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Garuda is weak or is just me?


Azrra
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2 hours ago, 420-chan said:

There was no wooosh. I know you weren't being serious with your remark but I'm telling you that it's  not as absurd as you think it is. 

Nope it is absurd.  But that's fine.  I was an arse and worded it in a loaded way in attempts to show how ridiculous your talk about heals was.

2 hours ago, 420-chan said:

I don't see how you can justify Garuda's healing against Harrow, Trinity, or Oberon's heal. All 3 of them heal in a far larger area that doesn't require your teammates to do anything specific to receive the healing. More importantly, their healing skills also do something useful outside of just healing. Trinity's 4 gives damage resistance; Harrow's 2 massively boost his damage output; Oberon's 3 revives teammates with augment. Garuda... crowd controls a target that should just be killed instead? It's literally a worse Trinity 1, and I haven't seen anyone justify that skill. 

I don't have to justify anything.  Why?  Because no shred of content in this game needs optimal gameplay and 90% of the frames in the game with some combination of gear can solo carry a team in any content.  If you prefer playing the most optimal way possible more power to you.  That's irrelevant for any content anyone is realistically playing on a consistent basis.  It's free health for anyone in it's area.  That's justification enough for most who play.

2 hours ago, 420-chan said:

Like I said before, there is no trade-off for using Magus Elevate. No other operator arcane is worth using. You either have it or you don't have an optimal build. Here's how Magus Elevate works: a single max rank Elevate has a 75% chance to heal your warframe for 200 when you press 5 and go into Operator mode. With a double set, this is on average 300 heal for simply pressing 5 twice. Also VERY importantly, you're completely immune to damage during the process of switching to operator and back. If you're at 2 health, you simply press 5 four times and you'll on average be restored to 602 health while being completely immune for the duration. It doesn't require you to jump into danger or to see an enemy in the first place to make use of it. Tell me how an on demand heal with built-in invincibility frame doesn't make Garuda's 2 obsolete?

Thanks for the explanation on how it works.  But I wasn't claiming her heal was better.  My point was that people will typically stack health/energy gains if possible and not detrimental to their build.  Because there's no reason not to.

2 hours ago, 420-chan said:

Garuda is actually pretty anti-synergy when you actually consider your main role. Let's not pretend she provides anything to her team other than her 4, which requires her to be in a safe position to cast due to its long casting time. But her 1 and 2 encourage her to be in the fray. This leads to a very disjointed gameplay where one moment you're jumping into danger to cast your skills, and soon after you need to retreat into safety to cast you're 4. The most optimal way to play Garuda is to always stay at minimal health using your 3, and casting 4 as often as possible. Her healing is detrimental to that since it just gimps your damage. If you're in danger and need healing for some reason, would you want to put yourself in further danger by jumping into enemies to make an altar? Or just press 5 a couple times?

The fact that you think she's best played at a distance either means you don't know how to play her or you don't get her kit.  There is nothing anti synergetic about her.  Distance means nothing to her because of her absurd range on her 1 and 2.  And squishy ish frames like her are encouraged to be moving around a lot.  So her going from one spot to another is normal.  And you're over compensating with that safety comment.  Her 4 doesn't require LoS and 90% of warframe is a hallway simulator.  Chances are where ever you are there is a wall or some box that you can safely move behind if your shield isn't up to proc people through it.

The damage bonus she gets from her passive is not an integral part of her kit.  None of her abilities are damage skills really.  The utility of her 1 and 4 out weigh the meger damage they do on their own.  And the shield's mechanic plus her 4's proc is where a majority of her damage comes from anyway.  not the damage buff in her passive.  The only reason you'd even bother trying to min max her passive (which hey that's the reason why your view on her is borked to begin with) is to boost your weapon damage even further.  And as i've already stated if you REALLY wanted to play that way a quick thinking build with primed flow fits that.

And as i've already explained beforehand her kit is about giving and taking both health and energy constantly.  You don't see that flow despite me explaining.  Not my problem.  She's not meant to be low health.  She just gets bonuses for missing health.  It's that simple.

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Well, I personally use Garuda as a gunplay caster by spamming her 4 and using guns or swords to literally destroy anything with her mark in that limited amount of time. Her other skills literally aren't cutting it for me.

I use her 1 for a convenient bullet shield and her 2 as nothing more than a selfish heal so I can pop 3. I build entirely for the 4, which I feel deserves to cost less energy, maybe 75 like Saryn's 4

But can you imagine how amazing Garuda can be with an Ignis Wraith?

