Can we postpone rail jack so that we can fix the things we have?

[Hmm...interesting.]

I know this may be controversial. People are really looking forward to rail jack, but there is so much to be desired with what we have now. Can we please hold off on rail jack for a little while and fix and improve things that we have now like the various game modes (sanctuary onslaught, all of the normal missions like spy, rescue, capture, etc., and most of all, archwing), enemy scaling, and damage and modding (I'm sure there are more, I just can't think of them right now). I'm really excited for rail jack too, but there are things that need to be addressed beforehand. Warframe is like a sandwich. We could keep adding shiny new toppings, but the bread is getting old, so the sandwich won't taste as good as it would with better bread. It needs a solid base.

[TheResult]

What part of Spy needs fixing?

[Elyndr]

Watch 

Sometimes to keep the lights on they have to make new content too. They are working on both.

[Loza03]

They held off things like the Sacrifice and Fortuna to fix weapon balancing. Search up 'Content Drought' in the forums to see how the Community reacted to THAT. They replaced one of their big content projects with a big rework project and everyone lost their minds.

I'm not in a hurry to see that repeated.

[wtflag]

They are working on QOL, balancing, bug fix and content concurrently in different teams.

Throwing a dozen cooks to roast the turkey doesn't make the turkey roast faster.

 

 

[Zelphagor]

Didn't early 2018 do weapon changes? We got riven changes too.  Chimera update did a ton of fixes(granted a few more bugs popped up). New jupiter tileset incoming and melee 3.0.
 

Archwing i'm sure will be looked at when railjack is on the horizon. I don't see many problems with regular missions. Modding and Damage Overhaul would need alot of man power that DE can't afford over pushing new content.

[Hmm...interesting.]

19 minutes ago, TheResult said:

What part of Spy needs fixing?

It's just boring right now. It doesn't really involve the enemies. I can just go in with Loki and just walk past enemies, casually do all the consoles and walk out like it was nothing. There should be a challenge involved.

[Hmm...interesting.]

The thing about a lot of the things that they've been changing haven't changed the way we play the game. And I don't know about you guys, but I think that there is a lot to be desired when talking about gameplay. For example, rivens have been messed up for so long, and it wouldn't be too difficult to make changes for the better. Easy things like removing Serration and just building the damage into the weapon's level, improving the numbers on mods like Rifle Aptitude, among other things. Right now it just seems like there's no reason for us as players to go back to give things a second look.

[Xaero]

6 minutes ago, Hmm...interesting. said:

It's just boring right now. It doesn't really involve the enemies. I can just go in with Loki and just walk past enemies, casually do all the consoles and walk out like it was nothing. There should be a challenge involved.

And your suggestion is..? "Change spy missions, they are boring" is not a constructive feedback.

[artemisfortune]

6 minutes ago, Hmm...interesting. said:

It's just boring right now. It doesn't really involve the enemies. I can just go in with Loki and just walk past enemies, casually do all the consoles and walk out like it was nothing. There should be a challenge involved.

You're using the frame that's built around making Spy as easy as possible. That's like complaining that hacking isn't involved enough because you use ciphers every time.

DE can't just stop producing new content, as much as we wish they could drop everything and masterfully polish what already exists, they simply can't. It doesn't work that way. We have been getting plenty of QoL though, and melee 3.0 is just around the corner, which is a huge plus and a much needed revision for melee.

[Hmm...interesting.]

Just now, Ksaero said:

And your suggestion is..? "Change spy missions, they are boring" is not a constructive feedback.

My suggestion is to make enemies involved in the spy missions. As it stands, I can just walk past enemies to do the objective. There should be multiple stage objectives like there are in bounties, for example, having to take a datamass from an enemy or breaking into a room to steal a key or disable cameras, all while not alerting alarms. Also make enemies be alerted by noises such as sensors being smashed or fans leading to pathways being broken. This could allow them to activate a safety protocol that will make it more difficult for us as players to get to the final objective.

[TheResult]

12 minutes ago, Hmm...interesting. said:

It's just boring right now. It doesn't really involve the enemies. I can just go in with Loki and just walk past enemies, casually do all the consoles and walk out like it was nothing. There should be a challenge involved.

I mean, the obvious change would be "enemies in Spy missions just completely ignore invisibility", but personally I don't think Spy missions are boring. Some of the most fun I have in the base game, honestly. Just grabbing a pal or two and running Spy missions for fun.

