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My feedback on venus enemies


Quill.Onkko
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Basically when the fortuna update came out the enemy scaling was on point and the game felt challenging for the first time, since we all know the rest of the content is a joke by now, arbitrations, elite sanctuary onslaught, they're too easy, even eidolon hunting can be solo'd but the enemies in venus felt different, they made you move and hide and actually be tactical with your gameplay, it was the first time i was ever scared to revive someone even while i was in operator, but then....

 

but then DE nerfed the enemies and their spawns, to the point that its kinda of a joke like the rest of the enemies in the rest of the so called "hard" missions like arbitrations and eso, i dont wanna sound like im nagging but its extremely annoying that now when im solo and theres more than 5 banners present in venus 1 or 2 enemies spawn each orbital strike, and it take more than 30minutes for enemies to scale to the point that its actually a bit hard to kill, take note that i said hard to kill not hard to deal with, cuz the enemies damage is joke and there barely any reason to dodge their bullets or take cover or stay on the move.

in my opinion venus is ruined for me, i have been honing my warframe with a S#&$ ton of formas and min maxing my builds for the "challenge of venus" and what i got is a watered down version of a challenge, plains 2.0 with bigger map... what a waste

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1 minute ago, Quill.Onkko said:

it was the first time i was ever scared to revive someone even while i was in operator,

you can literally void mode during the brief invulnerability phase as you transfer out. you should never even become vulnerable using your operator to revive, that's why everyone does it. if your health bar goes red, you're doing something wrong.

also, everything is subject to change, and Venus isn't meant to be a challenging planet, it never was. 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Quill.Onkko said:

plains 2.0 with bigger map... what a waste

When exactly was fortuna not advertised as this and instead as super challenging end game content? Because it was always set up to be PoE 2.0 with a bigger map... How you are disappointed that it turned out to be exactly what they said it would be is odd.

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  • Lowered the Health of Terra Corpus Jailers in the Vallis Hostage Rescue missions.
  • Terra Sniper Crewman and Terra Raptor SX now only create Hyenas if their level is >15

according to the hot fix

heres a pic of enemies after 15 minutes  with 4 banners present

1OCbvXO.jpg

15VrbDt.jpg

heres an orbital strike with 1 enemy inside it

jKWQlsB.jpg 

lpGStzJ.jpg

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14 minutes ago, PurrrningBoop said:

My feedback on venus enemies....feedback....in GD...hmmm

Amazing, OP, do you mind walking us through the process of your expectation development process? Especially, the moment where DE wanted the Orb Vallis to be hard for the seasoned veteran.

 

59 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

Oh wait, an open world on the second planet of the starchart is not instantly scaling to level 200 ? Astonishing indeed

challenging players isnt a bad thing for the game, and thats what i got when orb vallas first launched it was "fun" not just cuz its new, because the enemies are actually strong and hard to deal with. 

just like DE has something for casual players in venus it should have something hard for veterans you see.

as i said, as far as i can see venus is not interesting at all anymore

 

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1 hour ago, Quill.Onkko said:

Basically when the fortuna update came out the enemy scaling was on point and the game felt challenging for the first time

I think you are misunderstanding something. Fortuna was ment to be neither a high level area, nor a challanging playground for seasoned players. This nerf was necessary, because those new Corpus units were scaling harder than any other units in the game ( a lvl 40 unit can easely be seen as lvl 60-70). Possible and subjective challange aside, this throws consistance out of the window.
Even after the nerf, those Corpus are still on steroids and are more dangerous, due to higher varaity, special abilities, CC spam, they still tank more and hit hard.

EDIT: After I saw your pics.
Reinforcement at the Spaceport and Temple of Profit in the outside areas are wonky, go inside and you will be swarmed. Furthermore, you are running Mesa with 95% DR as well as Adaptation and you complain a lvl 50 unit cannot kill you anymore?

Edited by ShortCat
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5 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

I think you are misunderstanding something. Fortuna was ment to be neither a high level area, nor a challanging playground for seasoned players. This nerf was necessary, because those new Corpus units were scaling harder than any other units in the game ( a lvl 40 unit can easely be seen as lvl 60-70). Possible and subjective challange aside, this throws consistance out of the window.
Even after the nerf, those Corpus are still on steroids and are more dangerous, due to higher varaity, special abilities, CC spam, they still tank more and hit hard.

i disagree, those corpus are like the rest now tbh, the cc isnt that excessive.

it is my opinion that fortuna should provide something for everyone and the crazy scaling that people -like me- like, got taken away so i still stand by it.

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1 hour ago, Chewarette said:

Oh wait, an open world on the second planet of the starchart is not instantly scaling to level 200 ? Astonishing indeed

Oh wait, an open world that has five different tiers of bounties, with the highest tier being designed to veteran players and vets are now complaining they gave toy guns to the corpus? Astonishing indeed.

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32 minutes ago, Quill.Onkko said:

i disagree, those corpus are like the rest now tbh, the cc isnt that excessive.

it is my opinion that fortuna should provide something for everyone and the crazy scaling that people -like me- like, got taken away so i still stand by it.