Edited by Guest
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Compared to a lot of other frames after I've tooled with her a bit, yes she is imo.  Everything that she could have as a niche is more pronounced on another frame

Self healing? Inaros

Single target DPS? Ash

Room wipe? Octavia

Shield? Volt

T&A? Saran (as usual)

Group utility/support? Nova, Trinity, Oberon, Banshee, Octavia, etc

Until her animations aren't so drawn out, her kit less clunky, and her shield covers more than just in front of her, she's Zephyr tier for me.

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7 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Nope it is absurd.  But that's fine.  I was an arse and worded it in a loaded way in attempts to show how ridiculous your talk about heals was.

I don't have to justify anything.  Why?  Because no shred of content in this game needs optimal gameplay and 90% of the frames in the game with some combination of gear can solo carry a team in any content.  If you prefer playing the most optimal way possible more power to you.  That's irrelevant for any content anyone is realistically playing on a consistent basis.  It's free health for anyone in it's area.  That's justification enough for most who play.

Thanks for the explanation on how it works.  But I wasn't claiming her heal was better.  My point was that people will typically stack health/energy gains if possible and not detrimental to their build.  Because there's no reason not to.

The fact that you think she's best played at a distance either means you don't know how to play her or you don't get her kit.  There is nothing anti synergetic about her.  Distance means nothing to her because of her absurd range on her 1 and 2.  And squishy ish frames like her are encouraged to be moving around a lot.  So her going from one spot to another is normal.  And you're over compensating with that safety comment.  Her 4 doesn't require LoS and 90% of warframe is a hallway simulator.  Chances are where ever you are there is a wall or some box that you can safely move behind if your shield isn't up to proc people through it.

The damage bonus she gets from her passive is not an integral part of her kit.  None of her abilities are damage skills really.  The utility of her 1 and 4 out weigh the meger damage they do on their own.  And the shield's mechanic plus her 4's proc is where a majority of her damage comes from anyway.  not the damage buff in her passive.  The only reason you'd even bother trying to min max her passive (which hey that's the reason why your view on her is borked to begin with) is to boost your weapon damage even further.  And as i've already stated if you REALLY wanted to play that way a quick thinking build with primed flow fits that.

And as i've already explained beforehand her kit is about giving and taking both health and energy constantly.  You don't see that flow despite me explaining.  Not my problem.  She's not meant to be low health.  She just gets bonuses for missing health.  It's that simple.

 The playstyle you're describing is fine but it has one big problem: it doesn't do anything special that warrants picking her over the meta frames.

Do you want to zip around the map meleeing everything to death? A Maiming Strike Volt or Valkyr will do that better and faster.

Do you want to be a general dps and utilize her abilities frequently to top team damage/kill? Too bad because the Mesa or Equinox already wiped the room while you were charging up your 4. Oh and if you have a Saryn in your team you may as well never press 4 because it's not going to hit anything. 

So you realized that Garuda is actually a bad dps frame and want to focus on boosting the team's damage with her 4? Well like I said this is the best playstyle because this is where she can actually potentially compete with other similar frames. Rhino and Octavia are still going to be far better in the vast majority of cases since they keep their damage-amplifying effect up constantly. Octavia also has the added benefit of granting team invisibility and insane damage/cc, but perhaps there are scenarios where Garuda's 4 adds more damage than Rhino Roar? Maybe you're doing level 300+ enemies and your team isn't running 100% armor strip with Corrosive Projection + Coaction Drift for some reason? Also Banshee is on a league of her own in terms of damage buffing, and Garuda isn't going to get anywhere close if you're talking big numbers against endurance run enemies. 

In a vacuum, every frame is viable in Warframe. You can solo sorties and Tridolons with any frame. But comparing frames against each other, not all frames are good. When I say Garuda is weak, I'm not saying that she can't clear content. I'm looking for reasons to use her over other frames. Mesa is pretty much the undisputed queen of bounty missions. Saryn is the standard ESO map-wiper, but Equinox or Volt can still be as good if not better in some cases. A support crew of Rhino and Trinity is usually welcome in premade ESO teams too. Frost is great for Defense and Excavation, but excellent cases can be made for Limbo or Gara. There's also speed runner frames such as Octavia, Nova and Volt for Sabotage and Rescue. Loki, Octavia, and Ivara for spy. Foreseeing yourself taking heavy fire and want to play a tanks frame, perhaps for surviving a long time in arbitration? Inaros Nidus Gara etc. Just want some good loot? Hydroid Nekros and Speedva. Chroma isn't commonly seen as a great frame but he's the de facto Eidolon killer. Support frames aren't all that necessary in normal content, but Trinity and Harrow both see a lot of play time in Eidolon hunts. Even the much-ridiculed Ember has a niche in speeding through low level Fissures and Exterminates. Oberon is probably the easiest Tridolon solo alongside Trinity, if that's your thing. Umbra is useful for afk index farming lmao. Mag is often talked of as underpowered but a small group of Mag enthusiasts know that she's an insane frame and her ability of holding chokepoints is unparalleled. I haven't even mentioned Staticor Mirage which is just bonkers and is a top pick in most things that involve killing.

