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[Archwing] People actually use barrel rolls?


ZedrinBot
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With 24.0.4, archwing controls were changed a little when on the surface. This removed the ability to do the (incredibly slow) barrel rolls, slightly slowed down archwing, but it added in the ability to strafe, like you can in space with experimental controls.

This made Archwing significantly easier to control and gave you more freedom of movement, since it allows you to move in directions other than just where you aim.

Today's update reverted the change for some reason. Most of the complaints regarding the change initially were due to the loss of the ability to barrel roll, with a small few understandably being about the speed changes.

I need to ask: who honestly actively used the barrel rolls?

Could they even be called barrel rolls? They're so slow that they accomplish nothing, and they don't have any practical use for navigation. All it adds is the additional requirement of having to correct my roll as I fly around, and makes it so I can't shoot in one direction and fly in another. I don't see the point in sacrificing control on an already-very-jank system just for a useless 'cool factor' (which again, what is cool about rolling so slowly.)

If people desperately want barrel rolls, maybe make it so experimental flight applies to PoE and OV, and turning it on enables for strafing.

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I hate the original sky archwing and the change was more than welcome. I was so happy I yelled yes out loud when I read the change. Now it's been reverted... Why? Because some people couldn't go fast(er) and use barrel roll? What give?

At least wait for a week to see if there is truly a overwhelming amount of people who wanted the change reverted.

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Yes please make experimental flight skywing a toggle! I can't express how nice it was for the 2 days it lasted. For once I could hop onto Skywing and just have fun, without feeling nauseous or having to carefully manage it every time I play. I don't want to revoke people's fun, but I don't think it's fair to expect me - and others like me - to spend our playtime either getting sick or wasting it by travelling slower. Having a toggle would basically solve this problem.

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7 hours ago, ZedrinBot said:

This removed the ability to do the (incredibly slow) barrel rolls, slightly slowed down archwing, but it added in the ability to strafe, like you can in space with experimental controls.

The boost only increased your speed for a second or so, and tapered down to sprint speed.

Now there have been so many archwing itterations I can't honestly tell which does what when not boosting, but can't you just sprint instead of boost to get the same effect as the .4-.6 archwing?

Or is it preserved momentum without wasd input you're missing?

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The pseudo-simulation style always baffled me to no end. It's so much worse on a control pad, too.

In the now-reintroduced version, the only buttons I hit was shift(for sprint), hold space to boost, and waggle the mouse wherever I wanted to go. The flipping around and barrel rolls honestly annoyed me to no end.

It was nice having my dream controls for 2 days.

Can't we have both? I admit the broken boost was annoying but the revised controls were probably one of my favorite updates to date.

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1 hour ago, trndr said:

The boost only increased your speed for a second or so, and tapered down to sprint speed.

Now there have been so many archwing itterations I can't honestly tell which does what when not boosting, but can't you just sprint instead of boost to get the same effect as the .4-.6 archwing?

Or is it preserved momentum without wasd input you're missing?

I'm confused what you're asking. What do you mean sprint instead of boost? afaik those are the same thing: hold shift. (edit: shift + space, clarified below)

In the current build (as well as pre-0.4), boosting while holding A or D will cause your archwing to just roll. Your archwing will ALWAYS move in the direction your camera is pointing, regardless of what WASD inputs you press.

In 0.4 to 0.6, briefly, while boosting, if you pressed A or D, or even S, you would instead just start moving that direction. This could help control your momentum but the bigger effect was it unlocked your camera from WASD. Holding W while aiming one way would make you move that direction, but you also could hold S and move AWAY from it at full speed and shoot behind you, or A or D and fly to the sides at full speed while tracking it with your camera still.

You can get this in space archwing by enabling experimental controls.

Edit: Oh right, boost is shift + space, while sprint is just shift. Everything here still applies, just take that into consideration. (I forget that I pretty much always have shift pressed in archwing.)

Edited by ZedrinBot
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31 minutes ago, ZedrinBot said:

I'm confused what you're asking. What do you mean sprint instead of boost? afaik those are the same thing: hold shift.

Boost is shift+space, sprint is shift.

Or at least it was, and I only get the woosh with shift+space.

Which might explain why we have different reasons for liking the different versions.

Though it seems the best of both worlds would be a combination of both flight modes, boost for current boost, and everything else .4-.6 mode.

There is no way I could track anything inside spawn radius, while boosting, with my hyperion thruster itzal, and still go in the previously planed direction, and even if I had the finger gymnastics to tap the right strafe/forward/back combination to keep the same non 22.5 degree movement direction, it would seem a bit strange to fly backward at that speed.

Edited by trndr
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1 minute ago, trndr said:

Boost is shift+space, sprint is shift.

Or at least it was, and I only get the woosh with shift+space.

Which might explain why we have different reasons for liking the different versions.

There is no way I could track anything inside spawn radius, while boosting, with my hyperion thruster itzal, and still go in the previously planed direction, and even if I had the finger gymnastics to tap the right strafe/forward/back combination to keep the same non 22.5 degree movement direction, it would seem a bit strange to fly backward at that speed.

Ah right, forgot that boosting also involves space. I just kinda subconsciously press that no matter what.

To revise: everything I said above applies when boosting with shift + space.

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27 minutes ago, ZedrinBot said:

Ah right, forgot that boosting also involves space. I just kinda subconsciously press that no matter what.

