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Garuda is weak or is just me?


Azrra
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3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But her cast isnt that slow. It all depends on the situation, how much her #4 needs charging or not. The skill also scales very well with content without being overpowered. In lower content (up to sortie levels) it wipes out most enemies quickly. In tougher situations it serves as a massive debuff that scales well with your weapons. Her #1 is good but has downsides (just as most every other #1 in the game), her #2 is a utility skill (heal+cc+gap closer) and her #3 is a... hmm well not sure when I really wanna use it.

edit: Indeed she could be better, but she isnt bad. Changes are also on the way. And if those turn out as well as Rev's did she will be in a very good spot after a little while.

Her 1st, Shield, is not bad. It's quick to cast, not a bad movement skill either. Her "nuke" is ok-ish. 1st's problem is more about its synergy with 4th because many frames have far worse 1st ability.

Her 2 is okeyish but the range on it is pathetic and heal rate should be better. If the range was massive I wouldn't mind the slow heal, but with such small range it should be twice of what it is now, because standing still in Warframe = SUICIDE.

Her 3, while good for energy, is asking to be killed. Quick Thinking in this case if of no actual use because you spend HP to get energy so you just traded HP bar for Energy bar, nothing gained. As for needing it for energy itself for casts, it's not bad. Could use improvements, but a decent ability.

Her 4... everything is wrong with her 4. Charge time... why is there charge time? Why can't she just cast 4 like Ash did before Blade Storm was de-goded. She does crap damage with it anyways so all she'll kill is like lvl 30 enemies with it unless they have armor. Just remove charge-time from her 4 and make it full frontal cone or full 360 and that ability is sort of fixed. I still think people's obsession with slash procs is stupid but at least it works on lvl 160+ superarmored enemies if your alpha is large enough (slow synergy with 1st ability or sniper rifles).

Her kit is asking you to fight in order to do something but she getting into tougher fights is suicide, so you end up with a frame that wants to fight but has to hide or stay at range.

Edited by Acersecomic
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10 minutes ago, Acersecomic said:

Her 1st, Shield, is not bad. It's quick to cast, not a bad movement skill either. Her "nuke" is ok-ish. 1st's problem is more about its synergy with 4th because many frames have far worse 1st ability.

Her 2 is okeyish but the range on it is pathetic and heal rate should be better. If the range was massive I wouldn't mind the slow heal, but with such small range it should be twice of what it is now, because standing still in Warframe = SUICIDE.

Her 3, while good for energy, is asking to be killed. Quick Thinking in this case if of no actual use because you spend HP to get energy so you just traded HP bar for Energy bar, nothing gained. As for needing it for energy itself for casts, it's not bad. Could use improvements, but a decent ability.

Her 4... everything is wrong with her 4. Charge time... why is there charge time? Why can't she just cast 4 like Ash did before Blade Storm was de-goded. She does crap damage with it anyways so all she'll kill is like lvl 30 enemies with it unless they have armor. Just remove charge-time from her 4 and make it full frontal cone or full 360 and that ability is sort of fixed. I still think people's obsession with slash procs is stupid but at least it works on lvl 160+ superarmored enemies if your alpha is large enough (slow synergy with 1st ability or sniper rifles).

Her kit is asking you to fight in order to do something but she getting into tougher fights is suicide, so you end up with a frame that wants to fight but has to hide or stay at range.

I have no problem in any content playing her around melee and her 4. I rarely use her 1 or 2. She can get very tanky for content a good bit beyond level 100. And we dont have much beyond 100 that is worth running except for self-goals set up running endurance for hours, which the majority of frames arent really fit for to begin with. Her 4 just happens to synergize extremely well as soon as you hit 200% strength, everything above it is a waste really. It clears well as a nuke up through sorties and after that the synergy with her 1 and weapons take care of the rest.