Having said all that, where does Garuda come in? She suffers from the same problems as frames like Atlas and Revenant. What's her niche that she does better than everyone else? What reasons do I have to actually pick her, outside of preference and fashion?

Edited by 420-chan
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I think her frame needs a ton of tweaking to be specially viable for everyone even if it has a high difficulty curve. Her synergy is wonky, her shield is quite wonky as well. Her slash proc could become irrelevant in the upcoming updates and saying she is a frame for high level content only is not only a disservice to the frame but also a disservice to those who saw her in the beginning of their journey here and thought "that is the frame i want!"

From what I've heard, Garuda is the hannibal lecter version of Valkyr, which sounds strange because i remember back when valkyr prime was nothing but a conjecture that she would methodical with surgical precision in her attacks instead of reckless abandon. Since then now we have garuda ok here is my suggestions to make her better, at least synergize with her idea of thriving of blood like some sort of vampire.

 

Her 1 instead of relying of an initial impalement to start, she should have something akin to a mist, a miasma of sort with something similar to zepyr's turbulence but with a catch. It could have either 1) slowly fill with your blood with hits and becoming slowly impregnable to be akin to a shattershield with high damage reduction or 2) have that same idea but fill itself with the blood of your enemies that you kill with the claws the mist gets bloodier and bloddier and has two counters 1 forDR 1 for Damage Output. The process is twofold, if you need protection you can have it but if you need to kill a wave you can gather the miasma into her hands and nuke it if used with her other abilities.

Her 2 would be better if it becomes an effigy either attracts or repels the enemy when use to either heal you or buff your ranged damage. That would make it worthwhile to use it as a decoy and heal or as repel and buff. The desicion is up to you. 

Her 3 would synergize with her 1, using it to pump it with her own blood and increasing her energy count. Her animations could show her impaling herself on a body part. 

Her 4 feels good for the auto slash proc but it feels misguided the way its done, It would be better if either the portal she makes propels her like an arrow and marks those she touches and then if they werent killed with it will have the mark of death with auto slash proc or that she would absorb her miasma and shot a huge ball of blood that either kills and pins to the wall those who don't die or mark them with her blood to track and also be susceptible to slash procs. 

 

I feel these would make her viable for all content but much more akin to both the experienced or the beginner with the itch for a challenge. There's more to it but this is the basic gist of it all.

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6 hours ago, 420-chan said:

 The playstyle you're describing is fine but it has one big problem: it doesn't do anything special that warrants picking her over the meta frames.

A perceived problem.  Not an actual problem for the frame.  As I mentioned in my prior post optimal play isnt warrented realistically anywhere.  So it's perfectly fine if you want to say that you can't think of a reason to play her because you care about optimal behavior.  But I don't think DE should be actively designing warframes to replace any frame that might be meta at the time.  We already have issues with power creep.  We don't need to add more onto that.  DE imo should be designing frames for the fun/interesting factor.  Titania does absolutely nothing that's meta defining.  But I like her for her concept.  She's fun to play.

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Do you want to zip around the map meleeing everything to death? A Maiming Strike Volt or Valkyr will do that better and faster.

Do you want to be a general dps and utilize her abilities frequently to top team damage/kill? Too bad because the Mesa or Equinox already wiped the room while you were charging up your 4. Oh and if you have a Saryn in your team you may as well never press 4 because it's not going to hit anything. 

I don't care for memeing strike because it's boring.  Volt is a fun melee with his augment that stuns near by targets while he speed.  But he's not self sustain enough for my tastes for a melee frame.  Valkyr is my baby.  But her playstyle is boring because you sit in warcry the entire time soaking damage and using a basic melee.  Only using her 3 to deal with thing like bombards or nox.  Popping into 4 if you're going to die.  Nah I wouldn't user her like that because her dps is awful.  She can nuke but I wouldn't consider her a nuke frame.

