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LarryYourWaiter

Are Solaris “people?”

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When their heads get replaced with machines, are they not, at that point, robots with living tissue bodies?  Or are they still “people” with robot heads?

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That's up to philosophy.

Transhumanism is the idea we will evolve beyond our current physical and mental limitations with science and technology. 

Games like Soma, Deus ex, soon Cyberpunk 2077. They deal with it more.

Soma is likely closest to the Solaris problem. 

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7 minutes ago, WindigoTG said:

They are a group of individuals. So yes, by definition, they are people.

A flock of sparrows is also a group of individuals.  Sparrows are people?

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2 minutes ago, schilds said:

Whoa, way to objectify and dehumanise them. Are you a corpus spy?

Haha naaah just careful with where I pledge my allegiances.  Is it dehumanising if they’ve already previously been made inhuman?   Wouldn’t copying your mind over to a machine make a digital copy and the original is still in your flesh head? Are their original brains dead now or sitting on a shelf somewhere in some sort of stasis?

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Given the mention of "Brain shelving" (i believe was the term) as a potential punishment for Solaris I suspect that the heads still contain a brain. This is furthered by the fact that AIs were heavily frowned upon and avoided by the much more advanced orokin (while cephalon do exist they are digitized brains and thus a term; so Solaris would be refered to cephalons if they were digitized brains).

 

So yes, even arguments of "is a digitized person a person" kinda get shut down when your still dealing with a physical brain. It would be like asking if someone with a pace maker or a fake limb is "still a person"

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5 minutes ago, LarryYourWaiter said:

A flock of sparrows is also a group of individuals.  Sparrows are people?

They aren't sophisticated enough to be individuals. Individual as in person. A sparrow is a comparatively simple animal, an "it". A complicated thinking being is a person, a "they".

A group of "they"s is people. A flock of "it"s is a flock.

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4 minutes ago, WindigoTG said:

They aren't sophisticated enough to be individuals. A sparrow is a comparatively animal, an "it". A complicated thinking being is a person, a "they".

A group of "they" is people. A flock of "it" is a flock.

Ok, so at what point is an animal sophisticated enough to be people?  Chimpanzees have pretty complex relationships and societies...  your argument is also very weak as it completely falls apart in any other language.

also, people ARE animals.  

When an animal isn’t sophisticated, it’s not individual?  Is it part of a collective hive-mind then?

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Solaris do have BRAINs, and the kids are like actual biological kids. I think even the full 'mech' solaris have an organic torso that does the living thing.

 

Spoiler

To quote: 'Thursby's stable... well, as stable as can be with so much of him missing.'

The guy is now a Robo head, on a apperantly robotic Torso, with MOA legs. What would need 'stabalizing' if he was fully robotic? There's probably still some lungs and a heart and a brain slotted in there somewhere.

 

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7 minutes ago, Jatgeirr said:

So yes, even arguments of "is a digitized person a person" kinda get shut down when your still dealing with a physical brain. It would be like asking if someone with a pace maker or a fake limb is "still a person"

I’m not sure those are comparable.  Your brain is the seat of your consciousness.  It’s what makes you, you.  Which is why brain damage can drastically alter a person’s personality whereas a pacemaker doesn’t.

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11 minutes ago, LarryYourWaiter said:

Ok, so at what point is an animal sophisticated enough to be people?  Chimpanzees have pretty complex relationships and societies...  your argument is also very weak as it completely falls apart in any other language.

also, people ARE animals.  

When an animal isn’t sophisticated, it’s not individual?  Is it part of a collective hive-mind then?

 

Quote

A person is a being that has certain capacities or attributes such as reason, morality, consciousness or self-consciousness, and being a part of a culturally established form of social relations such as kinship, ownership of property, or legal responsibility.

Call me when a sparrow get to this level.

 

 

Ok, I'll put it straight and simple:

"People" is a plural for "Person"

Plural for "Human" is "Humans"

"Humans" is a term you're looking for for the discussion.

 

 

Also, a bonus quick analysis:

Greener are people, but they aren't humans any more.

Sentients definately aren't humans, but they seem to be evolved enough to be able to be people. Depends on whether they have any society of their own to be a people of.

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"The Solaris United are a rebel group of the Solaris people, seeking to liberate their fellow unhappy laborers who work for Nef Anyo underground in Fortuna. The Solaris people possess body augmentations that make them appear as Corpus-machine hybrids, and are responsible for processing the underground network of Orokin terraformation coolant and refining it for use back on the scorched surface of Orb Vallis on Venus."

- Warframe Fandom Wiki, Solaris United

 

Any resident living in Fortuna (a labor camp under the plains of Orb Vallis, Venus) can be refereed to as a "Solaris" or "Solaris People" for plural. As stated in the quote, Solaris United is not a place, it's a group of rebels inside Fortuna.

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1 minute ago, WindigoTG said:

 

Call me when a sparrow get to this level.

 

 

Ok, I'll put it straight and simple:

"People" is a plural for "Person"

Plural for "Human" is "Humans"

"Humans" is a term you're looking for for the discussion.

Arguing semantics isn’t arguing the point..

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A person is simply a legal entity these days.

The law is simply a construct of my tenno, being the supreme arbiter of whatever the hell I want. So no, not people. Because I haven't granted them that status.

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1 час назад, LarryYourWaiter сказал:

A flock of sparrows is also a group of individuals.  Sparrows are people?

Yes!.... well more than some... you may have heard about such individual.(Sorry could not help myself)

On topic:

If we check warframe wiki: The Solaris United are a rebel group of the Solaris people. I think we can close this case.

I would, personally, like to call them cyborgs, due to the fact that their bodies were enhanced to increase productivity (I think the reason for their modifications was mentioned in the "Vox solaris" quest, specifically in case of Thirsby/Legs). Unfortunatly calling them Cybernetic/Augmented, lorewise, would make them much less relatable

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1 hour ago, LarryYourWaiter said:

Arguing semantics isn’t arguing the point..

Different terms for different things exist for a reason.

You're asking whether they are robots or not at this point and if they are people.

They most definately do show signs of higher cognitive functions, which means that wherever the 'shelved' brains are, they are what is in control, perhaps via some analog of transference. So no, they aren't robots. A robot would be mindless automathon.

They are clearly individuals with personalities and functioning society. So yes, they are people with robotic heads.

This is the answer for the question as it being asked in the OP.

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Depends on what your qualifications for being a person are. Technically I guess the Solaris people could be considered cyborgs, humans with technological augmentations that push them beyond traditional human limitations, but I don't view that as being entirely separate from ones person hood. 

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