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We NEED Forma 2.0


Hmm...interesting.
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We need forma to build many weapons and upgrade our current weapons, warframes, and companions. With forma being such an integral part of the game, it should by no means take this long to get, or be this tedious to install. A huge reason that I haven't put forma in so much of my gear is because I absolutely HATE leveling things over, and over, and over again. With that being said, here is my proposition for the changes that we should make to the acquisition and utilization of forma. 

First, kill this irritating, pointless grind by making forma a simple instant installation. As soon as I select "Polarize" in my upgrade screen, I want the forma to be there without having to re-level my gear. Now, you might be thinking, "that's too easy and boring," and I have to say that I agree. It is a bit easy and boring to simply be able to plug in forma wherever as soon as it's even possible to upgrade things. I suggest giving us a new orbiter segment that would be required to install (maybe even build) forma. This is where part of the difficulty to build and use forma could come from. Have a short lore-related quest that would reward us with the new orbiter segment. Side note: do you ever notice how it's not really that boring to use orbiter segments like the foundry? It kind of feels progressive and new when you use it. That's how I imagine the new orbiter segment feeling.

Second, change the build time for the love of your players. It takes an entire 24-hour day to make a single forma. That is absurd. Change the build time to be something like 1 hour.

Third, with all this "make forma easier to get" thing, don't worry, here's the catch. Make forma DIFFICULT to build. Currently, it requires 1 Morphics, 1 Neural Sensors, 1 Neurodes, and 1 Orokin Cell to build. Aside from the Orokin Cell, most players have enough materials to make forma many, many times over. We need a new material to farm for that is required to make forma (like a forma core or something like that). Assuming that forma is an Orokin technology, we could do void runs in in order to get this new material. And you could involve another NPC like Maroo or something to lead the missions. With how valuable forma is, the material should be about 3-4 times as rare as Argon Crystals. It should be difficult enough that it takes a party to get a decent yield for your time invested, and also be exciting/satisfying when you get it.

Let me know your thoughts! I really hope DE reads these posts, because I think this would be a great addition/change to the game, and I'm also REAL SICK OF GRINDING THESE WEAPON AND WARFRAME RANKS.

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My biggest issue with forma, like basically all other items in the foundry, is that you can only make one at a time. Sure i can make 30 different weapons at once, but i can't make two forma at the same time? I dunno, it just draws out the process more than it should i feel. When you suddenly need 5 forma all at once, it would be pretty great if you could make them as you need them as opposed to one a day (can't exactly play all day if you have a job, pets, or kids).

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We do not need a new Forma system. Your own personal distaste with leveling gear does not mean the system is faulty or in need of a dramatic change. The requirement to re-level gear is precisely in place to lengthen the time it takes for players to increase their gear power while at the same time ensuring the resource required is easily and reliably obtained for players at all levels. Emphasis on "all levels".

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37 minutes ago, Hmm...interesting. said:

I suggest giving us a new orbiter segment that would be required to install (maybe even build) forma.

This is inane. Stretching game mechanics beyond their breaking point to somehow justify this is silly. A one time cost to now instantly be able to halve the cost of any mod on any piece of equipment and instantly be at full power is so far beyond reasonable.

40 minutes ago, Hmm...interesting. said:

Second, change the build time for the love of your players. It takes an entire 24-hour day to make a single forma. That is absurd. Change the build time to be something like 1 hour.

This combined with the first is insanity.

41 minutes ago, Hmm...interesting. said:

With how valuable forma is, the material should be about 3-4 times as rare as Argon Crystals. It should be difficult enough that it takes a party to get a decent yield for your time invested, and also be exciting/satisfying when you get it.

I sneeze and get Argon in whatever the shortest Void run is. Even then, Forma are sold in 3-packs on the Market, and then they respect the same rules as build Forma.

43 minutes ago, Hmm...interesting. said:

Let me know your thoughts!

Honestly, the worst possible change suggested to Forma yet.

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42 minutes ago, (XB1)RPColten said:

We do not need a new Forma system. Your own personal distaste with leveling gear does not mean the system is faulty or in need of a dramatic change. The requirement to re-level gear is precisely in place to lengthen the time it takes for players to increase their gear power while at the same time ensuring the resource required is easily and reliably obtained for players at all levels. Emphasis on "all levels".

1) You could say we don't NEED a lot of things in this game, but the introduction of those things makes the game better. I know there are a lot of players out there that hate the leveling grind.