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So you realized that Garuda is actually a bad dps frame and want to focus on boosting the team's damage with her 4? Well like I said this is the best playstyle because this is where she can actually potentially compete with other similar frames. Rhino and Octavia are still going to be far better in the vast majority of cases since they keep their damage-amplifying effect up constantly. Octavia also has the added benefit of granting team invisibility and insane damage/cc, but perhaps there are scenarios where Garuda's 4 adds more damage than Rhino Roar? Maybe you're doing level 300+ enemies and your team isn't running 100% armor strip with Corrosive Projection + Coaction Drift for some reason? Also Banshee is on a league of her own in terms of damage buffing, and Garuda isn't going to get anywhere close if you're talking big numbers against endurance run enemies. 

Octavia is best overall.  But it requires her team to play around her.  Which if your solo que means only on small tile sets like hydron.  And while I like octavia I don't enjoy her gameplay of having to constantly crouch to refresh invis and letting the game kill itself.  So I wouldn't pick her over garuda for team DPS.  Rhino's buff is the easiest of the 3 frames in question to give.  But I think giving true damage to all damage sources is more valuable in a vacuum compared to just straight boosting damage.  So I'd pick rhino if I wanted to do buff and cc as stomp is still an insanely strong cc these days.  Banshee's boosts probably out shine garuda's but imo I think they'ed actually make a good parring.

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In a vacuum, every frame is viable in Warframe. You can solo sorties and Tridolons with any frame. But comparing frames against each other, not all frames are good. When I say Garuda is weak, I'm not saying that she can't clear content. I'm looking for reasons to use her over other frames. Mesa is pretty much the undisputed queen of bounty missions. Saryn is the standard ESO map-wiper, but Equinox or Volt can still be as good if not better in some cases. A support crew of Rhino and Trinity is usually welcome in premade ESO teams too. Frost is great for Defense and Excavation, but excellent cases can be made for Limbo or Gara. There's also speed runner frames such as Octavia, Nova and Volt for Sabotage and Rescue. Loki, Octavia, and Ivara for spy. Foreseeing yourself taking heavy fire and want to play a tanks frame, perhaps for surviving a long time in arbitration? Inaros Nidus Gara etc. Just want some good loot? Hydroid Nekros and Speedva. Chroma isn't commonly seen as a great frame but he's the de facto Eidolon killer. Support frames aren't all that necessary in normal content, but Trinity and Harrow both see a lot of play time in Eidolon hunts. Even the much-ridiculed Ember has a niche in speeding through low level Fissures and Exterminates. Oberon is probably the easiest Tridolon solo alongside Trinity, if that's your thing. Umbra is useful for afk index farming lmao. Mag is often talked of as underpowered but a small group of Mag enthusiasts know that she's an insane frame and her ability of holding chokepoints is unparalleled. I haven't even mentioned Staticor Mirage which is just bonkers and is a top pick in most things that involve killing.

And that's exactly why I don't run with the same mindset you do.  Because if I do then i'm forced to 8ish odd frames for everything.  Even if there are comparable options there is still the best.  And with that mindset there is no reason to not run the best.  I want to play Garuda for several reasons.  I like her thematically and visually.  I like that she's a bit of a melee frame, a bit of a support frame, and I love the gameplay loop built into her kit of health=energy=health or energy=health=energy.  Interplay like that is why I also really like Harrow (and imo harrow is the only frame that's comparable to her in terms of gameplay.)  And the fact that she has scaling with her and the ability to nuke.  She's an all rounder in my eyes.  Not good at any one thing but decent at a handful of things.  I prefer that now compared to back then when I liked singular roles.  The game just doesn't suit roles.

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Having said all that, where does Garuda come in? She suffers from the same problems as frames like Atlas and Revenant. What's her niche that she does better than everyone else? What reasons do I have to actually pick her, outside of preference and fashion?

I can't answer that for you.  Because the reasons you play the game the way you do don't align with my views or ideals with this game.  I pick frames purely on what sounds fun to play/looks interesting gameplay wise.  and Garuda ticks all of my boxes.

Edited by (XB1)Knight Raime
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vor 3 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Knight Raime:

I can't answer that for you.  Because the reasons you play the game the way you do don't align with my views or ideals with this game.  I pick frames purely on what sounds fun to play/looks interesting gameplay wise.  and Garuda ticks all of my boxes.

and shes much stronger than many give her credit for in this thread. i agree, some work is neccessariy to really polish her, but shes everything but weak and shes also already fun to play. some improvements ? yes, agree, but weak or useless ? absolutely not !

