VENUS, won't be able to really handle Fortuna, plus all the problems that come with it, you know that new players that just reached Venus probably won't have K-drive or Archwing, right? They're gonna have to RUN all around of Fortuna, which is HUGE. I'm sure it'd be bloody boring.

Let's be real, Fortuna and Cetus...aren't really content suitable for newbies. New players really shouldn't be hastily roaming around Fortuna or even Cetus starting out like they can handle everything. There are Orbs, Racknoids, freakin Eidolons and Auto Turrets everywhere ready to shred their 100 shield and 100 health right off. I don't want to restrict or enforce any rule, but I feel like newer players, should work on their stuff a bit more if they want to "survive" these content. 

[(PSN)Lion_Goes_HAM]

I accidentally posted something

Edited November 14, 2018 by (PS4)Lion_Goes_HAM

[Gnohme]

So... I just need to get this straight. The amount of damage a level 10 corpus enemy on Venus's open world does isn't the same as a level 10 corpus enemy on a regular mission? Why would that even be? The level scaling is the only consistency across the board with all the mechanics going on in the game so we should know approximately how difficult a mission will be based on that number. People are crying out for the change to be reverted when they should really just be asking for higher level enemies to enter the fray during higher alerts or higher tier bounties. There's no reason why level 10 should be different one place than another.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Gnohme

[(PSN)robi191291]

Why the people think the nerf is for the new players, when the last two games modes for vets was nerf too? 

ESO- buff saryn

Elite alerts- Down the level and the scaling more slowly. 

 

 

[CoolDudeMcCool]

I still think the solution lies in the threat levels. Don't make only some bounties worth playing for a challenge, make it so even the first tier can be somewhat tricky with threat levels, at least for more casual players.

[Oreades]

I'm going to try to keep this somewhat short(ish) and have a bit of fun by giving both a guttural response and trying to offer a more fersrs response in spoilers where applicable. 

First and foremost let us all take a moment to reflect on WHY DE made these changes. They made them because players who they determined should be able to complete the starter quest and gain access to Orb Valis where unable to do so. If DE had determined that those players had no business experiencing the content they wouldn't have made the adjustments. 

 

1 hour ago, zetheros1 said:

I hate to break it to you, but you're wrong. Farming, building, modding Warframes and weapons - then using them to their maximum potential is what gives a sense of pride and satisfaction.

This is a fundamental part of many games. Basically every game. Diablo, WoW, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Mass Effect. You kill things, you get stronger to kill stronger things.

If you want to go play some stupid battle royale or COD with no character progression, go right ahead.

If you want to go play some stupid tryhard game like Darksouls where you can self flagellate to you're hearts content, go right ahead. 
 

Spoiler

 

Been there, done that. Got to the edge, seen over the abyss. Realized that I don't need to min/max everything and don't need to cheese the content to enjoy it. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you need to do something. When I'm bored I'll take something that isn't optimal and ya know what, it's actually kinda fun. 

While I can't speak to all of the games you listed the ones I can speak to, when you go back to lower level areas with your fully leveled character...... you curbstomp everything. Very few games actually have comprehensive scaling because that ultimately makes them feel very samey. The only game I've really seen pull it off to some extent has been GuildWars 2 where in which you're scaled to the area to a large extent, you're still probably somewhere just above natural top tier for that zone but you aren't generally just melting Everything. But GW2 was also clearly built from the ground up with scaling and "how do I play with my friend who just started if I don't want to abandon my lvl ~40 character till they get to lvl 40" in mind, where as Warframe was not. 

DE does seem to be attempting to kinda try to make things less of a complete massacre at least with regards to the bosses by trying to add new mechanics to prevent people from just walking up to say the Ambulas and one shotting it. To some extent the newer enemies but because of the disjointed way the games systems function there isn't a single datapoint you can look to to scale anything that won't destroy the game experience for one side or the other. 

Personally I'd rather share my toys than have people being locked out in the cold, maybe that makes me a monster. 

 

 

45 minutes ago, Nitro747 said:

Its hard to describe in words how idiotic this "you can crank up the challenge by using unmodde weapons" sort of argument is. It simply goes against any logic within videogames. There is a whole world of difference between DE making enemies harder and players having to nerf themselves to have a "challenge". It's like asking a professional UFC fighter to go fight the kindergarten, having him complaining "but those are just kids" and your brilliant idea to ballance things out is telling him "oh, you can just saw off your arms and legs, I'm sure you'll have a nice challenge".