[clxrffdman]

Only gamemode i see there that makes any sense to me for changing is so/eso and archwing, but apparently the archwing polishing/reworking wull be coming with railjack, so...

[Hmm...interesting.]

6 minutes ago, Parzii said:

You're using the frame that's built around making Spy as easy as possible. That's like complaining that hacking isn't involved enough because you use ciphers every time.

DE can't just stop producing new content, as much as we wish they could drop everything and masterfully polish what already exists, they simply can't. It doesn't work that way. We have been getting plenty of QoL though, and melee 3.0 is just around the corner, which is a huge plus and a much needed revision for melee.

My belief (and maybe this is just me, I don't know) is that a mission should be possibly easier with a particular frame, but make the objective difficult and strategic enough that there is still a challenge, even with optimal frames.

I can say, however, that I am very excited for melee 3.0

[Infirito]

Just now, Hmm...interesting. said:

It's just boring right now. It doesn't really involve the enemies. I can just go in with Loki and just walk past enemies, casually do all the consoles and walk out like it was nothing. There should be a challenge involved.

You do realize it's a SPY mission, right? If anything, I think DE should add a separate stealth-based bounties to Venus.

The real thing that needs fixing is lighting engine that got hit with Mainline, I do hope DE will manage to undo that soon.

[Hmm...interesting.]

Just now, clxrffdman said:

Only gamemode i see there that makes any sense to me for changing is so/eso and archwing, but apparently the archwing polishing/reworking wull be coming with railjack, so...

I did not know this. I'm glad that is coming with railjack.

[artemisfortune]

2 minutes ago, Hmm...interesting. said:

My suggestion is to make enemies involved in the spy missions. As it stands, I can just walk past enemies to do the objective. There should be multiple stage objectives like there are in bounties, for example, having to take a datamass from an enemy or breaking into a room to steal a key or disable cameras, all while not alerting alarms. Also make enemies be alerted by noises such as sensors being smashed or fans leading to pathways being broken. This could allow them to activate a safety protocol that will make it more difficult for us as players to get to the final objective.

This game has light stealth mechanics that play to it's strengths of being a hoard game. Adding hardcore stealth mechanics would be a waste of time as it would artificially increase the time of these missions, which doesn't really make sense in this game. It would be cool if it was apart of some kind of endgame raid or quest, but completely revising spy to be these long stealth only missions? Most people would likely stop playing spy, and dread seeing it pop up in fissures or sorties.

[Hmm...interesting.]

1 minute ago, Infirito said:

You do realize it's a SPY mission, right? If anything, I think DE should add a separate stealth-based bounties to Venus.

The real thing that needs fixing is lighting engine that got hit with Mainline, I do hope DE will manage to undo that soon.

I don't see your point with the first part, but I do agree they should add stealth based gameplay to Venus.

[Hmm...interesting.]

1 minute ago, Parzii said:

This game has light stealth mechanics that play to it's strengths of being a hoard game. Adding hardcore stealth mechanics would be a waste of time as it would artificially increase the time of these missions, which doesn't really make sense in this game. It would be cool if it was apart of some kind of endgame raid or quest, but completely revising spy to be these long stealth only missions? Most people would likely stop playing spy, and dread seeing it pop up in fissures or sorties.

If the goal is to have a hoard game, why is there stealth in this game at all? Since there is a spy game mode, I think that they should at least make it interesting.

[ComCray]

12 minutes ago, Hmm...interesting. said:

It's just boring right now. It doesn't really involve the enemies. I can just go in with Loki and just walk past enemies, casually do all the consoles and walk out like it was nothing. There should be a challenge involved.

Oh? And how does Loki help you get passed those laser barriers? You wanna be using Ivara bro! How does Loki help you with the hacking? Oh you brought ciphers...

You can also bring Ember and in Ignis, don't even have to see the enemy then...

Warframe is, unlike other games, not a linear game that slowly ramps up the challenge. Warframe is a box full of fun stuff to do and building the challenge is really up to you.
For instance - Take Excalibur and a Skana to Mot. You cannot use powers but blind and dash. See how long you can survive.. (iron man style: dead is dead)  I promise you: it's really challenging and a great feeling when you manage to get above 30 mins. And your gameplay will improve significantly..

