Can We Stop Catering to New Players?

[TARINunit9]

On 2018-11-13 at 11:20 PM, Boondokz said:

Don't get me wrong I understand that DE wants new players to be able to experience everything and not get discouraged, but will it ever stop coming at the expense of the fun for veterans? With the release of Fortuna I thought I had finally found my new love in the form of base raiding. Enemies hit luck trucks and ramped up to high levels extremely fast. It became intense and therefor fun. How many toroids could you farm up before your team became overwhelmed and then have to sprint to the exit, mount up, and dash away. This was an amazing prospect. Instead DE nerfs the damage that the enemies do, lower the ramp speed (may be observer bias there), and decrease spawn rates. No longer is it an intense battle where you have to play smart if you want your rewards. Instead it has become yet another boring farm session. If you want the intense gameplay you have to wait an extremely long time.

I gotta disagree with you on basically all of this. Enemies weren't hard in original Fortuna, they were ANNOYING

Very few of my Warframes have forma on them simply because I don't care. I have a couple of high-level three-forma frames for specific sorties, but for the most part I'm running around as basically level 60 frames who have maxed Vitality mods. Just giving you some context here

And the enemies at lvl35, lvl 40, they couldn't kill me in original Fortuna. I was out with a guildmate farming Torids, and those medium-giant spiders were spawning in. Enemies were ramping up, hitting level 40, amx alert level, spawning all around us, hyenas and jackals and jetpacks everywhere. And they couldn't kill me. They just could not drop my health, even with your supposed "hitting like a truck". You know what they could do? Bounce me around like a pinball for like 20 straight seconds until I could finally reload my gun and actually shoot them

They weren't hard, they were just obnoxious

[pig666eon]

right now the game is focused on new players and they are trying to get them to experience everything, is that a bad thing? no not at all but why cant they do it without hampering the difficulty of missions that higher ranked players can be challenged, i really dont get it tbh

give us some high level missions that is super hard, without rewards that is needed to progress in fortuna so low levels dont have to do and thats it, its not really that hard tbh. we have a sortie that its just a breeze, arbs that dont do much other than kick you out with host migration when the host dies same goes for eso then they reduce the difficulty of fortuna.... whats the point of maxing out mods and 5 forma builds when the only thing it does is make the game boring and just fly through missions

i just wish there was more focus on the vets who have played for so long spent alot of money on the game and looking for something challenging to do with out maxed out frames/ weapons. you dont need to spend months coming up with a new game mode just give us higher tier bountys or missions, add another level in raise the enemy level maybe more eximus/corrupted whatever spawning in and give out rewards that isnt worthless to people who are endgame

[Atsia]

1 minute ago, pig666eon said:

right now the game is focused on new players and they are trying to get them to experience everything, is that a bad thing? no not at all but why cant they do it without hampering the difficulty of missions that higher ranked players can be challenged, i really dont get it tbh

give us some high level missions that is super hard, without rewards that is needed to progress in fortuna so low levels dont have to do and thats it, its not really that hard tbh. we have a sortie that its just a breeze, arbs that dont do much other than kick you out with host migration when the host dies same goes for eso then they reduce the difficulty of fortuna.... whats the point of maxing out mods and 5 forma builds when the only thing it does is make the game boring and just fly through missions

i just wish there was more focus on the vets who have played for so long spent alot of money on the game and looking for something challenging to do with out maxed out frames/ weapons. you dont need to spend months coming up with a new game mode just give us higher tier bountys or missions, add another level in raise the enemy level maybe more eximus/corrupted whatever spawning in and give out rewards that isnt worthless to people who are endgame

Well that hits on the other half of the matter. Any challenging content is still not gonna be played by the majority of players if there are no "appropriate" rewards. Just take a look at what happened to the Void. Everything about it is the exact same, it just isn't the only place to get prime parts now, and players dropped it faster than DE with a nerf-hammer

[LupisV0lk]

It's funny how people are ignoring the issue and reason behind the "nerf" The enemies on fortuna were out damaging their leveled counterparts.

[Pizzarugi]

1 minute ago, Atsia said:

Well that hits on the other half of the matter. Any challenging content is still not gonna be played by the majority of players if there are no "appropriate" rewards. Just take a look at what happened to the Void. Everything about it is the exact same, it just isn't the only place to get prime parts now, and players dropped it faster than DE with a nerf-hammer

Exactly. The majority of pub matches I go to, teammates tend to want to bail after reaching the first C rotation reward, because (as some have said on the forums over the years), it's just easier to leave and restart the mission in order to get the same reward. There's no incentive in the game right now to push people. The closest we had to that was the void keys which weren't easy to get (I'm talking before syndicates became a thing). People frequently ran hour-long survivals and 60+ waves of defense in order to get that rare as hell prime part they need.