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1 hour ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

A perceived problem.  Not an actual problem for the frame.  As I mentioned in my prior post optimal play isnt warrented realistically anywhere.  So it's perfectly fine if you want to say that you can't think of a reason to play her because you care about optimal behavior.  But I don't think DE should be actively designing warframes to replace any frame that might be meta at the time.  We already have issues with power creep.  We don't need to add more onto that.  DE imo should be designing frames for the fun/interesting factor.  Titania does absolutely nothing that's meta defining.  But I like her for her concept.  She's fun to play.

I don't care for memeing strike because it's boring.  Volt is a fun melee with his augment that stuns near by targets while he speed.  But he's not self sustain enough for my tastes for a melee frame.  Valkyr is my baby.  But her playstyle is boring because you sit in warcry the entire time soaking damage and using a basic melee.  Only using her 3 to deal with thing like bombards or nox.  Popping into 4 if you're going to die.  Nah I wouldn't user her like that because her dps is awful.  She can nuke but I wouldn't consider her a nuke frame.

Octavia is best overall.  But it requires her team to play around her.  Which if your solo que means only on small tile sets like hydron.  And while I like octavia I don't enjoy her gameplay of having to constantly crouch to refresh invis and letting the game kill itself.  So I wouldn't pick her over garuda for team DPS.  Rhino's buff is the easiest of the 3 frames in question to give.  But I think giving true damage to all damage sources is more valuable in a vacuum compared to just straight boosting damage.  So I'd pick rhino if I wanted to do buff and cc as stomp is still an insanely strong cc these days.  Banshee's boosts probably out shine garuda's but imo I think they'ed actually make a good parring.

And that's exactly why I don't run with the same mindset you do.  Because if I do then i'm forced to 8ish odd frames for everything.  Even if there are comparable options there is still the best.  And with that mindset there is no reason to not run the best.  I want to play Garuda for several reasons.  I like her thematically and visually.  I like that she's a bit of a melee frame, a bit of a support frame, and I love the gameplay loop built into her kit of health=energy=health or energy=health=energy.  Interplay like that is why I also really like Harrow (and imo harrow is the only frame that's comparable to her in terms of gameplay.)  And the fact that she has scaling with her and the ability to nuke.  She's an all rounder in my eyes.  Not good at any one thing but decent at a handful of things.  I prefer that now compared to back then when I liked singular roles.  The game just doesn't suit roles.

I can't answer that for you.  Because the reasons you play the game the way you do don't align with my views or ideals with this game.  I pick frames purely on what sounds fun to play/looks interesting gameplay wise.  and Garuda ticks all of my boxes.

So basically it boils down to this: I think she's a comparatively weak frame, and you don't care because you enjoy playing her. A parallel can be drawn to bows in this game. They're weak weapons overall and mostly straight downgrades to sniper rifles. While they are fun weapons an not totally useless, and some people don't enjoy using sniper rifles, would it hurt if we as a community acknowledge that they're weak weapons and ask DE to buff them? Wouldn't it be good if they were fun weapons but also great weapons at the same time?

The same can be said for Garuda. She's a perfectly viable frame for most of the content that Warframe throws at us, but she's not quite up to par with the good frames. Some people enjoy her playstyle even though she's not the best, and that's perfectly fine. But would it hurt anyone if we acknowledge that she's not great and could use some changes so that she can compete with the good frames? I don't think you can say in good conscience that she's so good that buffing her would be poor balance choice.

It probably wouldn't even take much to make her good: perhaps something like making her 4 less clunky so it's more synergistic with her frantic playstyle, and making her heal pylon provide some sort of additional utility beyond healing? 

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2 hours ago, 420-chan said:

So basically it boils down to this: I think she's a comparatively weak frame, and you don't care because you enjoy playing her. A parallel can be drawn to bows in this game. They're weak weapons overall and mostly straight downgrades to sniper rifles. While they are fun weapons an not totally useless, and some people don't enjoy using sniper rifles, would it hurt if we as a community acknowledge that they're weak weapons and ask DE to buff them? Wouldn't it be good if they were fun weapons but also great weapons at the same time?

More or less.  In a game where pretty much anything is viable at any content level I don't see the point in nit picking on what is technically better.  I think it would be silly to ask to buff all bows.  Only like two (paris/prime and cernos prime) are even some what underperforming.  In fact I believe snipers were actually semi buffed some what recently due to how much bows dominated them usage wise.  So I don't think the comparison is accurate.  But I get the jist of what you are saying.  The issue lies in the difference of our verbiage.  You think that because she's not meta defining/replacing that she needs buffing.  I think she doesn't because she has scalibility and decent self sustain.  I've already explained why i'm not fond of buffing things from your perspective.  That's not saying that she can't be buffed at all nor am I saying i'm against the idea of her being buffed.  I just disagree with the notion that she needs it.  Either way it entirely depends on what DE's goals are for balancing/usefulness.  And since I don't know these I can't say Garuda needs buffing.