To revise: everything I said above applies when boosting with shift + space.

So to reiterate, since boost turned to sprint after a second or so in .4-.6, does pure sprint give the controls you want, and if they don't would .4-.6 sprint and .0-.4&.6+ boost be a resonable combination?

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5 minutes ago, trndr said:

So to reiterate, since boost turned to sprint after a second or so in .4-.6, does pure sprint give the controls you want, and if they don't would .4-.6 sprint and .0-.4&.6+ boost be a resonable combination?

Sprinting and boosting would do slightly different things during that time.

Sprinting, as it does now as well, would make it so you actually strafe and keep facing the same direction. It was a slow lateral movement.

Boosting would make you actually fly in the direction you're pointing with WASD, boosting at full speed, but your camera would stay the same direction. (If you were to ignore the character model and only look at the camera and where it was moving, it would still be a strafe technically. Momentum was handled slightly differently however.)

Edited by ZedrinBot
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6 minutes ago, ZedrinBot said:

Sprinting and boosting would do slightly different things during that time.

Sprinting, as it does now as well, would make it so you actually strafe and keep facing the same direction. It was a slow lateral movement.

Boosting would make you actually fly in the direction you're pointing with WASD, boosting at full speed, but your camera would stay the same direction. (If you were to ignore the character model and only look at the camera and where it was moving, it would still be a strafe technically. Momentum was handled slightly differently however.)

You seem to be missing my point, boost didn't get you to full speed, it wasn't even close to full speed, it was sprint speed.

 

WASD while not sprinting keeps camera and movement seperate as it, and doing the same with sprint would be the same as boost was in .4-.6, except you would have no woosh sound.

 

While I don't remember excactly how no direction input, but aim input momentum worked in .4-.6, though I would prefered if it kept the momentum, with an air resistance reduction.

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Revert the Revert now. The reason everyone hates archwing is the controls.W should move forward. A should strafe left. S should move backwards. D should strafe right. ALWAYS. PERIOD. Just fix the boost speed... At the very least GIVE US THE OPTION! Personally... I would rather fly slow and have usable control over my archwing (especially because I use toggle sprint). Or disable TOGGLE sprint for archwing. Or make toggle sprint archwing a separate option. Whatever you do... just give me control of my archwing back.

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I too enjoyed it when they changed it briefly. I am one of the people that play normal archwing missions, and it gave me consistency with that. I find those controls to be far easier to work with. I've hated how it was in PoE since day one, and it's back to being just as bad in Orb Vallis now. We already have a setting for this in normal archwing missions, so they should just make that setting work in landscape missions too.

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People literally just want barrel roll because it makes them feel more like a jet or something - I don't know. It's not actually useful. My only problem with when they changed it to match the space controls was that in order to boost to the side you first had to boost forward and THEN travel to the side in order to maintain that speed. I agree that this change was fine because it meant that I could shoot to the side while flying by a group of enemies. Shooting enemies on the ground with the roll keys active is an extremely limited opportunity when you can only fly in the direction your camera is facing, which is what we have now. I think DE should work out the bugs in that control scheme and add an option to switch.

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I'm good with the revert. Slow sluggish and boring archwing was quite an annoyance.

What needs fixing, however, is that non-experimental flight mode people getting, well, the experimental flight model. That should not be happening.
Having separate roll controls for experimental would also be very welcome. An option for full 6 degrees of freedom both on open worlds and in space could be quite fun, too.

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Seriously one of the most fun flight games I've ever played is Strike Vector Ex...It's like perfect for Archwing...Barrel rolls, fast pop and lock combat, and intuitive flight controls easily picked up on both keyboards and controllers...I really think De should hire RAGEQUIT who are small dev team out of France (I believe) to work on Archwing...It's unfortunate that they just focused on PVP and had a poor story to back this game...it's one of those 2014 games that just screamed of being a good WARFRAME model...Right now DreadNought is driving me crazy because it's like Strike Vector and it's PVP only...when clearly it would be out of the park if they had chosen to follow DE's example....

 

Edited by (PS4)FriendSharkey
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12 hours ago, DracoRiff said:

We need a toggle. Experimental flight is a one-way ticket to puke city. Guess normal flight was fun while it lasted, for the entirety of 2 days..

No, no half-butt solutions, just have DE put the same amount of time and effort into Sky-Archwing movement as they did with K-Drives. Give us something good, not something we tolerate.

 

5 minutes ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

-snip-

That... that looks like a really good place for DE to get some inspiration. Maybe a bit too much 6dof for Sky-Archwing, but for Space-Archwing that looks amazing.

Edited by DrBorris
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9 hours ago, trndr said:

You seem to be missing my point, boost didn't get you to full speed, it wasn't even close to full speed, it was sprint speed.

 

WASD while not sprinting keeps camera and movement seperate as it, and doing the same with sprint would be the same as boost was in .4-.6, except you would have no woosh sound.

 

While I don't remember excactly how no direction input, but aim input momentum worked in .4-.6, though I would prefered if it kept the momentum, with an air resistance reduction.

I think then you're missing the point of this thread, then. This was on the controls, not the speed.

Obviously the speed cap was a problem, but realistically those two shouldn't constrain one another. We should be able to get the freedom of movement without capping speed.

Edited by ZedrinBot
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