I wish we still had void keys in some form or another.

And somehow I should believe that re-buffing enemy damage in Orb Vallis is going to make people happy, when they're still going to get the same old rewards?

[Atsia]

Just now, LupisV0lk said:

It's funny how people are ignoring the issue and reason behind the "nerf" The enemies on fortuna were out damaging their leveled counterparts.

Oh yeah, every thread on it always talks about how the change was to "appease the newbs" even though the enemies were blatantly not working as intended.

[pig666eon]

2 minutes ago, LupisV0lk said:

It's funny how people are ignoring the issue and reason behind the "nerf" The enemies on fortuna were out damaging their leveled counterparts.

just because there was a reason doesnt make the points being made invalid

[--PV--Arc]

21 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

I have a diverse arsenal, and I utilize a lot of different frames for different missions (at least in sorties). The only difference between you and me, I don't nuke enemies from 60+ meters away by pressing one button then pretend I'm some hotshot pro who thinks the game lacks a challenge, because enemies got their damage halved. Seriously, the level you're going to in order to defend your noobish behavior is outstanding.

And I'll repeat what someone else said (not sure if it was here or some other thread), but frames like Nidus/Valkyr/Inaros can be as invulnerable as they like, but they can't put out nearly as much destruction as frames like Saryn, Volt, Mesa, and Equinox can. At least near-invulnerable tanks still have to worry about being overwhelmed by enemies, you just have to press 1 button to make it all go away.

So pro, very meta, wow.

And yet you cower inside a frame that's pretty much a bullet sponge. Stop thinking your "gameplay" (LOL) is any different level than the rest. There's a reason why people say Nidus is an afk frame.

Frames like mesa , saryn , volt , etc ACTUALLY DIE. My mesa's 95% Damage resistance was falling off at the highest tier bounties. I had to use my skill and weapons to survive.

If I had nidus/inaros? Meh. I wouldn't even need to worry about anything. Press a few random bottoms to build stacks/scarrab armor/throw sand , etc and I'm already a walking bullet sponge. To think actually using abilities is more noobish than sitting like a rock is laughable.

The only reason you point out the meta is because it actually contains * gasps * pressing buttons. Enjoy playing a bullet sponge all your life. I'm sure it's very rewarding "gameplay".

 

Is this how you flex? By playing something that can't die? and throw shade at people who actually carry you through the mission?

Edited November 16, 2018 by Arc2199

[LupisV0lk]

4 minutes ago, Atsia said:

Oh yeah, every thread on it always talks about how the change was to "appease the newbs" even though the enemies were blatantly not working as intended.

Yeah, the mental gymnastics are real with these people.

1 minute ago, pig666eon said:

just because there was a reason doesnt make the points being made invalid

Oh but they do, since they're being made off of a lie.

[--PV--Arc]

6 minutes ago, Atsia said:

Oh yeah, every thread on it always talks about how the change was to "appease the newbs" even though the enemies were blatantly not working as intended.

It's not about the working as intended part. It's about the fact that they were unarguably more fun than what we have right now.

The fact that they were/are different from their counterparts is unimportant.

[GrimAtrament]

unless de plans on doing a open world for every planet. "But its Venus." Is not a good counter argument. 

[--PV--Arc]

8 minutes ago, hazerddex said:

unless de plans on doing a open world for every planet. "But its Venus." Is not a good counter argument. 

FINALLY SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS!

It's a joke when people say that. The highest Tier bounties on Cetus aren't "new player" level either. Why should Fortuna be a of the same level as the rest of venus then?

Are only the new players allowed to have fun and face a challenge in the open world? The mental gymnastics people do here to blindly justify DE's decision is incredible. 

 

Because by that logic , it's going to take 5 years until DE reaches Sedna with their Open world schemes. Are we to contently wait until then? Just to experience something similar to pre-nerf Fortuna?

Edited November 16, 2018 by Arc2199

[Spectre-8]

49 minutes ago, zetheros1 said:

Nidus is actually very good for open fields, but using equinox and saryn efficiently enough to nuke bounty 5, and calling them 'press-4-to-win noobs' is paradoxical.

Saryn is a little bit too strong right now but definitely not a "press 4 to win "  , agreed.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Spectre-8

[--PV--Arc]

Just now, Spectre-8 said:

Saryn is a little bit too strong right now but definitely not a "press 4 to win " .

Exactly. The only frame that was Press 4 to win was Ember and we all know where she is now.

[Spectre-8]

Just now, Arc2199 said:

Exactly. The only frame that was Press 4 to win was Ember and we all know where she is now.

