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Geruda Buff/Balance Request


skullkid558
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Been playing, forma-ing and generally trying to master Geruda recently, but I've been running into some rather... Firm inconveniences. I've noticed a few heavily discouraging issues with her balance.
To be frank, she needs a bit of buffing, as well as some balance or even possibly reworks to her ability set.

 

POWAH #1
Her first ability is decent, but a bit lacking. It deals little damage on a hit, the main draw of the attack seemingly being the mirror and the heart which can be used to dish out some nice one-hit damage.
However, the flat damage of the leap is scoff-worthy and can only insta-kill at 30% or less HP. Most enemies, if you've brought them to this level of HP, are likely small fries in the first place and will tend to die easily to nearly any weapon with greater efficiency than the use of this ability.

HOWEVER, by far the worst aspect of this ability is that it thrusts Geruda's already squishy frame directly into CQC or even groups of enemies.
I'd suggest making this skill a one-handed cast in order to allow its use even whilst firing, making it more viable for catching low-HP foes before allies or yourself mow them down.
In addition, I suggest making it so that it can be used at a distance to wrench the life out of foes, so as to make it less risky to utilize given its somewhat low efficiency as a finishing tool in the midst of a multi-foe scuffle.

It'd be great if it were more effective for picking off the weak in such a calculated method of assasination.

POWAH #2
The second ability... Is garbo. I wish it were better, because it's my favorite of her entire kit for style and theme alone.
It's by far one of the most poorly-balanced healing abilities I've seen in Warframe thus far, for numerous reasons, but it also negatively reflects upon Geruda's balance in the meta.

 

The ability's range is minor, which in itself isn't an awful thing. The healing factor is also not so great, which can be increased with mods... And the duration is a touch low for a heal-over-time that heavily depends on Range as well as Strength, which also requires mods to fix.

See, the greatest flaw of this ability is that it's just generally ineffective. In order to fix any one of these three problems, one of the other stats take a heavy hit.
 

With low duration, the skill is useless because the healing is done over time, rather than having the total amount spread or condensed based upon the duration.
Duration maxing also severely hampers range.

With low strength, having a high duration or range becomes meaningless. The scaling is just too poor. You might as well just rely on the Regeneration aura for all the good it does.
Maxing Strength causes severe drops in duration, as does increasing efficiency (which will be further discussed further into this), to the point of having a mere two or three seconds of healing...
Which outright negates the benefit of maxing Strength in the first place.

With low range, Geruda is limited to standing in her barely two-frames across AoE else become unable to heal and benefit from it. This makes her extremely vulnerable and hampers her possible playstyles to the point of being pinned down else her squishy self be shredded.
Worse, maxing range makes the healing factor of her AoE so abysmal I could cry in pity for the frame.

Even if you balance your mods, rather than max... The ability is so mediocre it's a joke. Stacked with both basic mods and those from the PoE expansion, the ability heals more slowly than any I've seen before, still has a range than is worthy of an anxious chuckle and lasts at its best about twenty to thirty seconds.
Please consider other warframes' healing abilities and rebalance this skill so that it remains competitive with them.

POWAH #3
An energy gain ability. So far so good.
Drains HP for energy. Uh... Okay. A bit risky for such a squishy frame, but it's not a first. Can be used well if she can keep her shield up and heal with those AoEs... Well, maybe not the AoEs.
...At a rate of 25% energy unmodded, up to 100% energy refilled... Oh. That sounds alright. I mean, the 100% drops my Duration by 60%, but it's not like the healing AoE was that useful anyways?
...For a flat 50% value of Geruda's HP. What? But with only Streamline, that's 35% energy for 50% HP...
And 25% energy unmodded? Defuq? That's a horrible trade off. Just Rage on its own would be more way moreefficient than that, wouldn't it? Less Duration-dumping too.

Why is this so bad if it only benefits Geruda, anyways? Don't Harrow and Trinity have way more efficient and team-friendly versions of this that, when optimized, don't so severely hamper the rest of their abilities? Seriously, this ability needs to either apply to allies to make up for this or it needs to be made less punishing in its trade-off for HP versus energy.

I'd suggest 30% HP for 25% energy unmodded and/or making it so that any allies in the party that are taking damage at the time the skill activates gain energy equal to half of that Geruda gains.

