Why is there no elemental penetration mod yet?

[Thanzilla]

It should penetrate resistance granted by armor as well as sortie elemental resistance. Would make game better  imo since more build options are always good.

 

Also there is a bug with the glaxion and Arca plasmor that makes it deal 0 dmg if you build them for their innate elements exclusively. Will try and get it on video if I come across it again.

[mikakor]

Puncture. no eed for elemental damage.

or corrosive, if you want to.

[Ada_Wong_SG]

Hunter Munitions, slash procs ignore armor value and deal "true damage" as if there is none

Combine that with Viral that halves enemy HP for the duration, the slash proc could easily kill them.

[Thanzilla]

Did you guys even read the... Nvm. 

[LazerusKI]

In this case no, more build options wouldnt be good.

We already have a strong meta where some weapons require up to 6 predefined slots. For rifles Serration and Split Chamber are a must have. if it is a critical, then you need Point Strike and Vital Sense. Then there is Vigilante Armaments which boost both Multishot and Critical Damage. These alone are 5 slots. Add a Riven and you have 6. 2 Free slots for your flavour then, so...elements. No space left for utility.

Armor Ignoring Element Mods would just be a bandaid fix for the real problem, which is armor. We dont need them, what we need is a fix for the broken armor system and the broken modding system.
Funfact: We actually even had that once in Damage 1.0. It was called "Serrated Blade"

Zitat

Serrated Blade damage is one of four damage types most commonly referred to as 'armor ignore', the others being Physics Impact, Poison, and Armor Piercing Damage.

This was pretty much the first "armor bandaid fix"

Edited November 15, 2018 by LazerusKI

[Thanzilla]

3 hours ago, LazerusKI said:

In this case no, more build options wouldnt be good.

We already have a strong meta where some weapons require up to 6 predefined slots. For rifles Serration and Split Chamber are a must have. if it is a critical, then you need Point Strike and Vital Sense. Then there is Vigilante Armaments which boost both Multishot and Critical Damage. These alone are 5 slots. Add a Riven and you have 6. 2 Free slots for your flavour then, so...elements. No space left for utility.

Armor Ignoring Element Mods would just be a bandaid fix for the real problem, which is armor. We dont need them, what we need is a fix for the broken armor system and the broken modding system.
Funfact: We actually even had that once in Damage 1.0. It was called "Serrated Blade"

This was pretty much the first "armor bandaid fix"

More options wouldn't be good because we currently do not have many? Am I reading this correctly?

Also there is no reason DE can't think about both reducing armor scaling in mobs and add mods that penetrate resistance. Game lacks depth in terms of building weapons as you say yourself. More mods would fix that. I am just suggesting one.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Thanzilla
Typo

[YagoXiten]

12 hours ago, Thanzilla said:

It should penetrate resistance granted by armor as well as sortie elemental resistance. Would make game better  imo since more build options are always good.

 

Also there is a bug with the glaxion and Arca plasmor that makes it deal 0 dmg if you build them for their innate elements exclusively. Will try and get it on video if I come across it again.

Whilst there probably should be some way to deal with Elemental Resistance in Sorties, such a mod would only be useful in that specific circumstance. If you weren't aware, Radiation already ignores 75% of Alloy armor and Corrosive ignores 75% of Ferrite armor--in addition to their respective 1.75x damage multipliers against those health types.

EDIT: Puncture also ignores 50% of Ferrite armor and 15% of Alloy armor in addition to its 1.5x and 1.15x damage multiplier against Ferrite/Alloy health types respectively.

Edited November 15, 2018 by YagoXiten

[MasterBurik]

4 hours ago, Thanzilla said:

More options wouldn't be good because we currently do not have many? Am I reading this correctly?

Also there is no reason DE can't think about both reducing armor scaling in mobs and add mods that penetrate resistance. Game lacks depth in terms of building weapons as you say yourself. More mods would fix that. I am just suggesting one.

The game lacks build depth, because a series of mods exist that are essentially mandatory. More mods won't fix that, unless they are directly competitive.

[LazerusKI]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Thanzilla:

More options wouldn't be good because we currently do not have many? Am I reading this correctly?

Also there is no reason DE can't think about both reducing armor scaling in mobs and add mods that penetrate resistance. Game lacks depth in terms of building weapons as you say yourself. More mods would fix that. I am just suggesting one.

no, but more options to "powercreep" would remove even the last bit of "option" that we have.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

18 hours ago, Thanzilla said:

Did you guys even read the... Nvm. 

You asked for a type of mod, we offered alternatives that basically do what your asking for 

[Thanzilla]

4 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You asked for a type of mod, we offered alternatives that basically do what your asking for 

Extra damage to certain element and ignoring enemy armor is different than specifically penetrating some elemental resistance. The outcome is the same aka more damage but for example serration and multishot are different mods that do different things even though they basically just increase damage.

[Thanzilla]

16 hours ago, YagoXiten said:

Whilst there probably should be some way to deal with Elemental Resistance in Sorties, such a mod would only be useful in that specific circumstance. If you weren't aware, Radiation already ignores 75% of Alloy armor and Corrosive ignores 75% of Ferrite armor--in addition to their respective 1.75x damage multipliers against those health types.

EDIT: Puncture also ignores 50% of Ferrite armor and 15% of Alloy armor in addition to its 1.5x and 1.15x damage multiplier against Ferrite/Alloy health types respectively.