I've read a bunch of your comments over several threads and I'm pretty much responding to say I don't think they're worth responding to. Ironic I know that I'm taking the time to respond to this and even this segment where I explain the curious nature of the response. 

Eh I feel kinda bad that you don't get a "fersrs" spoiler section, maybe tone down the hyperbole? 

 

40 minutes ago, O2D3nTe said:

Asking for higher level content does not mean getting rid of anything that currently exist. So who is thrown in front of the bus if a new game mode shows up with high levels enemies ? The game currently have a lot of casual content, and no really challenging end game content. Obviously it leads to a situation where people are asking for the latter, since we already have an abundance of the former.

I'm also not sure who is supposed to be a veteran. I have logged around 160 days if I remember correctly, 450h according to in game stats. Only a handful of frames/weapons are completely forma'ed with primed mods. I haven't been playing Warframe that long compared to others, but I still reached the point where I can cheese the entire content with a few frames. If veteran refers to people who get at least a few fully modded frames and weapons and can cheese the entire game, then there is a whole lot of us veterans, and more people will join with time. The end game question doesn't only concern MR26 founders, it's an important question for all of us. For example, the frame you like the most is most likely the one you're going to invest the most. Once you fully mod that frame, you're exactly in that end game situation, your frame will be too strong for anything the game throw at you. Do you stop playing it ? that's your favorite frame after all.

Regarding rewards, I'm not saying DE should oblige and provide what some people are asking for, but people are asking those things for a reason:

- More power creep: That's the whole progression of the game, it's only logical for people to comes up with that. It's also how the majority of games are working.

- Exclusive cosmetics: That's a seriously messed up way of looking at it. Again, the majority of games offer exclusive cosmetics, there's no evil master plan, it's not about rubbing anything in anyone's face. It's a reward that feel worth working toward while avoiding the entire power creep situation. And honestly can you tell ? When I see other people's frame I can't tell what they're wearing, and even if I do, then what ? I've never seen an Excalibur prime, but if I do, I'll just be "ho nice", I won't go bat S#&$ crazy "this #*!%er is trying to show off and think he's better than us".

Could DE comes up with better rewards ? Maybe. Should we listen to players when it comes to rewards ? Most likely not, we all like shinny new toys. But at the end of the day, those requests are not coming from evil veterans who want to show those noobs than they're better than them, it's only players who could not come up with better ideas, and are using what all other games out there are doing as a reference.

And once again, the whole "downgrade your own loadout" thing is not a solution. Collecting mods, ranking them up, forma'ing frame and weapon, applying catalysts/reactors are all important aspect of the game and a huge part of the progression. It's counter-intuitive to ask people to not do it (aka not play some part of the game) because it's too strong.

 

Honestly I haven't seen that many of those bat S#&$ crazy veteran you're referring to, but I've seen a handful of people with your mindset. Hating on those veterans, or most likely your own made up image of them. To me your attitude is hurting the game more than theirs. DE already proved countless times that the game will never become a hardcore game catering to people with thousands of hours put into the game. It's accessible, most of the content is and will forever be. It would still benefit from a bit of higher level stuff for those who are into those things.

You don't get a spoiler section either but more because that's going to take too much work and I'd need to parse through various segments of the comment to isolate the parts where I'm not sure if you're serious or if you're just trying to get a rise out of me so I fly off the handle. So I'm just going to stick as much as I can to the points and ignore the rest. Honestly I was going to ignore all of the replies but for the most part you appear to have put in some genuine effort and I can appreciate that, the rest where just gravy. 

Here we go~

As I started this off, the reason DE made the changes was because people who they clearly determined should be able to complete the Quest where unable to complete the quest because of the enemy stats. The result of saying not to change those stats is throwing those players under the bus. 

It reminds me of all the threads I've seen over the years saying Stalker/Zanuka/Grustrag need a buff, completely ignoring the fact that for a lot of people those enemies are still a challenge and buffing them just because they aren't a challenge for (I'm going to say) us is selfish. It's like having a toy that you've out grown and refusing to let your younger sibling play with it by going to your parents and demanding that they make it fun again.  