POWAH #4
There's not really much reason to use this skill at all. The energy consumption, when compared to the damage per blade and the bleeding stack durations/damage... It's just far more efficient, effective and time-saving to utilize nearly any actual ranged weapon in the game. IMO, this should be the first ability in Geruda's slots given the damage it outputs and range it covers, even with maxed Strength and Duration.

If this is the method the ability is reworked in, I really hope the other abilities would be brought up to snuff as they're shifted, without too horribly bloating their energy costs without additionally fixing and buffing their actual capabilities.

 

IN SUMMARY

With low health and barely any armor, as well as little in the way of defensive abilities aside from a one-directional mirror that can only be activated by hopping into CQC, Geruda is a poor tank/wall.

With poor ability range coverage, duration and an outright pitiful healing factor compared to every other frame, Geruda makes a lame support healer.
Even stacking three, the energy cost versus the overall increase in these factors remains pretty lame.

With only her first ability dealing decent damage, though requiring at least a quick charge and a risky hop or two into CQC -her final ability's viability is akin to a wet napkin with a slightly sharp dry edge-, she can't function as DPS using her abilities alone. Even counting her innate melee when not otherwise equipped with one, almost any melee weapon can easily match it and most ranged weapons can drastically outpace both without venting even a smidgen of energy.

 

And since her only abilities are: Smol barrier after CQC leap, pathetic heal-over-time in a smol AoE of mediocre duration, gimpy energy gain for a non-reduceable 50% HP loss (user only), as well as an on-screen seeking attack with negligible one-hit damage and low-power, low duration bleeding...

Well, she has two questionable DPS-ish ability, one inefficient low-coverage heal, one low-efficiency self-only HP-to-energy trade off.
She just doesn't accel at ANYTHING, nor can she viably survive, help her allies or even assassinate targets without risking herself in a kill that she'd be better off achieving via shoot'ems.

AS SUCH...
Please buff and/or rework Geruda. I love her theme. The gore of her first ability and the stylish sacrificial post of her second are awesome, but they just aren't all that good.
Even optimized, they barely reach the tier of 'okay' and can't compare to any other warframe in terms of how poorly they function solo, let alone in a team.

Here's everything with no mods, max level: https://imgur.com/TLHw6fI
With mods, an effort to increase the range so that the healing AoE is at least somewhat viable when not under heavier fire or when struck so hard one insta-downs: https://imgur.com/28CkwBO
The mods used to achieve the above: https://imgur.com/VZyETYk

Edited by skullkid558
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PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT.

Her 1 is a hard knock down which leaves them open for finisher damage.  So if you pounced an HVT you could kill it right then and there.  Or if you jumped near enemies you can just turn it right into a blood altar.  If you're pouncing is getting you killed maybe pick different targets.  like someone straying from the group or the dude in the front of the group.  The instant kill thing isn't the main point of the ability and is a cherry on top.  When you're playing at high level's you can easily rid yourself of an annoying enemy.  Like a nox.  Also if you're using her like a melee frame and meleeing often then you'll end up using this more.  Also the "but guns can kill" shpeel is getting annoying.  why use any damage ability when me have gun?  like.  ugh.

 

Bruh her heal is good.  It heals based on MISSING health.  Literally the first tick gives you 50% of your HP back.  You can LITERALLY SPAM her 3 inside her heal and still not get screwed on how much health you have.  Not only that but you can freaking STACK it's healing with 2 other altars.  The only bad thing about this ability is it's base range.  6 meters is ucky.

Her 3 is absolutely fine.  As I said you can spam it inside an altar and be fine.  and you almost always have protection via the shield.  it doesn't need any changes what so ever.

"no reason to use her 4..." WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAT.  You can force slash procs to happen 100% of the time on any source of damage yours or an allies.  and the slash proc it does is based on the freaking damage of the thing you're using.  Like.  it's hunter munitions but for the entire squad. omggg.

Her 1 and 4's cast time are sluggish.  Her 2's base range is bad.  That's really it.  everything else about her is freaking fantastic.

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7 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT.