You are literally using the strongest frame for this game type in Mesa with adaptation and are complaining because you personally are not having a hard time anymore. How can you possibly believe that because you are not dying with 99.95% damage reduction that the enemies are too weak?

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OH joy another one...

The reason the enemy damage was reduced was because it was not representative of the level of the enemies, it was blatantly obvious to anyone who's been here long enough that the enemies were hitting harder than they should be at their respective levels.  There is no point having enemy levels if there is no 'equalisation' across all factions and planets, a rank5 enemy should be like a rank 5 enemy on any map, a rank 25 enemy should be like a rank 25 enemy on any map, on OV this was not the case.

In all honesty, the only real issue I have with enemies on OV is that there's too much focus on CC/nullifier frames like comba's and those damn bounce bomb things when you go higher level rather than there being more 'grunt' enemies (same issue corpus have had for a LONG time in all honesty) meaning the game basically turns into a shooting/melee game and I'm not sure about others but that's not why I came to play warframe... and before people suggest it, I'm not playing frames like ember or mesa and I haven't got adaptation either.

Now spawn rates I can agree on, it's not everywhere but there are some locations (spaceport especially) where there are issues with the way that things are spawning. 

 

And as a side note: Maybe DE could add in a 'beacon' you can buy from someone in fortuna that you can use in private matches which will increase levels to 4 without the wait....

 

For all the people complaining about low level content, why not ask DE to give a 'higher tier' star map (instead of eso and elite alerts), something I've asked for numerous times, rather than complaining about the levels on the map which need to cover EVERYONE, not just those who are running 'meta builds' with everything under the sun to make them overpowered....

Another option is to push DE to do a high level map for the next open world, say one up at sedna or something where the enemies are higher at base level, actually doing another grineer/corpus map (ignoring tau and railjack) as the next open world would actually save DE time as they can focus on the map rather than the enemies. 

Edited by LSG501
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22 hours ago, -Tabris- said:

You are literally using the strongest frame for this game type in Mesa with adaptation and are complaining because you personally are not having a hard time anymore. How can you possibly believe that because you are not dying with 99.95% damage reduction that the enemies are too weak?

 

  • Too easy, I expected more! I deserve a challenge!

 

Edited by Quill.Onkko
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If you want a challenge get level 4 alert level while you have the T5 Bounty. 

They will scale up to level 125 within 15 minutes typically, I think Mesa would have a decent challenge with some of the mechanics employed by the special Jackals and Kyta Raknoids that show up.

 

Edit:

Actually nevermind, I just tried it, for some reason Peacemaker just doesn't trigger Jackal's electric shield when it takes health damage and mine can out-DPS the 200k+ shield/sec regen even with it.  Kyta Raknoid is not considered a valid target for Peacemaker so something weird is going on there, well it makes it more 'challenging' I guess but probably in the wrong way.

The content for OV endgame isn't out yet so I'd just wait for that rather than complaining about how basic OV content isn't endgame now that one mob got significantly nerfed.

Edited by Ailyene
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When I go to the base outside of Fortuna in free roam and let all of the alert levels stack up, I start dying around level 30-40(using Garuda and the Nagantaka mostly, and I know they're not built optimally). It feels like people who want the base stats of enemies to get buffed are just out of touch with new players and casuals. I'm not saying there can't be any change to give more challenging content, I'm saying that the content is challenging already, for some people. That can't be ignored. Well it can, but then you'll probably just get ignored in the long run too.

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23 hours ago, ShortCat said:

EDIT: After I saw your pics.
Reinforcement at the Spaceport and Temple of Profit in the outside areas are wonky, go inside and you will be swarmed. Furthermore, you are running Mesa with 95% DR as well as Adaptation and you complain a lvl 50 unit cannot kill you anymore?

Yes - as always, the people that make these complaints are people who run some of the best gear in the game and expect it to be challenging.

Absurd.

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I agree, and disagree. There were certainly moments where I knew there was something wrong with how powerful the enemies were, but I grew to like it. I'm fine with the nerf, but honestly, how hard would it be to just make a second set of bounties that have higher level enemies to begin with? 

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15 minutes ago, (XB1)Clockwork Geoff said:

Yes - as always, the people that make these complaints are people who run some of the best gear in the game and expect it to be challenging.

Absurd.

And to add to this, it isn't going to happen, because DE knows that "challenge" for these people is easily negated by that best gear and various shut-down builds.  It's hard to challenge someone when they'll just render themselves either effectively immortal or essentially freeze the enemy AI with CC.  It's like playing DOOM on ultra-nightmare with god mode on and complaining the game is too easy.  There's a reason DE focuses primarily on middling content, as most players aren't the type to go hours into an endless seeking "challenge" from level 200 enemies that can't do anything to them anyway because they hit the relevant ability key for their frame, and it's why you NEVER see Ember in the "endgame."  It's why when DE introduces challenge, they take away, like melee only, or require a gimmick like "shoot the drones first!"  The raw numbers game has failed time and time again.  When people can go 6 hours/hundreds of levels and still win, then it's clear enemies with higher levels (damage and health) don't mean $#!% in Warframe if people are really determined to win (most won't sacrifice fun to beat those odds, hence nerfs.)