Em-who ? 🤣

[Hayabusa97]

30 minutes ago, LupisV0lk said:

Yeah, the mental gymnastics are real with these people.

Oh but they do, since they're being made off of a lie.

I mean imagine being a high level player with meta gear and getting pissed off about not being challenged by a starter planet. I mean sure, I don't find Orb Vallis particularly challenging, but that doesn't mean I don't find it fun to play

[--PV--Arc]

1 minute ago, Hayabusa97 said:

I mean imagine being a high level player with meta gear and getting pissed off about not being challenged by a starter planet. I mean sure, I don't find Orb Vallis particularly challenging, but that doesn't mean I don't find it fun to play 

Everything is fun for the easily entertained.

 

After the nerf the Orb Vallis has become a reskin of the plains. Seriously what difference is there that truly matters is there now? Calling it a whitewashed POE 2.0 is much more fitting name now than anything else. The bounties have become the same old slog.

[Ailyene]

The changes from 24.0.4 are getting rolled back and they are going to make more elite mobs spawn according to the recent Devstream.

Well, I hope the increased elite mobs keep things interesting since the damage rollback doesn't really change much except making the Terra Overtaker do 4x everything else's damage again and I am so far beyond damage numbers that even if they increased everything's hp/damage 3x I probably wouldn't notice.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Ailyene
Minor Typo

[Pizzarugi]

1 minute ago, Ailyene said:

The changes from 24.0.4 are getting rolled back and they are going to make more elite mobs spawn according to the recent Devstream.

Well, I hope the increased elite mobs keep thing interesting since the damage rollback doesn't really change much except making the Terra Overtaker do 4x everything else's damage again and I am so far beyond damage numbers that even if they increased everything's hp/damage 3x I probably wouldn't notice.

Agreed. I do love seeing the bigger spider bots enter the fight, especially the huge one with the omnilaser disc and the electric web. That's always an exciting fight.

[--PV--Arc]

3 minutes ago, Ailyene said:

The changes from 24.0.4 are getting rolled back and they are going to make more elite mobs spawn according to the recent Devstream.

Well, I hope the increased elite mobs keep things interesting since the damage rollback doesn't really change much except making the Terra Overtaker do 4x everything else's damage again and I am so far beyond damage numbers that even if they increased everything's hp/damage 3x I probably wouldn't notice. 

I don't think they said anything about a roll back. They said something along the lines of just adding elite units. I doubt it will be as good as before if those units spawn 20mins in at alert level 4.

[Hayabusa97]

1 minute ago, Ailyene said:

The changes from 24.0.4 are getting rolled back and they are going to make more elite mobs spawn according to the recent Devstream.

Well, I hope the increased elite mobs keep thing interesting since the damage rollback doesn't really change much except making the Terra Overtaker do 4x everything else's damage again and I am so far beyond damage numbers that even if they increased everything's hp/damage 3x I probably wouldn't notice.

Let's also not forget that this is still basically Phase 1 of ??. We still have more animals to add, new set mods, new kitgun pieces, more moa parts, etc. Not to mention the main event: The Orb Mother fights.

[seprent]

1 minute ago, Hayabusa97 said:

Let's also not forget that this is still basically Phase 1 of ??. We still have more animals to add, new set mods, new kitgun pieces, more moa parts, etc. Not to mention the main event: The Orb Mother fights.

didnt steeve said it would going to be more involved then just shoot riven DPS repeat?

i was really tired during dev stream so i cant remember (making breakfast burritos to fix this) 

[Pizzarugi]

4 minutes ago, Arc2199 said:

I don't think they said anything about a roll back. They said something along the lines of just adding elite units. I doubt it will be as good as before if those units spawn 20mins in at alert level 4.

I don't think they're gonna be relegated to Alert 4. I've seen the real big spiders show up as early as Alert 1, and if DE is going to be increasing elite spawns, they'll be more noticeable at that level and crazy frequent in Alert 4.

Fighting 2+ of those things at once is gonna be fun.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Pizzarugi

[--PV--Arc]

1 minute ago, Hayabusa97 said:

Let's also not forget that this is still basically Phase 1 of ??. We still have more animals to add, new set mods, new kitgun pieces, more moa parts, etc. Not to mention the main event: The Orb Mother fights.

That's still going to be way different than playing in Fortuna against the normal enemies though which is what this thread is about.

[--PV--Arc]

5 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

I don't think they're gonna be relegated to Alert 4. I've seen the real big spiders show up as early as Alert 1, and if DE is going to be increasing elite spawns, they'll be more noticeable at that level and crazy frequent in Alert 4.

Fighting 2+ of those things at once is gonna be fun. 

YES! I CONCUR !