Her 1 is a hard knock down which leaves them open for finisher damage.  So if you pounced an HVT you could kill it right then and there.  Or if you jumped near enemies you can just turn it right into a blood altar.  If you're pouncing is getting you killed maybe pick different targets.  like someone straying from the group or the dude in the front of the group.  The instant kill thing isn't the main point of the ability and is a cherry on top.  When you're playing at high level's you can easily rid yourself of an annoying enemy.  Like a nox.  Also if you're using her like a melee frame and meleeing often then you'll end up using this more.  Also the "but guns can kill" shpeel is getting annoying.  why use any damage ability when me have gun?  like.  ugh.

 

Bruh her heal is good.  It heals based on MISSING health.  Literally the first tick gives you 50% of your HP back.  You can LITERALLY SPAM her 3 inside her heal and still not get screwed on how much health you have.  Not only that but you can freaking STACK it's healing with 2 other altars.  The only bad thing about this ability is it's base range.  6 meters is ucky.

Her 3 is absolutely fine.  As I said you can spam it inside an altar and be fine.  and you almost always have protection via the shield.  it doesn't need any changes what so ever.

"no reason to use her 4..." WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAT.  You can force slash procs to happen 100% of the time on any source of damage yours or an allies.  and the slash proc it does is based on the freaking damage of the thing you're using.  Like.  it's hunter munitions but for the entire squad. omggg.

Her 1 and 4's cast time are sluggish.  Her 2's base range is bad.  That's really it.  everything else about her is freaking fantastic.

Her shield is useless she needs a damage reduction skill that absorbs damage as her shield because a shield for a frame like her Is completely $&*&*#(%&ed.

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38 minutes ago, CodeUltimate said:

Her shield is useless she needs a damage reduction skill that absorbs damage as her shield because a shield for a frame like her Is completely $&*&*#(%&ed.

lol no it's not and she doesn't.  If it's completely fine for volt to carry around his shield at extra energy cost and a restricted weapon than her's is completely fine.  y'all need to chill just because you don't get how to use the frame doesn't make her bad.

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4 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

lol no it's not and she doesn't.  If it's completely fine for volt to carry around his shield at extra energy cost and a restricted weapon than her's is completely fine.  y'all need to chill just because you don't get how to use the frame doesn't make her bad.

You don't even Know what you are talking about. Volt is mean to be used in another way if you think about it he is an even better camper than garuda you can deploy more shields in different directions you can cc with your 4 in other words your abilities do not "expose" you to unnecesary risky situations. You are assuming I don't Know how to use garuda but trust me I have tried many builds with her and I'm not saying she is utterly trash but she doesn't make sense because  her skills contradict themselves. Now if you are salty because volt has to hold his shield then sure you can make suggestion for changing volt skills but don't get annoyed that other frame can use a shield without "restrictions" even though the shield itself restricts how garuda should be played lel.

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9 hours ago, CodeUltimate said:

You don't even Know what you are talking about. Volt is mean to be used in another way if you think about it he is an even better camper than garuda you can deploy more shields in different directions you can cc with your 4 in other words your abilities do not "expose" you to unnecesary risky situations. You are assuming I don't Know how to use garuda but trust me I have tried many builds with her and I'm not saying she is utterly trash but she doesn't make sense because  her skills contradict themselves. Now if you are salty because volt has to hold his shield then sure you can make suggestion for changing volt skills but don't get annoyed that other frame can use a shield without "restrictions" even though the shield itself restricts how garuda should be played lel.

Neither Garuda nor volt are meant to be campers.  neither have anything that really asks them to do so nor are either of them great at it.  Both are fragile.  Volt is survivable through cc alone and his stationary shield gives him a bit more protection if he needs to stop for a second.  Garuda's survivability comes from her health and her speed.  except her speed isn't flat out like volts speed boost.  Hers is in the base 30 meters (that can be increased to insane amounts) for her 1 and 2.

Meaning if she doesn't like the situation she can literally nope the heck out. And all though it's not optimal to do so if she REALLY needed to she could tap her 4 to stun the enemies in the most immediate threatening area.  Her 1 is a hard knock down which basically means dead or blood altar for the target because finisher damage.  And blood altar heals based on missing health.  meaning if she's recieving strong burst damage she'll continually get back 50% of her missing HP from the altar.  and of course she can create two more on top of that if he's actually receiving too much burst.  As her altar healing stacks.