Personally I thought the Octavia quest was overly punishing, not because it wasn't a cakewalk for me because it was. More so because I remember how much of a pain in the butt Sentients where to fight. Even back when I was fairly well geared up but at least the Octavia quest only essentially locked the frame not an entire open world node. Which as far as I am aware the Fortuna quest does at least from what I've heard, didn't experience that myself as it was a pretty strait forward cake walk for me. I don't think that people should be locked out of an open world node because of a quest that DE clearly determined they where otherwise "qualified" for. 

As far as the enemy difficulty, I didn't really notice a change. T4 alert enemies where just as meltie as they where pre-nerf. I don't think I downed quite as much but I was also more familiar with the mechanics at that point, still downed from time to time. But then again I don't always play hyper optimized cheese builds.

 

 

Now to address the Power Creep thing cause the "it's the point of the game" argument keeps coming up. It is blatantly self defeating when the only reason the people who keep proclaiming "all I want is a challenge" will participate in said challenge is IF that challenge contains a MacGuffin that functionally negates the challenge of said challenge. 

People also bring up other games as examples to show that you have a natural progression of power and yeah that's technically how things work. however~ those games are also generally carefully curated and designed from the inception to accommodate that curve. Very few if any of those games actually employ any sort of scaling system so when you hit max level you're going to obliterate low level enemies. 

The problem being that Warframe has long since moved past "peak power" and has continued to add creep to the game because creep is virtually all that people will respond to in any significant way. They've tried sidegrades and fertehlulz grades but people choose to largely ignore those because "why should I hobble myself", when the answer is "cause you'll have a better time". Much like the answer to "why shouldn't I eat nothing but chocolate" is "so you don't get a tummy ache". 

Even DE is guilty of that with PoE, where they hammered plains so hard that I stopped playing the Plains for like a month. I didn't even want to see them. Tho they have been IMO mostly handling Fortuna significantly better as is evidenced by the new Unvaulting being spread over Fortuna/PoE and the Void. 

Clinging to power creep is self defeating if what you really want is a challenge then you will take the challenge for the sake of it, it is literally it's own reward but people largely wont' be cause "why should I put in the extra effort". I think a lot of people would be better off if they could simply admit to themselves that what they really want is the reward.  If the task happens to be challenging that's gravy for them but it needs the reward or they aren't going to bother. As is evidenced by peoples refusal to not redline their builds, cause they can have challenge right now they choose not to. 

 

As to the cosmetics, I'll agree that might be a cynical way to look at it as most people don't actively flaunt things, unless they do. For a lot of people it's enough to know that someone somewhere doesn't have it. I suppose what gets me there is the whining and bellyaching when something from an event is re-added to the game and let loose (or is it slip) the threads of war about how DE is "literally" stealing from them. 

When I'm sitting there, I have the exact same cosmetic and all I can think is "why not let them have fun with it?" I've already had/enjoyed it for X period of time and there is no reason other people shouldn't. The reasoning behind the desire for exclusivity is petty and the self worth that is gleaned is misplaced. 

 

And then we have that last paragraph, I'll just tackle that by saying people who can't share their toys are the ones hurting the game. 

 

23 minutes ago, Falconer777 said:

*meme image*

Spoiler

*meme image*

Yeah I know the ferlulz and the fersrs whoozles where pretty much the same but I said I was going to do a fersrs "spoiler" gosh darn it and the last two didn't get one.  

 

[(PSN)Lion_Goes_HAM]

1 hour ago, Oreades said:

Clinging to power creep is self defeating if what you really want is a challenge then you will take the challenge for the sake of it, it is literally it's own reward but people largely wont' be cause "why should I put in the extra effort". I think a lot of people would be better off if they could simply admit to themselves that what they really want is the reward.  If the task happens to be challenging that's gravy for them but it needs the reward or they aren't going to bother. As is evidenced by peoples refusal to not redline their builds, cause they can have challenge right now they choose not to. 

  Reveal hidden contents

*meme image*

Yeah I know the ferlulz and the fersrs whoozles where pretty much the same but I said I was going to do a fersrs "spoiler" gosh darn it and the last two didn't get one.  