2) In regards to lengthening the time it takes to increase gear power level, the point of time investment moves from leveling to get the weapons to getting the materials to make the forma. The goal is to make the time investment similar.

3) I don't think it should be available to players of "all levels." By putting the accessibility of forma later in the game/star chart, newer players have something to work towards. It's similar to how you don't get all of your abilities when your warframe is rank 0, and unlock abilities as you continue to rank up the warframe.

Edited by Hmm...interesting.
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13 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

This is inane. Stretching game mechanics beyond their breaking point to somehow justify this is silly. A one time cost to now instantly be able to halve the cost of any mod on any piece of equipment and instantly be at full power is so far beyond reasonable.

This combined with the first is insanity.

I sneeze and get Argon in whatever the shortest Void run is. Even then, Forma are sold in 3-packs on the Market, and then they respect the same rules as build Forma.

Honestly, the worst possible change suggested to Forma yet.

Do you mind clarifying your points? I don't see how having another orbiter segment is stretching game mechanics to the point of breaking. Forma should probably take more time than an hour to build, one hour was more of a placeholder time. I don't understand your third point either.

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1 minute ago, Hmm...interesting. said:

I don't see how having another orbiter segment is stretching game mechanics to the point of breaking.

Orbiter segments don't actually exist. They are game constructs to show game progression to the players. There is literally no reason to put this nonsense behind a segment. I don't even understand why you bring up Orbiter segments.

4 minutes ago, Hmm...interesting. said:

Forma should probably take more time than an hour to build, one hour was more of a placeholder time.

They are 1 day to build for a reason. The best change that could reasonably happen is they are brought to 23 hours so they can be built and retrieved at the same time every day.

5 minutes ago, Hmm...interesting. said:

I don't understand your third point either.

Argon are not rare given how many opportunities you have to come across something that drops them. Comparing a rarity of this hypothetical new item to them does not make it seem like it is all that rare.

This proposal also means that players now have a way to take a new item and instantly Forma every slot on it, given Forma are sold in the Market.

13 minutes ago, Hmm...interesting. said:

The goal is to make the time investment similar.

It currently takes 24 hours and rare, in name only, materials to build a Forma. It takes anywhere from 10 to 20 minutes to relevel that item, regardless of whether you build the Forma or buy the Forma. Your new idea is less than 24 to build them and, per your comparison to Argon, a trivial amount of time to farm the mats to build them along with no added time to relevel the gear.

You have not created a system with a similar time investment.

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If you make forma build times less, then people are not gonna bother buying so many formas from the market. That's money off DE's pockets. And if you make people able to forma their stuff without leveling it up again people wouldn't buy affinity boosters so much, more money off DE's pockets. And I doubt the new customers would make up for it. The only difference would be that you'd get to fill your power fantasy faster and thus be bored with the game earlier. And that'd make more people leave the game.

Plus I like formaing and leveling up stuff again, got a lot of frames and weapons formaed and gonna get them all formaed before I quit. I like how it increases the lifespan of the game.

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11 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Orbiter segments don't actually exist. They are game constructs to show game progression to the players. There is literally no reason to put this nonsense behind a segment. I don't even understand why you bring up Orbiter segments.

The reason I would put it behind an orbiter segment is for a couple of reasons. First, it would make access to it more sensibly limitable. You could limit access multiple ways, this is just one way. The orbiter segment was just the method that I came up with off the top of my head. The second reason to have access limited to an orbiter segment would be to add another introduction of lore in the short quest to get the segment. 

16 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

They are 1 day to build for a reason. The best change that could reasonably happen is they are brought to 23 hours so they can be built and retrieved at the same time every day.

I know they are limited to a day for a reason, but my thoughts are that there is way too much waiting for forma to be built (24 hrs) compared to how much time it takes for forma a weapon and rank it up to level 30 (about 15 minutes). In regard to forma-ing weapons, there is a pattern of "wait a long time to build forma, then tediously grind for 15 minutes. It would be better to even out that wave, If there was another way to reduce the grind of forma-ing weapons, that would be great. I just can't think of one right now.

24 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Argon are not rare given how many opportunities you have to come across something that drops them. Comparing a rarity of this hypothetical new item to them does not make it seem like it is all that rare.

Again, the Argon Crystal comparison was more of a placeholder based on my personal experience farming Argon. Main point was mostly to make the grind a comfortable grind with relatively rare yield. Whether the system I mentioned was a similar time investment or not, the goal was to make it a similar time investment. Numbers could be adjusted to make the time investment similar.