Her skills are not contradictory.  They just don't do what you'd like them to do.  Her whole kit is a loop.  health=energy=health.  And due to the nature of her kit she's always missing some health meaning her passive is always in some effect.  Her 1 and 2's range allow for both engaging and disengaging.  Her 2 and 3 constantly play off of eachother to make sure you always have both health and energy.  her 4 is a non LoS locked cc that is a debuff the entire team can use.  And her 1 and 4 let her panic clear an area if she needs to.

 

I made the comparison to volt's shield for a very specific reason.  Because you guys are playing favorites.  People wanted a mobile shield for volt because the stationary one was opposite of volts whole nature i.e constantly move.  So DE gave this but at a cost.  it takes energy to constantly move.  And you can only use your secondary weapon wise.  The situation is very similar with Garuda.  She want's to be moving constantly as she's actually kind of a melee frame.  Her abilities don't encourage her to stay in one place any longer that most frames.  If Altar was a slow heal maybe.  But it's missing health based.  Meaning you get most of your health back and then you bounce.  But anyway.  Both kits need to be moving.  Volt lives from cc but the mobile shield is helpful.

Garuda lives from killing.  And the mobile shield is required.  But mainly for damage building.  Not really from blocking damage to save you.  So in this instance (where both are using a mobile shield) Garuda is better off.  Because she's not asked to spend extra energy to have that shield.  Nor is she restricted on using her arsenal in anyway.  The best argument that you can make against this comparison is the fact that volt doesn't need his mobile shield.  Where as garuda literally needs hers to build damage for the blood orb.  And that's a fair argument.  But not my point.

My point was both are frames that do not have any damage reduction abilities.  Thus both want to be moving a lot.  If people can be fine with volts restricted mobile shield than people should be fine with garuda's non restricted mobile shield.  It's that simple.  Oh and the only reason I even assumed you didn't know how to play her was because you started this whole thing off by basically implying the shield isn't good enough because she still dies with or without it rather easily.

 

If you're actually playing Garuda good with a proper build she's just as survivable as any other non tank frame.  Except she's got a slight edge with being able to heal herself.

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19 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

-snip-

Well the thing is she has flaws in her design slow charging skills when she cannot be in one place for too long. Her 1 takes her so Close to enemies and if you actually played her in actual high level you would she can get one shotted in the aire while doing her 1 because her shield activates after doing the attack and even then you can still be one shotted in the back while summoning the shield. She is by no means built in an efficient way that encourages what you just said. What I'm trying to say is that garuda fails miserably on both ends.

 

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4 hours ago, CodeUltimate said:

Well the thing is she has flaws in her design slow charging skills when she cannot be in one place for too long. Her 1 takes her so Close to enemies and if you actually played her in actual high level you would she can get one shotted in the aire while doing her 1 because her shield activates after doing the attack and even then you can still be one shotted in the back while summoning the shield. She is by no means built in an efficient way that encourages what you just said. What I'm trying to say is that garuda fails miserably on both ends.

 

I've seen footage of her surviving an hour in MoT and said person wasn't even using a vitality mod.  So.

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2 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

I've seen footage of her surviving an hour in MoT and said person wasn't even using a vitality mod.  So.

he was using quick thinking. But the thing is I'm not saying it is impossible to survive with her you can do that even with other squishy frames too, what I'm trying to say is that the amount of effort you have to put to make her viable does not justify the end results. I'm just asking for better synergy in her skills and something that does not restrict her playstyle too much. :c

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1 hour ago, CodeUltimate said:

he was using quick thinking. But the thing is I'm not saying it is impossible to survive with her you can do that even with other squishy frames too, what I'm trying to say is that the amount of effort you have to put to make her viable does not justify the end results. I'm just asking for better synergy in her skills and something that does not restrict her playstyle too much. :c

I disagree.  I think she's viable without having to do anything super extra.

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They should just make Garuda invincible for a few seconds during and after casting her 1 so you can get to a place where you can use the shield better (like gara when she’s making her wall). I think her 2 just needs a bit more base range to be more effective. And her 4 just needs the base cast speed to be a bit faster. She’s already great but needs just a few tweaks to be perfect.

Edited by (PS4)i7081277
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