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@Acersecomic well I mean she definitely needs a buff but her 2 ain't that bad, her 3 usually was to synergize with her 2 if you wanted energy. her Blood Altar at first is a slow heal but turns out that's only if you got one target. I just recently used her and it seems to use it effectively they expect you to use three targets so that it replenishes enough health in a few seconds unless you use Bloodletting again to max your energy bar, it should have better range though. I think my main issue with her is I think she just dies too easily for me to use her passive effectively, I just thought when she deals more damage due to the passive, she should also take less damage.

Edited by Hunter126
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4 hours ago, kyori said:

I heard Pablo is reworking her. Hope he gives her the meta of Saryn's press-4-to-win, as Saryn is also reworked and promoted by Pablo.

You want a new Warframe to have the same ability as another Warframe just with different colors and effects?

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3 hours ago, Medeucea said:

You want a new Warframe to have the same ability as another Warframe just with different colors and effects?

it already is. Just that they are lousier version of other warframes' abilities

 

Edited by kyori
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As we know, they are working on her again to twist her. Im going to give her another try after this and if she is in the same state im going to vaulted on atlas and wuking chest for like 4 years untill she get the deluxe skin and a rework.

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This whole thread just tells me no ones really put time into her or try to get creative.

Her style of play is unique and sometimes a touch janky but it does have a clear flow to it. Im going to put the forma and time into it and see where it gets me. Im going to experiment with things like covert lethality daggers or the falcor and see what I come up with.

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20 minutes ago, BallisticSalsa said:

This whole thread just tells me no ones really put time into her or try to get creative.

Her style of play is unique and sometimes a touch janky but it does have a clear flow to it. Im going to put the forma and time into it and see where it gets me...

I completely agree. I have mine formed. Been playing her almost exclusively since I unlocked her. If you want to bounce ideas off me feel free to.

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53 minutes ago, BallisticSalsa said:

This whole thread just tells me no ones really put time into her or try to get creative.

Her style of play is unique and sometimes a touch janky but it does have a clear flow to it. Im going to put the forma and time into it and see where it gets me. Im going to experiment with things like covert lethality daggers or the falcor and see what I come up with.

She feels like pre-rework Nezha. At their core, her abilities are fine but, as you said, she can be a it janky at times. I've used her claws as my melee weapon when running her and a Condition Overload build on them is nasty. Her 2 isn't bad, with a bit of extra efficiency it can be very nice when combined with her 3. But, that said, I feel her 3 is the most awkward part of her kit, putting a Stretch on does help a bit. 

Natural Talent does affect the charge time of her 4, I have it on my Garuda currently and it makes it much easier to use. I think if you could move normally while charging it it would be perfect.

Somewhat ironically, the one place I've found I don't like to use her is Orb Vallis, the open areas work against her close quarters style. The normal maps she fits right in though.

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6 hours ago, Eathian said:

I completely agree. I have mine formed. Been playing her almost exclusively since I unlocked her. If you want to bounce ideas off me feel free to.

Sadly I can't record my Warframe with OBS or I'd share what I found from the lab and play in a more digestible form.

It's the little touches that make a big difference.  She has lots of little CC here and there.  Her 2 can CC 3 enemies for a while and they don't ignore the damage they take, they simply take all of it at once at the end.  Even if your 1 doesnt kill it sets up for a ground finisher immediately. Rolling into enemies with the shield flat out knocks them down and drags them around if they're not already getting up. Sadly bumping into them like this doesn't open up finishers.

I want to do something with her 300 base armor but there's not much to do that matters.

Charging up your 4 doesn't do anything except expand the cone from which it fires.  There's no reason or incentive to expand beyond where you know enemies are and if you want to do heinous damage to an individual  (say a Nox or heavy gunner) charging it briefly to hit them and any unfortunate bastard behind them with 8 talons.

2 has five purposes.  You can use it to regain energy fast, take a second to reposition, leave a heal post for your allies to take advantage of, escape from a bad jump out of a crowd, or CC an enemy long enough to lay into them heavy and have them die when you end it.

The Kamehameha on her 1 scales indefinitely and powers up passively everytime you refresh your shield or your shield gets shot so there's no real reason to sit there and charge it unless you're following up after a 4.  Not really worth it against heavy armor but will clear out loads of plebs really fast with minimal charge.