 

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25 minutes ago, GOOFBALL1 said:

If you make forma build times less, then people are not gonna bother buying so many formas from the market.

This isn't necessarily true. By making the farm difficult enough, it will cause some people to want to skip the grind and simply buy the forma.

26 minutes ago, GOOFBALL1 said:

And if you make people able to forma their stuff without leveling it up again people wouldn't buy affinity boosters so much

This is a good point that I didn't think about. I'm sure there are other ways to generate revenue, but I of course don't have much authority with that.

31 minutes ago, GOOFBALL1 said:

The only difference would be that you'd get to fill your power fantasy faster and thus be bored with the game earlier. And that'd make more people leave the game.

This is a problem with the mechanics of the gameplay, not forma-ing weapons. The point of the game shouldn't be to be on a tedious grind fest the whole time. I personally hate having to level my weapons over and over again because it's repetitive. Running Hydron is one of the most efficient time:affinity-gain missions. Other mission types that I like much more like spy, have a MUCH lower affinity yield than defense. And since I want to get the leveling over with quickly, guess where I'm going every time to level my weapons. I just don't like to have to run the same mission in order to get a decent amount of affinity in a reasonable amount of time.

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31 minutes ago, Hmm...interesting. said:

That's not the point of the discussion.

It is.

Your point in the OP is "cut down time" (no need of releveling)

3 hours ago, Hmm...interesting. said:

I want the forma to be there without having to re-level my gear.

and

3 hours ago, Hmm...interesting. said:

It takes an entire 24-hour day to make a single forma. That is absurd. Change the build time to be something like 1 hour.

1 hour ago, Hmm...interesting. said:

but my thoughts are that there is way too much waiting for forma to be built (24 hrs) compared to how much time it takes for forma a weapon and rank it up to level 30 (about 15 minutes)

Just buy 100 of them. Forma 3 weapon at once (Primary, Secondary and Melee) and maybe add the Frame as well and the weapons will be maxed after 6-8 Zones SO. The Frame takes 2 rounds.

If you can't afford them or just don't want to, then grind the hell out of PS. I got about 150 (pre-built) per event

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16 minutes ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

It is.

Your point in the OP is "cut down time" (no need of releveling)

and

Just buy 100 of them. Forma 3 weapon at once (Primary, Secondary and Melee) and maybe add the Frame as well and the weapons will be maxed after 6-8 Zones SO. The Frame takes 2 rounds.

If you can't afford them or just don't want to, then grind the hell out of PS. I got about 150 (pre-built) per event

No, the point of the post is to make the existing baseline system better. I know Perfectly well that you can grind plague star *when it's here*, or that I can just farm platinum, but my main point is that I think the base system could be better. I don't feel like sitting in trade chat all day so that I can get a bit of plat to buy a resource that should be farmable.

I think this post also brings up a point that affinity should be more equally earned between mission types. Because it gets really boring to just grind all the time in the same exact missions so that I don't spend half an hour leveling a weapon up to thirty.

Edited by Hmm...interesting.
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I think Forma are exactly where DE wants them to be right now. And they are one of the FEW Features hat worked without major Bugs from the Point of their implementation onward.

They aren't meant to be applied to every weapon you own, just to the weapons you want to get the most use out. 

There are three ways you can play with Forma:

1. Build one every day. So you have enough when you need them. (A friend of mine dose that and sits on 70+ Forma)

2. Buy the Three Pack for 35 Plat when in need of Forma. And spend them as you like. (This is what I do as I really dislike running Fissures) And if you don't have enough its the fastest way to get them. E.g. When DE reworked Exalted weapons I burned through 30-35 Forma in one go to get all my builds up and running again. 

3. A combination of both options mentioned above. I used that to prepare for the Exalted rework. 10-15 Forma Build and as I deleted my Storage I used plat to by as many as I needed to finish my work.

To summarize Forma work as intended and you should Never fix what ain't broken. 

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Nope.. it's a grind game.. Same with dismantling Zaws..

Best change i would like to see is picking your element combinations.. because i have a  build that's impossible to puzzle to the correct elements because of the forma polarities

Edited by Grimmstyler
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Seems pretty over the top.. a mini quest... so you can build forma that costs more to build, in a specific segment of the orbiter just for 1 thing.

It's forma. Do fissures and youll end up swimming in bp's, especially if you use rad relics :wink: The only change forma needs is either halving its build time, or allowing us to build perhaps 2 or 4 at a time.