If you think this is gimping yourself, consider this: Football (soccer for you Americans) would be SO Much Easier if you could just pick up the ball and shoot the opposition with a chaingun, from a helicopter. But then we wouldn't call it football anymore, we'd call it "a massacre". And not matter how much fun a massacre really is (when you're the one causing it), it's not football and hardly challenging. So, challenging sports ALWAYS have rules to gimp the players.
You want challenge? You need to be gimped. You don't want to be gimped, then go and cause mayhem - and indulge in that.

[Infirito]

Just now, Hmm...interesting. said:

I don't see your point with the first part, but I do agree they should add stealth based gameplay to Venus.

Spy is supposed to be unseen, if enemy knows that you're stealing their stuff then it's just a robbery. Spy missions need to focus on stealth.

Here's an idea, Spy game modifier (like nightmare) with sabotage, assassinations, captures etc. that would require you to stay unseen. And something to do for the 4th player would also help.

 

But again, stealth should be the main part here.

[Hmm...interesting.]

2 minutes ago, ComCray said:

Oh? And how does Loki help you get passed those laser barriers? You wanna be using Ivara bro! How does Loki help you with the hacking? Oh you brought ciphers...

You can also bring Ember and in Ignis, don't even have to see the enemy then...

Warframe is, unlike other games, not a linear game that slowly ramps up the challenge. Warframe is a box full of fun stuff to do and building the challenge is really up to you.
For instance - Take Excalibur and a Skana to Mot. You cannot use powers but blind and dash. See how long you can survive.. (iron man style: dead is dead)  I promise you: it's really challenging and a great feeling when you manage to get above 30 mins. And your gameplay will improve significantly..

If you think this is gimping yourself, consider this: Football (soccer for you Americans) would be SO Much Easier if you could just pick up the ball and shoot the opposition with a chaingun, from a helicopter. But then we wouldn't call it football anymore, we'd call it "a massacre". And not matter how much fun a massacre really is (when you're the one causing it), it's not football and hardly challenging. So, challenging sports ALWAYS have rules to gimp the players.
You want challenge? You need to be gimped. You don't want to be gimped, then go and cause mayhem - and indulge in that.

I see what you're talking about, but here is the problem with your solution and your analogy. In football/soccer, you are simply not allowed to pick it up with your hands and do all the other stuff, and that's what makes it interesting and unique. In Warframe, we are allowed to "pick it up with our hands." With the challenging yourself thing, aside from the thrill of doing it, there is no other incentive.

[Hmm...interesting.]

3 minutes ago, Infirito said:

Spy is supposed to be unseen, if enemy knows that you're stealing their stuff then it's just a robbery. Spy missions need to focus on stealth.

Here's an idea, Spy game modifier (like nightmare) with sabotage, assassinations, captures etc. that would require you to stay unseen. And something to do for the 4th player would also help.

 

But again, stealth should be the main part here.

That is part of the point that I was making. I just want the mission to be more interesting than "go in, do the thing, and leave".

Edited November 15, 2018 by Hmm...interesting.

[Firetempest]

 

12 minutes ago, Hmm...interesting. said:

If the goal is to have a hoard game, why is there stealth in this game at all? Since there is a spy game mode, I think that they should at least make it interesting.

People wanted to be Ninja's. And be unstoppable. So overpowered frames, overpowered augments. And minimal permutations per room made it a breeze, BUT it was worse at one time.

Spy 1.0 was run to random terminal, hack, run to next terminal, hack. And so on up to 4 times then head to exit. Had to run out of revives to fail. 

With 2.0 alarms if you are seen, it was slightly harder in a 'puzzle' room. But the rooms only really change on planet difficulty tier. And even then you have the option to choose a spy defeating frame like Loki.

Lua was the last iteration on spy which was far more difficult and instead of enemies relied on parkour challenges. But it's too hard for DEs average player so it's staying off to the side in Lua.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Firetempest

[ComCray]

Just now, Hmm...interesting. said:

aside from the thrill of doing it, there is no other incentive

wut..? You need another incentive to play warframe then the thrill of doing it? Getting better at it? Develop some actual skill in the game? Actually just play the game because you ...like the game?

I'm starting to see a theme in these posts of late... I'm starting to think most of you don't actually like the game, just the notion of getting "free stuff".. for free.. 

Makes me sad...