 

That's the thing. People are really no longer asking for a reward but an excitement. I wont lie yes I am. I highly beleive if you beat higher end content you should be rewarded for that. Either an insane amount of credit, endo, mod, cosmetic, random weapon part, idc. Yes you should be rewarded instead of "phew that was too dang hard but fun riiiight? I always wanted 80 endo for fighting 150+ mobs riiiight? But fun is what matters the most riiiight?" I hate to break this too you but a reward for work is pretty standard in content made to challenge or seem impossible in video games like this. It's a roll playing game at the end of the day. A great one with perks of full customization, gameplay, and visuals. All amazing you gotta love it! This is really it's only hurting point which is a big thing because the fun just stops. Good thing the gameplay is addicting or else it would of been a done game. There's nothing wrong with players being ahead of other players because they put that much effort in the game. That should be a reward it self. And when they reach that peak assist others, work on a different weapon, warframe, dojo, operator, arch wing and so on until that content is complete. I hate comparing games because that tends to be unfair but I do like FF idea when it comes to doing dungeons on certain levels. They cap the stats you have when you assist lower level players and also so you dont go on a rampage ruining fun for others players and its encourage to go out and help. If this is a game where DE wants EVERYONE to experience every content they should implement an idea like this so that people can catch up sooner than later. You bust your butt off you should be allowed to shine its glory. When I played other games and I seen their gear from achievements it motivated me to catch up and get that gear so I too can be as awesome as them. Nothing wrong with that at all.

[Spectre-8]

The enemies got nerfed already but the flow of popcorn never stops .

[Gurpgork]

4 hours ago, Spectre-8 said:

That's the whole point , because Warframe is a casual game .

Yes, but the problem of having no concrete balance point whatsoever is still relevant, even in a casual game. You can't meaningfully declare how difficult the game should be if you don't have a concrete balance point, and that's true whether the game is supposed to be easy or hard. 

[Lost_Cartographer]

3 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

Yes, but the problem of having no concrete balance point whatsoever is still relevant, even in a casual game. You can't meaningfully declare how difficult the game should be if you don't have a concrete balance point, and that's true whether the game is supposed to be easy or hard. 

The closest thing to an anchored balance point is probably levels 30-60, somewhere in that range.  The old maximum start chart to new maximum open world.  Sorties are meant to be hard, and they're only rendered easy because Oreades is right - the one thing people respond strongly to is power creepy new weapons.

But mostly, what makes the game easy isn't our weaponry, it's our magical powers.  These will be your radial blinds, radial disarms, chaos, etc.  Levels 100+ aren't hard, they're a puzzle with target dummies.  Level 100+ enemies tend to chew through all but the tankiest frames ridiculously fast, so the game plan is to strip the enemy of any capacity to fight.  This is why "challenge" is a joke in Warframe, and you have to go make your own, because the only way DE can challenge us is if they give everyone a nullifier bubble or alternatively, just disable our powers.  Ramping up raw numbers doesn't mean jack to any Tenno being honest with how they handle "challenging content."  This is why people can go 6 hours in an endless... the only challenge is stroking your ego.

 

 

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

22 hours ago, mcdoo said:

Its like you were in a epic John Woo space ninja movie. Now its some rando B movie guy directing a Power Rangers flick using porn actors. 

I......can't get this image out of my head now

[Lost_Cartographer]

11 hours ago, DreisterDino said:

Thats precisly my suggestion when i say this:

that is choosing a tougher difficulty.

Yes there are tons of games where you can chose the difficulty.

But name me one game where people chose to not use the tools they earn (and mods are a tool aswell) to have a challenge.

Metal Gear Solid: The Phantom Pain is SUPER F***ING EASY if you just want to run and gun through everything.  Get the heavy armor, and you're practically unstoppable.  The game actively encourages you to use stealth and not take any lives, which is notably harder.

Dishonored series: Another stealth game.  Murdering people is easy.  Being sneaky is hard.  Especially when murdering people can be super fun, wholly cow this game series lets you get creative and stylish.

BTW, I typically hate stealth games, but the above two get it right.  Highly recommend.

Fallout 3 (or was it New Vegas?)  Someone has beaten this game without healing a single hit point outside of what level ups force on you.  That's not the only self imposed challenge this person has placed on themselves to beat the game. 

I know every time *I* play Fallout 4, I place greater restrictions upon myself.  I found I enjoy healing through only looted pre-war food and suffering with rads until I get to a doctor to be lots of fun as one example.  Stimpaks are easy.  Surviving on harder difficulties with half my health pool chewed up by rads and knowing each hit point recovered also means having less in total can make extended forays into the wasteland intense.  I also don't upgrade my armor, or pick up "defense" perks that help me take punishment, and I stick with an "RP" set.  Not ideal for combat, as I'm totally lacking armor.