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On 2018-11-14 at 5:54 AM, Hmm...interesting. said:

We need forma to build many weapons and upgrade our current weapons, warframes, and companions. With forma being such an integral part of the game, it should by no means take this long to get, or be this tedious to install. A huge reason that I haven't put forma in so much of my gear is because I absolutely HATE leveling things over, and over, and over again. With that being said, here is my proposition for the changes that we should make to the acquisition and utilization of forma. 

First, kill this irritating, pointless grind by making forma a simple instant installation. As soon as I select "Polarize" in my upgrade screen, I want the forma to be there without having to re-level my gear. Now, you might be thinking, "that's too easy and boring," and I have to say that I agree. It is a bit easy and boring to simply be able to plug in forma wherever as soon as it's even possible to upgrade things. I suggest giving us a new orbiter segment that would be required to install (maybe even build) forma. This is where part of the difficulty to build and use forma could come from. Have a short lore-related quest that would reward us with the new orbiter segment. Side note: do you ever notice how it's not really that boring to use orbiter segments like the foundry? It kind of feels progressive and new when you use it. That's how I imagine the new orbiter segment feeling.

Second, change the build time for the love of your players. It takes an entire 24-hour day to make a single forma. That is absurd. Change the build time to be something like 1 hour.

Third, with all this "make forma easier to get" thing, don't worry, here's the catch. Make forma DIFFICULT to build. Currently, it requires 1 Morphics, 1 Neural Sensors, 1 Neurodes, and 1 Orokin Cell to build. Aside from the Orokin Cell, most players have enough materials to make forma many, many times over. We need a new material to farm for that is required to make forma (like a forma core or something like that). Assuming that forma is an Orokin technology, we could do void runs in in order to get this new material. And you could involve another NPC like Maroo or something to lead the missions. With how valuable forma is, the material should be about 3-4 times as rare as Argon Crystals. It should be difficult enough that it takes a party to get a decent yield for your time invested, and also be exciting/satisfying when you get it.

Let me know your thoughts! I really hope DE reads these posts, because I think this would be a great addition/change to the game, and I'm also REAL SICK OF GRINDING THESE WEAPON AND WARFRAME RANKS.

Patience yung one .

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I'd definitely like to see a Forma 2.0 but I don't really have a problem with the current Forma acquisition/building. I'm kinda ambivalent about having to level a weapon a zillion times. Tho I do recall a time early in my Warframe career where every Forma was still rare and precious and I did a lot of contemplating before I made any Forma investments. Everyone is going to start there, everyone is eventually going to move past that as well. 

My biggest problem with Forma is that with the current system the more Forma you put in your gear the more stagnant your build becomes. And if you ever replace a polarity you have essentially wasted the initial Forma and all the time leveling that slot. 

What I'd love to see is a Multi-Polarity system, let people put literally every polarity on any slot they want. Cause limiting build diversity doesn't help anything and enabling build diversity doesn't hurt anything. We've already hit peak power with our builds so a Multi-Polarity system isn't going to cause any additional power creep it simply expands build potential at the cost of additional investment. 

The question then becomes, but if you put four polarities in every slot, what do you do about Umbral mods? Simple treat them like Colorless mana. They just cost the full 16 points regardless of the polarity of the slot you are adding them to. Add them to an empty slot 16pts, add them to a polarized slot 16pts. At the end of the day you only really have 8 mod slots to work with and that doesn't change. 

Edited by Oreades
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  • 3 weeks later...

i hope it's safe to post another thread in a relevant thread, because this topic seems to be brought up time and time again and it seems DE is not interested in changing how "often" you can get forma's.

 

i find it interesting that this thread is archived and here's to hopeing this contributes to this thread's discussion and maybe people (or someone) needs to spend time to investigate every FORMA forum thread ever made to get a better idea of DE's thinking because you'll notice also that this topic has never been brought up on any Devstream and i doubt it's ever been a topic in the Workshop. Would be a simple change, or even to make relics where the rare reward is a full built FORMA. It does seem rather odd that they want people to continue playing WARFRAME but i'm sure there are people who want to "improve" their gaming experience by adding polarities to their stuff and forget to log in every 24ish hours just to claim one of their many forma bp's they spent time to farm up. It's an interesting notion that WARFRAME is actually losing players because of the 24 hour build time.

it doesn't help that DE finds someone to "showcase" their game and the person is never informed about the nightmares of FORMA.

Edited by MageSkeleton
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