Simply put, you can't challenge people that do everything in their power to remove it.  So they'll never design the game around them.  Don't expect a higher level star-chart 2 in Tau.  It ain't happening until power creep turns into power leap.

Also, I'm a "veteran" player.  People, please stop using the term like we're all interested in more "challenging" content (the Corpus units themselves are fine, their damage was and still for some is not.)  I assure you, I am not interested, and I know I'm not alone in this.

Edited by Littleman88
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And once again, we have an overkit'd meta memer complaining about week-old nerfs, still failing to realise that the nerfs had nothing to do with how challenging people were finding Orb Vallis. This always was, and will remain, a level consistency issue.

Imagine you saw a MR5 player with maxed out focus schools running maxed umbral mods. Something's not right there, don't you think? Their level is not representative of their power level. That's exactly what the OV Corpus were doing.

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2 minutes ago, Littleman88 said:

And to add to this, it isn't going to happen, because DE knows that "challenge" for these people is easily negated by that best gear and various shut-down builds.  It's hard to challenge someone when they'll just render themselves either effectively immortal or essentially freeze the enemy AI with CC.  It's like playing DOOM on ultra-nightmare with god mode on and complaining the game is too easy.  There's a reason DE focuses primarily on middling content, as most players aren't the type to go hours into an endless seeking "challenge" from level 200 enemies that can't do anything to them anyway because they hit the relevant ability key for their frame, and it's why you NEVER see Ember in the "endgame."  It's why when DE introduces challenge, they take away, like melee only, or require a gimmick like "shoot the drones first!"  The raw numbers game has failed time and time again.  When people can go 6 hours/hundreds of levels and still win, then it's clear enemies with higher levels (damage and health) don't mean $#!% in Warframe.

Simply put, you can't challenge people that do everything in their power to remove it.  So they'll never design the game around them.  Don't expect a higher level star-chart 2 in Tau.  It ain't happening until power creep turns into power leap.

Also, I'm a "veteran" player.  People, please stop using the term like we're all interested in more "challenging" content (the Corpus units themselves are fine, their damage was and still for some is not.)  I assure you, I am not interested, and I know I'm not alone in this.

Well said - Warframe is not a skilled based game, it's a build based game.

So people need to stop using the word 'challenging game play' like they are some super skilled player. As you say, any difficulty, is based on numbers and numbers are beaten by better numbers (meta builds). If you ramp it up so that the numbers make it challenging for meta builds, that means those are the only viable ways to beat those pieces of content because, i'll say it again, the game play of Warframe does not require skill at all.

 

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Can someone who misses the enemy damage from before the nerf tell me why they can't just drop a survivability mod - even just by a few ranks?

I usually don't think that self-nerfing is the answer(I mean people should consider it if the game is too easy, but if they don't want to then that's their call), but when the problem is literally just that damage has been nerfed, you can achieve the same effect as enemies having higher damage by taking off some armor or something, right?

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2 minutes ago, CoolDudeMcCool said:

Can someone who misses the enemy damage from before the nerf tell me why they can't just drop a survivability mod - even just by a few ranks?

I usually don't think that self-nerfing is the answer(I mean people should consider it if the game is too easy, but if they don't want to then that's their call), but when the problem is literally just that damage has been nerfed, you can achieve the same effect as enemies having higher damage by taking off some armor or something, right?

"Because nerfing ourselves is just stupid"

I thought that was already repeated over and over?

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1 minute ago, CoolDudeMcCool said:

When self-nerfing gets the exact same effect as the thing people are asking for, it's really, really, really not.

I know that. That's just exactly what they kept on saying when people offered that idea. Alongside the arguments that "it negates/ignored our progress"

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Ok guys, some of the things said in this thread sound odd to say the least.

First of all how can you blame players for doing everything in their power to get stronger and still wanting the challenge? Isnt that one of the things that games are about?

It is so obvious and perfectly normal that players want to grow stroneger (with their gear, tactics, personal skill). And one of the most important things (and most obvious at the same time), one of the reasons players want to grow stronger is to meet greater challenge. For some, the incentive to get stronger, get better is much weaker if they cannot test themselves with a greater challenge. Therefore you cannot simply say - use weaker frames, worse gear and here you go, you have a challenge. This is $&*&*#(%&ed thinking on so many levels. Whats next? If someone still pull this off with worst frame and gear then would u say to them - its your fault, play with one hand?

Another stupid excuse is saying "this is noob planet what did u expect?". Ok then what logic is this? Is this content update for new players only? Like a new starting zone of sort? Or maybe it is a new expansion for all? This is stupid coz the content is scalable and the top of the scale should be hard as hell bearing greater rewards (or better chances) - risk vs reward philosopy.

DE should know better than appealing only to new players. They should know that there is a ton of players who are high MR, with great gear and frames. Players who keep spending money on this game and they are more loyal then statistical new commer. And these players want to have a place in this game, want to be taken into concideration when creating new content. To have challenging stuff to do.

I loved enemies pre nerf. Now its trash.

Edited by Kerthis
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