2 hours ago, 420-chan said:

The same can be said for Garuda. She's a perfectly viable frame for most of the content that Warframe throws at us, but she's not quite up to par with the good frames. Some people enjoy her playstyle even though she's not the best, and that's perfectly fine. But would it hurt anyone if we acknowledge that she's not great and could use some changes so that she can compete with the good frames? I don't think you can say in good conscience that she's so good that buffing her would be poor balance choice.

I can acknowledge that her kit isn't meta.  I just don't see that as a problem.  You'd have to contend with DE's ideas when it comes to design intent.  I don't think they purposefully design frames to define or replace meta frames.  So approaching from your angle would be difficult.  You'd have a better time (imo) trying to get them to buff her by understanding the point of her kit and what they wanted out of it.  And then showing them how that isn't happening at all or how they could make that come out a lot better in the kit.  So far from what i've seen it doesn't seem like anyone's really nailed down what Garuda is supposed to be doing quite yet.  Or at least really getting ahold of her.  Heck I don't think my view on her is entirely complete.  Eh.  It depends on what buffs were talking about.  As I said in my segmented reply above i'm not against the idea of buffing her as a concept.

2 hours ago, 420-chan said:

It probably wouldn't even take much to make her good: perhaps something like making her 4 less clunky so it's more synergistic with her frantic playstyle, and making her heal pylon provide some sort of additional utility beyond healing? 

I don't see how her 4 could be made more synergistic beyond "marked enemies can be executed with her dread mirror."  Or "marked enemies heal garuda when bleeding."  But the former would push her 1 to a damage ability which I don't think is the point.  and the latter imo would step on her blood altar a bit much.  Adding some extra utility to the pylon would be interesting.  But that would then encourage her/allies to sit inside the pool.  Which I don't think is the design intent of it.  I think you're just supposed get in take some heals and then bounce.

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Just asking, Why always with new frames ppl keep comparing with others¿? I mean, there are always better options but I have friends who use nezha because dont like rhino, and ppl keep saying nezha is a worst rhino, but anyway they keep playing nezha, moding it and killing pretty well on high levels, as long as they do not die its ok. Why compare all garuda skills to other frames¿? Maybe is a popular frame well moded and equiped to other players who dont like other frames that for you guys are better. I dont find garuda weak but hard to master . Not everyone plays the same way this game or the frames, and there are out there a lot of different builds for different frames and with different equipement

My only complain at the moment is the shape of the shield, shoul be curved like volt's shield, covering 180º from your body and more vertically than horizontally. She jumps leaps a lot and usually legs zone are a weak point. OH and should turn at the same speed that you aim. Dont want a bubble shield covering all the frame but a better shape should be needed for survivality. As for the 4th skill, everyone said that is a melee warframe, why then not return to the bloodmixer that we all saw on the devstream¿? Or just make some adjustements to the actual ultimate.

Just for your information guys, not every frame has to be nukes or heaven healers. The more time pass more warframes we will have, and not everyone has to like all new warframes DE lauch. More variety is always better.

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She's a good solo frame.
Much like mirage or rev

In a group you'll not be able to do much apart from healing team mates and trying to kill things with your 1 and 4 before volt nuke them.

She suffer the same fate as rev, all of her power are useful at least.

But most importantly, she's fun to use.


The only well thought frame they put out was Harrow, all of his powers are useful and are working well together, and he is fun.
The last two frame we had just have force synergies between their powers, and it makes them really clunky to use sometime because it breaks momentum.
 

Edited by Maryph
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So far I like her and feel she is strong.

Her #4 alone is wonderful and fills whatever purpose you need it for (AoE map clear or tight corridor/single target damage). Building it for 200% strength means it always inflicts slash procs on attacks. Her 1 and 2 are simply utility skills for me that work well in a melee build. She also comes with great base armor so can get really tanky.

I havent bothered to work much around her passive nor her #3. The rest of her feels good and she is fun aswell. So my main goal is to build around 100% duration, 175% efficiency, 100% range and 200%+ strength along with vita, fiber and steel charge to make her a good melee frame.