I know there was (is?) someone that plays the Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time religiously, and they too placed self-imposed restrictions upon themselves.  How this one person enjoyed playing JUST THIS ONE GAME for a decade(?) blows my mind.

And I'm fairly sure someone's beaten Dark Souls bare ass naked.  I mean, any game where you clothe/armor a character, chances are someone's beaten it bare ass naked and with the worst weapon imaginable.

Try playing through DOOM... using nothing but the pistol.

And of course, not all of us are using META weapons with cheese builds in Warframe, and still find plenty of excitement in knowing we can't just one shot the medium spiders that spawn in Orb Vallis and will have to juggle handing them as well as the other 20 Corpus trying to hose us down, all without spamming our CC/tanking abilities so we can dispatch them with impunity.  Just saying, the option is there: You don't have to take the Ignis Wraith into battle to win, but you do have to leave it behind or strip it down if you want your enemies to have a chance to be a threat in the majority of Warframe's content.

 

 

[Spectre-8]

6 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

Yes, but the problem of having no concrete balance point whatsoever is still relevant, even in a casual game. You can't meaningfully declare how difficult the game should be if you don't have a concrete balance point, and that's true whether the game is supposed to be easy or hard. 

Who needs balance when you have floofs , and who balances a pve game anyways .

[BlackPanda39]

Now they are blaming Rio. Why the warframe community hate us just for wanted a little chalenge. We all life together right.

But us endurance runners or people that want a chalenge always been pouch away. Rio is the only voice that speak for us, the other youtuber just do meme and post their sh**t build everyday which always the same. We buy platinum and prime access and grind the game too as every one , but we are the problem. I think all of you are afraid because we start to have a voice because ur community is starting to get bigger and bigger. Lately a lot of people start to notice the lack of chalenge in the game, if DE don't do anything about it, it will hut a lot. 

 

[Spectre-8]

Just now, BlackPanda39 said:

Now they are blaming Rio. Why the warframe community hate us just for wanted a little chalenge. We all life together right.

But us endurance runners or people that want a chalenge always been pouch away. Rio is the only voice that speak for us, the other youtuber just do meme and post their sh**t build everyday which always the same. We buy platinum and prime access and grind the game too as every one , but we are the problem. I think all of you are afraid because we start to have a voice because ur community is starting to get bigger and bigger. Lately a lot of people start to notice the lack of chalenge in the game, if DE don't do anything about it, it will hut a lot. 

 

Yeah because you're the minority ,ree.

[(PSN)T_Lor1]

12 hours ago, Oreades said:

The long standing problem with Warframe is that it has a bunch of disjointed systems that mean absolutely nothing on their own and MR is one of them. So you really can't scale things based on MR, it needs to be based on a bunch of additional factors and that is part of the cluster hek that is the reason Warframe has never gotten true scaling.

Similarly to the same reason why people have trouble initially wrapping their heads around the fact that "My Warframe is level 10, my weapon is levle 10, why do level 10 enemies keep melting my face?" 

There is just no one system where you can definitively say "this is the point for which we can assign difficulty scaling" 

Yeah for real. The leveling in Warframe is all over the damn place. You have mods, you have endo, you have MR, you have levels, you have arcanes, you have Focus. Some systems are better then others but combined they are just a cluster f***.

In reality the only real solution is to release a Warframe 2 and have the developers take an new idea chill pill. They need some leadership there with a clear vision. Someone who has some higher level planning ability to galvanize the systems in the game into one cohesive unit. Most of the leveling systems are half baked idea garbage. and I think at this point there's probably no way to fix it.

If DE was willing to take a hard look at what they have with Warframe, they could identify what works and what doesn't and create a very solid Warframe 2 that would include only the best systems in Warframe and abandon the nonsense. 

Lastly, I feel like their strategy has been such that when something in the game does not work well, rather than tune it, overhaul it, and fix it, they just add new systems on top of the old systems. It's really very strange.

Edited November 15, 2018 by (PS4)T_Lor1
Added to first thought

[Althaline]

32 minutes ago, (PS4)T_Lor1 said:

Lastly, I feel like their strategy has been such that when something in the game does not work well, rather than tune it, overhaul it, and fix it, they just add new systems on top of the old systems. It's really very strange.

That's because every time they tried to fix a system, the forums all started screeching again (like here, when they fixed OV). It's a learned behaviour that we, the Warframe community have cultivated by refusing to adapt.

Then again, some of those changes really did suck... (looking at you, Plains Archwing)