Let's imagine a mod called Heat penetration: Your heat damage penetrates 50%* enemy elemental resistance and armour.

*Random value

Wouldn't that be useful?

 

Also about the bug i mentioned. Is this supposed to work like this? This time it was on eximus units but other time it was on normal terra something normal units and happens very frequently. My glaxion is fully modded, has riven and is built for magnetic + gas but they just take 0 dmg. Was happening when i was leveling it up with pure cold as well.

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Thanzilla

[O2D3nTe]

If it's only about sortie modifiers, then that's not too great.

I guess the interesting aspect of it would be to create additional weakness like:

You mod your weapon for fire damage, and shoot on a Alloy armor Grineer. By default you have no modifier here. Your mod would ignore 50% (or other value) of the armor of that enemy for fire damage.

It would most likely not be that great when you have a weapon with too many damage types, but could be god like on weapons with a single type of elemental damage as base. You could build for a single combined element and add armor penetration on top of it in case it's not radiation and you want to get through that freaking Alloy armor.

[YagoXiten]

22 hours ago, Thanzilla said:

Let's imagine a mod called Heat penetration: Your heat damage penetrates 50%* enemy elemental resistance and armour.

*Random value

Wouldn't that be useful?

Useful? Yes. Interesting or well designed? No.The point is that you're supposed to use certain damage types against certain enemies.Such a mod would undermine that system. It wouldn't even diversify modding.

22 hours ago, Thanzilla said:

Also about the bug i mentioned. Is this supposed to work like this? This time it was on eximus units but other time it was on normal terra something normal units and happens very frequently. My glaxion is fully modded, has riven and is built for magnetic + gas but they just take 0 dmg. Was happening when i was leveling it up with pure cold as well.

 

I know nothing about this.

[Thanzilla]

9 hours ago, YagoXiten said:

Useful? Yes. Interesting or well designed? No.The point is that you're supposed to use certain damage types against certain enemies.Such a mod would undermine that system. It wouldn't even diversify modding.

It would only undermine the current system if it made heat stronger than corrosive or radiation when fighting the enemies that are weak against these elements, which even my random value didn't do. Instead it would make the weak against armor elements a little more competitive therfore diversifying our builds even more.

With how the system currently works, using corrosive damage against an enemy that is resistant to that element isn't as punishing as using heat against an armoured target. This would fix this imbalance and so not only would it be useful but it would also help the current system grow into a more refined, deep and well designed one.

[Ada_Wong_SG]

 

On 2018-11-15 at 1:55 PM, Thanzilla said:

Did you guys even read the... Nvm. 

The strongest combination I tested currently 

is Hunter Munitions crit build on primaries
and Corrosive Crit build on pistols.

Both to a certain degree does what you envisioned,

Hunter's munition on trigger actually ignores all the armor, and deal the total damage as the slash proc tick,
as such an armored enemy would usually take a smaller damage initial hit
but the bleeding would tick away a large chunk of their HP leading to a quick death with no regards to their armor.

 

16 hours ago, Thanzilla said:

It would only undermine the current system if it made heat stronger than corrosive or radiation when fighting the enemies that are weak against these elements, which even my random value didn't do. Instead it would make the weak against armor elements a little more competitive therfore diversifying our builds even more.

With how the system currently works, using corrosive damage against an enemy that is resistant to that element isn't as punishing as using heat against an armoured target. This would fix this imbalance and so not only would it be useful but it would also help the current system grow into a more refined, deep and well designed one.

 

On 2018-11-17 at 12:20 PM, YagoXiten said:

Useful? Yes. Interesting or well designed? No.The point is that you're supposed to use certain damage types against certain enemies.Such a mod would undermine that system. It wouldn't even diversify modding.

Armor being the biggest threat currently from generic enemies (special units aside)
since you take a Lex Prime build with crit and corrosive that can kill a level 50 corrupted heavy gunner in 2 shots
it will usually 1 shot everything else since they have less or no armor to do the damage resistance.

While corrosive proc is still viable and useful against alloy armor (armor stripping and incremental damage)
since the flat rate provided by radiation damage is not really appropriate for high level enemies (take more shots than corrosive)

unless the enemy shield or other defense mechanism is a much bigger threat, a general purpose build
would usually cater to kill the toughest enemy since everything else can be killed easier
would be adopted by most players, and people will go around asking for it or test out for themselves.

You cannot change the fact that people can conduct their research in Simulacrum to optimize and
come out with a build that cater to 90% of enemy types and sticking to that build most of the time.

Changing to other elemental types doing similar job won't widen the mod diversity.

people will ends up going to throw Corrosive + Heat for everything because it serves the purpose of killing very well.
Better still Heat + Hunter Munition just so enemies are so much more screwed now... death + death = double deadly weapons


Rather than catering your builds to one specific faction of enemy only
to be thrown into awkward situations when syndicate hit squad shows up when your weapons 
is clearly not modded for them, or going into another mission forgetting to change mod only to find your weapons ineffective against enemies.

I would rather carry a Lex Prime modded for Corrosive around only to see it deal less damage against corpus 
(but still within a certain degree of killing efficiency)

instead of going for Magnetic build only to find myself in deep trouble
when I forget to swap build before jumping into a grineer mission.



 

Edited November 18, 2018 by Ada_Wong_SG