There are surely a few things they could do to her as QoL, like letting you cancel #2 without having to target enemies if the altar mobs are the only ones left, that or treat them as thralls i.e dead enemies at the end of a defense wave. If they did I'd use her #2 alot more. Would be nice if it auto cancels an old altar if you try and use it on a 4th mobs. But those are small QoL changes nothing more.

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On 2018-11-19 at 7:14 PM, Demaneth said:

Just asking, Why always with new frames ppl keep comparing with others¿

If you pay attention, those who compare frames only compare 1 power:

"Why use Oberon to heal when I have Trinity?"

"Why use Nezha Warding Halo when I have Rhino Iron Skin?"

"Why use X to do Y when I have Z who does Y better?"

They do not see the whole damn kit. You will not just spam Renewal or Blessing in a mission, will you? You will not use just Warding Halo or Iron Skin.

If you make critscisms on the frame, do it based on the frame itself because after a while, we WILL and already HAVE Warframes whose powers are alike. The execusion might be different, but there is no escaping the fact that the powers will, in the end, do the same thing. They will: Heal, Buff, Debuff, CC in one way or the other.

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Maybe try: Rolling Guard just roll then carry on with power sequence? My Garuda is still in the oven so I don't really know. Invulnerability is nothing to totally discount even if it is only for 3 seconds... 

Edited by WarRelic
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7 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

If you pay attention, those who compare frames only compare 1 power:

"Why use Oberon to heal when I have Trinity?"

"Why use Nezha Warding Halo when I have Rhino Iron Skin?"

"Why use X to do Y when I have Z who does Y better?"

They do not see the whole damn kit. You will not just spam Renewal or Blessing in a mission, will you? You will not use just Warding Halo or Iron Skin.

If you make critscisms on the frame, do it based on the frame itself because after a while, we WILL and already HAVE Warframes whose powers are alike. The execusion might be different, but there is no escaping the fact that the powers will, in the end, do the same thing. They will: Heal, Buff, Debuff, CC in one way or the other.

In the end yes, all warframes doo heal, buff, debuff, cc... in the end we want to kill the enemies in various ways. But ofcourse because tastes we will choose different warframes, because the rest of the kit, the appearance, the theme. But god XD stop comparing that way.

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Just finished crafting Garuda, threw an extra Forma on her and played a bunch, so I came back to this thread with some experience to say that it's definitely just the OP, not Garuda. Garuda is busted strong.

The Strengths:

  • She can regen her own Energy at will with her 3, supported by her 2. If you're covered by Dread Mirror, you can sit in 2 and spam 3 to fill up her (boosted) Energy pool for extra damage on the Dread Heart from both the absorbed damage and the charged Energy. Or extra fuel for QT if you're into that.
  • She can be healed by mulitple 2s at once, increasing her survivability.
  • A lot of her damage ignores Armor.
  • Dashing with 1 or 2 is a great way to avoid damaging moves (Bombard rockets etc.) if you see them coming. It would be even nicer if she had some kind of i-frame like Landslide has while doing this with at least 1, but I have yet to die during a dash, so I don't see it as a desperate need.
  • She's built really well to cycle her abilities into each other. 1 gives you an easy 2 target, 4 easily knocks enemies into the insta-kill zone of 1 for extra Dread Heart charge.
  • She has a pretty generous level of Health and Armour compared to some other frames.

The Weaknesses (NOTE: These are not things I want to see fixed. Every character should have weaknesses. I mention these so that if you're aware of them, you can play around them to make sure they don't hinder you.)

  • She has survivability, but that doesn't mean you get a free pass on taking damage. She's not Rhino, so don't play like Rhino. She can survive, but the frame is not going to let you have that for free, thanks to her skill floor being not at a braindead level. Her Shield is directional, so if you want to get in on a group, leap onto an enemy at the edge of the pack, then face them. That way your directional shield captures as much damage as possible.
  • Her 2 regens Health, but over time. Make sure you're covering yourself with the Mirror and/or using your weapons to keep the heat off. Use 3 only when you're pretty sure you won't die.
  • Her big damage takes a little time to prep, so plan accordingly and make sure you don't die while making this happen. She has tools to do this, as mentioned previously.
  • Her 4 is not going to destroy everything in one button like old Saryn. DE is moving away from that. Instead, 4 charges enemies to be inflicted with free Slash procs at every instance of damage, and the Slash proc is calculated based on each hit's damage.
  • She has a unique playstyle, so you need to learn how she works and play accordingly. She has a directional Shield like Volt, but you can't play her like Volt, so don't. She slashes things like Ash, but she doesn't work like Ash does, so don't play her like Ash or you'll suck. Sometimes players compare individual aspects of frames on a 1-to-1 basis, then assume they can play a new frame exactly like a compared frame, then complain or critique the new frame when their old playstyle doesn't work. Some frames (Octavia) don't need to be learned for them to be strong, but some frames (Garuda) do.