Her abilities synergize best with good ole automatic shotties which let you pump out the hate in close quarters without flipping about with crazy melee combos and getting out of position.  Synergizes great with her 4 as that 100 slash proc means every pellet is a slash proc letting even my basic 2 forma badly modded hek drop heavy gunners really fast with no corrosive procs.  I'd like to try with stuff like the Quartakk or the sybaris but I don't have one appropriately made.  I should have a kitgun that will fit the bill soon.  And looking at her crossbow might be some potential there. Want to go for pig meaty slash procs fast.

Positioning really does seem key to her play.  You can't leap into a clump of enemies and expect good results.  Plopping into the edge, or pick off isolated targets with the occasional big nuke or field clearing sweeping talons seems to be the way to go.  Played right she effectively has infinitely energy.  Her 2 is exceedingly good when you think about all the things you can do with it. Her 3 is a means to activate her passive and build energy.  No more, no less.  Though I'd love to find interframe synergies between her self damage and other stuff (Harrow makes you immune to damage and now you have 100% extra damage).

After looking at things I really don't see much point in natural talent unless you want to spam her 4 over big areas.  But at that point Saryn/Equinox is just objectively better. On that note I'd love to see if Saryn's 4 procs slash on marked targets.

So what does she fill role wise?  I'd say at this point barring further patches or testing I'd say support/assassin.  Her individual CC is very strong and her damage potential is high but not terribly consistent requiring special conditions or build up to show themselves. Her mobility is fantastic long as enemies are around.  Keeping her 1 up is vital to her survival and damage potential.  Keeping her two up isn't as important but an important tool for murder and keeping people topped up.  Her three gives her total control over her energy and health bar which actually works for her passive. 4 can either be assassination tool or widespread CC/damage support depending on your needs.  Frankly all she really needs is for her animations to flow better and to not be animation locked so heavily when charging her 1 and 4.

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She's, weird.

She has a handful of good things going on here or there, but lacks an identity and a real 'showstopper/standout' compared to other frames that also do the good things here and there. Point CC and healing? Trinity can give Everyone energy to boot. Long Distance Nuke? Yes Hello Mesa buffs everyone damage and is nearly invincible with her shield on. Nuke that scales with enemy stats well? Equinox doesn't even need to aim it.

Having all these together also doesn't really synergize, but I still find her fun and enjoy my own niche I've developed of playing her as a Siege Ballista, but I wish 1 would yoink an enemy to me instead of me jumping to them for it. Then I could pull an enemy to me, make them a fountain, charge endless energy and just spam Ults all day. It's, different but I find something therapeutic about it.

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Farming torids with her sure is easy enough, 30 minutes in enemies were lv120 and I didn't care for either the nullifiers or the bounce mines, how many other frames can do that? Inaros, also maybe Valkyr at best. Never went low on health and in the occasion when there were no nullies she could 1shot the area with dread heart. She also racks up combo counter quickly due to her multi-hit finisher after a knockdown from dread mirror.

Before those "120lv is nothing I'm a god" comments start coming, this level is way over 40m arbitration survival and apart from simulacrum, where she handles similar, there really is no place with higher level enemies, with apologies to the 0.5% of the community who do 4 hr survivals.

She is neither a glass cannon nor a weak caster. She is a melee/caster hybrid, somewhat similar to Nidus' tank/caster.

I remember in ToR the assassin class was similar, mostly melee with ranged attacks and gap closers, the Death Knight in WoW while I used to play was also a melee with plenty of ranged abilities. This concept is nothing new but some people seem unable to grasp it.

Let's just hope they don't gut her because some people lack imagination to grasp a basic concept.

Edited by Ver1dian
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Like natural selection, the past few frames weed out the weak "press-4-to-win-nukers" Garuda is rather well balanced in her current state, she needs no real change or fix.

People just need to admit they're not cut for any sort of frame  that requires them to press more than one button.

Edited by LupisV0lk
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