If you really want to have Garuda viciously nuke everything, try this: build Strength to 200%, make sure Efficiency isn't awful, add a bit of Range, fill for Duration and Cast speed if you want. Leap onto an enemy at the edge of a group, then face them. Their damage builds up on your Mirror and into the Dread Heart. (If you want some extra Energy, hit your previous 1 target with 2 and then hit 3 once or twice). Charge up your 4 and release to momentarily stun everything and inflict Slash. Pull down your Dread Heart and charge it up if you like, then hit the middle of the pack. The damage of the Heart scales from four sources (1 target's Max Health, enemy damage on the Mirror, extra Energy charged into the Heart, and Garuda's passive if she's missing health), so it should be dealing tens of thousands of damage at higher levels. And then the kicker is, since your Strength is at 200%, every enemy in the Heart's blast Radius gets hit with a Slash proc for 35% of the obscene amount of damage your Heart had, a second time, and this time it ignores Shields and Armor. With this setup and combo, it's pretty easy to wipe out giant groups of Level 100+ anything in any amount of Armor, in seconds. The only times Garuda can fail in doing this is if she gets CCed on approach, 1s into the middle of a pack and gets blown up, or if she misses with the Dread Heart. It's not super easy, but it's not at all hard.

Garuda stronk.

Edited by SenorClipClop
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I played her a bit more and went with a full umbral build sitting at 105% duration, 175% efficiency, 100% range and 205% strength with 830 or so armor and 1000+ health while also using natural talent for her #4.

I simply use #4 to take out trash at range and then combine it with either my melee weapon or gas modded Ignis Wraith for tougher things. It melts anything you face really fast. Her #1 and #2 are used as needed, mostly as gap closers when getting into bigger crowds of enemies. #2 is also great for keeping your sentinel alive. If you face off versus a high level crowd of armored or shielded enemies a #1 leap followed by a #4 followed by a #1 heart release is devastating. It also works great on certain bosses.

It will still be insteresting to see what they'll add to her. I wouldnt mind a far shorter charge time on her #4 aswell as letting her #1 and #2 scale from your equipped melee (or her talons) like Khora, Atlas and Gara. Her #1 could possibly open up enemies to standing finishers instead of bringing them into knocked down state.

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She is a big, inconvenient disappointment that works well in Simulacrum and extremely controlled situations where everyone waits for their tea to get cold before you cast your ability to be of not much use.

Garuda is a fashion queen but a complete gameplay disappointment. She will be down with Nyx, Vauban and Wukong in LEAST USED FRAMES, but at least Nyx and Vauban are useful and effective.

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13 minutes ago, Acersecomic said:

She is a big, inconvenient disappointment that works well in Simulacrum and extremely controlled situations where everyone waits for their tea to get cold before you cast your ability to be of not much use.

Garuda is a fashion queen but a complete gameplay disappointment. She will be down with Nyx, Vauban and Wukong in LEAST USED FRAMES, but at least Nyx and Vauban are useful and effective.

But her cast isnt that slow. It all depends on the situation, how much her #4 needs charging or not. The skill also scales very well with content without being overpowered. In lower content (up to sortie levels) it wipes out most enemies quickly. In tougher situations it serves as a massive debuff that scales well with your weapons. Her #1 is good but has downsides (just as most every other #1 in the game), her #2 is a utility skill (heal+cc+gap closer) and her #3 is a... hmm well not sure when I really wanna use it.

edit: Indeed she could be better, but she isnt bad. Changes are also on the way. And if those turn out as well as Rev's did she will be in a very good spot after a little while.

Edited by SneakyErvin
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She has fallen into that sad situation of "other frames do it better and easier", with regards to most of her powers and play style. I am using her powers and am left feeling "why am I not using a nova for this" or "why am I not using valkyr". Its a shame as the frame looks lovely, but it feels the powers are deliberately undertoned or clunky for what they actually produce - ie poor and range limited healing that doesn't compete with other healer frames, poor area attacks that involve standing still like a target for very little result and a shield I can shoot at people, for very little effect and that then leaves me defenceless.

For all the hoops and limitations of these powers, they should be massively more effective.

Edited by Chronometria
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